Topic: Nvidia Ion playback issues for bluray and live tv (Read 19471 times)

Daveyravey · « **on:** February 05, 2012, 12:49:26 pm »

I am currently trying out the latest MC17 Build 17.082 and I am struggling to get live TV feeds and bluray playing without any stutter or missing frames. Ihaveused Microsoft media center for years but want to use mc17 to allow me to get the best possible picture quality / sound available and so far I am dissapointed that the is programme doesn't appear to play nice using nvidia ion hardware.........

My system is.
Acer nvidia ion revo
4gb memory
60 gb Samsung ssd
64 bit windows 7
Latest drivers etc. Nvidia wdm drivers installed

Tuner card dvb t2 usb
Has anyone got any suggestions what to try to improve playback ..... bearing in mind microsoft mce works fine on both bluray and TV so its something in my settings for MC......

Anyone else have issues with ION hardware?

Hendrik · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2012, 01:06:44 pm »

Did you check "Hardware accelerated video decoding when possible" under the Video settings?

Daveyravey · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2012, 01:16:39 pm »

Yes first thing I did was check hardware accelrated tab.... makes no difference if its checked or unchecked...

gvanbrunt · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2012, 01:55:37 pm »

If you are using HQ settings for video, you may have to change the settings for MadVR to use exclusive mode. I had to do that on mine as it did drop the occasional frame.

That won't help you for live TV though. You need to give a bit more information about what your setup is before anyone can offer some advice.

Daveyravey · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2012, 01:29:29 am »

For live TV i am using a usb DVB T2 tuner card... Its a Hauppauge PCTV Nanostick T2 290e and i will be picking up Freeview HD (in the UK) but again i see jerky video and delayed audio using the default renderers.

Any ideas what settings to use for live tv?

Hendrik · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2012, 02:53:23 am »

I've had some rare reports before that the ION systems are not fast enough for using the CUVID decoder in its highest quality settings, which MC17 seems to default to (granted, its the default settings of the decoder, too)

Its a shame MC17 doesn't let you tweak the codec settings for system-specific needs.
Maybe in RO Std, MC17 should default to having deinterlacing disabled in LAV Video, letting EVR deal with it? That might work better on those systems, performance wise, and shouldn't have any impact on quality if the system is fast enough.

Something Matt or John will have to think about.

@daveyravey1972:
At a suggestion for you, i would recommend upgrading the NVIDIA drivers (if you aren't using an up2date version already)

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2012, 04:45:58 am »

Quote from: daveyravey1972 on February 05, 2012, 12:49:26 pm

I am currently trying out the latest MC17 Build 17.082 and I am struggling to get live TV feeds and bluray playing without any stutter or missing frames. Ihaveused Microsoft media center for years but want to use mc17 to allow me to get the best possible picture quality / sound available and so far I am dissapointed that the is programme doesn't appear to play nice using nvidia ion hardware.........

My system is.
Acer nvidia ion revo
4gb memory
60 gb Samsung ssd
64 bit windows 7
Latest drivers etc. Nvidia wdm drivers installed

Tuner card dvb t2 usb
Has anyone got any suggestions what to try to improve playback ..... bearing in mind microsoft mce works fine on both bluray and TV so its something in my settings for MC......

Anyone else have issues with ION hardware?

I have the same Revo (But Win 7 x32 and no SSD) - I have no issues with playback using RO setting. RO+HQ won't work.

Daveyravey · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2012, 02:21:50 pm »

Thanks for the suggestion just rebuilding a 32 bit image so will update what happens!

Daveyravey · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2012, 12:08:50 pm »

No joy on rebuilding image 32 bit performs the same...stuttery playback for blu ray tv etc
Looks like I need to change some codec settings? Anyone got any suggestions?

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2012, 12:53:44 pm »

Are you streaming over a network? I had some stuttering I thought was MC setting related, but turned out to be a network card setting.
If you are streaming, copy a BD movie to the Ion and see how it plays from the local drive.

Daveyravey · « **Reply #10 on:** February 08, 2012, 01:45:30 pm »

I thought that but live tv play back is also affected ... Its almost as if he CPU is overloaded but I have checked task manager and its running at about 40% im aware ion isn't powerful but as mce runs everything fine this must be a setting issue in jriver....its annoying as I've installed mc on my other htpc and main pc and mc works without an issue

gvanbrunt · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2012, 04:22:20 pm »

Live TV runs different codecs than blu ray so it isn't like comparing apples to apples. We need to take a look at fixing each issue seperatly.

I would copy file file locally and see if it plays ok. Let us know how that goes.

Daveyravey · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2012, 12:20:56 pm »

Running i ripped iso copied on the ssd gives the same results slow motion style playback audio out of sync and stuttering. I did a bench mark pasted below :-

Is this too low for this software....Like i said Media center (microsoft) works fine on live tv bluray etc so i can only assume JRiver isnt the way to go for me!!

== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===

Running 'Math' benchmark...
Single-threaded integer math... 21.886 seconds
Single-threaded floating point math... 13.438 seconds
Multi-threaded integer math... 12.094 seconds
Multi-threaded mixed math... 7.045 seconds
Score: 349

Running 'Image' benchmark...
Image creation / destruction... 10.789 seconds
Flood filling... 2.686 seconds
Direct copying... 4.706 seconds
Small renders... 17.182 seconds
Bilinear rendering... 10.668 seconds
Bicubic rendering... 10.555 seconds
Score: 389

Running 'Database' benchmark...
Create database... 5.025 seconds
Populate database... 11.323 seconds
Save database... 1.308 seconds
Reload database... 0.517 seconds
Search database... 9.849 seconds
Sort database... 7.234 seconds
Group database... 5.443 seconds
Score: 528

JRMark (version 17.0.85): 422

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2012, 02:27:09 pm »

Unfortuantely, you have a seriously underpowered system. Something must be wrong with it. I think an ION should be over JMark 1000. I'll check mine tonight and post back.
My old laptop with me now (Intel T2130 1.8GHz, 1GB ram) is benchmarking:
Math 1011
Image 751
Database 1169
JMark 977.
And I have no stuttering problems with it on RO.

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2012, 03:42:09 pm »

Well, I'm back to eat my words. I just ran Benchmarking on my Revo (Atom 330, 2GB) and it's JMark is about the same as yours - 430.
However, I can playback Blu-ray without stutter, so something else is going on with your setup. Sorry. I thought we were on to something.

gvanbrunt · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2012, 05:39:45 pm »

I'm beginning to wonder what else is eating up the resources. What other software are you running? (that you know of), and have you scanned your system for malware recently.

Daveyravey · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2012, 03:27:44 am »

I rebuild with an image last week thinking it could be a 64 bit issue ( so installed a 32 bit version on Win 7) still the same.. Also my processor usage isnt partcularly high 40-50 %................... Just out of interest what version drivers are you running on your ION for graphics / chipset etc?

cheers

Dave

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2012, 09:57:40 am »

Dave,
Here's what I have: Acer Aspire Revo (model Aspire R3610)

Running Windows 7 64bit. Windows Experience rating 3.3
Drivers: Atom 330 - Windows version 6.1.7600.16385
nVidia Video: 275.33 (I see now version 285.62 is available - so I'll probably try those out)
nVidia (nForce) chipset driver 15.51
Control Panel Settings for Video: Desktop Resoution 1920x1080 60Hz. all other settings = Use Video Player Settings
JRiver 17.0.86 Video = RO. Harware Accelerate when possible. VideoClock = on. Display = Enable Auto Display Settings Changing, FILM (23.976) = 1920x1080x32x23. FILM (24) = 1920x1080x32x24. NTSC = Desktop Setting.
Audio: Direct Sound. Audio Output = nVidia HDMI out. Buffer = .75 Seconds.

No TV Tuner or optical drive. No other software other than JRiver installed. All media is streamed from Server (hardwired network).

Daveyravey · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2012, 10:04:09 am »

OK what i plan to do is a complete rebuild from windows disk to 64bit. I wont install any additional drivers apart from the normal windows updates. I shall just install MC and see what that brings....Im at a loss of what else to try!!
The annoying thing is i am running two other machines with MC and they are fantastic...this is the only thing stopping me biting the bullet and buying a licence... i think i have about 10 days longer to try...

;o)

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2012, 10:24:27 am »

It really shouldn't matter whether you are on x32 or 64 regarding smooth playback.
Good Luck.

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2012, 10:30:44 am »

Quote from: daveyravey1972 on February 11, 2012, 10:04:09 am

OK what i plan to do is a complete rebuild from windows disk to 64bit. I wont install any additional drivers apart from the normal windows updates. I shall just install MC and see what that brings....Im at a loss of what else to try!!
The annoying thing is i am running two other machines with MC and they are fantastic...this is the only thing stopping me biting the bullet and buying a licence... i think i have about 10 days longer to try...

;o)

I would go to nVidia site and downlaod their latest drivers for ION chipset version 15.51 (have them ready for rebuild) and then after your up and running, go back to NVIDIA site use the "find graphics" drivers feature - to be sure to have latest.

Daveyravey · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2012, 11:47:33 am »

Nope no joy again. I'm giving this one up to a compatibility issue with JRiver unless someone can come up with a solution.

gvanbrunt · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2012, 12:48:45 pm »

I would get latest chipset, sound and video drivers direct from manufacturer web sites. That is pretty critical. Drivers in Windows Update are stable but old.

Hansi · « **Reply #23 on:** February 23, 2012, 03:09:24 am »

Hi,

I've the same problem with my Zotac ZBOX ID41 (Atom 525/Nvidia Ion) playing Bluray discs.
The audio is way of sync and some movies are even playing in slow motion.
I've found out it's the video render causing me problems and tried different video renders and with different results (some better than others).
In the wiki it's claimed the LAV Video splitter is installed by MC16 but on my system (MC17) is only Haali splitter installed.

I've found out 1f0.de (http://1f0.de) has created the LAV splitter and a CUVID video render.
I'll try setting it up tonight and post the result.

/Hans

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #24 on:** February 23, 2012, 06:26:54 am »

Quote from: daveyravey1972 on February 11, 2012, 11:47:33 am

Nope no joy again. I'm giving this one up to a compatibility issue with JRiver unless someone can come up with a solution.

Dave, it can't be an MC issue if I can play BDs on my Acer Aspire Revo and you can't. It must be something different between our machines. I assume you are streaming movies since you only have a 60GB HD and these units don't have BD drives. I say its gotta be the network causing your problems. As I mentioned before, I don't have a USB TV tuner either but othrwise our systems are very similar. However, did you try playback without unstalling the TV tuner progrm just to make sure that wasn't causing a problem?

A while back I had a streaming problem took me a while to figure out that was caused because I had "Flow Control" turned off in the network settings.

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #25 on:** February 24, 2012, 11:08:10 am »

Just saw this program - and thought of your situation. Might want to give this a try: http://www.thesycon.com/deu/latency_check.shtml

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #26 on:** February 24, 2012, 11:14:24 am »

Quote from: hhbt@mail.dk on February 23, 2012, 03:09:24 am

Hi,

I've the same problem with my Zotac ZBOX ID41 (Atom 525/Nvidia Ion) playing Bluray discs.
The audio is way of sync and some movies are even playing in slow motion.
I've found out it's the video render causing me problems and tried different video renders and with different results (some better than others).
In the wiki it's claimed the LAV Video splitter is installed by MC16 but on my system (MC17) is only Haali splitter installed.

I've found out 1f0.de (http://1f0.de) has created the LAV splitter and a CUVID video render.
I'll try setting it up tonight and post the result.

/Hans

I'm not familar with the site you linked to for LAV splitter, but I believe you will find the original source (creator) of the programs here: (for LAV) http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156191 and here (for MadVR) http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228

Hansi · « **Reply #27 on:** February 25, 2012, 07:16:16 am »

I've tried everything I can think off and my conclusion is JRiver MC sucks at playback of Bluray material.
All my bluray moves is played back in slowmo and audio is completely out of sync.
DVD and regular Audio (flac, MP3) plays perfectly, HD material at 720p or less, no problems.
I've tried several players like Windows MP, MPC, Arcsoft TT5, Powerdvd, XBMC and they all play the movies nicely with no problems.
Tried to download several codecs (packs) and do custom video mode, windows merit, different video renders, splitters, decoders with no luck. Different OS like Windows 7 Ultimate, Home Premium, 32-bit, 64-bit, with or without Windows MP installed.
Different hard disks regular mechanical or SSD.
Different versions of MC both 16 and 17 same result.

I'm NOT in a good mood right now as MC is my best tools for organizing my media

JimH · « **Reply #28 on:** February 25, 2012, 07:18:14 am »

Try the latest MC17 from the top of this board.

Set video to Red October Standard.

Let us know what happens.

Hansi · « **Reply #29 on:** February 25, 2012, 08:04:43 am »

Hi Jim,
Thanks but same problem, all movies playback slowly

Nothing have been installed except JRiver MC 17.0.91 and standard Windows 7
Any data I can supply to solve the problem?

JimH · « **Reply #30 on:** February 25, 2012, 08:25:53 am »

Turn off hardware acceleration.

Unmodified Red October? Are you using any other filters? Don't until you solve this.

Uninstall MC, reboot, reinstall MC17.0.91.

Hansi · « **Reply #31 on:** February 25, 2012, 08:32:18 am »

I have done some codec installation, etc.
I would like to reinstall the computer, suggestions (OS version? 32- 64 bit?)?

JimH · « **Reply #32 on:** February 25, 2012, 08:36:41 am »

Either will work.

You can uninstall the codecs, but they don't affect MC if you use Red October Std.

Did you try turning off hardware acceleration under Video options?

Hansi · « **Reply #33 on:** February 25, 2012, 11:37:45 am »

Latest:

Installed Windows XP Pro: No Changes.

Installed Windows 7 Home Premium 32-Bit and MC 17.0.95.
Hardware acceleration off: Slow playback -> acceleration on: black screen but audio.

My configuration is:
Zotac ZBOX ID 41
Nvidia ION driver 295.73
Windows 7 64-bit patched up
2 GB mem
OCZ 60GB SSD

The ZBOX is connected to Denon AVR-3311 using HDMI have also tried to connect audio through S/PDIF.

My best experience has been with Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit all patched up but it was not a nice clean play.
I uploading a part of a movie that really will not play to my web site. I'll post the like later on.

Arne Blomme · « **Reply #34 on:** February 28, 2012, 10:01:56 am »

Hi,

I've the same problem with my Zotac ZBOX ID41 (Atom 525/Nvidia Ion) playing Bluray discs.
The Blurays ripped to iso are playing in slow motion.

KLite is playing the same film like a dream with 20% processor load.

I have tried most of the tweaks that have been suggested but

Arne

maciekb · « **Reply #35 on:** February 28, 2012, 11:26:00 am »

I have slowdowns as well with Asus AT5IONT-I. Everything is fine when i use custom decoder - ffdshow dxva. My system is Windows 7 64bit, connected via HDMI to Harman Kardon receiver.

Regards,
Maciek

Hendrik · « **Reply #36 on:** February 29, 2012, 12:53:32 am »

I've heard about such problems with older NVIDIA systems on some driver versions. Sadly i do not know which driver will work.

A workaround seems to be to use "native" DXVA2 on these systems, OR don't use NV12/YV12 as an output format (disabling NV12/YV12, will result in YUY2 for example)
Native DXVA2 leaves them in limbo with VC-1 content (no DXVA support on these cards), so CUVID + YUY2 output is probably one of the best choices, assuming the CPU can deal with it.

Matt or John should probably try to look into this.
Anyone that has these problems could try to install LAV Filters manually, and configure a custom video mode that uses LAV Video, and set it either to DXVA2 "native" (similar to ffdshow dxva, just without ffdshow), or set it to CUVID and disable NV12 and YV12 output formats. Maybe your results can help the devs to decide on an automatic setting to solve the problem.

FWIW, disabling YV12/NV12 output should not have any negative side effects, as long as you use CUVID anyway and perform deinterlacing through that.

maciekb · « **Reply #37 on:** February 29, 2012, 03:45:08 pm »

Quote from: nevcairiel on February 29, 2012, 12:53:32 am

I've heard about such problems with older NVIDIA systems on some driver versions. Sadly i do not know which driver will work.

A workaround seems to be to use "native" DXVA2 on these systems, OR don't use NV12/YV12 as an output format (disabling NV12/YV12, will result in YUY2 for example)
Native DXVA2 leaves them in limbo with VC-1 content (no DXVA support on these cards), so CUVID + YUY2 output is probably one of the best choices, assuming the CPU can deal with it.

Matt or John should probably try to look into this.
Anyone that has these problems could try to install LAV Filters manually, and configure a custom video mode that uses LAV Video, and set it either to DXVA2 "native" (similar to ffdshow dxva, just without ffdshow), or set it to CUVID and disable NV12 and YV12 output formats. Maybe your results can help the devs to decide on an automatic setting to solve the problem.

FWIW, disabling YV12/NV12 output should not have any negative side effects, as long as you use CUVID anyway and perform deinterlacing through that.

Thank you for your information. Disabling YV12/NV12 didn't changed anything, however when i selected dxva native, audio and video sync is perfect. I think LAV Video decoder should use DXVA2 Native mode by default when ION2 graphic is detected.

DrWhom · « **Reply #38 on:** March 01, 2012, 06:54:58 am »

Are you bitstreaming the audio, or is JRiver doing the decoding? I get stuttering sometimes when JRiver does the decoding (AMD E-350), and bitstreaming clears that up.

Quote from: Hansi on February 25, 2012, 11:37:45 am

Latest:

Installed Windows XP Pro: No Changes.

Installed Windows 7 Home Premium 32-Bit and MC 17.0.95.
Hardware acceleration off: Slow playback -> acceleration on: black screen but audio.

My configuration is:
Zotac ZBOX ID 41
Nvidia ION driver 295.73
Windows 7 64-bit patched up
2 GB mem
OCZ 60GB SSD

The ZBOX is connected to Denon AVR-3311 using HDMI have also tried to connect audio through S/PDIF.

My best experience has been with Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit all patched up but it was not a nice clean play.
I uploading a part of a movie that really will not play to my web site. I'll post the like later on.

Hendrik · « **Reply #39 on:** March 01, 2012, 08:10:54 am »

Quote from: maciekb on February 29, 2012, 03:45:08 pm

Thank you for your information. Disabling YV12/NV12 didn't changed anything, however when i selected dxva native, audio and video sync is perfect. I think LAV Video decoder should use DXVA2 Native mode by default when ION2 graphic is detected.

Thanks for the test.
Looks like it should really use DXVA2 Native on "low-end" systems like an ION/ION2. I'll try to remember to suggest it, unless Matt or John find this information on their own.

JohnT · « **Reply #40 on:** March 01, 2012, 11:47:07 am »

Hey nev, would it be possible for LAV decoder to have an "Auto" option for hardware acceleration, so the user (or Media Center) can choose to enable HW acceleration, but the decoder would decide the best choice between DXVA2, CUVID, and Quicksync ??
So in the Hardware Acceleration drop box there would be:

None
Auto
NVIDIA CUVID
Intel QuickSync
DXVA2 (copy back)
DXVA2 (native)

If that's not in the works, maybe we need to allow the user to select this in Media Center, although I really prefer keeping Red October "automatic".

Hendrik · « **Reply #41 on:** March 01, 2012, 12:07:42 pm »

Quote from: JohnT on March 01, 2012, 11:47:07 am

Hey nev, would it be possible for LAV decoder to have an "Auto" option for hardware acceleration, so the user (or Media Center) can choose to enable HW acceleration, but the decoder would decide the best choice between DXVA2, CUVID, and Quicksync ??

I guess that is possible, although an "advanced" option to control it in MC17 additionally might be nice for some users with hardware thats on the border of each group.
I'll look into it.

JohnT · « **Reply #42 on:** March 01, 2012, 02:14:07 pm »

I can modify the code to detect the presence of an Atom processor, and in that case prefer DXVA2 acceleration over CUVID acceleration. Will that fix the problem on these ION/ION2 systems?

Hendrik · « **Reply #43 on:** March 01, 2012, 02:21:44 pm »

Quote from: JohnT on March 01, 2012, 02:14:07 pm

I can modify the code to detect the presence of an Atom processor, and in that case prefer DXVA2 acceleration over CUVID acceleration. Will that fix the problem on these ION/ION2 systems?

I guess it would.
I would assume that the Atom/ION platform just has a too small memory bandwidth for CUVID to work properly.

Anyway, people requested an "Auto" HW Accel mode for a while anyway, i'll have to see how smart i can really make it.
Not sure about a timeframe, though.

JohnT · « **Reply #44 on:** March 01, 2012, 02:29:13 pm »

I've got the Atom detection code working for the next build, so no need for you to hurry on the "Auto" mode. Let's see how this change works out for people with the ION systems.

maciekb · « **Reply #45 on:** March 01, 2012, 03:53:37 pm »

Quote from: JohnT on March 01, 2012, 02:29:13 pm

I've got the Atom detection code working for the next build, so no need for you to hurry on the "Auto" mode. Let's see how this change works out for people with the ION systems.

I think this should solve issue with ION2 platform. Thanks.

Regards,
Maciek

maciekb · « **Reply #46 on:** March 04, 2012, 04:30:16 am »

Quote from: JohnT on March 01, 2012, 02:29:13 pm

I've got the Atom detection code working for the next build, so no need for you to hurry on the "Auto" mode. Let's see how this change works out for people with the ION systems.

With build 17.0.99 RO Standard works like a charm on my setup. Thank you.

JohnT · « **Reply #47 on:** March 05, 2012, 07:35:09 am »

Great, thanks for letting us know.

Arne Blomme · « **Reply #48 on:** March 06, 2012, 01:22:13 am »

The new update solved the problem for me - Thanks!

Arne

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Author Topic: Nvidia Ion playback issues for bluray and live tv (Read 19471 times)