Topic: Browser Engine problem - Windows update - IE11 (Read 6997 times)

Gotterdammerungly · « **on:** November 14, 2013, 04:24:28 pm »

I have MC 16, 18 and 19 installed on my W7 PC (although I only now use 19), and all was working well until the most recent set of updates from Microsoft for Windows. A whole load of them have recently installed themselves, and immediately after MC began to misbehave. Whilst 16 was not affected, both 18 and 19 would no longer allow me to close the application, they both freeze solid. Also there were random freezes, attempting to restore a library for instance caused total freezing. Only Task Manager would close the app.

After uninstalling both 18 and 19, and reinstalling the latest version of 19, the problem remained. So I used System Restore to take my PC back to two days ago, before the Windows updates...and MC was fine again! So something within those updates has caused the issue. So I proceeded to install the Windows updates one by one, and they have all installed fine causing no problem, but the one left is Internet Explorer 11. I currently have IE10 - which I don't use as I prefer Firefox. But I know MC uses the IE engine for its web internal access, so I had my suspicions about this being the culprit.

So I have not installed it, yet! I have also downloaded and installed Chrome, and have switched the browser setting in MC to Chromium, but that causes an immediate lock-up of MC when I try to use the Services and Plugins section.

So at the moment I have it set to Internet Explorer, which is V.10 on my system, and it works, but Windows update keeps telling me to download 11 and I fear this will simply wreck MC again.

Am I the only person having this problem?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice.

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** November 14, 2013, 05:13:06 pm »

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for reporting all the details. It may be something other than the Windows updates. A virus checker can do strange things like that.

I would be really surprised if IE caused a problem.

FastKayak · « **Reply #2 on:** November 14, 2013, 05:20:08 pm »

On my two Win 7 systems IE 11 is available but by default not selected for installation. So when the November uodates automatically installed yesterday IE 11 was not brought along. EG At this time Microsopft considers IE 11 optional. As Jim notes your issue is probably elsewhere....

FastKayak / Larry

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #3 on:** November 14, 2013, 06:08:40 pm »

Quote from: JimH on November 14, 2013, 05:13:06 pm

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for reporting all the details. It may be something other than the Windows updates. A virus checker can do strange things like that.

I would be really surprised if IE caused a problem.

Thanks. I do not run a continuous virus checker, I run scans on a regular basis but I like to keep background processes on this machine to a minimum as it is used for a lot of music.

I use Privatefirewall 7.0.

I suppose I need to re-install IE 11 and see if the problem recurs (which according to my Windows Update is an 'Important Update' and will not be ignored!).

I am going to try a few things.....

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #4 on:** November 14, 2013, 06:15:30 pm »

At the moment MC only works on my system with the Browser Engine selected as IE. If I select Chromium and attempt to access Services and Plugins it freezes, permanently. Using the IE engine (currently 10 on my PC) it works.
I have tried this with my firewall disabled and that makes no difference.
The 'upgrade' to IE 11 seems to have the same effect, rendering MC unusable, and yet it currently works fine with IE10.
I am completely puzzled!

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #5 on:** November 14, 2013, 06:17:35 pm »

Quote from: JimH on November 14, 2013, 05:13:06 pm

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for reporting all the details. It may be something other than the Windows updates. A virus checker can do strange things like that.

I would be really surprised if IE caused a problem.

It began immediately after the updates installed. MC began to freeze, and I then realized that it would not let me shut it down. I 'undid' the updates, and it worked again, and I get the same symptoms when I change the browser engine to Chromium.

JimH · « **Reply #6 on:** November 14, 2013, 06:19:53 pm »

Quote from: Gotterdammerungly on November 14, 2013, 06:08:40 pm

Thanks. I do not run a continuous virus checker, I run scans on a regular basis but I like to keep background processes on this machine to a minimum as it is used for a lot of music.

Try uninstalling it.

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #7 on:** November 14, 2013, 06:25:45 pm »

Quote from: JimH on November 14, 2013, 06:19:53 pm

Try uninstalling it.

Uninstalling what? I don't have any anti-virus software running on this PC. I use anti malware tools and online scanners and I have not had any virus issues because I am careful and quite experienced.

The problem began precisely when I updated to the IE11 engine from IE10, and the Chromium engine does not work either.

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #8 on:** November 14, 2013, 06:28:25 pm »

I am probably going to regret it but I am going to try the IE11 update once again and see if it causes the problem to recur - it is the only way to find out for sure I think.
Wish me luck!

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #9 on:** November 14, 2013, 07:10:33 pm »

It is definitely the IE 11 update - in fact IE 11 will not work at all on my PC, although Firefox and Chrome are still accessing the web, IE 11 will not even call up Google, and it has trashed MC - so now I am about to System Restore back to a couple of hours ago, before I re-applied the IE 11 update. It is obviously the fact that MC is trying to use the new 11 engine on my PC, which does not work! It renders MC 19 unusable (freezes when it tries to use IE 11 or when you try to exit the program).

So, not really the fault of MC, more the fault of IE 11!!

Now I am going to sit and watch it restore for half an hour!

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #10 on:** November 14, 2013, 07:28:29 pm »

Well, I have now System Restored back to pre-IE 11, and MC is fine again.

IE 11, as I said before, does not seem to work at all on my PC, cannot even connect to the web for some reason, thus I suppose when MC is invoking it that is causing the crash.

It took ages to install, and a long reboot. IE 11 is obviously something quite major, that my PC does not like!

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #11 on:** April 24, 2014, 11:00:40 am »

Well, it is DEFINITELY something to do with the IE 11 update. After leaving it for a few months I decided to try the IE11 update again, as Windows keeps telling me to.

MC 19 is happy using IE 10 on my system. But if I install the IE 11 update it freezes solid after about 30 seconds. The same happens if I switch to Chrome. I have tried everything I can thing of, all other Windows updates have installed fine. I have disabled and even uninstalled Bitdefender, which I have started using.

I am using Windows 7 Service Pack 1.

Basically, if I try to use IE 11 or Chromium as the browser engine MC is totally unusable (apart fro the first 30 seconds!).

I have used system restore once again to get back to IE 10, and it works fine again.

Is anyone using IE 11 in W7 SP1 successfully? Can anyone offer any suggestions or help?

Thanks in advance.....

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #12 on:** April 24, 2014, 11:06:08 am »

Seems related to this:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84143.0

JimH · « **Reply #13 on:** April 24, 2014, 01:06:45 pm »

Lots of people use IE11. I can't imagine that it could be the problem. Firewall? Disabling a bad firewall might not be enough.

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #14 on:** April 24, 2014, 01:52:22 pm »

I have tried it with firewall/anti virus disabled. It is identical to the problem mentioned in the other thread. Something to do with the IE/Chromium option in "Tree & View" does not work properly, at least with IE11.

As soon as I 'upgrade' to IE11 MC stops working. I can do all other Windows Updates, but not the IE one. It destroys MC (full lock-up, has to be killed with TM) When I System Restore back to IE10 it works again. No other changes whatsoever. I have been through this process several times now to check and double check (and believe me it is not fun watching System Restore over and over again...) and it happens every time. I am also unable to select 'Chromium', as that causes the same behaviour. My MC only works with IE10.

The fact that exactly the same problem is described in the other thread confirms to me that it is not simply my system which is experiencing such an issue.

I can live without IE11, as I use Firefox anyway....but that is not the point, I would like to update my system, and also I would like to know why the Chromium option destroys MC in exactly the same way.

JimH · « **Reply #15 on:** April 24, 2014, 01:56:30 pm »

Quote from: Gotterdammerungly on April 24, 2014, 01:52:22 pm

I have tried it with firewall/anti virus disabled.

Disabled may not be enough if they are causing the problem. Uninstalling the problem software and rebooting is the only test that will rule them out.

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #16 on:** April 24, 2014, 02:00:56 pm »

Are you suggesting I need to uninstall my anti-virus and firewall software to update to IE11, or to use it in MC?

I actually did uninstall my anti-virus software, completely, rebooted, and that didn't help. I feel it should not be necessary to disable one's entire online security in order to get MC's browser engine selection to work!!

Why do you think my AV/FW might be causing this problem?

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #17 on:** April 24, 2014, 02:32:57 pm »

Quote from: Gotterdammerungly on April 24, 2014, 02:00:56 pm

Are you suggesting I need to uninstall my anti-virus and firewall software to update to IE11, or to use it in MC?

I actually did uninstall my anti-virus software, completely, rebooted, and that didn't help. I feel it should not be necessary to disable one's entire online security in order to get MC's browser engine selection to work!!

Why do you think my AV/FW might be causing this problem?

No one is suggesting you need to run your computer entirely without security.

Weird problems thread.

Several occasions where disabling AV or FW software did not work, uninstalling did.

We're not suggesting you uninstall all security permanently, but simply to determine whether that's part of the cause.

Many people run IE 11 without problems, that's not to say that it can't be part of the problem though. Maybe your issue is a combination of IE11 with your AV/FW software. Or something else. I don't know.

It's unfortunate you're having these issues though

.

Have you seen the excellent Troubleshooting Guide on the wiki? It might be worthwhile to go through that.

JimH · « **Reply #18 on:** April 24, 2014, 02:54:09 pm »

If IE11 didn't work with MC, you would see problem posts all over the board. It works. I use it on several machines.

The fact that installing IE11 also caused problems with Chrome could mean that something at the network level is broken.

What language is your PC set to? What else might be different?

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #19 on:** April 24, 2014, 03:08:13 pm »

Quote from: InflatableMouse on April 24, 2014, 02:32:57 pm

No one is suggesting you need to run your computer entirely without security.

Weird problems thread.

Several occasions where disabling AV or FW software did not work, uninstalling did.

We're not suggesting you uninstall all security permanently, but simply to determine whether that's part of the cause.

Many people run IE 11 without problems, that's not to say that it can't be part of the problem though. Maybe your issue is a combination of IE11 with your AV/FW software. Or something else. I don't know.

It's unfortunate you're having these issues though .

Have you seen the excellent Troubleshooting Guide on the wiki? It might be worthwhile to go through that.

Thanks. However, none of the issues in the thread you quote relate to mine, which solely concerns MC's browser engine selection/updating to IE 11

Let me just try to clarify. When I update IE to v.11 MC stops working. When I uninstall back to IE v.10 MC works again.

I am not a complete MC novice, I have had registered versions of 16, 18 and now 19.

I am also unable to select Chromium as the browser engine, as this crashes MC also, even though the Chrome browser works fine on its own.

I was really trying to find out whether anyone else has had my particular problem, i.e. caused directly by upgrading via Windows Update from v.10 to v.11.

The symptoms described in the thread I quoted precisely mirror those I am experiencing, that user is obviously experiencing exactly my problem, but with Chromium, and the replies seem to suggest there is some issue here with MC. Frankly I would like an option to turn off Browser Selection completely, as it is of no use to me and is in danger of rendering my favourite and only music player unusable.

Do you suggest I uninstall both my AV and my firewall and then go through the IE 11 update process? I am rather reluctant to have my PC connected in such a completely unprotected manner but I will try it if no other solution can be found.

MrC · « **Reply #20 on:** April 24, 2014, 03:11:07 pm »

Just curious... updating to IE11 is a rather lengthy process with all the Windows Updates required after installation. Are you applying all the updates too? After those are done, how about seeing if a fresh MC install works.

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #21 on:** April 24, 2014, 03:13:32 pm »

Quote from: JimH on April 24, 2014, 02:54:09 pm

If IE11 didn't work with MC, you would see problem posts all over the board. It works. I use it on several machines.

The fact that installing IE11 also caused problems with Chrome could mean that something at the network level is broken.

What language is your PC set to? What else might be different?

Updating to IE 11 didn't 'break' the Chrome functionality. That has never worked!

My language is English - UK

Chrome works fine as a browser on its own. I have no internet connectivity problems, everything works fine, except MC/IE11/Chrome.

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #22 on:** April 24, 2014, 03:16:01 pm »

A few thoughts.

Have you considered uninstalling the older versions of MC? There have been some incidental reports of problems with multiple versions installed. Generally, this shouldn't be a problem but stranger things have happened

.

Have you tried this?

Quote from: Gotterdammerungly on April 24, 2014, 03:13:32 pm

Chrome works fine as a browser on its own. I have no internet connectivity problems, everything works fine, except MC/IE11/Chrome.

The Chrome engine is a bit flaky.

I don't think the OS browser version or installing Chrome should have any effect on MC's browser engine choice. I'm pretty sure these engines are internal to MC but someone else would have to confirm or deny that to be sure.

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #23 on:** April 24, 2014, 03:17:37 pm »

Quote from: MrC on April 24, 2014, 03:11:07 pm

Just curious... updating to IE11 is a rather lengthy process with all the Windows Updates required after installation. Are you applying all the updates too? After those are done, how about seeing if a fresh MC install works.

Thanks. Yes, it is...and I do patiently wait for everything to finish etc....

And I did all the IE11 updates. I have been putting off doing an MC reinstall, but I think I may have to give it a go. Like I said, I'm not desperate to have IE11, as I use Firefox, but I don't want a Windows update to break MC, which is the most important piece of software on my PC!

I will try that if no other possibilities come to light.

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #24 on:** April 24, 2014, 03:23:47 pm »

Quote from: InflatableMouse on April 24, 2014, 03:16:01 pm

A few thoughts.

Have you considered uninstalling the older versions of MC? There have been some incidental reports of problems with multiple versions installed. Generally, this shouldn't be a problem but stranger things have happened .

Have you tried this?

The Chrome engine is a bit flaky.

I don't think the OS browser version or installing Chrome should have any effect on MC's browser engine choice. I'm pretty sure these engines are internal to MC but someone else would have to confirm or deny that to be sure.

I have uninstalled MC16, but I still have 18 installed, mainly as a back-up in case 19 stops working through something like this

Maybe I should remove it. Thank you, that is something I think I shall try.

My MC19 is happy with IE 10 browser engine, but cannot stomach either IE 11 or Chrome!

glynor · « **Reply #25 on:** April 24, 2014, 07:19:17 pm »

I think a bunch of stuff in this thread is getting confused. This issue has, from what I can read, absolutely nothing to do with MC.

Quote from: Gotterdammerungly on November 14, 2013, 07:10:33 pm

It is definitely the IE 11 update - in fact IE 11 will not work at all on my PC

That is the problem.

Something particular to your machine is breaking when you install IE 11. This should not be the case. There are a wide variety of things that could cause this. Yes, it is possible that a ridiculous security suite could be causing this, but I'd guess something else first. But, of course, if your core Web Browser components in the OS are broken, then MC won't be able to use them. But this would be true of any other application that uses the OS browser components. Everything else in this thread is noise.

Your IE is broken, not MC. You need to resolve that issue. Here's a good place to start:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/internet-explorer/ie-crashes-stops-working#ie=ie-11

glynor · « **Reply #26 on:** April 24, 2014, 07:26:04 pm »

Quote from: InflatableMouse on April 24, 2014, 03:16:01 pm

I don't think the OS browser version or installing Chrome should have any effect on MC's browser engine choice. I'm pretty sure these engines are internal to MC but someone else would have to confirm or deny that to be sure.

The Chromium engine is internal to MC and has nothing to do with Chrome. Chrome and Chromium are two different (though related) things. Chromium is the core, open source browser component (the thing that draws the pages). Chrome is a web browser application made by Google, with features like buttons, and minimize controls, and bookmarks, and a browser bar. There are builds (generally beta quality) from the Chromium Project that actually wrap this engine up in a browser interface, but the basic idea is that Chromium is the "naked robotic core" and Chrome is Google's implementation of a browser built upon that Chromium engine.

But, in any case: Not Chrome.

The IE engine, however, is integrated into Windows. MC uses the IE engine that is part of your OS, via the Windows API. If your IE browser engine is broken, then this won't work at all, obviously.

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #27 on:** April 25, 2014, 08:27:27 am »

Quote from: glynor on April 24, 2014, 07:26:04 pm

The Chromium engine is internal to MC and has nothing to do with Chrome. Chrome and Chromium are two different (though related) things. Chromium is the core, open source browser component (the thing that draws the pages). Chrome is a web browser application made by Google, with features like buttons, and minimize controls, and bookmarks, and a browser bar. There are builds (generally beta quality) from the Chromium Project that actually wrap this engine up in a browser interface, but the basic idea is that Chromium is the "naked robotic core" and Chrome is Google's implementation of a browser built upon that Chromium engine.

But, in any case: Not Chrome.

The IE engine, however, is integrated into Windows. MC uses the IE engine that is part of your OS, via the Windows API. If your IE browser engine is broken, then this won't work at all, obviously.

Thanks for that clarification. The 'Chromium' browser selection does not work on my machine. Exhibits exactly that same lock-up as IE11. Do you have any idea why that should be?

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #28 on:** April 25, 2014, 08:35:00 am »

Quote from: glynor on April 24, 2014, 07:19:17 pm

I think a bunch of stuff in this thread is getting confused. This issue has, from what I can read, absolutely nothing to do with MC.

That is the problem.

Something particular to your machine is breaking when you install IE 11. This should not be the case. There are a wide variety of things that could cause this. Yes, it is possible that a ridiculous security suite could be causing this, but I'd guess something else first. But, of course, if your core Web Browser components in the OS are broken, then MC won't be able to use them. But this would be true of any other application that uses the OS browser components. Everything else in this thread is noise.

Your IE is broken, not MC. You need to resolve that issue. Here's a good place to start:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/internet-explorer/ie-crashes-stops-working#ie=ie-11

I'm terribly sorry for posting 'noise' in your precious forum, but I am only a mere mortal who is trying to solve a problem with my favourite piece of software. I appreciate that you know much more than an ignoramus like me, but there is no need to be so arrogant and dismissive.

Also, if it is just 'my IE' that is broken why does the Chromium option have the same problem?

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #29 on:** April 25, 2014, 08:46:12 am »

Interestingly, in the thread I mentioned earlier, where the Chromium issue is discussed (with no concrete resolution) the latest post says, quote:

"Same issue for me, since updated to IE 11 on Win 7.
MC freezes rather quickly.
If I kill JRWeb.exe, playing back starts again, I just miss some display :-)."

So I am not the only person having this problem.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84143.0

RussellS · « **Reply #30 on:** April 25, 2014, 09:39:54 am »

Quote from: Gotterdammerungly on April 25, 2014, 08:35:00 am

I'm terribly sorry for posting 'noise' in your precious forum, but I am only a mere mortal who is trying to solve a problem with my favourite piece of software. I appreciate that you know much more than an ignoramus like me, but there is no need to be so arrogant and dismissive.

Also, if it is just 'my IE' that is broken why does the Chromium option have the same problem?

I don't think Glynor was being arrogant or dismissive but was just saying that there are issues here which are possibly clouding the main issue.

Your fundamental problem is that IE11 does not work on your machine for some reason. I agree with Glynor that you need to concentrate only on this and ignore MC & Chromium. If IE11 browser is unable to pull up a web page on your PC then that is what requires fixing. If this one issue can be resolved then I expect everything else will just fall into place and work.

What is happening when you try to open a web page with IE11. Are you getting an error message or is it just freezing.

RussellS · « **Reply #31 on:** April 25, 2014, 09:51:00 am »

Have a look here and see if any of these actions help especially running IE with all extensions dissabled.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn338138.aspx

JimH · « **Reply #32 on:** April 25, 2014, 10:40:34 am »

Quote from: Gotterdammerungly on April 25, 2014, 08:35:00 am

I'm terribly sorry for posting 'noise' in your precious forum, but I am only a mere mortal who is trying to solve a problem with my favourite piece of software. I appreciate that you know much more than an ignoramus like me, but there is no need to be so arrogant and dismissive.

You're taking a swing at another user of the software. glynor isn't an employee of JRiver. He is one of the smartest and most helpful people here. Show him a little respect and you might be surprised what you could learn.

Gotterdammerungly · « **Reply #33 on:** April 25, 2014, 10:58:28 am »

Quote from: JimH on April 25, 2014, 10:40:34 am

You're taking a swing at another user of the software. glynor isn't an employee of JRiver. He is one of the smartest and most helpful people here. Show him a little respect and you might be surprised what you could learn.

Don't be so patronising. He may be smart but I considered his attitude dismissive and condescending. I have posted evidence that I am not alone in having experienced this, which has been ignored.

I shall try the suggestions about IE11 from those who seemed inclined to help rather than bluster, but right now I have system restored back to IE10 so I can listen to music again and can't face it.

I won't bother with this forum again as it seems unwelcoming and elitist.

JimH · « **Reply #34 on:** April 25, 2014, 11:05:58 am »

So the forum is elitist, glynor is arrogant, and I'm patronizing, dismissive, and condescending.

I hope you find another, friendlier place, more to your liking.

glynor · « **Reply #35 on:** April 25, 2014, 12:37:35 pm »

Woah, buddy. You completely misinterpreted my comments. It is likely way too late now, but... For the record:

Quote from: glynor on April 24, 2014, 07:19:17 pm

Everything else in this thread is noise.

This meant everything from everyone in this thread other than the post (from you) that I quoted. You stated that IE doesn't work on your system at all (not just the IE engine in MC, but IE itself). Then, of course the IE engine in MC doesn't work.

I didn't mean, and never suggested, that your entire question was silly or irrelevant. But, from your own statements, it is absolutely crystal clear that there are problems on your PC related-to web browsing engines, and unrelated to MC. You have to solve that first!

All the other stuff (meaning other suggestions from helpful users in this thread) isn't necessarily relevant, and is therefore noise. Yes, you noted that Chromium doesn't work. I'm not sure, at all, how that is relevant. The Chromium engine in MC is:
1. Not the default.
2. Not recommended unless you need it for certain, specific, web content.

It also certainly could be that the problem you have generally on your machine that prevents IE from working, also prevents the Chromium engine from working. Maybe, or maybe not. But in either case, trying to diagnose the Chromium issue (again, a non-default, special setting not recommended for general use, otherwise it would be the default) while there is clearly a serious problem on your PC, is a fool's errand.

I'll give you an example of how it reads:

Quote

When I wear these sunglasses, it makes me cough terribly. Also, I can't wear the headband from the same manufacturer, because I cough then too. Of course, I should mention that I have Stage 5 Lung Cancer, but... Seriously, why do I cough only when I wear the sunglasses and headband?

It's a lot like that (obviously exaggerated example). It is absurd on the face of it. Your computer is broken if IE11 won't work on Windows 7.

But, to answer your original query: The IE11 engine works for me on a wide variety of Windows 7 machines with MC19. I don't use the Chromium engine, so I can't comment on that, though I don't dispute that there are commonly issues reported with it. As I said above, though, that's not the default option. If the IE engine is broken, you can't assume that the Chromium engine won't be broken too from the same root cause.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Browser Engine problem - Windows update - IE11 (Read 6997 times)