Topic: Freedb closing down (Read 9811 times)

escaflo · « **on:** July 02, 2006, 07:25:41 pm »

http://freedb.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=292

Guess that's a good reason why JRiver decide to go with YADB in the first place. =)

Charlemagne 8 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 02, 2006, 07:57:35 pm »

Sad.
I wonder what EAC will use now.
CVIII

glynor · « **Reply #2 on:** July 02, 2006, 08:24:13 pm »

Wow... Really stinks when petty infighting kills projects like that (in both the open source and proprietary realm).

I also have a feeling from reading the postings that the last word may not have been said yet. We'll see what Joerg and Ari decide to do now. Good luck to them, whatever it is!

newsposter · « **Reply #3 on:** July 02, 2006, 10:37:34 pm »

Someone QUICkLY needs to capture the dB in freedb.org

KingSparta · « **Reply #4 on:** July 03, 2006, 05:34:51 am »

Quote from: newsposter on July 02, 2006, 10:37:34 pm

Someone QUICkLY needs to capture the dB in freedb.org

Yep, If The Price Is Right

Alex B · « **Reply #5 on:** July 03, 2006, 05:45:17 am »

The db and the server software are free (GPL) and still downloadable on freedb's ftp servers. Many user's have a copy of the db running on local networks.

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #6 on:** July 03, 2006, 05:48:59 am »

Quote from: Alex B on July 03, 2006, 05:45:17 am

The db and the server software are free (GPL) and still downloadable on freedb's ftp servers. Many user's have a copy of the db running on local networks.

I reckon it'll be up again with in a week or two.

Alex B · « **Reply #7 on:** July 03, 2006, 07:08:01 am »

It depends. Just check the statistics here: http://www.freedb.org/freedb_stats.php. I suppose the traffic consumes quite a lot of bandwidth. I wonder who would be willing to donate that in the future?

Besides, the domain name is not free. The owner announced that he is taking offers.

If the service really ends there would probably be millions of common users without any idea of what happened.

Luckily we have YADB. We should just try to contribute more and make it better.

JimH · « **Reply #8 on:** July 03, 2006, 09:15:47 am »

We might be interested in helping out. We'll check later this week.

dcwebman · « **Reply #9 on:** July 03, 2006, 10:55:23 am »

Quote from: Alex B on July 03, 2006, 05:45:17 am

The db and the server software are free (GPL) and still downloadable on freedb's ftp servers. Many user's have a copy of the db running on local networks.

Just a dumb question. If that's the case why doesn't somebody start uploading the freedb data to YADB?

glynor · « **Reply #10 on:** July 03, 2006, 10:59:03 am »

Quote from: JimH on July 03, 2006, 09:15:47 am

We might be interested in helping out. We'll check later this week.

Here's to hoping that the domain owner is a reasonable person. From Joerg and Ari's posts though it sounds like he may be a true believer which could complicate matters.

Of course his post sounded like an open call to Gracenote to buy him out.

KingSparta · « **Reply #11 on:** July 03, 2006, 01:09:06 pm »

Quote

Just a dumb question. If that's the case why doesn't somebody start uploading the freedb data to YADB?

YADB Started From The FreeDB Data 4 Years Ago.

runemail · « **Reply #12 on:** July 03, 2006, 01:13:44 pm »

Update on freedb.org:

Quote

update:

currently, there are talks with organisations regarding freedb's future.
I am trying to find an organisation that takes the domain and ensures
the following:
# they have to provide the freedb service, not only take the domain
# the service must remain free of charge for users and developers, regardless of the application
# database updates will be available on a regular schedule and will be free of charge
# the licence of the data and the software will remain under the GPL

glynor · « **Reply #13 on:** July 03, 2006, 01:15:56 pm »

Quote from: glynor on July 03, 2006, 10:59:03 am

Of course his post sounded like an open call to Gracenote to buy him out.

Guess not!

Gracenote certainly wouldn't honor those terms.

That's good news. I'd love to see JRiver support that service. I think it could lead to a lot of exposure for MC, and give many people that one feature they keep screaming about.

jgreen · « **Reply #14 on:** July 03, 2006, 01:44:40 pm »

#1. This guy sounds like a True Believer and that's probably why his project blew up in his face. He sounds like he expects someone to take up web hosting of his site for free and not change anything else.

#2. If I was sitting in JimH's spot right now, I would see a big opportunity here but only if that Knucklehead at freeDb were willing to bend a little. Like advertising for MC and links to download the software. It wouldn't be freeDb anymore, it would be freeDb (still free) hosted by MC. Everybody would get what they wanted, but that True Believer might not get the pulpit he seems to desire.

#3. As I see it, the Domain name is the only thing separating freeDb from Gracenote or yabb. JRiver could download an update from the ashes of freedb and have all the data, subject to its being cleaned and uploaded to yabb.

hit_ny · « **Reply #15 on:** July 03, 2006, 01:57:55 pm »

Quote from: jgreen on July 03, 2006, 01:44:40 pm

#2. If I was sitting in JimH's spot right now, I would see a big opportunity here but only if that Knucklehead at freeDb were willing to bend a little. Like advertising for MC and links to download the software. It wouldn't be freeDb anymore, it would be freeDb (still free) hosted by MC. Everybody would get what they wanted, but that True Believer might not get the pulpit he seems to desire.

This is an iffy proposition, cos its not only the Knucklehead at freedb you have to worry about but more the family he represents.

If it was done in an unintrusive style a la google where the benefits are the same sure, otherwise it could backfire.

jgreen · « **Reply #16 on:** July 03, 2006, 02:15:51 pm »

Backife? I would call the service shutting down a pretty good backfire. And this in the face of the kind of usage numbers shown on Alex B's link.

I think everything about the service is perfect, except for its management, AFAICT. How else do you explain shutting down when you've got the kind of traffic advertizers would kill for? What--ads would spoil it (it probably would for me)? Doesn't shutting down kind of spoil it anyway? These guys were faced with hard choices and decided to bug out.

lpr · « **Reply #17 on:** July 03, 2006, 05:52:30 pm »

http://freedb2.org./

newsposter · « **Reply #18 on:** July 03, 2006, 06:02:10 pm »

I should have been more specific.

The data that freedb represents is the crown jewel of freedb.org. Not the apps, not the personalities, not the egos. The data.

In light of recent cleanup and reindex efforts at freedb.org, that database is more clean (read:valuable) than it was even 2 weeks ago. It would be a Good Community Thing if JR would be able to capture and merge the present-day freedb data into YADB. Whether or not JR could support world-wide constant access to the new merged database is something only JR can speak to.

That MC would get a load more exposure and sales is probably a sure thing. What needs a lot of forethought is the tolerance of the 'open source' community for such obvious ties between the largest internet music lookup database and a commercial product (MC).

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #19 on:** July 03, 2006, 06:10:27 pm »

Quote from: newsposter on July 03, 2006, 06:02:10 pm

What needs a lot of forethought is the tolerance of the 'open source' community for such obvious ties between the largest internet music lookup database and a commercial product (MC).

And thats where the problem lies....
Open source people often live in a make believe world where
everything is free or should be free, and will be magically paid for by people
who want service, (when infact the more often than not
the people have legged off with everything and are in
no need of service). Anything commercial is seen as something
from the devil himself (Since making a living is a sin,
even with good intentions).

glynor · « **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2006, 08:05:21 pm »

I think that's as much of a gross generalization as saying that all vendors of proprietary systems are evil monopolists bent on world domination.

The open source community, like the world at large, is made up of shades of grey -- not stark contrasts. And, as always, there is a vocal minority of extremists. (Just like there are in religions and politics.)

I, for one, am a strong advocate of free software (free as in speech, not necessarily as in beer). However, I am also a strong advocate of JRiver's software and I (obviously) use Microsoft Windows as one of my operating systems.

hit_ny · « **Reply #21 on:** July 04, 2006, 03:36:00 am »

Quote from: jgreen on July 03, 2006, 02:15:51 pm

Backife? I would call the service shutting down a pretty good backfire. And this in the face of the kind of usage numbers shown on Alex B's link.

No idea, it feels like they are testing the waters to see what freedb is actually worth. Heh, this implies its all an act so far and things will be back as soon as differences are smoothed over.

Quote from: jgreen on July 03, 2006, 02:15:51 pm

How else do you explain shutting down when you've got the kind of traffic advertizers would kill for?

I wonder if the shift to web2 standards might be a way to accomodate this.

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #22 on:** July 04, 2006, 05:12:55 am »

Quote from: glynor on July 03, 2006, 08:05:21 pm

I think that's as much of a gross generalization as saying that all vendors of proprietary systems are evil monopolists bent on world domination.

Ah but i did say often, not always

Equally I am happy to say that commerical companys are often (like certain a Redmond company) evil monopolists, but not always (JRiver).
(Although I've heard rumours of Jims eyes turning red in the dark).

maruf_65 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 04, 2006, 09:07:56 am »

well very sad to hear the news

yes YADB is our only hope now

dcwebman · « **Reply #24 on:** July 04, 2006, 02:23:38 pm »

Quote from: KingSparta on July 03, 2006, 01:09:06 pm

YADB Started From The FreeDB Data 4 Years Ago.

Then that means there's 4 years of missing data.

KingSparta · « **Reply #25 on:** July 04, 2006, 05:48:08 pm »

Quote

Then that means there's 4 years of missing data.

Yes, and they are missing 4 years of YADB data

dcwebman · « **Reply #26 on:** July 05, 2006, 07:10:59 am »

Quote from: KingSparta on July 04, 2006, 05:48:08 pm

Yes, and they are missing 4 years of YADB data

Which makes for a perfect merge.

John Gateley · « **Reply #27 on:** July 05, 2006, 10:19:35 am »

A small comment: merging is not easy. I did a lot of cleaning work on the original data, and I also made adjustments for international character sets. Any merge process would have to take this into account.

j

jgreen · « **Reply #28 on:** July 05, 2006, 10:38:40 am »

FWIW, I've still never seen the deficiencies that everyone talks about with yadb. Granted, my tastes in music are fairly narrow compared with some here, but my experience ripping with cddb/freedb/yadb have all been similar.

dcwebman · « **Reply #29 on:** July 05, 2006, 12:07:28 pm »

Quote from: jgreen on July 05, 2006, 10:38:40 am

FWIW, I've still never seen the deficiencies that everyone talks about with yadb.

I think the one thing that I've seen is when I get a just released CD and the data isn't in YADB yet. I take a few minutes and type it in, but it sure is easier when somebody has already done it. The other databases with the larger audiences usually have it. Now if you're ripping an older CD, YADB usually has it.

glynor · « **Reply #30 on:** July 05, 2006, 12:32:14 pm »

I have encountered quite a few "indie" discs that YADB doesn't have (until I add them) but gracenote and FreeDB often do... For example:

Arcona Reel Band (a really good American-Celtic group)
a few discs by Coil (older stuff)
a couple of my Legendary Pink Dots discs didn't show up either

All in all, honestly, for as often as I rip new discs (hardly ever) the YADB deficiencies don't bother me. Now, if there was some magical way to automatically enter information from the txt files included with etree.org torrent files (for some reason no one seems to like to properly tag their FLAC files on there)... Then you'd really have something!

newsposter · « **Reply #31 on:** July 05, 2006, 05:46:27 pm »

Should a 'merge' between 20060701 freedb and the current yadb database be impossible, what are the chances that MC12 could include a facility to look at an actual freedb database file for local query only? Not to run as a server, just for local queries. The source code for the current server is freely available.

The current tarball of the freedb dB is about 370 meg in size, unpacked about 3.3Gb plus any indicies a user might want to build.

JimH · « **Reply #32 on:** July 11, 2006, 08:51:14 am »

Has anyone heard anything more about this? I just wrote them.

JimH · « **Reply #33 on:** July 12, 2006, 07:08:47 pm »

We made the owner an offer. It was off by a factor of 20. You can guess which side.

LonWar · « **Reply #34 on:** July 13, 2006, 07:42:49 am »

Quote from: JimH on July 12, 2006, 07:08:47 pm

We made the owner an offer. It was off by a factor of 20. You can guess which side.

I guess they want much more then it's worth....

KingSparta · « **Reply #35 on:** July 13, 2006, 12:02:28 pm »

Quote

I guess they want much more then it's worth...

Well The URL Actually Could Be Worth the Price...

Lets Say That Users Are Using FreeDB With Other Programs. And J River Took It Over. Not only Does The URL Generate Web Traffic But J River Could Use This To Maybe Push Users Off There Current Program Onto J Rivers. Media Center.

If The Offer Was $1000 And off by a factor of 20.

$20,000 \ $39.98 = J River Would Need To Sell 501 Copies of Media Center To Brake Even After that It Would Be Gravy.

If Done that Way It Could Be A Early Christmas For J River.

Fex · « **Reply #36 on:** July 13, 2006, 02:57:01 pm »

Quote from: KingSparta on July 13, 2006, 12:02:28 pm

...If The Offer Was $1000...

Sorry, but this offer would be absurd.

I would buy it myself whithout thinking one second. Whitout any background at all.
Forget it.

Fex

dcwebman · « **Reply #37 on:** July 13, 2006, 03:02:24 pm »

Quote from: Fex on July 13, 2006, 02:57:01 pm

I would buy it myself whithout thinking one second. Whitout any background at all.

I was thinking the same thing. My guess is that the offer might have been $10,000 which means they wanted $200,000. That would be more in line with what I would guess, but who knows unless you make an offer.

newsposter · « **Reply #38 on:** July 14, 2006, 10:39:24 am »

Ok, so if JR was willing to pay X to acquire the domain freedb.org and the asking price was 20X, then it makes sense to spend X internally to integrate the current freedb.org database into yadb.

JR could even implement the freedb protocols at a new url, maybe something like yadb.com/freedb [port:whatever]. Set up the server to give search and bandwidth priorities to requests that come from a registered copy of Media Center, any other users get 'slower' service.

Sustaining the freedb.org protocols could be as simple as opening a new sourceforge project and depositing the current source tarballs.

Another thought; how about opening up a sourceforge project for a software package that implements yadb, freedb, and cddb protocols in a combined module? Something like that might get a load of attention.

At the end of the day, it's data projects like this that Google is snapping up left and right. Not to say that Google wouldn't be a good on-going steward of the data. However, as 'data consolidators' they are starting to scare me with the sheer volume of info and the high-speed cress referencing capabilities they've built. All it would take is for Google to add a another field or three in their databases and suddenly they are tracking a significant percentage of the data exchanges made on the internet identifyable by the individual, IP address, and date/time.

KingSparta · « **Reply #39 on:** July 14, 2006, 01:33:57 pm »

I guess it is not true that he wanted to keep it free since he is now using the domain name as a chip in a music poker land.

Ante up, And Who Called?

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Freedb closing down (Read 9811 times)