Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Yes, In a heart beat

Probably

Not sure, maybe

No thanks

Don't watch Blu-ray, Don't care

[JimH]

We'd have to pay $20,000 a year just to join the Blu-ray club.  So we'd need to sell 1000 per year to make it worth the effort and expense.  Then anything that allowed ripping a Blu-ray would probably get us thrown out again.

From Wikipedia:

The role of contributors as described by the Blu-ray Disc Association Website:

"Contributors are active participants of the format creation and other key BDA activities. They can be elected to become a member of the Board of Directors. A contributor can attend general meetings and seminars, and can participate in Technical Expert Groups (TEGs), regional Promotion Team activities, and most of the Compliance Committee (CC) activities. Membership requires execution of Contribution Agreement and must be approved by the Board of Directors. Annual fee: $ 20,000"

More about the Blu-ray Disc Association:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

[Matt]

I'm not sure if you're provided ISO-like code to start with for video decoding, menu navigation, etc. when you license.  But I would estimate the creation of the necessary Bluray components, assuming ISO-like code, to be about six man-months of effort.

Then staying current on DRM, bit-streaming, etc. would require a person half-time.

These are rough guesses, but the cost of both is considerable.

[Lasse_Lus]

i voted "Don't watch Blu-ray"...but if JRiver benefits if this was included in the product..i will provide my $

[SamuriHL]

It's worse than you think.  Not only do you have to stay current on that stuff, the requirement of PAP and all that other nonsense is considerably costly.  Look at PDVD and TMT.  Both are great players, but, they're hindered by the fact that their devs spend more time dealing with protection code than ACTUAL playback code. Add to that the fact that blu-ray discs are often mastered INCREDIBLY poorly, and it's a mess.  What I mean by that last one is those "player updates" you see a lot...those often are workarounds for broken functionality on specific discs.  If you want to spend all your time dealing with DRM and playback issues, then adding BD support natively is a good idea.  If you'd rather let someone else do it, I'd recommend being able to work with the 10' UI plugins of the 3 major players.  I don't think this will bring you anything but a major headache and won't benefit you or the users.  This is just my opinion.

[Magic_Randy]

I'd pay.

[swinster]

Copy and pasted my comments from another thread regarding bitstreaming (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=58682.msg398909#msg398909), but I think they are relevant here.

Simply put from a 'user' perspective i would like to see the following:

• MC15 to support playback of BluRay discs with no issues and no additional software (unless this is somehow incorporated into a MC 'HD Video' version). This would need to include the playback of full HD audio either digitally bitstreamed or via analogue
• MC15 to support playback of MKV container for HD video including playback of any audio track in all their glory
  

I need for my wife to be able to buy a BluRay disc in the supermarket, bring it home, switch on the equipment (which is about as technical as she gets), put the disc in the HTPC and for MC to play the disc, including ALL menus and features.

In addition, she should be able to look up media in the MC library and play with no issue whatsoever.

I do not expect her to rip the BluRay to MKV, nor do I expect MC to be able to offer tools to do this (although as it does allow for CD ripping and tagging, this might be nice in the future). I want MC as my Media Centre, so I'm glad it has an apt name, but its' no good if it can't play my media - especially original media - with no hassle, FULL STOP.

As said, I don't think any additional software should be required in order for MC to be able to do this, however, I don't see that there couldn't be a separate MC version, say MC HD, that would incorporate any such software into its install, whether this be a white label version of something which JR strike a deal with.

[gappie]

i also voted.. dont watch
would be interesting to see how much the prize would go up when it would be just part of the program.

what is that?
that is media center from j river
can it play blu ray
sure.

most people including me use only a small percentage of mc's power
luckely everybody uses a different part

 
gab

[JimH]

i voted "Don't watch Blu-ray"...but if JRiver benefits if this was included in the product..i will provide my $

Thanks.  That's very kind of you.

[nwboater]

Blue Ray will happen in our future. At that time it would be very beneficial to have MC do everything needed for it. We keep hoping , and planning for the day, that MC can handle all of our media needs.

I think due to its high entry cost for you that it's entirely fair to have it as an option so those of us that want to use it will be the ones paying for it.

Good luck.

Rod

[bunglemebaby]

Personally, I'd rather see MC development focus more on video streaming services (Netflix, Hulu, etc) and any other forward thinking video delivery formats. The red tape and expenses surrounding Blu-Ray almost seems like a joke. I do understand why people want MC to support it, but I see the format going away pretty quickly...
Are there still no easy options for licensing other decoders to use within MC, or allowing those who have purchased licenses for other BR player software to utilize those decoders within MC? That seems like the best solution to me, but then I don't know what's involved with that at this point either.
-JB

[swinster]

Whilst I think streaming videos is the future, my personal opinion is that we are years away form this happening in a quality that come close to standard definition TV broadcast, left alone HD, high quality broadcasts with full soundtrack. The bandwidth required for this just isn't available and I reckon we are looking at the later part of this decade before it become an affordable and reliable service the average person will enjoy.

In the mean time, the only high quality film material people have to go on is BluRay  or Off Air Broadcasts.

[fitbrit]

Several points:

1) BluRay IS here to stay. We are nowhere near universal HD streaming capability. The studios will continue to make BluRay discs for some time to come. People in their middle ages now, or older are used to popping in a disc and playing.

2) I'd pay for the BluRay version on MC15, BUT...

3) I think it'd a borderline project in terms of return. I'd rather see a Mac version if we're gonna gamble. I'd pay for that too.

4) The idea of licensing/piggybacking with PDVD, TMT or WinDVD seems most palatable to me.

[benn600]

3) I think it'd a borderline project in terms of return. I'd rather see a Mac version if we're gonna gamble. I'd pay for that too.

Maybe a Mac version that plays Blu-Ray?

[wo0zy]

FWIW I voted yes but I'd be happy with the ability to define ISO's as video rather than data (to improve metadata handling) and the ability to cleanly launch TMT for playback and then cleanly return to MC afterwards. Cheaper and easier for you guys and on a par with other front end solutions.

Happy to clarify what I mean about metadata of that isn't self explanatory.

BTW I've only been trailing MC so far and while I couldn't currently replace my Windows MC/My Movies setup with it (mainly due to the fact that my family can work it with little to no help from me and DVB-S support:) ) I will be purchasing just so I can continue to experiment with features as they come onboard and I hope one day I'll be able to.

Love the music and media server stuff!! You guys are at the top of your game.

All the best

Wo0zy

[jmone]

I voted Yes (not surprise) but of all the options I'd suggest in order of doability:
1) Use a Plug-in from TMT or PDVD etc:  It already works with MS MC so it should be relativity quick, easy, and as a plug in only those that would use it would pay
2) Blu-ray "lite": Code MC to support the recognition of Bly-ray discs, and the parsing of the Playlist File on them for correct playback of the M2TS content using direct show filters.  Middle ground, should not be toooo hard to do (other are doing it now).  This would only work for Non-protected Discs (eg users would need a AnyDVD HD type product).  You would not have any menus etc but it would play the default main movie.  Also no available filter for DTS-HD is limiting with this solution.  This will still be a pain for all but an enthusiast to setup.
3) Dev a Full Blown Blu-ray SW Player:  Don't......$ $ $ $ and restrictions on JR - $20K is just not going to get you there.

Thanks
Nathan

[Ekpen]

I will recommend a plug-in, to use with PDVD from Cyberlink, or Nvidia. The interface is already there.
If this is not too much to ask for, another plug in to use a database like DVD profiler, if no databse feature in PDVD.
Ekpen.

[JustinChase]

I voted no.  

It's not that I don't want Blu-Ray support; it would be nice, but for the time, energy and money it would take to make it happen in MC, I think everything else might suffer for a while, and I'd rather give you $50 for true networkable TV usage and separation of the user interface from the server, as discussed in other recent threads.

I could pay $50 and purchase MakeMKV to rip my media and play the mkv's in Media Center, or purchase one of the stand alone players.

i'd rather see MC either link to one of the other players as discussed and/or improve mkv support/ability.

6 man-months and the extra staff could improve a lot on things in Media Center I would think, like maybe work on improving the user interface, allowing wives and parents to be able to use Media Center out of the box, without needing a resident geek (me) to make it all work.

Just my $.02

[rick.ca]

i'd rather see MC either link to one of the other players as discussed and/or improve mkv support/ability.

This strikes me as the most sensible approach. I haven't got around to trying Blu-ray. My system came with PDVD (and I assume most BD drives must include something for viewing BD's). So I've assumed that when I get around to renting one, it's going to play automatically in PDVD. Since it's a rental, that's all I need—I don't see any advantages to playing it in MC. Given my system for maintaining video meta data (PVD/PvdImport), I'll still have that even though I don't own the disk. If I were to buy a BD, I think I'd want to rip it to MKV and include that in my library. Unless I misunderstood Matt's recent post, that seems to be a good solution.

Now that I've thought about it, my suggestion would be to add/improve third party BD player and MKV support. That way, JRiver doesn't have to waste resources trying to compete with the single-purpose players. And if it's not possible for "MKV support" to include all the features that might be on a BD, there would still be the option of playing the disk. I have no idea what features might not be supportable, but I might want to do this: View the BD and all it's extra features when purchased. Then rip just the movie and preferred audio stream to MKV for subsequent viewing.

[dbalkunjr]

I had to vote no as well.  I already use DVDFAB and can just rip my bluray titles using this and play directly in MC.  I am more interested in seeing the team spend their time polishing the newer network capabilities, webremote, zones and theater view advancements.   Others have already spoken as to why they voted no and my opinion is that I agree with all those comments as well.  Too much work for what is probably not a big reward.  Now I would take advantage and even pay a sum less than $50 to be able to work/improve the integration with one of the third party apps.

[MrC]

Not at $50, and not at the expense of other things which I'd like to see have higher priorities.

[Magic_Randy]

I voted yes before, I'll pay if something is offered.

But all I really want is Blu-Ray playback. How this is achieved does not matter much to me.

I purchased my PC with a Blu-Ray DVD. It came with an OEM version of Cyberlink PowerDVD. This is what I currently use for Blu-Ray playback. I would upgrade to a full version of PowerDVD, or purchase another software package, if that was the engine that MC used for playback. 

Also, even if MC supports Blu-Ray playback without any other software, it should not rip and convert.  I myself use DVDFab for this operation.

[newsposter]

Could MC handle the complex BR playback codec as a plugin or would it have to be integrated as an internal component?

Is that 1k extra licenses a per-year thing or???

[Robert Joe]

I voted no because I only use JRiver for audio (FLAC playback). I believe we are moving toward PC's becoming servers with thin clients in other rooms of the house. So I would like to see JRiver be a content streamer. Pushing content to devices such as Squeezebox Touch (audio) and Dune (Blueray and Audio). That ability would get you a lot of new users.

[jacky]

only if it supports iso and folder playback

[rpalmer68]

I voted yes as well, but agree with others on the priority of this.

I'd rather see a TMT plugin and then the  time spent on fixing current issues/bugs and improvements to Theater View and Library Server over native Blu-Ray support.

Richard

[leezer3]

I'd probably be willing to pay, but with the caveat that it came with a discount on the main program, when licencing from a blank slate.
Something like $50 for plain MC or $75 for a new MC licence with Blu-Ray.

-Leezer-

[gworrel]

I received PDVD with a blu-ray drive and it worked for a while but then suddenly stopped after a mandatory update. I spent weeks trying things from their tech support including free retail versions but I could not get it to work on my PC. They didn't have a clue. I suppose it might have worked with a clean Windows install but I was not willing to try that.  I switched to TMT and it has worked without a hitch. I would like to see MC allow the use of an external player such as TMT.  No sense re-inventing the wheel.

[glynor]

You know what... I voted "Not Sure, Maybe" but I've changed my mind.  I have a BluRay player in my HTPC (and I have a burner and authoring software at work), but I've never actually played a BluRay disc in my machine at home.  I just don't rent or buy discs very often.  I would almost always prefer to use Amazon Unbox or iTunes to get them digitally (boo on spinning plastic discs).  And, even if I do get a plastic disc, I'd almost always just rip it to MKV before use and be done with it.

However... Since I have the drive, and I'm committed to MC, and all the other software out there for playing BluRay is AT LEAST $50 (usually more)... You can count me as a yes.  It would be nice to be able to use that hardware on the OUTSIDE chance that my mom or brother-in-law shows up at my house and wants to watch the BluRay movie they rented or brought.  Plus, I'll eventually have kids here, and it'll be nice to be able to appease them with a quick run to the RedBox and not have to worry about ripping it and whatnot.

With all of that in mind, in the end, I'm probably going to end up buying a software BluRay player.  And I'd certainly rather give my $50 to you guys, and I'd ESPECIALLY rather have it integrated into MC.  So, yes.  I'd pay up.  So switch one of those "Not sure" votes up to a "Yes, in a heartbeat" votes (in your mind, unless you can actually edit the results).

[Vocalpoint]

I voted no - since there are a plethora of other options available...anyone serious about using MC in a true theater environment and wanting  the ultimate in convenience would most likely be converting their BD discs already via MakeMKV or similar.

Conversely - anyone serious about buying BD and viewing them in the home - already has a decent hardware player - like me.

As long as there continue to be solid options out there to make an MKV out of any BD - I fail to see any good reason whatsoever to bake this into MC. Plus the upkeep and constant possible cost overhead (aka the $20,000 to join the club) sounds like one long price increase to the cost of our favorite media software. Let the guys like MakeMKV or DVDFab worry about BD encryption issues etc...

Finally - to up the cost of MC to 50 bucks or more could easily exceed that magic line for a lot of people.

Cheers!

VP

[glynor]

Finally - 50 bucks or more to buy MC in the future could easily exceed that magic line for a lot of people.

I interpreted this question as: $50 for MC, and an OPTIONAL additional $50 if you want the BluRay playback feature enabled.  If this isn't the case, I would vote "No" enthusiastically.  I have a few MC licenses that I deal with, and I'd only really be interested in the BluRay option on one or two of them.

[Vocalpoint]

I interpreted this question as: $50 for MC, and an OPTIONAL additional $50 if you want the BluRay playback feature enabled.  

If that's the case - I need a much bigger NO poll option - like a bolded No or a No with 8 more "o" added to the end and an exclamation point...AKA:

Noooooooo!

Cheers,

VP

[glynor]

If that's the case - I need a much bigger NO poll option - like a bolded No or a No with 8 more "o" added to the end and an exclamation point...AKA:

Noooooooo!

I don't understand... Why would that be a bad thing?  You could buy it if you wanted it, and if you didn't you wouldn't have to.  I'm confused.

FYI: The cost for a new copy of MC is already $49.98.  That part of my comment is nothing new.

[Vocalpoint]

I don't understand... Why would that be a bad thing?  You could buy it if you wanted it, and if you didn't you wouldn't have to.  I'm confused.

Sorry for the confusion. My bad. Now that I read it again...you are right. $50 as an option.

I guess my only concern - adding this - at what expense to the development and enhancements that are a much higher priority? Considering the media world is rapidly moving to an almost disc-less future...and MC is hands down the king of "file based" media players - ever...why spend the time, talent and resource to join this party now?

FYI: The cost for a new copy of MC is already $49.98.  That part of my comment is nothing new.

That I wasn't aware of. I guess as an "auto-upgrader" - I don't spend anytime checking out the "rack rate" as  new user.

[swinster]

I guess my only concern - adding this - at what expense to the development and enhancements that are a much higher priority? Considering the media world is rapidly moving to an almost disc-less future...and MC is hands down the king of "file based" media players - ever...why spend the time, talent and resource to join this party now?

I still think we're a mile (10 years) away from true HD streaming in the quality you can get from a BluRay. Until then, I would like to option of being able to view a BluRay as I would view a DVD.  I don't think that closing MC theatre view down, switching to a mouse/keyboard, starting a different player, watching the moving then switching it all back again is a very friendly approach.

I personally would like a solution whereby I can watch a BluRay, rip it and watch the file from one interface, but more importantly, I would like me misses to be able to select and play something whether is be a disk or file. If she goes and buys a BluRay, she should be able to play it in a simple, easy to use fashion.

I'm not opposed to MC integrating with other software, but I think the setup should be seamless. If MC is able to play BluRay's out of the box (or second box) this should happen naturally, if it relies on other software, then maybe JR could strick a deal with that software maker to get an OEM version. If MC has an option to legally play BluRay, it is not going to be able to rip (shame), however, I don't think MC will ever be set up to to rip BluRay - this will always be the chore of the resident geek.

A lot of the users on these forums are going to be technically minded, probably capable of ripping BluRay to MKV and playing them from files, but we are not the masses and other, less technically minded souls that I fear will probably never read this, need to be accounted for.

I think the role of MC should be to make the playing of your media in whatever format it is in, as simple as possible. It maybe that a resident geek in needed to set the thing up (especially if a server is utilised), but the user simply wants switch on the system, pick up the remote and use the system. We still regularly view DVD's and BluRay's without ripping them first, and I think this will continue for may years yet to come.

I voted - Yes

[Vocalpoint]

But more importantly, I would like me misses to be able to select and play something whether is be a disk or file. If she goes and buys a BluRay, she should be able to play it in a simple, easy to use fashion.

I couldn't agree more. That's why we have the Oppo BDP-83 at the ready.

Unfortunately - there is no possible way - even with a massive overhaul to an already excellent MC interface that my wife could be bothered with dealing with MC and any kind of disc or file based playback. She does know how to open the tray on the BD player...drop in the disc and hit the big Play button. Done.

[swinster]

She does know how to open the tray on the BD player...drop in the disc and hit the big Play button. Done.

Mine doesn't know you to change to a different AV channel, although for the time being I have a Hermany remote that kinda does this for her (if she can remember which button to press!).

That's why I want MC to be my one point of contact. I want one interface that I can replicate in multiple rooms so that everything works in the same way. All-right, MC is still along way away from this in many areas (especially in the TV viewing/serving), but BluRay playback will be a step in the right direction.

[Vocalpoint]

Mine doesn't know you to change to a different AV channel, although for the time being I have a Hermany remote that kinda does this for her (if she can remember which button to press!).

I hear ya! I have been very patient with my sig-other..and tried my hardest to get her working with MC. We have overcome the barrier for music...but for movies...with the WDTV Live and now the Oppo in the rack - it's no contest. Not only does she get instant movie time - she runs these two like they were built for her. Can't argue with that design. So hardware wins this round. Especially the WDTV - the interface is about as good as it can get. My 6 year old has it down cold as well...

[glynor]

Ha!  I too have wife acceptance issues, but mine are just the opposite.  A hardware player would be absolutely out of the question (I actually have two Oppo 83's at my disposal, so actually getting one wouldn't be an issue).

My living room TV always stays on the HTPC HDMI input.  The "real" remote control to the TV is in a box in the basement.  My HTPC is operated via a Snapstream Firefly (programmed via Girder5) and a wireless mouse (and a Microsoft Arc Keyboard, but that gets stowed away most of the time).  She knows how to use a Windows computer, and she can look stuff up on the web, and use MC and BeyondTV.  More than one remote isn't an option.  Separate hardware devices aren't an option for me if it is something she needs to use.  Software is the only option.

But really... Training her to use a different media player other than MC would be a challenge.  I've been using MC at home for quite a long time (longer than I've owned this house, in fact), so she's pretty competent with it, and the new Theater View only makes that better.  However, if I did go with a 3rd Party BluRay player application, I'd have to start fresh training her.  She's not incompetent by any means, but I'd absolutely get some resistance.

That's a big part of why I decided to change my tune towards yes.

[bunglemebaby]

Semi off-topic here, but anyway...

I still think we're a mile (10 years) away from true HD streaming in the quality you can get from a BluRay.

Are the HD on demand movies that I can stream via my cable box inferior to BluRay discs? (Serious question here, I've never actually viewed a BD.) By what stretch are they inferior?  

From the other end, how much of the general population cares enough about the quality of the material they view to choose the physical disc over a convenient digital only medium. The success of MP3s over CDs makes me guess not a ton. Certainly there is the segment of people who care very much about the quality of their video delivery (and this segment is a prime target for MC), but I wonder how big and/or influential this segment is. It certainly doesn't consist of everybody with a big HDTV.

So, I guess my thought is that whether or not you're right about 10 years for the quality, I think primary form for video delivery will have moved from disc to digital delivery much sooner than 10 years.

-JB

[DiiPii]

I find it interesting how the chips are falling here given the vocal requests for BlueRay that I've seen posted over the last year or so.  What's even more suprising, is that I thought I wanted it supported too....but when I think about it, I've never actually rented/owned/played a BlueRay disc.....now if it would rip to MKV, I'd buy it just for the facility. Otherwise, I'm not about to start collecting plastic, I stopped that a long time ago, so if all it will do is play, I would suggest your resources would be better spent elsewhere.

[SamuriHL]

Semi off-topic here, but anyway...Are the HD on demand movies that I can stream via my cable box inferior to BluRay discs? (Serious question here, I've never actually viewed a BD.) By what stretch are they inferior?  

It's not even close.  BD is above all else right now.  Let's say netflix will add 1080p streaming later this year, which is theoretically possible.  You're still stuck with lower bitrates BY FAR than a BD and you won't get HD audio.  Think about it another way...your average streaming video, even on cable on demand or whatever, is maybe 6 or 7 gigs per movie.  Cram in some low quality AC3 and the rest is typically a 720p or maybe 1080i video stream.  Now compare that with BD which is typically 25-50 gigs depending on the movie.  (Avatar really went all out on that one).  Anyway, BD obliterates all streaming that I've ever seen or heard about.  10 years is a good estimate given how slow the US is upgrading their internet speeds.  Even with my fiber optic and cable connections, I still couldn't stream a BD quality video in realtime.

[JustinChase]

I haven't really stayed on top of it, (nor was I ever on top of it) but last I checked MKV's don't currently do chapters and menu's, but I think that the format does allow for it.  I could certainly be mistaken about that and/or it may have changed.

if that is correct, maybe this is an opportunity for MC to stand out.  Getting chapters and menu's and subtitles working well inside MC would be wonderful.  There's only a few options for ripping to MKV's so there can't be too much variety in what would be presented to Media Center.  Taking the known input, into a perhaps semi-custom or known working splitter to known/suggested filters and allowing the full experience of the Blu-Ray Disc from the HTPC, pre or easily configured lossless audio and video that just works would "sell-out on release date" I think.

Is there any legal downside to compiling a J River Media Center codec pack?  There must be some combination of filters and codecs that will work with most of the common formats on most current systems that could be bundled up as a codec pack.  However, with MC as the intended client.  Custom tweaked filters with known input and output chains in mind, specifically designed to work in MC.  I have no idea how hard this would be to implement, but seeing the amazing things happen over the last decade makes me think you can do it.  It seems that it might actually be harder to make all of the options available and getting all that to connect and work well with all the different possible combinations than it would be to just "fix" a system that almost works and just concentrate in keeping that working and updated and improved.

I'm assuming you couldn't just implement them with the MC install to make sure everything installs perfectly, but that would be even better.

Doing that well, and maybe working out something with one or all of the ripping developers to suggest their product if they can present a file with some things the way you need them for this to all work well.  Everyone wins.

Just thinking out loud

[SamuriHL]

Just an FYI, MKV does chapter support just fine now with the latest Haali.  Menus are still not supported, however, and that's a very big ball of yarn to untangle.  Most BD menus are done in BD-J, so, it's not a simple thing of "ripping the menu" and "adding it to an MKV".  At the present time of this writing, you won't find any open source, non-commercial player that supports BD menus.  Yes, I know that support is being worked on by at least 2 groups.  However, it's going to be a long, involved process. 

Getting back to the original poll, I still voice my opinion of working with existing players and trying to integrate with them as much as possible.  Maybe even providing auto-mounting of ISO's that then play using a third party plugin such as TMT or PDVD's MC plugin.  It would be much lighter code and would make them do all the grunt work.  But you could offer seamless integration with MC15 which would in fact rock.

[rick.ca]

If integrated Blu-ray were the only option for playing BD, I'd support it. But it's not. It seems I have the option of ripping them to MKV which MC can already play. Or I can use the software I already have to play the disc directly. Even with great confidence in the abilities of JRiver, I have to wonder if they can built a better player than the existing ones, and sustain that edge. Otherwise, the value of integration (not to mention the additional $50 cost) is questionable. I think many would be very unhappy if an integrated player that was perceived as inferior to alternatives was the only form of integration available. So it's difficult to imagine this being done and the easier alternative not still being necessary to implement.

But I'm not voting "no"—I'm voting "yes" to better integration with the alternatives. I'm not sure what that entails, but surely it would be a lot easier and have a greater pay-off than developing the integrated solution. I suppose it might include improving how MKV's are handled—so those containing BD rips can mimic as much as possible the features of the disc. For playing BD's, an external player can be called without otherwise disrupting the Theatre View experience. That means using the the players controls, but those should be 10-foot friendly, including commands that can be programmed to a remote.

I'm not sure—because I don't use DVD's either—but I suspect either approach requires a (better?) way for recording, maintaining and using external disks in the library. It should be possible to select an external BD item in the library and see all it's meta data. Playing it should result in a prompt to load it (if it's not found in the drive) before calling the external player. On return, Last Played should be updated—as if it had been played by MC.

...However, if I did go with a 3rd Party BluRay player application, I'd have to start fresh training her...

So if this sort of third party player support existed, and you programmed your Firefly so the keys she's used to do the equivalent things in the player, how much "training" would be required? She might not even see the player interface. I suppose that depends on how much she relies on the MC OSD versus the equivalent remote keys. For the more common things—volume, mute, pause, stop, etc., she's probably more familiar with the remote anyway.

[Strale]

If MC is audiophile player then I don't understand this question. Of course that it MUST have blu-ray support. I have many blu-ray concerts that I can't play via my favourite MC player and I have to use some other software for blu-ray playback. Don't ask any more, make it! Blu-ray is expanding more and more! Why don't you make special version of MC that will supports it and keep this old version that is not supporting it so everybody can choose. I doubt that you will be in minus, this is the best player ever!

[bunglemebaby]

If MC is audiophile player then I don't understand this question. Of course that it MUST have blu-ray support.

Of course MC should have Blu-ray support. No one questions that. The difficulties of creating it, however contrived, are very real and very costly though, as noted by Jim and Matt at the top of this thread. The baseline concern is that implementing it won't bring in enough revenue (directly or indirectly) to cover the costs of implementing it. From users' perspectives there is a concern that implementing Blu-ray would slow or halt progress in other areas of MC. Due to the relatively small size of JRiver and the red tape surrounding the Blu-ray format it just can't be a black and white issue, unfortunately.

[SamuriHL]

Of course MC should have Blu-ray support. No one questions that. The difficulties of creating it, however contrived, are very real and very costly though, as noted by Jim and Matt at the top of this thread. The baseline concern is that implementing it won't bring in enough revenue (directly or indirectly) to cover the costs of implementing it. From users' perspectives there is a concern that implementing Blu-ray would slow or halt progress in other areas of MC. Due to the relatively small size of JRiver and the red tape surrounding the Blu-ray format it just can't be a black and white issue, unfortunately.

What I think is overlooked is the maintenance of it, even if they were to add full blu-ray support.  It's not small.  Ask ArcSoft and Cyberlink about that.    It will definitely take time away from developing other features.

[Strale]

bunglemebaby you are contradicting to yourself. You first said that no one questions blu-ray support and then you talk about difficulties to achieve that. So it really is question if it will be supported or not (because of that difficulties)! My answer to that question is YES, supports it no matter what-higher price or whatever! Yes I know difficulties, it will be nice to have blu-ray support, it should have blu-ray support BUT bla bla bla.......Only fools and horses: ''who does not risk that does not benefit'' - or something like that

[wo0zy]

That's "He who dares wins".

But other than total luck you may remember that Del Boy (like his brother) was a total plonker.

I'm sure the J River devs are brave but not plonkers. It has to come down to whether the investment is a good business choice and only they know the answer to that.

SamuriHL is (as usual) right on the money here IMHO.

Wo0zy

[syndromeofadown]

I would pay for bluray support.
Though I am completely happy with the amount of support that currently exists.

I backup my blurays then import the index.bdmv into my J River library. I then use J river play them with an external program, TMT.
This works great and I really like using TMT.

With that said, I suppose I would pay for a TMT plugin(I would not consider anything to do with powerdvd or windvd). The only difference it would make when compared to what I am doing now, is that I could use j river for the controls instead of TMT. This would be nice but it’s really not a big deal to me.

I have found that trying to play protected blurays is masochistic and AnyDVD is necessary just to play many discs. As an alternative to full bluray support maybe the ability to play ONLY unprotected discs is an option since AnyDVD is pretty much a requirement anyways. Is this possible with out joining the bluray club?

The best part of using J river is the ability to open files in your library with an external program, unlike other software that hijacks your computer. Thank you for your flexibility. To be a great company you can use apple as an inspiration for the ways in which you will never choose to be. DRM should not be encouraged and protected bluray support would be doing just that.