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[minolotus]

In the theatre view I have a library item “genre” and the list style is set to big images with the genre caption below the image. MC shows as image a cover of a random movie belonging to the respective genre.  This looks nice but in this context the images are not very meaningful because a movie could belong to more than one genre. Further if you own more than a few movies it becomes difficult to connect the image with a genre. Therefore, the images are not really helpful and you need to read the captions under the images to find the genre searched for.

I think it would be a nice feature if – similar to the artists – genres (and maybe other customer fields) could be assigned with images. An individual image for a genre would be much more meaningful than a random cover from a movie and the user could find the relevant genre faster without reading the captions.

[rick.ca]

Where would the images come from?

I prefer to use the "row of covers" List Style. Doing so removes any ambiguity about what might be included in the Genre (or whatever). And it's essentially automatic—whereas your suggestion would require some degree of configuration and customization.

[minolotus]

… whereas your suggestion would require some degree of configuration and customization.

I agree but I think this shouldn't be a big deal. I need to do the same steps for my TV shows because I have for each episode a screen shot as image but I want to show in my "TV show" library items a cover or poster of the TV show instead of a random screen shot. Therefore I use the artist field to store and connect the covers with the TV shows. The only thing I have to do when adding a new TV show is to save a cover from the internet and copy the file into the image/artist folder. This is done in less than a minute.

If the genre field would have the same ability as the artist field (without the automatic download) the configuration should be done within a couple of minutes. You just need to find some suitable images from the internet or your personnel collection and rename the files so the name matches the respective genre and copy the files to (e.g.) image/genre folder. However, if you don't want to use this feature and therefore MC could not find matching images in the image folder, it would show a random movie or TV show image (similar to the current behaviour regarding the artist field).

Adding such a feature would have no disadvantage for users who don't want to use this. But on the other hand if you like it, MC would have an additional feature to customise the theatre view to your personnel requirements.

[rick.ca]

I agree but I think this shouldn't be a big deal.

Neither do I, which is why I characterized it as "some degree." But it's probably too much for most users. I'm just pointing out there is a strong attraction to anything that "just works" without having to do anything further. So, for example...

Therefore I use the artist field to store and connect the covers with the TV shows.

I've been thinking of trying this, but my current system works okay. I use a dummy file to get series data (including a poster) from PVD via PvdImport. I know others would not agree, but I find the series posters stand out just fine—due to the different aspects of the episode screen shots...



(The anal-me does wish they consistently appeared either first or last in the list.) And since I favour this List Style, getting the series poster as an artist image doesn't really add anything. As I've mentioned, there's no ambiguity—visual or otherwise—in the identification of series, and the thumbnails give an indication of the number of episodes available.

Another consideration is the availability of backdrops. Although there's no direct connection, and we currently have them only for series, I find they lessen my desire even further for series thumbnails. I'd rather just proceed to an episode list on a nice backdrop. And now that I have that, I wish I could remove the poster from the list view (it's redundant and obscures the backdrop). But the best thing about backdrops is they're just there (and a variety of them) without me having to do anything.

I have no objection to your suggestion, and would welcome it's availability—particularly in a generalized form. I'm just pointing out there are other ways of doing things, and would like to encourage the development of the "it just works" features of Theatre View. Like TMDb backdrops for movies!

[minolotus]

Before I switched to my current system, I also used the “row of covers” list style. I wasn’t very happy with that because I have episodes from around 70 TV shows and it took some time to scroll down the entire list. Now, I have the covers of all TV shows on two screens which is very brain-friendly as I don’t need any more to memorise the TV shows spotted in the long list style  However, the disadvantage of using the artist field is that it is most likely not possible to change the caption of the covers without losing the artist image as cover. It works fine in the standard view with the “thumbnail text” option. But for the theatre view I couldn’t find a way to get it done. 

I have no objection to your suggestion, and would welcome it's availability—particularly in a generalized form. I'm just pointing out there are other ways of doing things, and would like to encourage the development of the "it just works" features of Theatre View. Like TMDb backdrops for movies! Wink

I fully agree, backdrops for movie would be great. And regarding my idea with the genre images: Since this post is not overcrowded with users shouting “We want this”, I will put this on my “I would like it and suggested it – hype failed to appear – success postponed – next attempt in 2012”-list 

One question concerning your screen shot: How did you manage to get the stars in the caption? I tried this for my file info panel but didn’t find a solution for that.

[rick.ca]

I wasn’t very happy with that because I have episodes from around 70 TV shows and it took some time to scroll down the entire list.

Lacking unique thumbnails for categories would not have prevented you from adding [Genres] and [Series] to make navigating such a selection easier.

How did you manage to get the stars in the caption?

Unfortunately, there's only one Caption setting (under "Advanced" in Options). This is mine...

Code: [Select]

If(IsEqual([.Flag],),,✘)If(IsEqual([Series.movie], Pending), RemoveRight(Right([Filename],7),4) [Series] • If(IsEqual([Season], 1), premiering, returning) [s.Returning], If(IsEqual([Series.movie], Final Episodes), [Series] /([Year] - Left([Viewed],4)/), If(IsEqual([Episode.], .series), [Series], If(IsEqual([Type.], Pilot Episode), Pilot: [Name], If(IsEqual(Left([Episode.], 1), S), SPadNumber([Season],2) EPadNumber([Episode],2) [Name], If(IsEqual([Type.], Final Episode), Final: SPadNumber([Season],2) EPadNumber([Episode],2) [Name], [Name])))))) Mid(★★★★★,0,[Rating])  If(IsInPlayingNow(),♪,)
Don't ask me how it works. I experiment in a Standard View expression column, then cut & paste the code.

[glynor]

Another consideration is the availability of backdrops. Although there's no direct connection, and we currently have them only for series, I find they lessen my desire even further for series thumbnails. I'd rather just proceed to an episode list on a nice backdrop. And now that I have that, I wish I could remove the poster from the list view (it's redundant and obscures the backdrop). But the best thing about backdrops is they're just there (and a variety of them) without me having to do anything.

I agree, Rick.

Nice screenshot, by the way.  What do you use to get the time up into the upper-left corner, and can I also put the name of the currently loaded Library there?

[minolotus]

Code: [Select]

If(IsEqual([.Flag],),,✘)If(IsEqual([Series.movie], Pending), RemoveRight(Right([Filename],7),4) [Series] • If(IsEqual([Season], 1), premiering, returning) [s.Returning], If(IsEqual([Series.movie], Final Episodes), [Series] /([Year] - Left([Viewed],4)/), If(IsEqual([Episode.], .series), [Series], If(IsEqual([Type.], Pilot Episode), Pilot: [Name], If(IsEqual(Left([Episode.], 1), S), SPadNumber([Season],2) EPadNumber([Episode],2) [Name], If(IsEqual([Type.], Final Episode), Final: SPadNumber([Season],2) EPadNumber([Episode],2) [Name], [Name])))))) Mid(★★★★★,0,[Rating])  If(IsInPlayingNow(),♪,)
Thank you very much. My problem was that I couldn't find a way to put special characters into the fields. I tried special characters from wingdings but that didn't work. Therefore I falsely assumed that special characters couldn't be used at all. But copy and paste from your expression gave me the hint that the characters from MS Minchow are shown propper in the fields. Now I could replace my former rating symbols ● and ◌ by  ★ and ☆ which is much nicer.

Thanks.

[rick.ca]

Nice screenshot, by the way.  What do you use to get the time up into the upper-left corner, and can I also put the name of the currently loaded Library there?

Thanks. See Theater View and Zone Info & Time. I don't know if [Library] is a valid variable.

[flac.rules]

I would also like to have some way to show "series"-pictures instead of just thumbnails from the individuel episodes. The default-sickbeard-setup encourages this by adding a folder-jpg in the Seson-folder. I guess I would like MC to do a today if there is no folder.jpg, and use folder.jpg if its there. Or eventually do as today as default, and let it be configured somehow. (in other words "images for series", in the same way as "images for genres")

[minolotus]

It is possible to get separate “TV show” images. But for this it is necessary to do some customising. You need to do the following steps:
•   Fill the “artist” field of each episode with the name of the TV show.
•   Rename the TV show image so that its name matches exactly the entry in the artist field
•   Copy the images into the “... \J River\Image\Artists” folder.
If you want to use the images in standard view, you need to build a view by categories and show as category the artist field.
For the theatre view you have to use the artist filed instead of the “series” field.

[csimon]

Where would the images come from?

A configurable attribute on the list style for the menu level to define where the image comes from. For example

"Cover Art" (displays the image that is normally associated with the item in the database or the fanned one that MC automatically generates)
"File from Tag" (displays the image from an actual file in a directory such as <MCRoot>\CustomImages\Genre\<genre>.jpg where MC will know to use the current value of the Genre category to find an image that the user has already designated for each genre)

In this generic way, you could have custom user-defined images for absolutely any tag you want, including Album Artist, fancy large A-Z letters for when you have a menu level grouped alphabetically.

[rick.ca]

A configurable attribute on the list style for the menu level to define where the image comes from.

That's not what I meant. I understand how it might be made configurable. But where would the images come from? Artist images are automatically downloaded from the Internet. I don't know of any similar sources for Genre images. I would find it more trouble than it's worth building my own collection of genre images. The current systems works because it provides a clear indication of what a category is—by showing thumbnails of the files it actually contains.

Maybe the developers would be moved to action if users provided the Genre (and other category) images. We could easily share them using Pix01.

[csimon]

OK, I see what you mean, but I have no problem in sourcing my own images for genres rather than having dictated ones!   Also, if indeed the configuration could apply to any level, not just genre or artist (or album artist), then users would be able to supply their own images for any non-standard category that they have - e.g. I have categories for Studio Album, CD single, 12" single, 7" single, Live Albums, Compilations.... also Theme Park Music, Music Videos.  It would be so much nicer than just seeing a blank folder icon or a fanned generated composite image that doesn't really represent what the category is.

If there was a way of second-guessing some of the images, for genres for example, so that MC could indeed find its own images from somewhere, then that would simply be a third option in the configuration:

"Cover Art" (the image associated with the file in the database, or a fanned composite image of items below the level)
"File from Tag" (user-supplied images for the value of the category)
"Guess from web" (MC-generated images for the value of the category)

or something along those lines.

The principle is that at least the facility is there if we want to use it.

[csimon]

Oh, I'd also like to add that if this feature were implemented, I'd like it to be implemented across all the views, not just Theater View, i.e. Client view and DLNA as well.

[rick.ca]

The principle is that at least the facility is there if we want to use it.

I'm withholding my support until I've had a chance to evaluate the genre-image collection you're going to provide us with.

To be fair, I suppose some categories would be easy. Video Type because the list is short (e.g., Feature, Documentary, Animation, Performance, Series, Short). Countries and languages can be represented by flags. But these aren't necessarily useful as categories. For example, I like to be able to select English versus Foreign Language, but I'm not going to select a foreign language film based on which foreign language it's in. In all cases, I'll be reading English subtitles. Hmm. Okay, given what you're proposing, an "English flag" (I'm confident you can provide me with one of those) would be displayed for one and a set of fanned flags for the other.

[Daydream]

My 2 cents:
- I'm always happy to see more graphics. In this case though... I prefer Genre to be a list, a searchable item or anything in between that remains text.
- everywhere I've seen this Genre graphic implemented (XBMC), the users supplied they're own graphic collections (and as far as I know there are not many). But in case of MC and its ever-configurable fields structure I don't know if we can reach an agreement as to how many genres are there. Therefore one collection that is good for user X is not complete enough for user Y. If we reach the conclusion that everybody has to make their own collection, we can forget about this.

Me and rick I believe we went a couple of times head to head about more graphics/less graphics/meaning of graphics. My feeling is that MC's Theater view has a more pyramidal structure than other MCs -> you have to dig through more levels to get somewhere (well, I know some of you could come up with crazy Theater view structures that would take care of that), then this navigation by a lot of layers of graphics becomes tiresome. Video Type -> Flags, then Language -> Flags, then Genre -> Flags, then say Movies with Posters and background. "What did I wanna do here?!"

The situation would be different if all those flags are in one view -> the movie has all those flags on one page and the dbase fields they represent would be searchable in Theater View. I'm not sure if you have the mental image that I have, but I guess at least the Theater View display would have to be changed a bit.

[csimon]

I'm withholding my support until I've had a chance to evaluate the genre-image collection you're going to provide us with.

Cheeky!

In my case, my genre list is quite small.  Although MP3s can come tagged with all sorts of genres, my Genre menu has a filter that only displays Ambient/New Age, Country, Folk, Folk-Rock, Christmas, Blues, Theme Park Music, as those are the only genres that I'm interested in looking for.  I'm sure I could fairly easily come up with suitable icons for those.

Having the configurability doesn't break anything for those who don't want to supply their own icons, but does make menus easier to navigate for those who do. As I said, the principle is that the facility is there if we want to use it.

DLNA is also an issue.  For example, if you're using a media player client such as the WD TV Live, you have the option to put it into text mode or graphics mode.  But in graphics mode, captions are not displayed on each image, only when you roll over one. So if you haven't got any images for a category, you just get a screenful of blank folder icons with no indication of what they are.  Even if they were a random album cover belonging to that category, as the OP has stated this doesn't really represent the category very well.  And if you couldn't find suitable icons for a category, at the very least you could create a graphic with the text inside it. For example if you have a group-by-1 item so that it creates a menu of A-Z folders, you could have 26 graphics each with a big letter inside.

I've noticed that MC does indeed provide its own icons over DLNA for the top level categories such as Audio, Movies, Images (although I don't think all of them work) however if I rename the categories to something I prefer, such as Music, Video, Photos, then MC doesn't recognise them and the images disappear!

[rick.ca]

The situation would be different if all those flags are in one view -> the movie has all those flags on one page and the dbase fields they represent would be searchable in Theater View.

Yes, we beat that one to death. And I think it's safe to say we're not going to see such a radical change in the architecture of the navigation system.

Theater view has a more pyramidal structure than other MCs -> you have to dig through more levels to get somewhere (well, I know some of you could come up with crazy Theater view structures that would take care of that), then this navigation by a lot of layers of graphics becomes tiresome.

While I can agree there are potential benefits to a fundamentally different architecture, I don't agree with this. Just because it's hierarchical doesn't mean it's "tiresome." To it's credit, Theatre View is highly configurable and it's easy to create a view to suit any circumstance. The problem most of us have is deciding what the circumstance is we want it to suit. If you can make up your mind what you want—and configure a view to do exactly that—then the result cannot be "tiresome." It just is what it is.

While there's nothing wrong with wanting such an option for changing the appearance of categories, I don't think it has much to do with the larger underlying issue of the user creating/configuring views in a manner that works best for them. One of the things I like about Theatre View is the ability to quickly create alternative views I think might work better in different circumstances. Such alternative views can be conveniently placed on the second roller. One of the design elements that goes well with this is the way cover thumbnails are automatically used to represent categories. I use the list style that shows a row of covers. Not only does that provide a caption, but the covers visually convey the number and nature of items in each category, and—if the field has been sufficiently narrowed—the exact contents (assuming some familiarity with the covers). As a result, I normally "find" what I'm looking for (typically, an album or movie my tired old brain can't recall the name of) well before reaching a list.

It's not the same thing, but this combination of hierarchical views and categories represented by covers provides a little of what we were looking for in the alternative designs we were discussing in the past—the ability to filter a list. Using a thumbnail view style or using fixed images to represent categories removes this already limited way we have of relating category selections to list results. While I have no objection to the option, I'm pretty sure I'd find giving this up and the hassle of finding suitable images too tiresome to bear.