Topic: DLNA server Sonos compatibility? (Read 1693 times)

nathan_h · « **on:** August 20, 2024, 11:44:37 pm »

I have used other DLNA servers in the past with my Sonos. Nothing fancy.

Sonos finds any DLNA server on the local network and one can play from it, all via the Sonos (S1, don't know about S2) interface. Very nice for large collections and typically more stable than the Sonos library.

For some reason, although I believe I have configured and enabled the DLNA server in MC33, my Sonos system is not seeing it as a DLNA server. (Note that MC33 is seeing the Sonos clients as valid places to play to.)

Is this is a known issue, user error, or something else?

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2024, 06:11:20 am »

Try testing from another computer running MC, to see if that works.

I know that Sonos devices work as DLNA Renderers. I'm not sure how complete their DLNA support is.

In MC's options make sure all 3 parts of DLNA are on.

A firewall could block.

Allow more time.

nathan_h · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2024, 11:46:19 am »

Thanks. I only see one option under Media Network in Options.

I'll see if the Mac firewall is blocking it. Thanks of the tips.

(Does the license allow me to install on a second computer of the same OS?)

dtc · « **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2024, 02:36:17 pm »

Under Media Networks - Advanced there are 3 DLNA options, Renderer, Server and Control. Make sure all are checked.

Your license allows you to install the software of multiple systems, as long as they are yours.

nathan_h · « **Reply #4 on:** August 21, 2024, 02:43:36 pm »

Ok. Thanks for the suggestions.

Update: All those options look like they were enabled by default. And I have confirmed the Firewall is set to allow incoming connections for JRiver.

I'll need to try it on another machine and see.

nathan_h · « **Reply #5 on:** August 21, 2024, 03:45:45 pm »

Hmmm. Turns out I need to find a way to enable UPNP. This appears to be the key and a slightly different protocol (superset or subset depending on whom you speak with) of DLNA.

I tried to follow the info on this wiki page, but don't see that this option still exists.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/UPnP_Server_and_Devices_(Media_Receivers)

JimH · « **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2024, 04:35:10 pm »

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DLNA

For our purposes, our DLNA implementation is fully compatible with the UPnP standard.

nathan_h · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2024, 04:51:10 pm »

Interesting...... Okay, I'll keep at it

More info: I used VLC as a DLNA or UPNP client on a mobile device.....and it could easily find the JRiver MC DLNA server, browse it, and play anything.

Conclusion: Sonos is the issue not JRiver.

More info: I tried AssetUPNP server and Sonos saw it okay. I would rather not get AssetUPNP for that, and use JRiver, so this is just a data point, nothing more.

More info: In JRiver, I was able to PLAY TO a Sonos speaker, no problem. So they are seeing one another. I just can't browse the JRiver database from the Sonos app and control what to play from the Sonos app, like I can with AssetUPNP (as an example).

markf2748 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 21, 2024, 05:13:50 pm »

Look at Options > Media Network > Add or Configure DLNA Servers... > DLNA Servers > Generic DLNA > Customize Views... > Items to Show - Audio (left panel)

Are any of your audio views from the Tree listed there?

nathan_h · « **Reply #9 on:** August 21, 2024, 05:16:25 pm »

This is what I see so I think the answer is "no"?

markf2748 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 21, 2024, 05:26:25 pm »

I'm not experienced with using "Original Format" as a DLNA Server.

On my Windows PCs, there is the option "Generic DLNA (works with most devices)" which has always worked for me. Can you select that out of the "Add..." dropdown list?

Also, under "Options > Media Network > [ ] Authentication" is the box checked marked? I usually have it check marked and log in from client PCs. But with Sonos, you might ~~want~~ try it deselected ~~since I suspect there is no keyboard login available~~.

nathan_h · « **Reply #11 on:** August 21, 2024, 05:39:20 pm »

I haven't made any customizations. (This is the Mac OSX version of course as the screen shot may indicate.)

These are my options. If I add a server, do I need to enable it in a particular way?

markf2748 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 21, 2024, 05:52:09 pm »

Sorry, but I don't have a Mac. For my PC, there are eight options under the "Add..." menu. "Original Format" is the first choice, but I have never used it.

You can see my other settings to the left under "Audio".

nathan_h · « **Reply #13 on:** August 21, 2024, 05:59:21 pm »

Fair enough! I appreciate your help.

I have tried Generic DLNA and Legacy UPNP.

Unless there is something I need to do other than simply "add" them to the list, I don't see any change in behavior.

Are they all running at once?

markf2748 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 21, 2024, 06:13:33 pm »

I have only the one DLNA Server selected in the list. Additional settings are shown for it under Audio in my screenshot.

Tree > Media Network reveals the servers actually running and their ports. Normally there are five "all running properly" in the Summary (all servers) screen. Selecting the DLNA Media Server: [PC Name] (Generic DLNA) from the drop down list shows it uses Port 52100 in my case~~, which must be open on the network router~~. Its activity log is normally full of events, as are the logs for the other four MC servers.

8/22/2024 Edit: If you are accessing MC only from within your local network, I don't think it's necessary to open the Ports explicitly, at least not for current Windows Defender / McAfee AV and not on the router (port forwarding is unnecessary). You just need to be sure MC and Sonos are set in the AV software to fully communicate on the local network.

nathan_h · « **Reply #15 on:** August 21, 2024, 06:21:42 pm »

Very interesting. They seem to be running. The DLNA media renderer has nothing in its log. I don't know whether that is a clue.

I don't THINK it's a blocked port. I turned off the firewall AND I was able to see the DLNA server from a different client (VLC on a tablet) and I was able to "play to" the SONOS from the JRiver interface. I just cannot see the JRiver/MC from the Sonos side (like I can with, for example, AssetUPNP server.)

markf2748 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 21, 2024, 07:42:04 pm »

As a "last resort", you might try other DLNA servers, if you have not done so already, which can serve up the MC music files and determine if they can be seen by SONOS to your liking. Two robust servers which come to mind are Minim Server and BubbleUPnP Server.

nathan_h · « **Reply #17 on:** August 21, 2024, 09:24:07 pm »

Yes, AssetUPNP is visible to Sonos. I was just trying to consolidate on JRiver.

JimH · « **Reply #18 on:** August 22, 2024, 07:40:57 am »

Quote from: nathan_h on August 21, 2024, 09:24:07 pm

Yes, AssetUPNP is visible to Sonos. I was just trying to consolidate on JRiver.

Is Asset on the same machine where you're having trouble?

If so, some security setting is different.

nathan_h · « **Reply #19 on:** August 22, 2024, 10:56:14 am »

That makes sense.

I've gone through the entire Privacy & Security section of the Settings app and don't see anything related to either app.

I've turned off the firewall completely to see if that was blocking something. It wasn't.

I've turned off the other (AssetUPNP) DLNA server in case there was a conflict.

I'm not sure what else to try and suspect it is an issue with Sonos.

JimH · « **Reply #20 on:** August 22, 2024, 11:10:03 am »

Antivirus

nathan_h · « **Reply #21 on:** August 22, 2024, 11:14:09 am »

Disabled on this Mac throughout the test.

JimH · « **Reply #22 on:** August 22, 2024, 02:05:49 pm »

Double check permissions you've granted in the OS. It's in the install thread.

JimH · « **Reply #23 on:** August 22, 2024, 02:08:25 pm »

Did you try using MC running on another machine to connect to the server that isn't working?

nathan_h · « **Reply #24 on:** August 22, 2024, 03:53:17 pm »

Quote from: JimH on August 22, 2024, 02:05:49 pm

Double check permissions you've granted in the OS. It's in the install thread.

If you are asked for accessibility permissions you must accept that (it's how MC deals with retina displays).

Not using a Retina display as my primary display and the install didn't ask for this. (Not sure where to enable it in Settings.)

If you are asked for screen recording permissions, you need to accept that for MC's user interface to operate properly, MC uses that permission to copy from part of it's window to another part of it's window. It's not used for anything else.

Not worried about the UI but tried this in case it helps.

If you are asked for permission for input monitoring (capturing keys) you must accept that if you want the media keys on your keyboard to work in MC, it's not used for anything else.

Not using my media keys, though enabled this in case it helps.

When the system asks for permissions for MC to do disk access (Music, Pictures, Movies, Removable drives, etc) you must accept those to be able to access your media or CD/DVD drives or mounted NAS filesystems, or external drives)

Accepted. It can see my files.

----

I should probably make clear. I can play my files on the computer. And I can PLAY TO any of my Sonos speakers. I can see the SONOS end points (and others) in the JRiver MC interface.

What I cannot do is access the JRiver server/service from inside the Sonos controller app. I can see a different Upnp server (eg, AssetUPNP).

So the bulk of what should be working is working. Either I am missing an option to toggle in MC, or Sonos is just too finicky. Based on past experience, I'd guess the latter. (I have contacted Sonos, but their responsiveness is not great.)

nathan_h · « **Reply #25 on:** August 22, 2024, 03:58:57 pm »

Quote from: JimH on August 22, 2024, 02:08:25 pm

Did you try using MC running on another machine to connect to the server that isn't working?

I'm not sure if I understand this question.

1. yes, I have tried this on two different Macs.

2. it's not about accessing a server via MC, just to be clear. On one Mac I have all the music files and it can see and play them fine. And I can also access those music files from the other Mac, over the network, and that works fine too.

But you may mean can SONOS see the server, and to that I would say Sonos cannot. (But as noted the MC server can see the Sonos devices as valid end points/DLNA clients and "play to" any of them.)

JimH · « **Reply #26 on:** August 22, 2024, 04:00:23 pm »

On the DLNA Server, there are some options for "broken renderer". You could try those.

nathan_h · « **Reply #27 on:** August 22, 2024, 04:10:03 pm »

Quote from: JimH on August 22, 2024, 04:00:23 pm

On the DLNA Server, there are some options for "broken renderer". You could try those.

That sound promising. I cannot find that particular option but I tried to enable everything that might relate to compatibility.

dtc · « **Reply #28 on:** August 22, 2024, 05:03:35 pm »

Not exactly what you want to do, but you should be able to use JRemote to access your MC system and then direct output to a Sonos speaker, as long as MC can play to that speaker directly. It will play to whatever speakers are in the same group as that speaker.

nathan_h · « **Reply #29 on:** August 22, 2024, 05:15:15 pm »

Quote from: dtc on August 22, 2024, 05:03:35 pm

Not exactly what you want to do, but you should be able to use JRemote to access your MC system and then direct output to a Sonos speaker, as long as MC can play to that speaker directly. It will play to whatever speakers are in the same group as that speaker.

Thanks for pointing that out. Yes that would be a user friendly way to work around it a bit, arguably easier than busting out a laptop running MC. Either of these approaches mean less flexibility but since I’m the only one in the household who cares about the local lossless audio library I may accept the workaround (while I continue to try to figure out a fix).

nathan_h · « **Reply #30 on:** August 23, 2024, 08:50:37 am »

Quote from: JimH on August 22, 2024, 04:00:23 pm

On the DLNA Server, there are some options for "broken renderer". You could try those.

Do you mean these options that are available on a "per player" basis?

So far this doesn't seem to do it. But maybe there is a system wide option like these?

bob · « **Reply #31 on:** August 23, 2024, 01:00:10 pm »

Renderer settings won't affect anything here.
Looking in the sonos s1 app on iOS, even running a BubbleUPnP server I don't see it show up even though the Bubble server shows up in MC as a DLNA server.

nathan_h · « **Reply #32 on:** August 23, 2024, 01:49:43 pm »

Quote from: bob on August 23, 2024, 01:00:10 pm

Renderer settings won't affect anything here.
Looking in the sonos s1 app on iOS, even running a BubbleUPnP server I don't see it show up even though the Bubble server shows up in MC as a DLNA server.

Yes, this is why I think the issue here is Sonos' poor support for DLNA and UPNP. AssetUPNP is one of the few that shows up in the Sonos interface (I too am testing/using the S1 app).

My hope was that JRiver might be so configurable that I could find (or someone else had already found) the right combination of settings in JRiver that would allow/enable Sonos to see JRiver.

To be clear, most DLNA servers I have tried do NOT get detected by Sonos even though in theory they should.

(And I don't have much confidence Sonos is going to address this. They have bigger issues to worry about!)

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Author Topic: DLNA server Sonos compatibility? (Read 1693 times)