Topic: New Feature -- Notes (Read 8638 times)

edbro · « **on:** October 23, 2009, 05:18:50 pm »

[Edit by JimH]
Build 111 has a new feature. It's a "Notes" section in the tree. You will have to enable it in Options/General/Advanced/Features to see it. It's meant for lists of simple notes. It's still a work in progress.

For an introduction to this feature, please see this thread ]
[end Edit]

Despite the vast feature set, MC is surprisingly quick. If new features can be added without compromising that then, great. But, I do worry about bloat when I see things like this. I bought Media Center for media. There are already hundreds of notes software available. In fact, Windows 7 has sticky notes built in. Personally, I rely on Evernote and Outlook on my smartphone.

Too many of the software greats have become less than great due to bloat (Nero, ACDSee, etc)

Marty3d · « **Reply #1 on:** October 23, 2009, 05:26:27 pm »

Not booing... but thinking that your priorities are somewhere where they shouldn't be.

Notes/lists software. To be able to compete with others, you need to include syncing to mobile phones (not just iPhone!), store on the net (Remember The Milk?), Sidebar gadget, collaboration etc., but most of all, ask the question: Why would users want to lock themself into MC for taking notes and creating lists?

But hey, good luck and if you let me disable it and hide it like other plugins, go for it!

gappie · « **Reply #2 on:** October 23, 2009, 05:28:14 pm »

well... ofcourse when you guys think its fun and can sell it.. but its a bit of an executive kind of thing for me, and those guys put it in there blackberrrys or just tell it there secretaries. or just a plaything, always think its funny, all those shoppinglist in outlook.

on the other hand, when the notes could also be linked to other items in the database.

for instance, i use mc to organize my studio files.. sound files, pdf's, midi, etc, and sometimes i need to do things with those files that i write down on paper, when i could make a note and also connect that to those files... and even more fancy, connect it to an artist, album etc. now that would be very sweet..

maybe an export to the blackberry could be an additional option.. or a plugin, with a blackberry price.

looking forward to testing it anyway..

gab

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** October 23, 2009, 05:32:59 pm »

Quote from: Marty3d on October 23, 2009, 05:26:27 pm

Notes/lists software. To be able to compete with others, you need to include syncing to mobile phones (not just iPhone!), store on the net (Remember The Milk?), Sidebar gadget, collaboration etc., but most of all, ask the question: Why would users want to lock themself into MC for taking notes and creating lists?

It might also sync to a USB driver or a portable media player.

You wouldn't be locked in. It will export to csv and to txt in a coming version.

It imported my google contacts without problems. It's nice to a backup I can access quickly.

rick.ca · « **Reply #4 on:** October 23, 2009, 10:38:04 pm »

This is almost as cool and geeky as Benchmarking!

But it needs something to make it more functional in connection with the media database. Adding a tool for managing contacts in MC is silly. Adding a flexible tool for making and collecting notes about media—that can also be used for contacts or anything else—is a great idea. With this in mind, a few suggestions...

1. As for media, notes can be tagged using categories defined in the library. It seems the available categories are restricted to those for the data media type. Why not allow any existing category to be used for organizing notes? To illustrate: I might want to record description of the Styles I use to categorize my music. I can organize those notes by Genre (because it's allowed for data), but not Style (because it's for audio only).

2. Since categories are available for organizing notes, it would be nice if importing to them was supported. The import routine could still put all data in the note field, but also add data to categories where field headers in the CSV file match existing categories. Even better, add the option to exclude category data from the note itself.

3. Provide some means of synchronizing notes in a split view to records selected in a media view. Assuming it would be Name that would be synchronized, there would need to be a setting for specifying which media file category to sync to. Then a split view could be used to display a style description, artist bio, year's top 100 (or whatever) for the file currently selected.

4. If synchronizing notes is not feasible, there should at least be a convenient way to search notes (again, in a split media/notes view). Maybe that can be done by adding "Search notes for [value]" to a context menu, although the context would have to be for a particular category in a file record, not the entire record. $:-\$

rjm · « **Reply #5 on:** October 24, 2009, 02:50:18 am »

I might use it for...
- documenting my MC design (for example, file naming conventions for various media types)
- keeping lists of media that I want to add to my collection (being able to imbed a url in a note would be helpful for this)
- reminders on things I need to clean up in the library
- expressions that I have created or borrowed and found useful in the past
- networked media configuration notes
- torrent abbreviation glossary

marko · « **Reply #6 on:** October 24, 2009, 04:10:09 am »

I had a quick look at this before rolling back:

I exported my outlook contacts to a CSV file and imported it as notes....

I now have a long list of contacts in "Notes" and would rather have all my contacts nested under a collapsible "contacts" grouping, as any new notes that are added are slotting in amongst the contacts making things untidy already...

Click-able URLs in notes is a good idea too

-marko.

rick.ca · « **Reply #7 on:** October 24, 2009, 04:36:30 am »

Quote

I exported my outlook contacts to a CSV file and imported it as notes...

This is the first thing I did, and recognized the same problem. So I tagged them all "Contacts" using the Grouping field. With that, I can keep different kinds of notes separate by sorting. I was thinking grouping and sorting options (as for media file views) could be added, but collapsible fields would be more appropriate.

gappie · « **Reply #8 on:** October 24, 2009, 05:05:11 am »

or maybe a way to make views under the notes.. like one with the contacts. just like everywhere in the tree.

i just made a view for the notes in Theater View, actually can be nice to get a phonenumber from the couch.

edit.. it would also be nice if a note can be opened from otherplaces in the db.. now you have to open the tag window..

Edit II: can only say it is very sweet. contacts from the couch. my wife gonna love this. im enjoying myself even more than with the benchmark stuff. and i agree with most points rick says at the top. it will be interesting to see how this develops further, and i hope it will stay as part of mc.. would already miss it..

MrHaugen · « **Reply #9 on:** October 24, 2009, 06:17:42 am »

I can see a few uses of this, but I'm also concerned for some of the things that Marty3d mentions. If this is done right, there have to be a lot of sync options and sidebars etc to make it any good. I'm afraid that this project can take up a lot of your time that can be spend on other things that really need attention. Not something that 2 users have asked for over the last year

gappie · « **Reply #10 on:** October 24, 2009, 06:44:32 am »

Quote from: rick.ca on October 24, 2009, 04:36:30 am

This is the first thing I did, and recognized the same problem. So I tagged them all "Contacts" using the Grouping field. With that, I can keep different kinds of notes separate by sorting. I was thinking grouping and sorting options (as for media file views) could be added, but collapsible fields would be more appropriate.

actually, mc puts 'contact' in the keywords.

on an other note

i added images to contacts.. works. but when importing an update from the contact files the lookup from coverart directory does not.
since the image is saved as for instance Data - gappie, it could be nice when it would find new notes with the same name and add the thumb...

ah well. bit freakish i guess

gab

JimH · « **Reply #11 on:** October 24, 2009, 06:49:21 am »

Quote from: marko on October 24, 2009, 04:10:09 am

I exported my outlook contacts to a CSV file and imported it as notes....

I now have a long list of contacts in "Notes" and would rather have all my contacts nested under a collapsible "contacts" grouping, as any new notes that are added are slotting in amongst the contacts making things untidy already...

I think you're correct that it needs user designated divisions. Thanks for the feedback.

JimH · « **Reply #12 on:** October 24, 2009, 06:57:18 am »

Quote from: rjm on October 24, 2009, 02:50:18 am

I might use it for...
- documenting my MC design (for example, file naming conventions for various media types)
- keeping lists of media that I want to add to my collection (being able to imbed a url in a note would be helpful for this)
- reminders on things I need to clean up in the library
- expressions that I have created or borrowed and found useful in the past
- networked media configuration notes
- torrent abbreviation glossary

That's a very interesting list. And not unreasonable (eventually).

rick.ca · « **Reply #13 on:** October 24, 2009, 12:46:08 pm »

Quote from: gappie on October 24, 2009, 06:44:32 am

actually, mc puts 'contact' in the keywords.

Unfortunately, it does this for anything that is imported. I'd much rather have control over this so I could, for example, map Outlook Categories to MC Keywords.

You've provided several good examples of what might be a good design premise for this. Make it do whatever a knowledgeable user would expect it to do based on features existing elsewhere in the program. Like multiple views, associated images, categories, etc.

neFAST · « **Reply #14 on:** October 24, 2009, 02:51:32 pm »

Quote

If it sticks, we'll provide keywords and sync to another copy. We may provide backup to THE CLOUD (aka The Internet).

If you add that, no doubts i'll use it!

JimH · « **Reply #15 on:** October 24, 2009, 03:59:25 pm »

Not a lot to see yet, but here's what it looks like (image attached). The pane on the right can be edited. Import of an ascii text file is under "Tools".

raym · « **Reply #16 on:** October 24, 2009, 05:34:22 pm »

Notes in a Media Center app? Bizarre! A feature I care not for but no probs coz I can disable it. What I've liked about MC all these years is that it does media and it does it well. Notes, syncing, backups.... I've got a heap of other dedicated apps for this. But hey, good on you for doing what you want!

rick.ca · « **Reply #17 on:** October 24, 2009, 05:53:58 pm »

Quote

I've got a heap of other dedicated apps for this.

We should use a separate app to keep notes about our media? Bizarre!

bwaldron · « **Reply #18 on:** October 24, 2009, 06:02:50 pm »

Quote from: rick.ca on October 24, 2009, 05:53:58 pm

We should use a separate app to keep notes about our media? Bizarre!

Seems like the concept is much broader than notes about media.

rick.ca · « **Reply #19 on:** October 24, 2009, 06:16:37 pm »

I hope so. I like things like this to be flexible and functional—so I can adapt it to whatever my needs are.

leezer3 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 24, 2009, 06:27:25 pm »

Interesting idea, although TBQH as I've said before this is a distraction from the primary media focus IMHO.

Having said that, can I query whether there are any plans to let us add rich text any time soon?
If I'm going to use this, I'd want rich text and preferably custom (Code) highlighters to boot

-Leezer-

JimH · « **Reply #21 on:** October 24, 2009, 06:38:02 pm »

Quote from: leezer3 on October 24, 2009, 06:27:25 pm

Interesting idea, although TBQH as I've said before this is a distraction from the primary media focus IMHO.

Having said that, can I query whether there are any plans to let us add rich text any time soon?
If I'm going to use this, I'd want rich text and preferably custom (Code) highlighters to boot

-Leezer-

I'm reminded of a guy I talked to when I was first thinking about starting a software business. He said, "Don't do it. Here's why ....." and when he finished laying out all the reasons that it was a bad idea, he said, "But if you want to do it, here's how......"

Thanks for a laugh.

leezer3 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 24, 2009, 07:14:54 pm »

I can but try

Seriously though, I'll give my opinion on anything new you add, and I'll even use them when they fit into my plans.
I'm not willing to compromise on what I consider to be the 'best' way though, even though this isn't the way anyone else does things

Provide me with a better way to do things and I'll happily use it, but I'm not willing to compromise on what I feel I need

Finally, wandering completely and utterly O/T, but have you ever considered a complete 'suite' of applications? Run everything off the back of the existing database engine, and you could build a complete DE replacement- Use the main core of MC for Explorer replacement and media playback duties (Would obviously require tweaks to move into the file manager arena), shift this new 'notes' idea into an Outlook analog, add a torrent client and office applications and you'd get something I'd pay pretty major bucks for.
MC's biggest strength is it's database, and actually applying that systemwide could produce something pretty special. That requires moving away from the Media Player focus though, and I've got not idea what would happen.

-Leezer-

rick.ca · « **Reply #23 on:** October 24, 2009, 07:43:51 pm »

Quote

have you ever considered a complete 'suite' of applications?

If a simple note facility is a "distraction," what would this be?

Don't forget the Mac version.

Daydream · « **Reply #24 on:** October 24, 2009, 07:49:40 pm »

Prepare a strong defense when MC will also order pizza - 'cause I'll argue for a moment that the application is drifting, instead of breaking new ground.

darichman · « **Reply #25 on:** October 24, 2009, 09:50:18 pm »

Kinda neat - in all honesty though, I can't see myself using this a whole lot unless there's some way to link with other media already in the database. I think Rick is on the right track...

rjm · « **Reply #26 on:** October 24, 2009, 09:56:49 pm »

Quote from: darichman on October 24, 2009, 09:50:18 pm

Kinda neat - in all honesty though, I can't see myself using this a whole lot unless there's some way to link with other media already in the database. I think Rick is on the right track...

Yes, I would love a better way to view info notes associated with albums.

rick.ca · « **Reply #27 on:** October 25, 2009, 12:30:09 am »

But it can handle much more than notes. Consider the attached illustration for Artist information. Along with a biography saved as a note, you can save as much data as you like in an "Artist database" (I'm using the Grouping field to indicate a record type=Artist). That's particularly useful for list information (as illustrated), but also things like years active, location, etc. The same thing can be done for anything—albums, contacts, movie actors, photo albums...

darichman · « **Reply #28 on:** October 25, 2009, 05:08:56 am »

Quote from: rick.ca on October 25, 2009, 12:30:09 am

But it can handle much more than notes. Consider the attached illustration for Artist information. Along with a biography saved as a note, you can save as much data as you like in an "Artist database" (I'm using the Grouping field to indicate a record type=Artist). That's particularly useful for list information (as illustrated), but also things like years active, location, etc. The same thing can be done for anything—albums, contacts, movie actors, photo albums...

That looks really great actually... I'll have to figure out a way to get data from files in the database over to the notes section - at the moment I have bios, notes etc stored in various custom fields with the files.

I would love to see the library proper be able to query the 'notes' section in some way. Eg I'm listening to The Beatles - and the Artist note is just a click away. Same goes for movies etc.

gappie · « **Reply #29 on:** October 25, 2009, 05:33:24 am »

Quote from: rick.ca on October 25, 2009, 12:30:09 am

But it can handle much more than notes. Consider the attached illustration for Artist information. Along with a biography saved as a note, you can save as much data as you like in an "Artist database" (I'm using the Grouping field to indicate a record type=Artist). That's particularly useful for list information (as illustrated), but also things like years active, location, etc. The same thing can be done for anything—albums, contacts, movie actors, photo albums...

now i understand why you used the r-word. nice. there is indeed already a lot possible.

gab

Peter_T · « **Reply #30 on:** October 26, 2009, 07:24:47 am »

Quote from: rjm on October 24, 2009, 02:50:18 am

I might use it for...
- documenting my MC design (for example, file naming conventions for various media types)
- keeping lists of media that I want to add to my collection (being able to imbed a url in a note would be helpful for this)
- reminders on things I need to clean up in the library

Great thoughts... I like it.

dcwebman · « **Reply #31 on:** October 26, 2009, 07:28:09 am »

Ready for a bug(?)? I created a note and then went to the Name column to rename it as "Another name". It changed and then immediately went back to the first line in the note. The Names really need to be able to be different.

rick.ca · « **Reply #32 on:** October 26, 2009, 01:32:06 pm »

I assume this is by design—so one can edit the first line of their note, and Name will update. But I agree, the first line should only be used as the default Name—just as the file name is the default for media files. In many cases, I'd rather the first line of the note not be the name. For notes used primarily in Theatre View, for example, I probably want to display Name formatted as a title followed by the note—and don't want the it repeated in the note.

Alex B · « **Reply #33 on:** October 26, 2009, 07:40:00 pm »

I too am reporting the name issue:

I created a new note. Its contents are:

If(IsEmpty([Disc #],1), [track #], CD[Disc #] - [track #]) - If(IsEqual([Album Type], Multiple Artists /(complete/), 1), [Artist] - [Name], [Name])

Unfortunately also its name is:

If(IsEmpty([Disc #],1), [track #], CD[Disc #] - [track #]) - If(IsEqual([Album Type], Multiple Artists /(complete/), 1), [Artist] - [Name], [Name])

I'd prefer something like "Filename Rule", but I can't change the name. It always reverts to the above string. Apparently the name is always the first line of the content (up to the first carriage return character).

MC 14.0.90

dcwebman · « **Reply #34 on:** October 27, 2009, 07:19:33 am »

I still don't see a need for storing contacts in MC but I do now see a use for the Notes. There are many times when I get a good idea off the forums here and so far they are sitting in either emails I send myself or files on my computer. Yeah, definitely would be better to store them in MC where I can easily keep track of them.

dcwebman · « **Reply #35 on:** October 27, 2009, 07:30:34 am »

Some comments:
Are these notes stored in separate files or just in the library? I didn't think they were separate files but see an inconsistency. If I delete a note by right-clicking on the name and selecting Delete, I'll get a simple prompt if I'm sure I want to delete. However if I press the Delete key on it, I'll get the normal Confirm Action dialog about wanting to remove just from the library, send to the recycle bin, etc. I'm thinking I shouldn't be seeing that dialog.

If I go to the Tag window, I'll see the name as JRNOTE - Unknown Duration - Unknown File Size. Probably should be just JRNOTE.

If I hover over the note in the Notes window, I'll see <unknown album>. ?

If I simply Add Note instead of doing an import, why does it get put in the Recently Imported playlist? Just something else I need to clean up from that list.

If you go to the Tag window for a note, it seems like you can enter the Notes field there. Not the case.

rick.ca · « **Reply #36 on:** October 27, 2009, 01:55:51 pm »

Quote

Are these notes stored in separate files or just in the library?

I'm sure they're just in the library. This observation isn't of much use, but it sort of looks like this was implemented by "tricking" the rest of the program into "thinking" notes are files. That's good in that it makes a lot of familiar functionality (like tagging) instantly available. But it also makes for some UI oddness. I assume these are things that just need to be "cleaned up" (e.g., bypassing the standard file delete dialog).

Quote

If you go to the Tag window for a note, it seems like you can enter the Notes field there. Not the case.

Yes, that one's a bit ugly. The tooltip even says "click to edit" and it appears to accept the edit, but changes aren't saved. People used to tagging with the Tag window are probably going to expect to be able to edit notes from there.

park · « **Reply #37 on:** October 27, 2009, 11:43:36 pm »

I'd jump to this feature if there were an iphone app for it. Not something I'd be willing to load vmware fusion, and boot into windows for though.

dcwebman · « **Reply #38 on:** October 28, 2009, 08:31:11 am »

Quote from: park on October 27, 2009, 11:43:36 pm

I'd jump to this feature if there were an iphone app for it.

Isn't there an app for everything?

I know I would really like some kind of MC iPhone app.

CadErik · « **Reply #39 on:** October 28, 2009, 02:11:04 pm »

Quote from: edbro on October 23, 2009, 05:18:50 pm

Personally, I rely on Evernote and Outlook on my smartphone.

How about an evernote integration? The notes in MC are the same concept but evernote has gone a long way...

Erik.

park · « **Reply #40 on:** October 28, 2009, 09:52:20 pm »

I'm itching to ditch evernote. It's impossible to browse tags with it. The other prerequisite for using the mc version would be the ability to import evernote notes I guess.

tunetyme · « **Reply #41 on:** October 29, 2009, 06:02:46 am »

I have a question about clipnotes. If I used them to store bio info on a group would it automatically link to each song by that group?

JimH · « **Reply #42 on:** October 29, 2009, 06:55:16 am »

Quote from: tunetyme on October 29, 2009, 06:02:46 am

I have a question about clipnotes. If I used them to store bio info on a group would it automatically link to each song by that group?

Not at this time. We're thinking about how to approach this.

rick.ca · « **Reply #43 on:** October 29, 2009, 02:33:08 pm »

Quote from: rick.ca on October 23, 2009, 10:38:04 pm

3. Provide some means of synchronizing notes in a split view to records selected in a media view. Assuming it would be Name that would be synchronized, there would need to be a setting for specifying which media file category to sync to. Then a split view could be used to display a style description, artist bio, year's top 100 (or whatever) for the file currently selected.

After playing with this a bit, I think there may be a more versatile way to link or synchronize notes to media records. That would be to use the same category in Notes to specify the desired link to media records. A setting in the media view configuration would specify, "link [category] to Notes." So, for example, Artist in a music record would link to Artist in a Notes where a bio could be recorded. This is the sort of setting that might be changed frequently, so it should be included in the view tab drop down menu (i.e., a "Link Notes to..." collapsing menu, like "Group by...").

This would require, of course, that categories in Notes not be restricted to the "data" type. It would take a little more work to create notes with a separate linking category, but this would allow a variety of different kinds of linkages to be used. Music to artist notes, photos to album notes, movies to director notes, etc. Another possibility would be a "link [category] to Notes [category]" setting in the media view. The Notes [category] could default to Name, be set to the same category in Notes (per my suggestion) or to any category.

I would expect this synchronization to Notes would slow down a media view, so the default link should be "none." Also, I would hope it would be smart enough to suspend any linking that may be set if the Notes view is not visible.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #44 on:** October 30, 2009, 03:18:57 am »

Me like the sound of this. If single notes can be linked to several media files, this could be really useful. Plot, Synopsis/Reviews, Bios etc etc. This could very well be the solution of some of the problems regarding Theater View info pane for series and season plot, among other things. I'm just curious who this could be handled. Some sort of notes url pointing from the file tags perhaps?

Mmmmmmm, notes........ *drooling like Homer*

JimH · « **Reply #45 on:** November 04, 2009, 06:02:43 pm »

GrantDG,
I moved your posts to a new thread here. Let me know what topic you want and I'll change it.

JimH · « **Reply #46 on:** November 04, 2009, 06:04:04 pm »

Build 14.0.94 can import your Google contacts. Export to Google is not far behind.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: New Feature -- Notes (Read 8638 times)