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Author Topic: Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices  (Read 5834 times)

Russell

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Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices
« on: September 27, 2004, 03:53:14 pm »

There are a number of network audio devices on the market.  I know that there has been some mention of similar devices before, but I have not found a definitive answer from J River about support for this type of appliance.  

It would be very useful to be able to control a device like this as a zone (or something similar) through a MC client.  Could you guys devise some general way of accomplishing this for this class of devices?  For example, I think that most of these devices will tune into internet radio.  Could MC be made to emulate an Internet radio with different zones representing a different station?  Thus, you could select music using the powerful MC interface and could tune in from your LAN or the Internet in general.  If this could be done, I would like the option of streaming WAV (along with track info, if possible), so that I could play my lossless audio (APE) on a stereo through a dedicated network device.

Would anyone else find else functionality useful?
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JimH

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Re:Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2004, 03:56:14 pm »

Russell,
There is a UPnP thread near the top of this board.  Also try searching for UPnP to read about the current status.

Jim
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Russell

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Re:Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2004, 05:42:19 pm »

I read through the uPnP discussion, and searched the forum for other references, but I cannot figure out how this applies to the suggestion I made.

I also do not understand why this message was relegated to this sparsely attended thread.  My comment applies to MC moreso than the devices.

Does uPnP somehow allow me to use MC to push a stream to a dedicated network player?  I have also seen a number of references to partial or unreliable support for uPnP (I understand that this is due to noncompliance of other vendors with published standards).  What kind of functionality should I expect if I decide to try one of these devices, be it SONY, Linksys, Apple Airport, or something else?

Russell
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JimH

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Re:Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2004, 06:41:04 pm »

Sony Roomlink works.  TiVo works.  Nothing else does at this time.
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steje

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Re:Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2004, 01:52:38 am »

Hey Rusell... heck yeah I would find that kind of functionality useful, and I just unknowingly posted almost the same question as you've posed albeit regarding a specific device I just purchased from Happauge - their MediaMVP. The stock software that serves the unit it's media is quite basic and lacking in both polish and functionality, though there are several worthwhile projects out there to extend the functionality that I'm looking into.

I don't currently own MC, though the trials I've evaluated over the years up until the current release have convinced me to spend my money on it now...

Is it possible that JRiver might be willing to help instruct us to try and integrate a unit such as the MVP with MC ourselves? Are there any api's that are available for doing such a thing? I'm a software developer that's been looking for some fun project to work on... MVP will be it, and I'd really like to base it around MC...
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Rob L

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Re:Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2004, 04:37:42 pm »

It really wouldn't be difficult to create a plugin for MC that allowed you to access from a UPnP playback device.

I've already done exactly that for the non-UPnP Philips Streamium; I didn't bother trying to do the same for UPnP devices (although I do have one) - I didn't have the time to research UPnP well enough, but there's plenty of documentation and SDK stuff on the Intel site to sort out that side of it.

The hooking-into-MC bit is easy though, and pretty much everything you need for that is in the MC DevZone (link at the top of this screen ^) except maybe the info about the actual streaming of the file itself, but it's not too hard to work that bit out :-)


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steje

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Re:Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2004, 09:48:57 pm »

Hi Rob... Good looking out about the MC Devzone suggestion... There's so much content all over the forums that it seems easy to miss even what's supposed to be 'obvious'... thanks. I saw your reply to the other thread I started specifically bout the MVP, and at this point since I'm thoroughly unimpressed with the audio playback quality, I don't think I'll be putting much original effort into any MVP integration. I won't get rid of the thing... I'll mess around with basic stuff that other people are doing for the unit on other forums and try to fix things I come across, but certainly won't waste time trying to start something new with what so far seems to be an unexciting device.

You mentioned the Phillips Streamium... what model do you have? The Computer Shopper review I just read shows the SL300i model to indeed be a UPnP device. What's your overall experience with the unit like and how has your plugin for MC served you so far? Also, what's the scope of your plugin... does it change/replace the interface the unit displays on the TV? A common 'feature' of most all the network media playback devices like these seems to be that the interfaces are plain old clunky and unpolished. You also seemed to have read up on the MVP a bit... so I'm curious what other devices you researched before settling on the Phillips unit? Knowing that you got it to interface in some fashion with MC is a good thing... but was there any particular reviews or possibly "roundup" type comparisons you checked out before buying it? The Streamium is way more expensive than the MVP, but it seems I've "gotten what I paid for" in the MVP. With the price tag on the Phillips though, it would take a really good review for me to plunk down the cash for it as opposed to just footing the bill for a full blown HTPC, and buying MC to run in Theater/Kiosk mode or something.
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Rob L

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Re:Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2004, 06:58:06 am »

Ah, well, you see... the Streamium I've got is different in a few ways, not just the fact that it isn't (currently) UPnP. For instance, it only does music. It's actually the MC-i250.

I wanted a complete mini hi-fi system for the bedroom, and that's what I've got. So the interface is completely built into the system, displayed on its LED display and can't be changed (except by a firmware update).

Price wasn't a big factor for me, because I don't think there are still any competitors: if you want a wifi all-in-one hifi that streams your music from your PC, this is the only one I'm aware of (or potentially other similar Philips products)

I do have two other devices though: I bought a Netgear MP101 for the living room; from the various forums for that, people have mixed feelings about it, as do I. It is UPnP, but again it has its own internal display, and you can't change that. It's cheaper than the MVP, but only does music and doesn't connect to a telly; and that's what I originally wanted.

But because I really wasn't that happy with that, I then bought the Pinnacle Showcenter, figured that since it was right next to the telly anyway, the fact that you needed the telly on to browse music wasn't actually that big a deal. Plus it had the bonus that I could browse photos and videos if I really wanted to. (I'd looked at it originally, but at the time it didn't come with wireless, and that had changed in the meantime). The Showcenter isn't UPnP, though, but as it happens, I'm quite pleased with the software you get with it. The device certainly isn't perfect, but it's clear that Pinnacle are supporting it a bit better than Netgear are supporting their device. And because the networking side of it is actually quite simple (it's basically just webpages, generated using PHP!, which you can actually fairly easily tweak yourself) there are already open source equivalents available.

In terms of what my code did, it does change the interface a little, in that it basically exposes the view schemes to the Streamium. So where the Philips software (and MusicMatch's software is pretty much the same, whether you're using MusicMatch's UPnP support or its MC-i250 support) pretty much only allows you to browse by artist, album, genre, I've been able to set it up so I can browse pretty much how I like,

There's a big limitation though: the MC-i250 refers to everything using something like an 8-digit number (can't remember how many digits off the top of my head) which means that in practice you can't browse a really deep tree structure from Media Centre, or it just overflows those 8 digits really quickly! It's not helped if you have >10,000 items stored in MC either, but there's nothing I can do about that. I don't think UPnP has anything like that limitation though.

I've often thought that one of the best ways to get UPnP support into MC would be to get Twonky to interface with it. It currently interfaces with WinAmp (and I have a feeling support for one other application was recently added, but I might have imagined that bit!) or works in standalone mode. In any event, Twonky (which you can get from www.twonkyvision.de) is widely reckoned to be the best way to serve UPnP AV at the moment. There's more information about it at www.media-servers.com


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steje

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Re:Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2004, 10:18:28 pm »

Well gee Rob, thanks. That's good information, I'm curious if you've done any reading up on the SL300i model from Phillips... I think I'll continue to look at devices like these for bedrooms and such, but with the night and day difference in just the audio quality alone between dedicated sounds cards like the M-Audio and these sorts of network media devices, I think theres no option other than a full blown HTPC rig for my 'main' entertainment center. That's a shame, but I imagine time will weed out the poor performers a bit and make way for more solid devices. Just hope interest in them doesn't fizzle out... how long before we start seeing our Pioneer, Kenwood, and Sony mainstream receivers start coming with integrated network interfaces for this purpose? I think this one post I read said it right... most home theater receivers just HAVE to have better D/A converters than these network devices if nothing else.
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BigAl

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Re:Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2004, 08:28:34 am »

Hey Russell, did you get anywhere with this?  I'm after the same thing.  Not UPnP (which I think is PULL from a media server), but a PUSH from MC.  Barix (www.barix.com) have a receiver device and provide a Virtual Audio Card which I assume you set up as a zone in MC.  I'd like to see this kind of push streaming with MC to a device like the Netgear MP101 (cheaper than the Barix).  I'd like control all zones using MC/NetRemote rather than using  the receivers menus.

Al.
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Russell

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Re:Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2004, 09:18:38 am »

No, I have not heard anything more about this idea.  It seems like developing a general method for controlling dedicted audio devices is virtually a requirement for continuing to build market share, particularlly in retail establishments like Best Buy.

I do not know to what extent the new Library Server functionality may help.  I downloaded v105 of MC 11 yesterday and have not been able to get either Media Server or Library Server to work.  I am hoping that a future build will soon resolve this problem.

I have looked into the information on Barix's site.  Their solution might work well.  Do you know anyone who has experience with setting up zones in MC using Barix's Virtual Audio Card and Exstreamer?  I noticed that Exstreamer said that it will support WAV in (future versions).  Does anyone know the time scale for this?

Russell
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JimH

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Re: Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2004, 04:12:18 pm »

There is a VERY early version of a UPnP plug-in for MC11 here:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=25171.0
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JimH

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Re: Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2005, 09:53:04 am »

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JimH

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Re:Making Media Center Stream to Dedicated Devices
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2005, 09:56:07 am »

Do you know anyone who has experience with setting up zones in MC using Barix's Virtual Audio Card and Exstreamer?
Russell,
I just noticed this post.  I hope you were able to find user Mastiff's site on multi-zone.  Just find one of his posts and follow the link in his signature.
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