Topic: Kernel Streaming Problems (Read 14000 times)

ellisdj · « **on:** July 19, 2013, 03:04:02 pm »

I have built a whole new pc to use as a audio PC

I chose the Haswell platform for its low power consumption for the max power but I am having major playbak problems with Kernal Streaming.

I think its driver related - or something is not compatible somewhere and I really need some help.

J River will play a standard wav or flac back fine - but if I select a high res format 88 or above it plays for between 1 and 10 seconds and then J River crashes.

PC is i5 4670S
Asus B885M -G Motherboard
4GB Corsair Ram
Streacom Nano PSU
Intel 520 60Gb SSD
M2Tech Hiface 2
Win 8 Pro

Originally I had an i7 and Intel motherbaord - I rma'd them both as I was having other issues with video etc.

I have today installed the asus and i5 and the problems remain
I have run prime and the computer is stable.

Can someone please help me its driving me crazy

Matt · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2013, 03:11:27 pm »

Welcome.

Please switch to WASAPI (our recommended output on Vista and newer) in Options > Audio.

Also, you may need to configure DSP Studio > Output Format to resample sample rates that the hardware will not support.

ellisdj · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2013, 03:24:23 pm »

The hardware supports 192 @ 24bit.

If i plug it into my office pc with i7 2600k and p67 platform it plays fine - with all same software.

I want to use kernal streaming - there must be a way to get it to work please?

Matt · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2013, 03:25:55 pm »

Quote from: ellisdj on July 19, 2013, 03:24:23 pm

I want to use kernal streaming - there must be a way to get it to work please?

WASAPI is a better choice and is the JRiver recommendation.

You're finding out part of the reason why right now.

ellisdj · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2013, 03:42:42 pm »

It works perfectly on my older system with Kernal Streaming but not with my newer system

That makes no sense to me?

BigMac · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2013, 07:29:34 pm »

http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/1fuqnk/intel_officially_confirms_usb_30_bug_in_haswell/

May be related issue? ?

ellisdj · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2013, 02:40:23 am »

I did see about the USB 3 problem but that is a sleep based error. Thanks for suggesting I look.

My system hasn't gone into sleep at all - are you suggesting its related to the USB side of things?
I originally bought an asus xonar st and used that with a riser. I had the same problem assumed it was the riser causing instability so then returned both...

It seems software or settings related I have changed pretty much everything else

Hendrik · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2013, 03:35:47 am »

As Matt pointed out, kernel streaming is not recommended on Windows Vista/7/8, instead you should use WASAPI with exclusive device access, that will get you low-latency and bit perfect audio output, similar to Kernel Streaming, just more modern and more stable.
Kernel Streaming is a remnant from Windows XP, and not up to date on newer versions of Windows anymore.

ellisdj · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2013, 05:59:02 am »

I have been testing Wasapi doesnt work either it has the same error symptoms as kernal streaming

6233638 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2013, 06:19:31 am »

Try the "Disable Event Style" option if WASAPI is not working, or Direct Sound if you can't get audio working properly at all.
Perhaps you should post a sample if it's only happening with specific files.

ellisdj · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2013, 08:55:43 am »

It's happening with all files above 48kbs.

I built this PC to be the audio front end of a fairly high end system so using anything other than kernal streaming is out of the question.

The fact that ks wadapi and wadapi event style all don't work in JRiver and it appears foobar as well means some serious work needs to be done or it should be specified that this platform is not compatible with these Audio players.

It's been the same with 2 sound peripherals I have tried it with.

I am going to return the haswell products as this basic incompatibility is a serious flaw in my book especially in. A platform aimed at this type of use

JimH · « **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2013, 09:12:18 am »

It isn't the machine or the software. It's the settings or the driver. Don't give up.

Start here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes

Make sure DirectSound works before you continue.

6233638 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2013, 09:16:00 am »

Looking at the M2Tech site, the manual provides clear instructions for using the device with WASAPI inside JRiver Media Center: http://www.m2tech.biz/public/pdf/hiFace%20Two%20user%20manual%201-0.pdf
It also appears that they offer an ASIO driver, which should also work in Media Center.

Generally the hierarchy is:

Native ASIO driver (i.e. provided by the manufacturer, not a "universal" driver like ASIO4All)
WASAPI Event Style
WASAPI
Kernel Streaming
DirectSound

There's no reason to be using Kernel Streaming on Windows 8.

ellisdj · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2013, 11:25:44 am »

I have followed the instructions to the letter and it doesn't work.

Yes I will be sending back the hiface as its rubbish - however I have not even heard it playing music but the hassle I have had is ridiculous. I do blame the hiface / m2tech I blame haswell compatibility and how long until its sorted?
I have emailed m2tech in English and Italian with no response re their drivers

I have spent over a grand now on this PC and to not even be able to play music is a joke, especially as that is why I have built it

When I plug into an older i7, it plays fine. I might as well have bought the bits used off eBay and saved a few hundred.

I have posted these problems on 7 forums intel this one av forum j play forum and no one has come back with a solution - I only want to listen to high quality music and you don't get that from direct sound, I am not suffering that. I will send these haswell bits back as there is obviously windows updates that are needed or manufacturers need to do something and I will just use sandy or ivy - at least they work!

6233638 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2013, 11:57:22 am »

Are you also running Windows 8 on the older i7?

ellisdj · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2013, 12:30:11 pm »

The software is the same - platform and hardware similar but different.
Works perfectly on that comp - wont have it on this haswell.

JimH · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2013, 02:03:01 pm »

I'm having trouble understanding why you think it's Haswell.

JimH · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2013, 03:17:47 pm »

Did you install the motherboard drivers?

ellisdj · « **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2013, 06:11:34 pm »

I don't think it's haswell as such but compatibility with the platform yes!
I have had 2 1150 mobos now and both have been the same.

Maybe it's the vendors fault - but what do I do wait until its sorted out or do something about it??

We are not talking about blasting out the latest game at max grafs - we are only talking playing music above 48kbs.

That should not be as difficult as it has been - you maybe don't realise how many hours I have been working trying to get it to work. Several days now and it's a trivial task for a modern pc, the grief I have had.

Plug into a sandy bridge PC works perfect - what would you do?
I don't know many other USB to spdif converters that I would want to buy

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** July 20, 2013, 06:28:32 pm »

You might try Windows Control Panel/Sounds to see what the OS thinks your device can play. You might learn something.

ellisdj · « **Reply #20 on:** July 21, 2013, 02:19:37 am »

i have tried that - the unit plays all formats from44 to 192 @ 24bit as per the spec.

6233638 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 21, 2013, 07:16:48 am »

Quote from: ellisdj on July 21, 2013, 02:19:37 am

i have tried that - the unit plays all formats from44 to 192 @ 24bit as per the spec.

Does it report that it will accept 44.1-192kHz, or does it actually work when you use the "test" button for those formats in the control panel?

The control panels uses DirectSound for its output. Try setting up Media Center to use DirectSound and see if that also works.
I'm sure it must be possible to get WASAPI or ASIO working with this device - though you may have to try adjusting the buffer size in output mode settings to get it working well.

And it only just occurred to me - are you plugging this into a USB3 port? Some devices do not like that, so it would be best to connect it to a USB2 port if you have one available.

rayooo · « **Reply #22 on:** July 21, 2013, 10:23:47 am »

Just noticed this thread and haven't had a chance to read through in detail...
But just for the record I just finished a Haswell build.. asus H87M-E

Short story is it works fine. Wasapi or Kernel Streaming.
I don't use any MC DSP, all formats up to 192k play fine natively.

Historically, once I have wasapi-event working, kernel steaming has also worked.
Same with Haswell.

Using usb-2 ports.. Tried the USB-3 also just to see... MIT worked also but I didn't test long.
Using the normal async USB driver provided by Esoteric.

ellisdj · « **Reply #23 on:** July 21, 2013, 11:23:50 am »

Rayon what are you using as your sound output?

What drivers do you have installed as well please?

You could turn out to be my saviour

rayooo · « **Reply #24 on:** July 21, 2013, 03:03:38 pm »

My only sound device is an Esoteric D-07X DAC. It's connected to the PC/MC via USB.

All I do when bringing up a new system in follow the DAC manufacturers install instructions for installation of the USB driver.
Once installed and the DAC is connected, the DAC Driver always appears in "Output Mode Settings" -> Device. Once the Device is selected, I'm off an running.
As I recall "Exclusive" is default.. then I can tweak as needed, but, that's basically all I do.

One thing I always seem to have to do is with the USB Driver and DAC connected, I have to go into Windows "Devices and Printers", where I can now view the newly installed Audio device, right click, select sound properties and then proceed to selected the formats the device will support.
At one point I didn't think these driver settings did anything..and I've not tested to be sure now as I just as a rule go in and set the formats that the device supports.

I've been traveling and still have not read through the thread!.. sorry if this is redundant and/or unhelpful.. Good luck!

rayooo · « **Reply #25 on:** July 21, 2013, 03:05:28 pm »

Just notice your using Win8, I've been meaning to do an install with 8 but have not gotten around to it yet.
I'm not sure if "Devices and Printers" is the same in Win8 or not, but, that's where I can see and adjust settings for the USB Dac driver.

ellisdj · « **Reply #26 on:** July 21, 2013, 03:56:33 pm »

Your obviously lucky that your dac usb drivers work with win 7 and the new platform.

I have not been so lucky as I done exactly what you have said you have done......

I would confirm win 8 drivers will work the same before changing just in case...

rayooo · « **Reply #27 on:** July 22, 2013, 04:09:47 pm »

While you are in the device setup pages, where you select the formats that are supported by your DAC...
In my case, I can of course select or not select, 32k 44.1k, 48k etc. up to 192K.

For each selection, there is an option to "test".

if you select the test, windows sends a short test tune to the DAC device. in my case this happens without MC loaded.
It confirms that the device can play the selected format.

Does this work with your system?

ellisdj · « **Reply #28 on:** July 23, 2013, 12:14:55 am »

I don't have that option in sound
It only lets me choose a windows output format I.e 44000 @16 bit from a drop down box menu.

And then the choices for exclusive control over the output device.

6233638 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 23, 2013, 04:20:30 am »

Have you installed the driver?

I had another look at the M2Tech website and downloaded it, and it appears to be a "standard" Thesycon ASIO driver.
With native ASIO support, I wouldn't be wasting my time with Kernel Streaming.

ellisdj · « **Reply #30 on:** July 24, 2013, 12:24:14 am »

There is a reason why I want to use KS but it doesn't matter wasapi doesn't work either.
Yes I have installed the drivers - and 2 other varieties that people have posted solve problems. They still don't solve mine.

I have informed the m2tech uk importer of the issue so he can let them know, I think their drivers need updating.

I have 2 different USB to spdif converters coming today on loan.

If I get the same problem I will have no choice but to back the haswell. I have already had the same problem with this computer feeding an asus xonar st sound card. The card was on a riser due to my slim line case so thought that was the cause. I didn't think to check the drivers as the ones I had worked perfectly on win 8 on another comp I have. Asus released new drivers junket his year - wish I thought to try them first before returning the soundcard

JazzDoc · « **Reply #31 on:** July 24, 2013, 02:11:24 am »

Have you heard back from Keith at Purite Audio yet? If so, what did he suggest?

It might be worth trying out Windows 8. I would stick with the standard HiFace driver rather than the Young driver. The Young driver might sound a little better but it did give me problems under certain settings, e.g. when using JPlay Hibernate mode on a single PC setup. Try those test tones in audio setup to see what, if anything, you can output.

Stay with it ... I'm sure it's solvable.

ellisdj · « **Reply #32 on:** July 24, 2013, 02:44:16 am »

I have tried the young drivers and basically everytime you insert the hiface it causes the system to crash -- I get a light blue screen with a smiley face and some words expalining there has been a serious error and the computer restarts.

I have tried thesycon drivers using the inif file mod - that did install after a bit of work but again it made no difference.

I am running win 8 pro 64.

I have had someone else look at the computer - he couldnt do anything different to me and he has more experience with jriver than me. Its crazy it should just work but it doesnt ..... head bang against wall stuff!!

If you run Jplay then you will know the benefits of Kernel streaming

ellisdj · « **Reply #33 on:** July 24, 2013, 05:00:10 am »

Quick Update - just tested the Halide Design Bridge - works perfectly

JimH · « **Reply #34 on:** July 24, 2013, 06:43:43 am »

Quote from: ellisdj on July 24, 2013, 02:44:16 am

If you run Jplay then you will know the benefits of Kernel streaming

If Jplay is installed, please uninstall it.

Try other USB ports.

Search the Microsoft site for USB problems. There is a recent hotfix.

Did you install the motherboard drivers?

6233638 · « **Reply #35 on:** July 24, 2013, 09:46:39 am »

Quote from: ellisdj on July 24, 2013, 12:24:14 am

There is a reason why I want to use KS but it doesn't matter wasapi doesn't work either.

You keep saying this, but do not give any reason. Kernel Streaming is a bad idea on a modern OS, where you have the option of ASIO or WASAPI. It does not sound any better than ASIO or WASAPI.
And I suggested using ASIO, as the hiFace two driver is a native ASIO driver.

Quote from: ellisdj on July 24, 2013, 02:44:16 am

I have tried the young drivers and basically everytime you insert the hiface it causes the system to crash -- I get a light blue screen with a smiley face and some words expalining there has been a serious error and the computer restarts.

I have tried thesycon drivers using the inif file mod - that did install after a bit of work but again it made no difference.

If you are trying to troubleshoot a problem, you should make sure you are using the correct drivers from the manufacturer's website, rather than modified drivers.

Quote from: ellisdj on July 24, 2013, 05:00:10 am

Quick Update - just tested the Halide Design Bridge - works perfectly

Well I'm glad you have at least found something that is working for you.

ellisdj · « **Reply #36 on:** July 24, 2013, 11:00:40 am »

You missed all the previous posts

I tried the manufacturers drivers, i tried j river with wasapi, kernal asio none worked - the same problem persisted regardless of the setting

J Play is a very seperate issue but the problem was there with that.

The Halide Bridge does work but its not 100% to my taste so i don think I will be keeping it

I didnt know there was usb hot fix - I will look that up - as it stands my mobo and cpu are going back for rma as I am tired of the usb issues - had another today

If the hot fix fixes it then maybe I will keep it. Doubt it as it stands

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Author Topic: Kernel Streaming Problems (Read 14000 times)