Topic: Apology (Read 3381 times)

JimH · « **on:** January 10, 2019, 06:39:17 pm »

To the people who think we offer upgrades too often or provide no significant improvements from one version to another, I want to apologize. I mean that. I want you to be happy with JRiver.

I can only tell you that we bust our asses to give you what you want, within our capabilities.

You may not know that it's only Matt and me here. The rest of the guys who post for JRiver are played by Matt's dog. He's gotten good at it, even plays different temperaments as needed. Deanna is hard, but he's just a dog.

Brownie has been getting some hate mail today and he's gone out for a quick one at The 1029. He's got courage though. He'll be back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you%27re_a_dog

RoderickGI · « **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2019, 07:48:19 pm »

I reckon it's the other way around and you do play the part of some of the more difficult users on the forum sometimes Jim, just to test the Beta team, or potential new members of the team!

So mean of you!

jmone · « **Reply #2 on:** January 10, 2019, 08:23:27 pm »

I think the MC Licencing Models (while unique) is a great model,
- Buy a Perpetual Licence for the Major Version at the time and get free Point Upgrades for about a year.
- New Major Versions come out about Once per year and for a modest amount you can upgrade to the next Major Version.
- Rinse and Repeat as it suits.

If you are happy with the state of MC for your setup, you don't have to upgrade... Just wait. As MC development progresses you can always see at what point (if ever) it become value for money for you.

Personally, I'm fine with the yearly upgrade price point so happy to pay in advance (and get the discount).

1maynard · « **Reply #3 on:** January 10, 2019, 09:20:22 pm »

I have no problem at all paying for a yearly update. Look how much bang for your buck you get for the $19.98 it costs. If you want to wait and see $29.98 is still a super deal. Guys you can do what you want if you feel it is not worth it. No one is twisting your arm to buy the upgrade. MC is still the most trouble free Media Center software out there.

~OHM~ · « **Reply #4 on:** January 10, 2019, 10:20:16 pm »

Quote from: JimH on January 10, 2019, 06:39:17 pm

To the people who think we offer upgrades too often or provide no significant improvements from one version to another, I want to apologize. I mean that. I want you to be happy with JRiver.

I can only tell you that we bust our asses to give you what you want, within our capabilities.

You may not know that it's only Matt and me here. The rest of the guys who post for JRiver are played by Matt's dog. He's gotten good at it, even plays different temperaments as needed. Deanna is hard, but he's just a dog.

Brownie has been getting some hate mail today and he's gone out for a quick one at The 1029. He's got courage though. He'll be back.

Ok who are you and what have you done with OUR JimH?

Elric · « **Reply #5 on:** January 11, 2019, 01:49:59 am »

Jim, et all:

I want to say thank you for all the work that goes into Media Centre.
I have been a customer for several years now, and of course I picked up a new master license.

again thank you.

mattkhan · « **Reply #6 on:** January 11, 2019, 02:32:26 am »

@wer your suggested model is that used by jetbrains and I think their development model is quite similar in terms of continual improvement making you always want the latest version

It is basically a perpetual licence for any version for which you have paid 12 months subscription for. In JRiver terms, who don't have a monthly subscription option, this means a perpetual licence to the version publicly available at the time of purchase.

I would agree this seems a fairer model from the consumer point of view as it removes that cliff edge aspect.

https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What-is-perpetual-fallback-license-

Note that they use a major.minor version scheme which is roughly quarterly (2019.1 is next) which I think fits this model better than a single annual version.

Spike1000 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 11, 2019, 03:24:30 am »

My 2p.

For the fist time I've wavered in buying the reduced upgrade price offer for the next version of MC. . . It's not the price/value as that remains excellent. It's difficult to pin down, but it's more along the lines the continual conveyor belt of minor updates with no real end point (even a milestone along the way). I think I'm just getting weary and maybe need to take a rest.

Things that I'd like to see.
Say, quarterly, major updates (25.1.0, 25.2.0 etc); with minor bug fixes in between (25.1.1, 25.1.2 etc).
These 'major' updates would be the tried, (very well) tested and stable releases and would be released on the stable channel, the bug fixes being released on the 'latest channel'. This means that only 4 versions a year would require very deep and thorough testing. This also means that some bug fixes may not become available for up to 3 months, but when that are released the version is stable and well tested (not every bug fix would make it to a minor (eg 25.1.1) release). Taking your toe off the development gas pedal a bit would stop the bug fix 'firefighting' and allow a bit of breathing space for focussed planned feature development and stable releases.

A road map. What's planned for the next major (quarterly) releases. Next full version release.

Clear details of how MC integrates to other streaming services documented in one place. What can be done and what can't. The market for having your own media files is facing stiff competition from many many streaming services. MC can sit in the middle so evangelise about and put instructions on what and how it can be done.

Maybe the technical capabilities of MC hare reached a hiatus for now and it's time to take a step back and address some of the other thorny issues that have been too big to tackle. The user experience, user interface for example. MC is complicated to use/learn and looks a bit dated. Maybe you could plan something to address parts of this and advertise them on the road map.

Take a day or two from development and produce some walk through videos describing the great features that MC has that maybe *80% of users never find. . .

Just my 2p.

Obviously keep up the good work. I do really appreciate your product and your work but appreciate it even more if I knew where it was going in the future. But I also appreciate that you are highly unlikely to change the way you work at the behest of a customer

; so as I said, just my 2p.

Spike

* Obviously a made up number, but you get my drift

rec head · « **Reply #8 on:** January 11, 2019, 07:46:18 am »

Quote from: wer on January 10, 2019, 10:37:49 pm

A while back there was a thread from Jim requesting suggestions for "too easy" improvements...

I have made at least one simple suggestion that was included in the next update after I posted.

dtc · « **Reply #9 on:** January 11, 2019, 07:56:18 am »

So, who is on slipper duty when Matt's dog is going all this work?

gappie · « **Reply #10 on:** January 11, 2019, 07:58:40 am »

i think there are 3 pieces of software i dont want to do without. MC is one of them. and i use it everyday. i pay the money happily, it is worth it.

gab

MikeO · « **Reply #11 on:** January 11, 2019, 08:50:42 am »

I don’t know the Starbucks price list but $20 must be 6-8 lattes, we don’t have em in South Africa but here it’s 8 lattes ....

Come on.

I like the 2 week release cycle, I have been using MC for 7 years for audio and video, the only bug I can even remember was one with CUE files that was fixed in an ooops flash.

I have used many software products, I retired as a MS developer for my company , there are VERY few that just work.

Any product can be improved but MC is IMHO always stable no matter what’s being added.

PayPal is doing its stuff as we speak

JimH · « **Reply #12 on:** January 11, 2019, 09:02:13 am »

Split Stability vs. Features

JimH · « **Reply #13 on:** January 11, 2019, 12:14:24 pm »

Quote from: MikeO on January 11, 2019, 08:50:42 am

Any product can be improved but MC is IMHO always stable no matter what’s being added.

PayPal is doing its stuff as we speak

Thanks for saying so.

swiv3d · « **Reply #14 on:** January 11, 2019, 04:44:13 pm »

Apologising for bringing us the best media experience ever for a modest price - What is the world coming too? If it was a subscription service I would be the first to bale out - this way I have a choice to upgrade or to defer.

PS - someone should take Jim's bourbon away!

MountainKing · « **Reply #15 on:** January 11, 2019, 07:37:56 pm »

It's $20 a year, I'm not sure why that's an issue for anybody considering a lot of people who use JRiver spend in the thousands a year on audio equipment/upgrades ect. Negotiate $20 off your next speaker purchase and you'll be good next year, or just throw $2 away in the bank a month and you'll have enough to get the next upgrade and a cup of coffee!

SirTom2015 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 12, 2019, 12:02:33 pm »

I have been an avid JRiver user since MC20. I know that is not that long, but I really love this product. I stumbled upon JRiver by a simple Google search looking for a media player product that could handle large libraries well and not be that that complicated to use for basic media playback. JRiver blew me away with it's ability to handle very large libraries of different media types for video and audio files. I was previously using Media Monkey. Mediamonkey is great for very basic features but handles large libraries horribly. I love jrive and have since become quite adept at using some of it's features. It is now my exclusive media handler. I got rid of Mediamonkey and VLC player as I no longer have a need for them. I love the ease of using my media player and it's networking ability. I like streaming services, but I really like streaming my own media much more and JRiver made that very easy to do.

I have purchased the upgrade every year and I will purchase the one this year, but this time I am going for the master license as I am setting up a linux based media server in my home and I will need a license for both Windows and Linux.

all of this praise, how could I ever say anything is wrong with the product. I really can't. I do echo the same sentiments as others have wishing there was a roadmap to new features that may be forthcoming in the new releases before I decide on upgrading as it would make the decision to upgrade much easier to make, however, because I need the Master License this year, it will not affect my decision to upgrade this year regardless.

I like the business model of JRiver and I support it. I do think it could be tweaked though. JRiver is an excellent product and combines more features that really are not that hard to learn right out of the box. If I have ever had a problem with using the product, the response times to inquiries is really quite amazing. It really is a no brainer to keep on supporting the development here. But every company must grow and little tweaks like future feature highlighting lead to retaining the current customer base, and then word of mouth from current happy customers helps to grow that base.

Out of all the products available though, I think anyone would be hard pressed to say there is something better to use, that offers such a wide array of support for the many types of digital media products we consume. I love JRiver. I have MC20, 21,22,23,24...and I will have MC25. Keep up the great work you all do, and thank you for reading my 2 cents. worth.

Manfred · « **Reply #17 on:** January 13, 2019, 06:43:56 am »

There are a lot of license models on the market, I think the MC Licence model is pretty fair. You pay the initial license for one year and then you pay (if you want) for each additional year (New release) $20 or a little bit more for the master license and an small add-on for JRemote.

Compared to the media assets under management one has (e.g., assumption is 10 € average for one music album and 15 € for one BD, # of Album's & BD's each 200 to make it simple; 200 Album's -> 2000 € + 200 BD's-> 3000€ = 5000 € for media) + Computer Hardware + Hifi Gear, the Price of MC is worth every penny from my PoV.

Inquisition · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2019, 10:50:51 pm »

I make it short, I am using jriver since version 18 or 19 and it's the best mc software I think. No kodi or mediaportal or what else make it as good as mc.

So I pay happily for the next major upgrade, it is worth it and the team makes an good job.

And like some says, we are talking about 20 dollar. We wasting so much money so what's the problem?

jabo1961 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 15, 2019, 11:56:17 pm »

Quote from: Inquisition on January 15, 2019, 10:50:51 pm

I make it short, I am using jriver since version 18 or 19 and it's the best mc software I think. No kodi or mediaportal or what else make it as good as mc.

So I pay happily for the next major upgrade, it is worth it and the team makes an good job.

And like some says, we are talking about 20 dollar. We wasting so much money so what's the problem?

Hear hear , I've had it since MC17 , initially for audio only , now it handles both audio and video and I couldn't be happier. A small price to pay for ,quite simply, supreme quality software.

biblio · « **Reply #20 on:** January 16, 2019, 12:05:10 am »

I only just bought it for the first time after being aware of MC for the better part of 10 years.

Cost for me has been prohibitive as i was really only interested in audio tagging.

I'll probably hold onto a 25 license for a few years unless a new feature comes out that i want or i get further into the MC features. Now that i've bought, i am actually really interested in Android and media network/MCWS.

Ferdi · « **Reply #21 on:** January 16, 2019, 01:22:41 pm »

I really don't get the discussion and why people are upset. You get what you pay for. A high quality product for audio, video, photos, TV - what ever the reasons are you make a purchase in the first place.

It is absolutely up to anyone to pay for an upgrade. Pay once, use it forever.

Personally, I look at the upgrade payments as a donation.
That is because for quite a few years, there hasn't been any innovation that I actually use or benefit from (at least I believe so): I edit and add to my music library, I stream it at home or from away.

There's a few things that I wish would be done differently, or that I wish that would be implemented. I mentioned all of these things multiple times on the forum or in DM's, and I understand that none of my wishes will be implemented. I also often disagree with view pointes represented by JRiver. And that's cool! (with the caveat that I might stop using MC at some stage because the world moves on and habits change, e.g., Spotify, Sonos)

But: I got what I paid for, many times over. And it continues to be an awesome ride, from early JukeBox days on!

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Author Topic: Apology (Read 3381 times)

swiv3d