Topic: Frame rate problem (Read 7418 times)

maid · « **on:** June 08, 2014, 01:50:43 am »

I have used display setting switching for some time now but sometimes a file with a framerate of 25 switches to some weird setting.

I have to kill jriver to get out then the only way to play the file is by removing the FPS rate and leave blank???

6233638 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 08, 2014, 02:53:23 am »

What are you using for display mode switching?

Media Center's switcher set to "auto"?
Media Center's switcher manually configured?
The madVR (ROHQ) switcher?

maid · « **Reply #2 on:** June 08, 2014, 04:06:41 am »

maid · « **Reply #3 on:** July 26, 2014, 07:01:54 pm »

does anyone have any idea what is going on here.

Had another 25 fps file last night that went all fuzzy, Plays fine after I remove the frame rate.

Hendrik · « **Reply #4 on:** July 26, 2014, 11:48:25 pm »

Maybe your display's 50 Hz mode just doesn't work properly. You can use manual configuration to ensure proper modes are used.

maid · « **Reply #5 on:** July 27, 2014, 03:09:20 am »

What are the correct manual settings please??

maid · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2014, 08:21:13 pm »

can someone please help me with this Pal 25fps just does not switch

maid · « **Reply #7 on:** October 03, 2014, 06:41:39 pm »

tried to play TV show with 25fps came up cant play in 6 channel try changing to two channel to play.

Can someone help with this problem?

I have auto switching display.

This happens sometimes and if I remove the frame rate it plays but not this time had to play in 2 channel

6233638 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 04, 2014, 07:59:25 am »

What is your graphics card?
In Windows, are you able to select a 50Hz output?
Have you tried manually configuring Media Center's display mode switcher rather than leaving it on auto?

maid · « **Reply #9 on:** October 04, 2014, 06:46:46 pm »

We have an nvidia Card

Are you suggesting setting nvidai to 50hz?

Tried manually before but got confused.

6233638 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 04, 2014, 08:21:03 pm »

Assuming you have a 1080p display, use the following settings in the NVIDIA Control Panel.
Hit apply to test the resolution.

50Hz will only be listed if your display reports that it is an accepted resolution.
It will only work if the display actually supports it.

maid · « **Reply #11 on:** October 04, 2014, 11:05:39 pm »

This is already set on 50hz but it says the native is 1080i

I was told that this was an error in the nvidia panel and I have set mine to 1080p

6233638 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 05, 2014, 05:28:59 am »

So 1080p50 works?
What is your display?

maid · « **Reply #13 on:** October 05, 2014, 06:43:49 pm »

Sorry to be such a newb.

which display?

maid · « **Reply #14 on:** October 05, 2014, 07:10:26 pm »

TV 60hz

6233638 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 05, 2014, 07:48:37 pm »

Quote from: maid on October 05, 2014, 07:10:26 pm

TV 60hz

Sorry, I'm asking specifically what model it is so I can go look up the manual for it.

maid · « **Reply #16 on:** October 05, 2014, 08:31:30 pm »

Toshiba 32/42HL800A 42"

6233638 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 05, 2014, 08:42:44 pm »

Assuming you are conected via HDMI, it looks like the EDID is busted if it defaults to 1080i and doesn't appear to support 50Hz.
I had a similar issue with an older Toshiba which supported 1080p24 but did not report it via EDID.

Does this work?

maid · « **Reply #18 on:** October 06, 2014, 12:09:44 am »

changed setting to suit and none of the 25fps play. last settings I had some play some dont?? go figure

I have put the NVIDA to what it says is native which is the 1920x1080i 30HZ

now i can play most stuff but the odd 25FPs

What do you suggest?

6233638 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 06, 2014, 06:54:19 am »

Quote from: maid on October 06, 2014, 12:09:44 am

changed setting to suit and none of the 25fps play. last settings I had some play some dont?? go figure

I have put the NVIDA to what it says is native which is the 1920x1080i 30HZ

now i can play most stuff but the odd 25FPs

What do you suggest?

The Toshiba site says that your TV should support 1080p 24/50/60
Do not output 1080i from the PC or 25/30Hz.

maid · « **Reply #20 on:** October 06, 2014, 06:46:25 pm »

which is better 50 or 60??

6233638 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 06, 2014, 07:03:46 pm »

Quote from: maid on October 06, 2014, 06:46:25 pm

which is better 50 or 60??

Depends on the content you're watching.

60Hz is better for 30/60fps content.
50Hz is better for 25/50fps content.
24Hz is best for 24fps content.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #22 on:** October 06, 2014, 07:13:05 pm »

You are in Perth, Australia aren't you maid?

The Australian Toshiba site says that the Toshiba 42HL800A has a native resolution of 1920x1080 pixels, and supports 1080p (24/25/30/50/60Hz)(through HDMI input)
http://www.mytoshiba.com.au/products/televisions/led-backlit-tv/hl800a/42hl800a/specifications

I couldn't find a site which said otherwise. Australian releases of products are often different, due to the mess we call FTA TV over here. But it almost looks like this model is specific to Australia.

I don't know if your computer's CPU and GPU are up to it, but try this, which is the way I have my Samsung set at the moment.

First, set MC to use Red October Standard. You may be able to use ROHQ, but start with standard for now. As I have an Intel iGPU I can't use ROHQ for all Australian TV as it just stutters on certain broadcasts, due to the up scaling from standard definition, or deinterlacing our 1080i broadcasts.

Then, set your PC's Desktop resolution to 1920x1080, which is your native resolution, and the refresh rate to 60Hz.

Then in MC Options > Video > Display Settings, turn off the "Display Settings automatic change mode". Yep, that's right. Let MC up scale everything to 1920x1080, 60Hz. Under the Advanced Display Settings I have "Aspect ratio correction" set to "No correction" and "Aspect ratio mode" set to "No change". I'm not precisely sure if the Samsung TV is doing anything to the signal, but with this configuration it reports it is receiving 1920x1080 60Hz at start up, so I think that is what MC is sending.

Did it work?

If so, you could try using ROHQ, but for some Australian TV you just have to force Film Mode in the madVR settings, accessible via the right click menu when a video source is playing. With my iGPU I can't get any ROHQ settings that are better than RO Standard and still work for all TV broadcasts. At least, I haven't been able to yet. So maybe it is best to stick with RO Standard unless you know what you are doing.

maid · « **Reply #23 on:** October 06, 2014, 07:51:06 pm »

I will try that thanks.

Most of the tv stuff we watch is downloaded and we occasionally have problems with the 25fps stuff.

I had automatic display checked as we watch a range of different things and some were jumpy.

I only had to set the NVIDIA back to 1920x1080 60hz and turn off Automatic display I also use ROS

RoderickGI · « **Reply #24 on:** October 06, 2014, 08:25:17 pm »

It is a bit of a balancing act getting everything to work, and having smooth playback for all file types. My solution has been to just throw processing power at the problem. I would like to use automatic switching, but I also saw some quality issues. I haven't gone back to try to resolve them. If you do want to put time into it, 6233638 is the expert, while I am just a hack user, so when he says;

Quote from: 6233638 on October 06, 2014, 07:03:46 pm

Depends on the content you're watching.

60Hz is better for 30/60fps content.
50Hz is better for 25/50fps content.
24Hz is best for 24fps content.

believe it is correct. You do need the MC VideoClock setting turned on for those odd 23.xx, 29.yy and 59.zz refresh rates though, and I turn on Hardware acceleration as well.

Anyway, I hope this works well enough for now, and you can experiment further once you can at least play all files types. Also, as you are downloading lots of stuff, perhaps running the problem files through some software to correct any errors or issues with the files may also help. Not that I can recommend the best software for the job. I tend to use VideoReDo, but it doesn't handle all formats. I also use the free version of Any Video Converter, but you probably don't want to actually convert the files. Just demux and remux them and correct any errors in the process. Maybe 6233638 can suggest something.

6233638, feel free to disagree with, or clarify my approach.

maid · « **Reply #25 on:** October 10, 2014, 06:10:56 pm »

set to custom settings as per 6233638 instruction video clock not on.

Played a 24fps movie and it was so jumpy turned off custom display stopped jumping.

What now??

I am now using MC 20

RoderickGI · « **Reply #26 on:** October 12, 2014, 07:52:11 pm »

Which ever settings you are using, you should have Video Clock on. It smooths out small timing issues, which can stop the jumping, if timing is the cause of the problem.

Try both 6233638's recommendations ( "Display Settings automatic change mode" set to Auto with correct fps settings as above) and mine (run the TV in 1920x1080p 60Hz all the time and have MC convert to that format) and see if either work better.

When you are having problems with a file, check both your CPU and GPU loads. If any individual CPU core, or the GPU ever goes over 80% load, that could be your problem.

Check CPU load Windows Resource Monitor, accessible via the Windows Task Manager Performance tab.
Check GPU load using the "Sensors" tab in GPU-Z, or your NVidia software if it has a better display.

Note that on my HTPC, upscaling from Standard Definition 720x576 @ 25fps interlaced PAL TV to 1080p @ 60fps isn't a problem.
However deinterlacing Australia's HD 1080i 1440x1080 @ 25fps interlaced PAL TV and running it at 25fps is a problem. From memory this caused one CPU core to run at 87% load and caused jumpiness. Strangely, upscaling the same source to 1080p isn't a problem for RO Standard.

So when you have a file that doesn't play well, check what is actually in it using MediaInfo, and consider not just the fps, but the Bit Rate, whether it is interlaced, the original resolution, and the colour standard (PAL or NTSC). All can have different effects on CPU and GPU load.

maid · « **Reply #27 on:** October 12, 2014, 08:02:15 pm »

most of the problem is that I have is that some 25fps switch to some really weird looking format.
like really small window all blurry with like double vision.

There probably is a technical term for it but I dont know it

Also I thought video clock was not to be used when connected with HDMI

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #28 on:** October 13, 2014, 03:16:01 am »

Quote from: maid on October 12, 2014, 08:02:15 pm

Also I thought video clock was not to be used when connected with HDMI

No, videoclock can be turned on always, unless your cpu is really slow and can't cope with the slowing/speeding up of audio (unlikely on relatively modern hardware).

If the video fps match the refresh rate (almost) perfectly, videoclock won't do anything. But if they don't match, video clock will smooth out most of the choppies.

Can't comment on your other problem, sorry.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #29 on:** October 13, 2014, 03:37:30 pm »

Quote from: maid on October 12, 2014, 08:02:15 pm

most of the problem is that I have is that some 25fps switch to some really weird looking format.
like really small window all blurry with like double vision.

Post a screen shot of the problem and someone may recognise what is going on.

Did you check your CPU and GPU loads?

BTW, you aren't bitstreaming your audio are you?

maid · « **Reply #30 on:** October 13, 2014, 06:18:50 pm »

Yes using HDMI for bitstreaming

CPU loads are fine

last night I changed the 25fps show to 23.98 and walla it worked

RoderickGI · « **Reply #31 on:** October 13, 2014, 09:54:53 pm »

Quote from: maid on October 13, 2014, 06:18:50 pm

Yes using HDMI for bitstreaming

Ah well, I think I read somewhere that it is a problem using Video Clock if you are bitstreaming. Which is why I asked when you mentioned HDMI. It may not hurt, but I don't think it won't do anything as bitstreaming won't alter the audio stream, and that is how Video Clock keeps the video and audio sync'd; but varying the audio stream speed.

Anyway, at least you have a workable solution.

There is another thread with similar problems by the way, over here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92476.msg637093;topicseen#new

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Frame rate problem (Read 7418 times)