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[hoyt]

I'm trying to troubleshoot a problem and have a few questions.  I've taped the last few World Series games using OTA, but then the recordings look bad (choppy, digital noise, jumps around, etc).  I thought perhaps the antenna was the issue (I recently moved), so I went and bought a new antenna.  I'm <10 miles from the Sutro Tower in the Bay Area, so reception should not be an issue.  The problem persisted with the new antenna, though perhaps slightly better.  Fox in particular shows 100% Symbol Quality, 90% Signal Quality and 79% Signal Strength.

I'm using an HDHomeRun and when I view Fox on my Mac (using the HDHomeRun software), the reception is perfect.  So then I thought perhaps the issue was writing the live TV files directly to my NAS.  So I changed the TV directory to an attached SATA drive.  No change.

Now I'm in Theatre View on a client computer watching live Fox and the picture is perfect (watched for 5 minutes).  I then stopped viewing live and set it to record.  The playback of the recording now has some of the same issues (within the first 2 minutes).

What does a recording do differently than live viewing?  I don't know what else to troubleshoot/ change but with another game in 6 hours that I hope to record, I'm not confident that using MC will produce a watchable recording...  Does watching live on a client stream through the server?  Wondering if there's a problem with the server's ability to deal with the bandwidth when recording from the HDHomeRun, but if playing live via a client does the same, then that's a non-issue.

Thanks!

[JimH]

Try switching video to Red October Standard.

[hoyt]

Try switching video to Red October Standard.

I'll give that a shot.  I stupidly deleted the recordings from last night already.  Does the live play use a different playback method that would automatically not use ROHQ?

I reformatted this PC recently and know that previously I had issues with RO Standard, but haven't tried it since I reinstalled a fresh Windows 10 install.

[CountryBumkin]

Are you recording in JTV format or TS format? I prefer TS.

[hoyt]

Are you recording in JTV format or TS format? I prefer TS.

JTV because I want to start watching mid-stream sometimes.  I could try TS to see if it improves it.  Tonight I plan on watching it live incase it doesn't record well again, but I'll also leave the recording schedule going.

I checked and the fresh install set it to Red October Standard already. 

[RoderickGI]

Does watching live on a client stream through the server?  Wondering if there's a problem with the server's ability to deal with the bandwidth when recording from the HDHomeRun, but if playing live via a client does the same, then that's a non-issue.

If MC tuners are set up correctly, connected to the server only, then yes, the server controls the stream from the HDHomeRun and streams it to the Client. If you have Time Shifting on, MC will still be saving JTV Time Shift files on the server, even though you are watching on the Client.

Reading your description of the problem (choppy, digital noise, jumps around, etc), it really does sound like a poor signal problem. The HDHomeRun software may do something special to handle that situation, and hence show a better picture. As you report that Live TV plays fine on a Client, that creates some doubt in my mind, but that could be a timing coincidence. Or Live TV on a MC Client does the same thing that the HDHomeRun software does to remove the problem, like dropping incomplete frames.

Does the HDHomeRUn software allow recording and then playback, and if so, does the recording show the problem?

If you watch TV on the MC Client without recording, but Time Shift the program a small amount, does the problem re-appear?


Regardless, I never see less than 100% Signal Quality and Strength since I replaced my antenna. I had a TV Antenna company install it for me, as they have the equipment to test the signal strength and in my case, point it at the strongest signal source, and add a high quality splitter for the three outlets I have. You should note that sometimes a signal that is too strong is just as bad as a signal that isn't strong enough, in which case an installer will use an In Line Attenuator. Did you use a TV Antenna company, or just buy a new antenna and replace it yourself?

Of course there could be other PC hardware, network bandwidth or reliability issues, but I would go back to the signal quality/strength from the antenna and see if it is doing its job properly.

PS: Enjoy the game live. Also, what version of MC are you using?

[hoyt]

Reading your description of the problem (choppy, digital noise, jumps around, etc), it really does sound like a poor signal problem. The HDHomeRun software may do something special to handle that situation, and hence show a better picture. As you report that Live TV plays fine on a Client, that creates some doubt in my mind, but that could be a timing coincidence. Or Live TV on a MC Client does the same thing that the HDHomeRun software does to remove the problem, like dropping incomplete frames.

It could be a coincidence for sure.  But the weather has been fairly decent here the last few days and I had some major continual problems with last night's game.  I'm watching the pre-game live now and it looks fine.  So possibly the case...  I also wondered if the signal hiccups once, does the whole stream become problematic?

Does the HDHomeRUn software allow recording and then playback, and if so, does the recording show the problem?

No, it's very basic.

If you watch TV on the MC Client without recording, but Time Shift the program a small amount, does the problem re-appear?

I'll play with that later if the problem reappers tonight, or on an NFL game this weekend.

Regardless, I never see less than 100% Signal Quality and Strength since I replaced my antenna. I had a TV Antenna company install it for me, as they have the equipment to test the signal strength and in my case, point it at the strongest signal source, and add a high quality splitter for the three outlets I have. You should note that sometimes a signal that is too strong is just as bad as a signal that isn't strong enough, in which case an installer will use an In Line Attenuator. Did you use a TV Antenna company, or just buy a new antenna and replace it yourself?

I installed it myself (house is going under remodel now, so I took the opportunity to run some coax through an open wall frame to the attic).  I read that a strong signal could be an issue, so I didn't install the signal amplifier that came with the antenna.  I had a cheap amplifier on the prior antenna and it clearly improved the channel scan when I removed it, so I started without one on this setup.  Had not thought of attenuating the signal.  I also hadn't thought of hiring a company, might not be a bad idea I guess.  I'm in an odd area because there's TV signal coming from a wide variety of directions (https://www.antennaweb.org/Stations?Address=94501&AntennaHeight=False&Latitude=37.7712165&Longitude=-122.2824021).  The Sutro Tower, 9 miles at 249* on the linked map, is the clear main point and where Fox broadcasts from.

One of the reasons I wanted to make sure to watch live tonight was to watch the signal strength.  When watching a recording, I'm assuming there's no way to capture that data.  I figured I'd keep my laptop handy and the HD Home Run config app open that shows that.

PS: Enjoy the game live. Also, what version of MC are you using?

Thanks!  v22 (whatever the stable sub-version is).

[JimH]

You said something about being near the Mt. Sutro antenna.  In SF, the hills could still block the signal.  You need a more or less line of direct sight.

[hoyt]

You said something about being near the Mt. Sutro antenna.  In SF, the hills could still block the signal.  You need a more or less line of direct sight.

I'm across the bay now.  Previously I was in SF proper and pointing my antenna was very easy because I could see the tower (if the fog was out).  The attachment has the view of the SF skyline a few blocks from my antenna from Google street view.  Hard to see, but far to the left of the SF skyline is the Sutro tower.  Should be a pretty strong signal.

[RoderickGI]

I also hadn't thought of hiring a company, might not be a bad idea I guess.

If you use an Antenna company, make sure they are local, or regularly work in the local area. They will then know which antenna models are best for your area, whether the one you bought is suitable, and they will also know which tower it would be best for you to point at (if you have choices), in addition to measuring the signal strength and recommending and/or installing an attenuator or amplifier. Some antennas are very directional, and are best used where there are multiple signal sources, or where there are likely to be signal reflections from buildings, hills, mountains, etc. Other antennas are quite non-directional and will pick up signals from multiple sources that they aren't pointed at, which can lead to problems.

Also, typically in Australia where I live, a lot of retail antennas, splitters, and amplifiers aren't very good at all. If you know what you are doing, you can buy the good stuff, but an Antenna company is going to have the good stuff with them, and know which is best to use. Well, a good company will. Don't use some kid who has had three hours training! 

One of the reasons I wanted to make sure to watch live tonight was to watch the signal strength.  When watching a recording, I'm assuming there's no way to capture that data.  I figured I'd keep my laptop handy and the HD Home Run config app open that shows that.

Having any software that interacts with the tuner running at the same time as MC may cause issues. It doesn't sound like that is the cause of your problem, but you don't want to add another variable to the mix. You would be better off using the Signal and Quality numbers shown in MC, in the OSD. Arrow up to see them, and just check every now and then. Of course that doesn't work if you are playing Live TV on a MC Client. It only works on the MC Server. So I guess you may have to use the HDHomeRun app. Just be aware of potential issues.

I don't know of any way to capture the Signal and Quality data from a recording. I think it is just a display of the current numbers, and none of that is recorded.

[hoyt]

I just realized something...  It's the "wet" season here.  Which means SFO often gets rain delayed.  When that happens, the approach patterns change dramatically.  While I didn't notice it last night, it's certainly possible that there was low airplane activity overhead because of earlier rain.

I had to pause the game tonight (forgot I was supposed to make dinner) and it's been perfect since.  I'm not watching an active recording, but instead set the channel to record, and tuned in the channel, time shifting.  The HDHomeRun Config program shows I'm using only 1 of the 2 tuners for what it's worth. 

Seems like perhaps I could hire an antenna company to at least tell me what I could change.  I'll check the recording later to see if it has any of the choppy artifacts that I observed yesterday.