Topic: DSP Studio still does not work (Read 9983 times)

sstyle · « **on:** September 20, 2015, 04:29:27 am »

Tried to export music to handheld via devices sync with DSP Volume align options. Still does not work.

Arindelle · « **Reply #1 on:** September 20, 2015, 06:14:01 am »

Quote from: sstyle on September 20, 2015, 04:29:27 am

Tried to export music to handheld via devices sync with DSP Volume align options. Still does not work.

Not sure I understand? could you be more specific?

Do you mean you have checked the box "Apply DSP settings" under hand held options?

Are you trying to convert on the fly from Flac to mp3?? And you want to permanently "normalize" these files? If so are you sure you want to do this?

There is a recent post on this. http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99826.0.

sstyle · « **Reply #2 on:** September 20, 2015, 06:18:06 am »

Yes, I cheched the checkbox under Apply DSP settings under handheld options and in config check two box (Volume align).

No, I have a collection in FLAC and image-files and wish to have FLAC files on my handheld with same volume on all tracks.

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** September 20, 2015, 06:23:19 am »

Did you have MC analyze your files first?

sstyle · « **Reply #4 on:** September 20, 2015, 01:08:15 pm »

Hm, I think no. I will try and post a result here, thanks!

Arindelle · « **Reply #5 on:** September 20, 2015, 02:54:47 pm »

I do not think you want to check that box ... analyze your files fist and convert to mp3 see if that suits your handheld player first. If you check the box you could have some major compression issues if mixed with non-normalized mp3s (see the article! I linked to)

As for the eq I doubt that will be usable anyways unless you have a pretty sophisticated handheld device. If you decide to do this anyway (normalize the files themselves) ... don't use replay gain or sound check (iphone IOS) for playback.

You don't need to alter the audio files to have same playback volumes remember. The tag information form audio analysis, you do need as Jim pointed out.

sstyle · « **Reply #6 on:** September 21, 2015, 06:23:35 am »

Thank you but about what checkbox you're talking about? I use a portable player FiiO X5-II not an IPhone and looks like that it has not replaygain support.

Arindelle · « **Reply #7 on:** September 21, 2015, 07:41:08 am »

Quote from: sstyle on September 21, 2015, 06:23:35 am

Thank you but about what checkbox you're talking about? I use a portable player FiiO X5-II not an IPhone and looks like that it has not replaygain support.

ah ok, then yes you are one of the few that would want to do this (bearing in mind that the dynamics could suffer a bit). I googled your FiiO and found a forum article ... seems sort of strange it doesn't support any volume metadata. But looks like they are looking into it in a future firmware update.

Anyway, after you have all your music analyzed

You can try this after tracks are selected

on the menu go Tools =>Advanced => Convert Format

choose your encoder, click options and use the wizard like in this screen shot, click the "box" I was talking about and choose the DSPs you want.

Be careful to not overwrite your original files. I've read that it is better to use 32bit at least (I think the automatic default goes as high as the encoder you choose will allow not sure -- I'd check after doing a couple.) -- apparently this can help avoid clipping if I understood correctly.

If Fiio adds some kind of replay gain or R128 volume control, you might want to reconvert without the DSPs, though. You might want to save a playlist of the tracks you have converted to make this easier. I'd also try a small batch of tracks first as a test to hear it on the player. Depending on what DSPs you are applying - if any other than peak volume leveling - might need some tweaking

sstyle · « **Reply #8 on:** September 21, 2015, 09:14:52 am »

Thanks, do it now. But I can not find setting for 32bit mode.

Arindelle · « **Reply #9 on:** September 21, 2015, 09:19:11 am »

Quote from: sstyle on September 21, 2015, 09:14:52 am

Thanks, do it now. But I can not find setting for 32bit mode.

in my screenshot hit the bitdepth arrow (its highlighted). Automatic should process it in 32 or 44 bit, though -- I'm just not 100% sure. Just don't mess with your eq too much

sstyle · « **Reply #10 on:** September 21, 2015, 09:20:17 am »

oh, I see. But I use handheld sync mode, and there is no such setting.

sstyle · « **Reply #11 on:** September 21, 2015, 09:21:35 am »

Also I can not setup a FiiO X5-II (in DAC mode) to play DSD without conversion on Windows. On Mac is works perfect.

Arindelle · « **Reply #12 on:** September 21, 2015, 09:28:10 am »

Quote from: sstyle on September 21, 2015, 09:20:17 am

oh, I see. But I use handheld sync mode, and there is no such setting.

its when you do (prior to) the conversion (not while syncing) -- see the screen shot

Quote from: sstyle on September 21, 2015, 09:21:35 am

Also I can not setup a FiiO X5-II (in DAC mode) to play DSD without conversion on Windows. On Mac is works perfect.

have no idea I don't have your device nor do I use dsd ported to a handheld sorry. If it works on Mac it should on Windows though, the Mac version is more limited than the Windows version rather than the other way around.

.. you should start another post on that in the DAC forum and put the Fiio in the subject line ...

sstyle · « **Reply #13 on:** September 21, 2015, 01:26:10 pm »

I see.

Well, I tried to apply DSP. Before that I used a 35 volume level on my DAP, now I should use 60 volume level for the same volume on 90% tracks. But I still have a 5% that louder than 90% and 5% that quieter

So, does volume normalization makes sound quality worse?

Arindelle · « **Reply #14 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:55:39 pm »

Quote from: sstyle on September 21, 2015, 01:26:10 pm

Well, I tried to apply DSP. Before that I used a 35 volume level on my DAP, now I should use 60 volume level for the same volume on 90% tracks. But I still have a 5% that louder than 90% and 5% that quieter

Depends on how your device handles "normalized" files ... doesn't matter really if you are at 60% or 35% on a device ... high level recorded saturated rock, metal or electro tracks are going to be dropped to -23dbfs (I think replay gain is at 83db) so sure thats pretty normal if thats what you are listening to ... classical would probably be the other way around. -17 or so decibels is significant.

You could try adaptive volume in your conversions. Test it in a few tracks and see .... .. otherwise better tell the guys at Fiio to add temporary volume leveling, R128 or at least replay gain support, to their firmware as normalized tracks can't deal with album dynamics. Here's a post on the forum ... other users of your player are not too pleased about this => http://www.fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=40416

I'm assuming you read this but if not http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Volume_Leveling and here's about adaptive volume in conjunction with the other http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Adaptive_Volume.

good luck

sstyle · « **Reply #15 on:** September 22, 2015, 01:02:35 am »

You should know that 95% DAPs does not support replaygain. And I think that FiiO will not have this function. Only VERY expensive device have this one. Ok, I will try. Thank you!

sstyle · « **Reply #16 on:** September 22, 2015, 01:04:38 am »

About Adaptive Volume - "Different albums will not have similar volume levels if both are enabled."

And now, after normalisation - I have some tracks that quiet than others. Why it can be so?

Arindelle · « **Reply #17 on:** September 22, 2015, 05:26:25 am »

Quote from: sstyle on September 22, 2015, 01:04:38 am

About Adaptive Volume - "Different albums will not have similar volume levels if both are enabled."

And now, after normalisation - I have some tracks that quiet than others. Why it can be so?

I'm not sure how permanently modified files will playback honestly with adaptive leveling ... I never apply dsp to any of my files. It does have a tendency to reboost the volume level a bit which you complained about ... and each option does different things on playback. One tends to preserve dynamics more. So pianissimo will not be as loud as FFF -- if you want a classical solo on a harp to be exactly the same level as a post hard-core band you don't want to do this. If you are only listening to complete albums you might ... That's why I said test a few.

Quote from: sstyle on September 22, 2015, 01:02:35 am

You should know that 95% DAPs does not support replaygain. And I think that FiiO will not have this function. Only VERY expensive device have this one. Ok, I will try. Thank you!

Sure no problem

OK, I don't know much about handhelds (I'm presuming you are talking about any portable digital audio player - not as an acronym for something else). Funny I would think it would be the other way around, as highend audiophile type devices -- would not be as interested in volume leveling and certainly would avoid normalized files. Their are a bunch of cheaper ones that interpret VL metadata to one degree or another they might not use the replay gain or R128 standard ... eg. Apple, Sony, devices that run Android have apps that do so ... so I thought it would pretty democratized by now

sstyle · « **Reply #18 on:** September 22, 2015, 06:21:27 am »

I see. Now I tried a foobar to replaygain scan and apply it to export files. On it looks like I get what I want.

For ex, replaygain tag scan result compare:

MC21 | Foobar
-8.19 | -8.13
-9.28 | -9.18
-10.57 | -5.59 - this track plays quieter than others after MC21 export on my DAP
-10.66 | -6.13 - this track plays quieter than others after MC21 export on my DAP
-8.70 | -6.31
-11.18 | -7.08 - this track plays quieter than others after MC21 export on my DAP
-11.44 | -7.54 - this track plays quieter than others after MC21 export on my DAP
-7.41 | -7.06

As you can see there is a lot of tracks that significantly different and foobar wins in this battle. So, can you talk with developers to fix an algorithm of analyze replaygain?

sstyle · « **Reply #19 on:** September 23, 2015, 04:30:47 am »

up...

p.s. adaptive volume does not help

Arindelle · « **Reply #20 on:** September 23, 2015, 11:04:57 am »

Quote from: sstyle on September 23, 2015, 04:30:47 am

up...

p.s. adaptive volume does not help

well I can't test this for your player ... R128 standard is more accurate, but also is at the 83db broadcast standard (I believe replay gain is 89db not sure) -- that could explain the differences you are seeing ... I don't know why they are not all approx. 5db difference though (check your eq is flat in DSP studio)

-- you could try to boost the preamp eq in DSP STudio by +5db (everything else flat) on the same files and see the result -- warning: you might have clipping adding the +5db to some music

If you want all tracks to be the same volume (no album dynamics) you probably don't want to use adaptive volume IMO.

For info, this has been highly improved over the past few years, I think the algorithm is great and works as it should. It just might not be adapted to normalizing at higher playback levels but if you have 60% as you mentioned just turn it up. Or use foobar or try dbpoweramp as I don't know what else to suggest to you. I'll leave it to someone else to reply.

PS - At least one developer reads all the posts here on the forum, btw.

sstyle · « **Reply #21 on:** September 23, 2015, 11:08:17 am »

I`m just talking that the Foobar makes all tracks on same volume, really. I tried to listen on DAP and PC. But MC21 does not do that. Normalized tracks still have a different volume level. I can share some tracks for test. You can compare Replaygain tags from foobar and MC21 (I did it upper)

sstyle · « **Reply #22 on:** September 24, 2015, 10:45:33 am »

Ok. I found strange thing. I rescaned my library and now all files normalize with same volume level. BUT.

Look at replaygain tag normalized files by MC21 = 5dB

And after foobar2000 applied replaygain tag = 0dB.

Why 5dB? Why not 0?

ogs · « **Reply #23 on:** September 28, 2015, 03:39:29 am »

I think you may find an explanation here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82102.msg559768;topicseen#msg559768

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Author Topic: DSP Studio still does not work (Read 9983 times)