INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 20 for Windows => Topic started by: Goalline on February 18, 2015, 11:26:16 pm
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I am trying to achieve bit-perfect sound. In doing so I can get sound from 24 bit sources through HDMI to my Pioneer receiver, but no luck with 16 bit sources. I don't want to resample the source, because I then lose the bit-perfect rendering. Bitdepth is set at automatic, and the receiver shows up as a WASAPI device.
Thank you!
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Bitdepth doesn't have anything to do with resampling (which is, as the name suggests, changing the sample rate of the file, not the bit depth). Bitdepths can be increased in a "perfect and reversible" way, unlike resampling which is destructive by nature.
So... Your question is confusing.
Are you saying 16-bit audio files don't play at all? If so, then make sure Exclusive Access (http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Exclusive_Access) is enabled in your WASAPI setup. If you disable exclusive access, you must resample all audio files to match the default output format set by Windows. But, again, this is related to the sample rate of the files, not the bitdepth. There is a lot more detail in the Wiki article I linked above.
If you mean something else, then please explain more what is not working about your 16-bit files.
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Thanks for your patience, Glynor. I've been using MC for about 4 years now, but for all intents and purposes, I am still a newbie.
My goal is to keep MC in bit-perfect mode. I am trying not to resample the files, which I have done in the past, because it seems to prevent access to bit-perfect playback. Perhaps, that is another incorrect assumption on my part.
I have tried mucking around with Exclusive Access with no success. I am at work now. I will take a closer look at the link when I get home tonight. Thank you.
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While the terms may be confusing, "bit-perfect" playback generally refers to avoiding resampling or other processing, rather than anything to do with the bit-depth.
You can increase the bit-depth to anything that you like, without affecting the "bit perfectness".
Because all you're doing is literally just adding zeros on the end to pad out the bit-depth.
You should always output the highest bit-depth that your device supports, even if most of your source material is only 16-bit.
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That makes a great deal of sense. Thank you so much! This board rocks.
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No luck with the Exclusive Access setting in WASAPI. The playback device is set up for Exclusive Access; MC is set up to accept Exclusive Access. Still will not play 16 bit files. No problem playing 24 bit files.
In Direct sound both 16 bit and 24 bit files play perfectly, but not in WASAPI.
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No luck with the Exclusive Access setting in WASAPI. The playback device is set up for Exclusive Access; MC is set up to accept Exclusive Access. Still will not play 16 bit files. No problem playing 24 bit files.
Okay. I still wasn't sure you couldn't play the files at all.
What exact error message did MC give you?
Also, please describe the settings under:
Tools > Options > Audio > Audio Device
Tools > Options > Audio > Audio Device > Device Settings
Tools > Options > Audio > Settings
DSP > Output Format
Screenshots would probably be easiest. If you don't know how to make a screenshot, there are two good options.
1. MC can actually do it for you. Make the screen like you want it, and then hit the PrintScreen key on your keyboard. Then, in MC go the Action Window and choose Camera. From the drop down menu choose Copy from Clipboard and hit Acquire. MC will import your screenshot, which you can then attach to a post.
2. What I actually like is a little plugin called Lightscreen (http://lightscreen.com.ar/). It is open source, free, and runs perfectly. Download it and install it. After it installs you can run it. Under options you can choose where it will save your pictures (I just have mine go to the desktop), and a variety of other options. Click the button with the "bounding square" (resizable-looking square in the middle) and it will dim your screen slightly and let you drag a box on the screen overtop of what you want to screencapture. Then it saves that (and not the entire desktop) to your given directory.
It works great.
EDIT: For any future people who stumble in, this post inspired me to write up this quick guide in the wiki:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Screenshot
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I will get on it. Thanks!
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Here is the Tools > Options > Audio > Audio Device > Device Settings
(http://i.imgur.com/xZl8y8K.jpg)
Lightscreen is awesome, BTW.
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Great. If you can post the DSP one too, and most importantly a screenshot of the error itself, that would help.
But, before we go further, I see you're using an Intel onboard HDMI output. Since it is acting funny, and Intel's GPU drivers are... Let's just say they've proven challenging to Intel, I'd recommend you update your GPU drivers:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Troubleshooting_Drivers#Video_Cards_.28GPUs.29
Nothing else in that screenshot above looks out of place or suspicious.
Also, can you describe the files in question in more detail? Number of channels, sample rate, format, etc. Thanks.
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Lightscreen is awesome, BTW.
It really is.
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And DSP Output Format
(http://i.imgur.com/Mop2yhL.jpg)
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I am receiving no error message. The spectrum analyzer acts like the music is playing, the clock shows the song is progressing, yet there is no sound. This happens with all 16 bit sources. FLAC, MP3, WAV, APE...
Thanks for the GPU driver upgrade recommendation.
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Oh, and these are all 2 channel 16 bit sources. For 24 bit sources both 2 channel and 5.1 FLAC sources work perfectly.
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I am receiving no error message. The spectrum analyzer acts like the music is playing, the clock shows the song is progressing, yet there is no sound. This happens with all 16 bit sources. FLAC, MP3, WAV, APE...
That really seems like a driver bug then. Try the GPU driver update and report back.
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Lastly... You didn't mention what format the 16-bit files were in (file format and stream type).
I ask because in certain formats (such as AC3) since you have bitstreaming enabled, then it will try to bitstream the files rather than decode them natively. So, in this case, it would be up to your AVR (or whatever your HDMI out is connected to) to decode the files properly.
It may not be able to decode these files, if that is the case.
Oops. You did say, I just misread (I thought it said it worked with all formats of 24-bit audio, but not what you said).
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Nothing in your settings looks amiss. You may want to consider:
1. Disabling bitstreaming. This will let MC itself decode the audio and send your receiver bit-perfect and well decoded PCM audio.
FYI: Decoding digital audio sources isn't the type of thing that impacts quality. It is an either "can do it correctly" or "cannot do it correctly" type of thing. However, I've found MC's decoders to be much more resilient than the decoders built into many different receivers I've tested. They're also probably faster (the AC3 decoders in your receiver or DAC are going to be cheap integrated circuits likely mass produced for cost and volume not "quality") since MC has all the power of a massive Intel CPU behind it.
2. Enabling the Output Format DSP. This can be easily configured (and really works this way by default) to pass-through "natively" everything your output device can possibly pass through (bit-perfectly).
But if configured properly, you can also save yourself the trouble of failed playback for "oddball" file formats. Say, for example, you have a stereo setup, and you usually only play stereo audio tracks. That's fine, but what if you do want to play, just for a bit, a 5.1 surround AC3 file for some reason? Normally playback would fail, but the Output Format DSP will automatically downmix these files (while leaving your stereo stuff alone).
Another example I've hit occasionally is oddball audio formats. Download some kind of voicemail attachment (that has a weird or crazy-low sample rate) or crazy high-resolution audio file and you might get an error instead of working playback. The ability to set resampling behavior for individual input sample rates is quite handy. So, you can set MC to leave everything alone, except those formats that your sound device can't handle anyway, and then resample only those file formats. It works very well.
Neither of these things will impact this particular issue, however, so let's solve that first.
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Enabling Output Format works. It is the way I have always handled things in the past, but I was hoping to achieve playback without resampling. BTW, upgrading the graphics card failed to solve the issue at hand.
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Post a screenshot of how you have the Output Format DSP when enabled that makes it work.
Also, the Output Format DSP doesn't necessarily resample everything. It only resamples (and downmixes) when it has to, and everything else can be set to pass through.
Lastly, can you open the Windows Sound Control panel (http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/File:Control_panel_sounds.jpg) and run the audio test with it set to 16-bit and the various sample rates? While you're there, a screenshot of the Supported Formats tab would help too.
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WASAPI has an option called "Event Style". Try it both ways.
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As 24 bit plays and 16 doesn't; what happens if you set bit depth to 24 instead of automatic?
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Both of those items were things I was going to suggest next. The fact that:
1. MC thinks it is playing (there is no error) but sound doesn't come out and
2. The Output Format DSP "fixes" it
Made me very curious about what is going on.
Definitely worth trying Jim's idea. I'd be surprised if Intel targeted the old API, but you never know with their drivers. I haven't used Intel onboard HDMI output. I know people here have though.
We can almost certainly fix it by setting the bit-depth output format directly, but I want to know why if you have to do this. Not playing 16-bit (very common) files but working with 24-bit files is very bizarre. So, I'd still like the screenshots and details if you can.
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Hi Guys, I was out of town. Let me try your suggestions out. Thanks!
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Output Format set up(works, but wish I didn't have to change the sample rate:
(http://i.imgur.com/XMmeVfD.jpg)
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As 24 bit plays and 16 doesn't; what happens if you set bit depth to 24 instead of automatic?
Introduces this error.
(http://i.imgur.com/2qyCeAE.jpg)
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Doesn't change anything whether I use the event style option or not. Yes, extremely bizarre that 16 bit files won't play. They do play on Windows Media if that will help.
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Are you sure you don't have Exclusive Mode disabled somehow? Because that is the exact behavior I'd expect if:
* Exclusive mode is disabled
* The Windows Default Format is set to 24-bit 48kHz in the Windows Sound Control Panel
This is explained in the section of the Exclusive Access article called Issues with Disabling Exclusive Access in WASAPI (http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Exclusive_Access#Issues_with_Disabling_Exclusive_Access_in_WASAPI). That exact error message is expected, and that exact set of Output Format DSP settings would likely "fix" it (depending on your default output settings in Windows).
One thing to check is the requirements. If you have either checkbox relating to Exclusive Access disabled for your sound device in the Windows control panel shown in the Requirements sectio (http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Exclusive_Access#Requirements)n, then I can see it acting bizarrely. Because MC would think it was using Exclusive Access, but Windows would be denying it the right to use exclusive access, and so the sound just wouldn't work for 16-bit 44.1kHz files, until you resample them to match the default format in Windows.
That's pretty much all I've got, aside from some kind of terminally broken Intel driver. But I know people use onboard Intel HDMI out here, so there'd be all sorts of complaints, so that doesn't make sense.
Also, just to explain:
They do play on Windows Media if that will help.
Windows Media Player does not use WASAPI, but uses the older DirectSound API, which automatically resamples all output when needed to match the default format. So the fact that it works there is largely irrelevant. You could do the same in MC by changing your Output Format to DirectSound or Wave Out. Don't do that, though.
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I am not sure if you have tried/checked this or not, but do you have your source as the default device in Windows audio? Since you are using an HDMI cable to your receiver, I assume you are using your GPU. Which GPU card manufacturer are you using? I know for a while now, nVIDIA has been adding High Definition Audio Drivers to their GPU drivers. Perhaps you can go into your Windows Control panel and try setting your GPU's HDMI output port to the default Playback Device if your card has Audio drivers (if nVIDIA then it most likely does):
In Windows:
Start->Control Panel->Sound
In the window that pops up, check to see if there is an option for your GPU's HDMI port and select it as the default playback device and check in JRiver that the same device you have set as the default playback device in Windows is selected in JRiver.
(http://www.h-townmadness.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=594)
I am not sure if this is the issue you are having or if you have tried/checked this, but I hope I can help in some way.
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Glynor, here's the screen shot showing exclusive access is enabled. Thank you so much for your help.:
(http://i.imgur.com/QYhw7VH.jpg)
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TheGame, I am using the receiver's DAC as my output device...I believe.
(http://i.imgur.com/fxnmF7i.jpg)
Also:
(http://i.imgur.com/o9LM924.jpg)
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Yeah it looks like you have your GPU's audio output selected correctly in Windows. I'm sorry I was hoping maybe I could help you find a solution. If I figure anything out, I will post.
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Thanks guys. Unfortunately, starting to think Glynor is right. GPU driver issues. :(
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Try changing the bit-depth from automatic to 24-bit padded in Media Center's config.
And set the device in Windows to the highest bit-depth and sample rate that it supports.
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Doesn't work. Time to build a C.A.P.S. unit perhaps?
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You definitely updated to the latest Intel drivers?
This just seems absolutely bizarre.
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I will have my son confirm it.
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Make a log zip file and post it here. Instructions:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Logging
I can check the driver version for you from that.
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Media Center
Install Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\J River\Media Center 20\
Interface Plugins: TiVo Server (not running)
JRMark: never run
Library: 5524 files, 792 KB in library, 32.0 MB in thumbnails
Resources: 82.4 MB memory, 352 handles
Version: 20.0.73.0 Registered
Memory & CPU
CPU features: MMX, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, AVX
Free Physical Memory: 4.1 GB
Total Memory: 7.9 GB
Operating System
Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit
Power
Playback (disable automatic sleep)
Computer
ACPI x64-based PC (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Disk drives
Generic- Multi-Card USB Device (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
ST2000DM001-9YN164 (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
WD My Book 1140 USB Device (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Display adapters
Intel(R) HD Graphics (driver 9.17.10.4101)
DVD/CD-ROM drives
TSSTcorp DVD+-RW SH-216AB (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Human Interface Devices
HID-compliant consumer control device (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
HID-compliant consumer control device (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
HID-compliant device (driver 6.1.7601.18199)
HID-compliant device (driver 6.1.7601.18199)
HID-compliant device (driver 6.1.7601.18199)
HID-compliant device (driver 6.1.7601.18199)
HID-compliant device (driver 6.1.7601.18199)
USB Input Device (driver 6.1.7601.18199)
USB Input Device (driver 6.1.7601.18199)
USB Input Device (driver 6.1.7601.18199)
USB Input Device (driver 6.1.7601.18199)
IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers
Intel(R) 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller (driver 11.0.0.1032)
Keyboards
HID Keyboard Device (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Mice and other pointing devices
HID-compliant mouse (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
HID-compliant mouse (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Monitors
Generic Non-PnP Monitor (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic PnP Monitor (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Network adapters
Dell Wireless 1506 802.11b/g/n (2.4GHz) (driver 9.2.0.484)
Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller #2 (driver 7.48.823.2011)
Processors
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2320 CPU @ 3.00GHz (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2320 CPU @ 3.00GHz (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2320 CPU @ 3.00GHz (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2320 CPU @ 3.00GHz (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Sound, video and game controllers
Conexant SmartAudio HD (driver 8.50.8.0)
Intel(R) Display Audio (driver 6.14.0.3097)
JRiver Media Center 20 (driver 20.0.73.0)
Storage volume shadow copies
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
Generic volume shadow copy (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
System devices
2nd Generation Intel(R) Core(TM) Processor Family DRAM Controller - 0100 (driver 9.2.0.1026)
ACPI Fan (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
ACPI Fan (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
ACPI Fan (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
ACPI Fan (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
ACPI Fan (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
ACPI Fixed Feature Button (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
ACPI Power Button (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
ACPI Thermal Zone (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
ACPI Thermal Zone (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Composite Bus Enumerator (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Direct memory access controller (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
File as Volume Driver (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
High Definition Audio Controller (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
High precision event timer (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Intel(R) 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port 1 - 1E10 (driver 9.3.0.1011)
Intel(R) 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port 2 - 1E12 (driver 9.3.0.1011)
Intel(R) 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port 6 - 1E1A (driver 9.3.0.1011)
Intel(R) 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family SMBus Host Controller - 1E22 (driver 9.3.0.1011)
Intel(R) 82801 PCI Bridge - 244E (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Intel(R) 82802 Firmware Hub Device (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Intel(R) B75 Express Chipset LPC Controller - 1E49 (driver 9.3.0.1011)
Intel(R) Management Engine Interface
Microsoft ACPI-Compliant System (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Microsoft System Management BIOS Driver (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Microsoft Virtual Drive Enumerator Driver (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Motherboard resources (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Motherboard resources (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Motherboard resources (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Motherboard resources (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Motherboard resources (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Numeric data processor (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
PCI bus (driver 1.0.4.220)
Plug and Play Software Device Enumerator (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Programmable interrupt controller (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
System board (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
System board (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
System CMOS/real time clock (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
System timer (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Terminal Server Keyboard Driver (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Terminal Server Mouse Driver (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
UMBus Enumerator (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
UMBus Enumerator (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
UMBus Root Bus Enumerator (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Volume Manager (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
Xeon E3-1200/2nd Generation Intel(R) Core(TM) Processor Family PCI Express Root Port - 0101 (driver 9.2.0.1026)
Universal Serial Bus controllers
Generic USB Hub (driver 6.1.7601.22526)
Generic USB Hub (driver 6.1.7601.22526)
Intel(R) 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller - 1E2D (driver 9.3.0.1011)
Intel(R) 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller - 1E26 (driver 9.3.0.1011)
Intel(R) USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller (driver 1.0.4.220)
Intel(R) USB 3.0 Root Hub (driver 1.0.4.220)
USB Composite Device (driver 6.1.7601.22526)
USB Composite Device (driver 6.1.7601.22526)
USB Mass Storage Device (driver 6.1.7601.17577)
USB Mass Storage Device (driver 6.1.7601.17577)
USB Root Hub (driver 6.1.7601.22526)
USB Root Hub (driver 6.1.7601.22526)
WD Drive Management devices
WD SES Device (driver 1.0.10.0)
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Interesting new discovery. It will play 16 bit 48,000 files, but still won't play 16bit 44.1K without changing the output.
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Interesting new discovery. It will play 16 bit 48,000 files, but still won't play 16bit 44.1K without changing the output.
That's not surprising at all. I'd assumed it would. This doesn't have anything to do with the bit depth, and is all about the sample rates.
If you change the default format in Windows to 44.1, I suspect it will reverse the situation and then:
* Play all 44.1kHz files correctly
* Fail to play all 48kHz files.
Exclusive Access seems to be broken, though enabled, on your system.
The driver versions listed for the GPU and Display Audio are the current versions for your CPU's onboard GPU. I'd recommend this:
1. Download the latest version of the Intel GPU drivers from here:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24696/Intel-HD-Graphics-Driver-for-Windows-7-8-8-1-64-bit
2. Uninstall your current installation using the through the Device Manager method, as is described here:
http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-034574.htm
Be sure to uninstall both the GPU driver and the Display Audio driver, and make sure you check the box to delete the software.
3. As a third step (after #2) remove the Intel GPU driver through the normal Windows Add/Remove Programs control panel too.
4. REBOOT. DO NOT SKIP THIS.
5. After rebooting, reinstall the Intel GPU driver you downloaded in step 1.
Try again. Make sure MC is set to use WASAPI Exclusive Access.
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Also, can you take a screenshot of the Supported Formats tab of your driver dialog page?
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Ooh. Before you try the uninstall/reinstall... I noticed something. It shouldn't be required here because you're not bitstreaming these particular file formats. However, you do have bitstreaming enabled, and I don't see a driver version listed for your Intel Management Engine Interface. Mine lists it like this:
Intel(R) Management Engine Interface (driver 8.1.0.1263)
Yours just says:
Intel(R) Management Engine Interface
No driver version listed. That's suspicious.
This is required for bitstreaming lots of formats on Intel hardware. I've read all sorts of posts on AVSForum and other places about problems with the Intel onboard Display Audio driver without having IMEI installed, and I know it is broken when you're bitstreaming. I wonder if your IMEI driver is not installed or borked?
If you find it in Device Manager, what driver version does it have? It should be under System Devices and called Intel(R) Management Engine Interface.
You might need to get this from your motherboard vendor. Search Google for: Intel Management Engine Interface 8.1.0.1263 and your motherboard vendor. Or visit your manufacturer's support site and see what they have.
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Oh yeah, and since you have it disabled anyway, uninstall the Conexant Smart Audio driver entirely. You can use the same method I described for removing the Intel driver.
You can also disable it in the BIOS of your computer, so it doesn't try to reinstall itself.
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Also, can you take a screenshot of the Supported Formats tab of your driver dialog page?
(http://i.imgur.com/W8r0k9Q.jpg)
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Ooh. Before you try the uninstall/reinstall... I noticed something. It shouldn't be required here because you're not bitstreaming these particular file formats. However, you do have bitstreaming enabled, and I don't see a driver version listed for your Intel Management Engine Interface. Mine lists it like this:
Intel(R) Management Engine Interface (driver 8.1.0.1263)
Yours just says:
No driver version listed. That's suspicious.
This is required for bitstreaming lots of formats on Intel hardware. I've read all sorts of posts on AVSForum and other places about problems with the Intel onboard Display Audio driver without having IMEI installed, and I know it is broken when you're bitstreaming. I wonder if your IMEI driver is not installed or borked?
If you find it in Device Manager, what driver version does it have? It should be under System Devices and called Intel(R) Management Engine Interface.
You might need to get this from your motherboard vendor. Search Google for: Intel Management Engine Interface 8.1.0.1263 and your motherboard vendor. Or visit your manufacturer's support site and see what they have.
Wish I had read this before I uninstalled the old GPU driver. My fault. Too eager to start. :)
Anyway, here is the IMEI driver info.
(http://i.imgur.com/xGs3r5d.jpg)
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And the updated driver.
(http://i.imgur.com/f2jA3lZ.jpg)
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Wish I had read this before I uninstalled the old GPU driver. My fault. Too eager to start. :)
No biggie. It won't hurt, and could fix it. That's basically Intel's recommended troubleshooting I found in their support pages for HDMI Display Audio. It does look like (from trolling forum postings) that the Intel HDMI Display Audio driver can be... Troublesome for some people. Lots of people don't have trouble, I think, but it does seem fragile from the other troubleshooting posts I'm reading (I've not found anything directly applicable to your issue, though).
But lots of "No audio" and "missing formats" posts out there, with something approaching "I beat on the drivers like an ape and suddenly it started working" resolutions.
Anyway, here is the IMEI driver info.
So, I'm on newer hardware, and IMEI is weird, but that looks old. As I posted above, I'm on:
Intel(R) Management Engine Interface (driver 8.1.0.1263)
That's the one I got from ASUS's website for my motherboard, and is the one they still list. I think the current versions are v10, but Intel makes figuring those out difficult, and they don't publish them directly (except for Intel-branded motherboards).
What make/model is your computer? I can probably look it up for you if you can't find it.
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And the updated driver.
Okay, cool. Let me know if there are any changes.
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Well, one rather unpleasant change. No sound at all from the system, not even from the device test.
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Oh, the machine is a Dell Inspiron 660.
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Oh, the machine is a Dell Inspiron 660.
Dell's product names are useless, unfortunately, and they often have special drivers.
Find your Service Tag:
http://www.dell.com/support/contents/us/en/19/article/Product-Support/Self-support-Knowledgebase/locate-service-tag/Desktops
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Well, one rather unpleasant change. No sound at all from the system, not even from the device test.
This is actually a good thing. We made it change. Change badly, yes, but change. That means we're probably getting somewhere.
Was this after the GPU reinstall or after the IMEI change? I hope you did them separately. Please do everything separately and test in between. Always.
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Dell lists IMEI driver 9.5.14.1724,A01 (16 Oct 2013) as the current version for the Inspiron 660 from Early 2012 (http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/product-support/product/inspiron-660/drivers), which looks like it could be your box, but I can't confirm without the Service Tag.
If that is it, there's also a BIOS update. Though, I'd save that for last if possible (and make SURE not to get excited and do that as a combo with other steps).
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This is actually a good thing. We made it change. Change badly, yes, but change. That means we're probably getting somewhere.
Was this after the GPU reinstall or after the IMEI change? I hope you did them separately. Please do everything separately and test in between. Always.
Your first sentence made me laugh. Makes sense though. The issue occurred after the GPU install.
Oh wait. Sound. Not sure what happened there. This time only through MC. The issue persists. 44.1K files will not play. Neither the Tidal app nor any browser based sound will play.
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Service tag is HHZ1QS1
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Okay. Yep. The page I found before was for yours. Your drivers are here:
http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/product-support/servicetag/HHZ1QS1/drivers
The Intel GPU drivers themselves I'd get the ones from Intel. But, the IMEI driver you should get from here. It looks like you should end up with something like version 9.5.14.1724. That could be a driver "package" version number though. But get that one and install it.
Then, let me know if anything changes.
If that fails, I'd try this (roughly in order, testing in between each one and reverting if it made no difference):
1. Uninstall the Conexant onboard audio driver via Device Manager and disable it in the BIOS.
2. Uninstalling the GPU driver (as we did above) and installing the one from Dell on that page.
3. Update the BIOS.
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Oh wait. Sound. Not sure what happened there. This time only through MC. The issue persists. 44.1K files will not play. Neither the Tidal app nor any browser based sound will play.
Before you start any of that, recheck your default audio device in Windows. It probably changed when you uninstalled the GPU driver forcibly like that. It might be set to the JRiver WDM driver or perhaps nothing at all.
That might be the only reason you're not getting sound in Windows anymore.
Then proceed with the above.
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The BIOS update is an update to the Management Engine. Just saying...
If you update your BIOS, save the old one out to disc (or make sure you download a clean copy of the old version from Dell) first before you do the update. That way you can roll back if it messes it all up.
It probably won't, but I've never minded having the chance to go backwards on a BIOS version.
I'd still do my tests in the order described above. Fix the IMEI driver before all else. Then do the updates/tests in the order I suggested. Maybe you promote the BIOS update to before trying Dell's GPU driver. That part's up to you.
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Before you start any of that, recheck your default audio device in Windows. It probably changed when you uninstalled the GPU driver forcibly like that. It might be set to the JRiver WDM driver or perhaps nothing at all.
That might be the only reason you're not getting sound in Windows anymore.
Then proceed with the above.
Pretty sure the audio device has been set correctly. MC plays files. Unfortunately, I can't get sound from anything else.
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Pretty sure the audio device has been set correctly. MC plays files. Unfortunately, I can't get sound from anything else.
Check and make sure it has the green checkmark like in this screenshot:
(http://i.imgur.com/fxnmF7i.jpg)
If so, then I'm calling that progress, even though it is crappy right now.
Do the IMEI thing. I'm pretty sure you have the wrong version of that in there. And the BIOS update might need to go with it, since that's a Management Engine BIOS update. There could be other BIOS fixes too, if you're a few versions back.
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I think I'm going to take the weekend to knock this thing out. Thanks so much for your help.
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OK, I may need more help with the BIOS. I think it is interfering with the update of the drivers, if I'm understanding you correctly, Glynor.
As usual, your assumptions are spot on. When I set the default to 48K everything plays as before. 44.1K files refuse to play if default is set at 16 bit 44.1K. Counter intuitive, really.
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Goalline & Glynor,
Not sure if this is helpful but you might want to check this thread: https://communities.intel.com/thread/32935?start=0&tstart=0
I also have a Pioneer receiver hooked up to my HTPC via HDMI (using the on board Intel video/audio drivers) and cannot play 44,100 audio files via WASAPI. They play fine if upsampled to 48,000 (Direct Sound) as do all other files (audio & video) at other bit rates which are not multiples of 44,100.
oneklakes
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That looks like a smoking gun. The OP's described issue in that thread matches yours exactly, Goalline.
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Interesting. I am using the exact same receiver. Well, the American version, the SC 67 anyway. Seems to me the receiver doesn't play nice with Intel drivers in WASAPI mode.
Edit: Read the rest of the thread. Confirmed. Time to ditch this Intel machine.
Thanks for your help, guys.
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Before you ditch the PC, you should check out this thread: http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=145249
Per the last post there, I confirmed that setting the refresh rate to 59i will allow MC to play 44.1K files via WASAPI HDMI on my Pioneer AVR.
From a video standpoint though, is it worth "reducing" the refresh rate just to have this work? If there's no negative effect, then we could just leave it and be done with it. Otherwise, the workaround would be to set up video and audio profiles in the display driver app and switch back and forth depending on what whether we're listening to audio v. watching video.
Glynor and others, any thoughts on this approach?
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I'd get a cheap discreet graphics card and be done with it. There's nothing else wrong with that PC. It does have one PCIe x16 slot, so as long as it isn't super-crowded in the case, you should be able to get any mainstream video card and slap it in there with little trouble.
If you don't care at all about gaming performance, and you aren't going to worry about highly tweaking the card for fancy video filters, then something like this:
* nvidia GT 730 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709&IsNodeId=1&Description=gt%20730&name=Desktop%20Graphics%20Cards&Order=PRICE&Pagesize=90&isdeptsrh=1)
The Zotac one looks nice and is fanless.
If you do care a bit about gaming, or you might want to do more to optimize video playback in the future, you almost certainly can't go wrong (at 1080p resolutions anyway) with:
* nvidia GTX 960 (http://techreport.com/review/27806/five-geforce-gtx-960-cards-overclocked)
Even though I'm something of a fanboy, I wouldn't go with an AMD card right now.
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Glynor and others, any thoughts on this approach?
You could do it in a pinch, but I'd spend the $50-60 and just fix it. Intel's CPUs are nice, and their mobile GPUs are getting better, but their graphics drivers are clearly junk.
Who knows what bug you hit next?
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Even though I'm something of a fanboy, I wouldn't go with an AMD card right now.
Care to elucidate?
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There are a bunch of reasons. Specific to the cards themselves, AMDs latest aren't very efficient (as previously discussed here (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=90529.msg621778#msg621778)). They're basically fighting the war against nividia right now by (a) throwing voltage at the problem and "overclocking" their chips, and (b) cutting prices.
A isn't really a serious problem in a desktop, because even though they do have higher power draw, it is still an overall tiny part of your monthly electric bill. But, they do have heat problems, which means they have noise problems, and then silicon running hot all the time also often has lifespan problems (though these are all fairly minor concerns).
The bigger problem is that they're having serious financial issues. They've had repeated rounds of layoffs. Scuttlebutt is that morale is terrible, and most of the good engineers have fled for greener pastures. And, on top of it, the driver teams have taken a huge hit (no new driver from them since, what, January, when they used to release them monthly like clockwork).
Making things worse, of course... They're getting it from both ends. The "ATI" (graphics) division has basically been keeping AMD afloat the past few years (since Intel fixed their problems and started whomping butt again). But now nvidia is whomping butt and AMD has to ship inefficient (and therefore big and costly) chips to compete? And now with the new 960 and 970 from nvidia, they have to drastically cut prices to compete (and those margins are what is making up for the massive losses on the CPU side)?
And, their mobile situation is, of course, even more dire. They can't get any design wins, and their big "extra" (better onboard graphics) is now seriously being challenged by Intel on the low end and crushed by nvidia on the medium and high ends.
I don't know. I'm afraid they might be a shell of their even-currently-shell-like-selves a year or two from now. Possibly gobbled up by someone.
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Which all kind of sucks, because it would be terrible if NVIDIA or Intel did not have any competition.
NVIDIA's prices have already shot up in the last few years since AMD have been unable to compete.
Intel's prices have always been higher, but I feel like they're on an upward trend relative to AMD as well.
And I'm not particularly happy with NVIDIA right now due to the 970's advertised specs being inflated over what they really were.
Philosophically, I prefer AMD's approach to things as well.
Their contributions (Mantle/Vulkan, OpenCL, Adaptive Sync, TressFX) are all "open" while NVIDIA develops proprietary tech to lock customers in. (CUDA, G-Sync, PhysX, GameWorks)
But AMD are really falling behind when it comes to both the CPU and GPU markets.
The upcoming 300 series of GPUs, other than the 390/X, are said to be complete rebrands again with the 380 being a 290, the 370 being a 280 etc.
And their graphics drivers are so far behind NVIDIA.
With NVIDIA, the performance increase from DX11 to DX12 is smaller, while overall performance is higher. (http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph8962/71450.png)
With AMD, there are massive increases in performance, because AMD's DX11 drivers have so much CPU overhead.
Compare the 290X to the GTX680. The 290X is actually the faster card (43 vs 36 FPS) but in DX11 performance is 1/3 that of the 680 due to this driver overhead.
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Which all kind of sucks
Absolutely. All great points.
Like I said here and before, I've always pretty much been an AMD (really, ATI) fanboy. But, it isn't looking too good right now. They could pull one out and turn it around. They do have a few compelling products, but... I don't know. The path to righting the ship keeps narrowing and narrowing.
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Thanks for that fascinating insight. I do agree, though, that it's vital that Intel & Nvidia continue to be faced with viable commercial competition.
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Yeah, I plan speaking with my son to see if he has a spare Nvidia card that I can bum off him. Not quitting yet. :)
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Went with a GeForce GT 610 card. Works like a charm on 44.1K files. Thanks for your help, guys. I have noticed that the card does not support 88.2K files or any of its multiples nor any formats greater than 192K. Will the GT 730 support these?
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No, NVIDIA only support 44.1/48/96/192kHz sample rates.
I'd recommend resampling everything else to the highest rate supported by your device.
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AH WELL, CAN'T WIN THEM ALL. :)
Well, I don't have many files in those formats. The lesser of two evils, I guess.
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I suppose I can use both graphics cards.
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I'd recommend resampling everything else to the highest rate supported by your device.
+1
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New thread on topic, perhaps. Graphics card that offers the most sound formats.