Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[MarkCoutinho]

Every time I change from one program to MC the screen builds up soooo sloooowly.
First I thought I'd need a new videocard. So I put in one with 128 Mb memory.
Then I thought maybe it's the skin I'm using. But it happens with every skin.

So nothing helps so far.

To be a bit more precise. It goes well if I have 'loaded' MC once and then switch between it and another program within a few minutes. But if I leave MC be for a while the slowliness is there again.

Any suggestions please?

[Deivit]

The development team will correct if I'm wrong, but I think that this is a rather a feature than a "bug". It seems that MC unloads the database and the skins when minimized, for better overall performance. Thus, the slowliness when you restore MC from minimize.

Take a look at the new MC 11 Features in any of the builds posts:

(Quote)
New or Improved in MC 11
....
Several memory and speed enhancements -- like database and skin unloading when minimizing
...
(Unquote)

If that's correct, one could argue whether the "speed enhancements" achieved by the unloading are worth or not. They probably are.

[danrien]

definitely worth it.... it helps my games run faster by letting go of some of that precious memory......

[MarkCoutinho]

Mmm, not exactly my cup of tea if your suggestion is the right one. I'd like it always to be up and running.

Is this 'database and skin - unloading' a thing one can switch on and off as a preference?

Again: if that is the real reason of this slow screen building up.

[JimH]

How slow?

Please copy and paste your system info.  It could be a Windows swapping delay.

[MarkCoutinho]

Thanks Jim, hope you can do something with this info:

Media Center Registered 11.0.292 -- E:\Program Files\Muziek\Media Center\Version 11\

Microsoft Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 (Build 2195)
AMD Athlon 1791 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 523 MB, Free - 62 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.81 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2800.1612 (xpsp2.041207-1145) / Shell32.dll: 5.00.3900.7032 / wnaspi32.dll: 4.71 (0001) , ASPI for Win32 (95/NT) DLL, Copyright © 1989-2002 Adaptec, Inc. / Aspi32.sys: 4.71 (0001)

Ripping /   Drive Y: ASUS    DRW-1604P         Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Drive Z: ASUS    DVD-E616P         Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: No 

Burning /  Drive Y: ASUS     DRW-1604P          Addr: 1:0:0  Speed:32  MaxSpeed:32  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /  Normalization: None

[Jaqqe]

I thought this was just a "bug" or similar in MC, but now I see it is a feature, AND I HATE IT !!!

Media Center Registered 11.0.299 -- C:\Program Files (Multimedia)\Media Center 11\

Microsoft Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 (Build 2195)
AMD Athlon 2081 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1048 MB, Free - 52 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.81 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2800.1612 (xpsp2.041207-1145) / Shell32.dll: 5.00.3900.7032 / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive G:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Drive H: HL-DT-STDVD-ROM GDR8161B  Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: Yes /  Calc replay gain: No /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: No /  Play sound after ripping: No 

Burning /  Drive G: SONY     DVD RW DRU-500A    Addr: 2:0:0  Speed:24  MaxSpeed:24  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: No /  Direct decoding: No /  Write CD-Text: No
  Use playback settings: No /  Normalization: None

[GHammer]

Thanks Jim, hope you can do something with this info:

Media Center Registered 11.0.292 -- E:\Program Files\Muziek\Media Center\Version 11\

Microsoft Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 (Build 2195)
AMD Athlon 1791 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 523 MB, Free - 62 MB

With 62 Mb RAM free, it could certainly be a swapping issue.
A laptop I am using right now shows 59 Mb RAM free and it only has 128 Mb RAM total. Lots of swap usage on that one to be sure.

You might want to give Meminfo 1.70 a try. It has a memory defragger in it that seems to be useful on the laptop. And it's free, so nothing lost if it doesn't help you.

http://www.carthagosoft.net/meminfo.htm

[coolblue]

I'm all for it. I have a large (46K+) music library and for MC to keep that in memory would keep me from doing any real work (in Photoshop). The time it takes MC to grab everything back is acceptable on my system. Maybe J River could add an option at some point as to how aggressive MC should be on dumping and reclaiming its image.

[MarkCoutinho]

Thanks, Ghammer, I downloaded and installed the tool.
By the way, the 64 MB memory I had left at the time I created a system-stamp for Jim was an incident, apparantly, because now it's all the time some 200.

I keep you posted on my findings with my problems in combination with this memory-tool.

[Bill Kearney]

Only 62mb free on a half-gig machine makes me wonder what else is running that also be gobbling up a bunch of memory.  Use the task manager and turn on colums for page faults and VM size.  See just how much the various tasks are consuming and decide what needs to be running or not.   Then there issues with page file sizes and defrag.  I've always found it was best to fix the size of the virtual memory and use sysinternal's defrag and contig tools to make sure it's all in one place, often on it's own spindle.

[milknkukis]

I know this is related to paging as i can hear the disc swapping but i don't think i really need to buy 1/2 a gig of ram just to make MC restore in a reasonable time (at present it is about 4-5 seconds). I will have a play with defragging the page file and see what happens, i'll post news if anything interestiing happens.

At the time of taking the system info i had MC running,  a IE open, and WinTV running. I have the usual security stuff in the background, plus VNC, azureus... i think that's it. The only other thing which might affect my system is that it runs 24/7.

cheers
mark

Media Center Registered 11.0.266 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 11\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 2421 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 523 MB, Free - 57 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2900.2180 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158) / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2900.2668 (xpsp_sp2_gdr.050430-1553) / Shell32.dll: 6.00.2900.2620 (xpsp_sp2_gdr.050225-1820) / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive D: HL-DT-STDVD-ROM GDR8161B  Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Drive E: TEAC    CD-W548E          Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Drive G:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: Yes /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: No 

Burning /  Drive D: TEAC     CD-W548E           Addr: 1:0:0  Speed:48  MaxSpeed:48  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /  Normalization: None

[Bill Kearney]

If you're using VNC be aware that remote performance is often best when the local display is set to 16 bits and NOT to use hardware acceleration.  Mine was set to 24bpp and full hardware and VNC's performance was utterly abysmal.  Switching it to 16bpp and no acceleration GREATLY improved performance.  The onboard video's nothing specual (it's a kiosk touchscreen PC) so it's not like any great sacrifice was involved. This may be an area where VNC is not as efficient as RDP.  I only use it because it's tedious standing up at the rack using the touchscreen for anything complicated.

[glynor]

At the time of taking the system info i had MC running,  a IE open, and WinTV running. I have the usual security stuff in the background, plus VNC, azureus...

I would definately take a look at what process is consuming all that RAM.  It could be some malware (spyware or something) installed on the system...

However, be aware that running multiple applications (particularly a bunch of memory-intensive ones like the ones you listed) will degrade performance in exactly the way you describe.  Azureus can certainly be a huge memory hog.  Both Norton and McAfee's Anti-Virus/FireWall apps are terrible at wasting memory as well (Symantec Pro AV is much more reasonable... and the subscription doesn't expire).  I'd also check on which VNC Server you're using... Some of the old RealVNC 4 betas had memory leaks, and I've had lots of problems with memory leaks and performance using TightVNC Server (though I love the viewer).  I haven't used WinTV myself, but I can guess that it'd probably be a fairly heavy memory user as well.

So, basically, my point is that you were really pushing your system's RAM awfully hard from what you describe.  I wouldn't say you need to buy a 1/2GB of RAM to make MC restore in a reasonable amount of time, but you probably do need the extra RAM to run MC and Azureus and WinTV and so on all at once.  It used to be that 512MB of RAM was a gigantic amount (back in Windows98 days).  Now, I consider that to be the bare minimum for a really usable computer (and 1GB is preferred).

[glynor]

Thanks, Ghammer, I downloaded and installed the tool.
By the way, the 64 MB memory I had left at the time I created a system-stamp for Jim was an incident, apparantly, because now it's all the time some 200.

I keep you posted on my findings with my problems in combination with this memory-tool.

I thought I'd mention this post too.  If you have periods where the memory usage slowly creeps up for no apparent reason (and doesn't come back down until you reboot) you probably have some application running (maybe in the "Notification Area" by the clock) that is leaking memory.

Check for updates on all the apps you run on startup.

[milknkukis]

Wow, thanks for the info guys, some useful stuff in there.
I guess my point was, it would be nice to force MC to defend it's memory, and let the other background stuff fight over the page file. Still, not very sensible for most people, but my home machine runs MC, that's it's task, everything else is secondary.
I guess it is time i look at more ram, there are times when i really notice i don't have enough, along with HD space!
Bill, thanks for the tip about VNC and the video mode! Amazing, i have been frustrated for ages trying to work out why i get a better connection to my home machine 3 miles away than i do to the pc on the next desk! The pc on the next desk is only a P3 with onboard graphics.
No probs with security firewall, i use mcafee for virus checking (NOT the full suite) and sygate for the firewall. I have found them to slow things up in any way, unlike my systems i have used with the full norton suite or mcafee for that matter.
Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions guys, i can see i'm now going to spend some time updating various versions of things, i haven't done it in probably a year.
cheers
mark

[MarkCoutinho]

In my case the cause of the problem seems to be the fact that my virtual memory gets fragmented too often. I changed some options in Windows for this virtual memory (changed to fixed size) and I hope that will solve my problem.

[Pink Waters]

Small Test:
hold your left mouse on MC to move it and shake it on the screen horizontally and vertically and see what happens

[Jaqqe]

Small Test:
hold your left mouse on MC to move it and shake it on the screen horizontally and vertically and see what happens

Absolutely no impact on memory usage but CPU usage jumps to 75% but this is normal and applies to many windows programs. Or did I misundertand the test?

[Pink Waters]

Absolutely no impact on memory usage but CPU usage jumps to 75% but this is normal and applies to many windows programs. Or did I misundertand the test?

yeah, what i mean is to look what happens to the look of the applied skin

[jaingaurav]

I find that it is even slow with 500MB free ram, this is only when maximizing from the taskbar, not when dragging it around.

[milknkukis]

MC seems to unload itself from memory whether it needs to or not. It would be nice if it was slightly more intelligent (didn't unload till memory was running low), or the setting is optional. For a 'high performance' application like MC, i think trying to save a few megs of space in the ram is a bit ridiculous, especially when the performance hit so bad.

cheers
mark

[Jaqqe]

trying to save a few megs of space in the ram is a bit ridiculous, especially when the performance hit so bad.

Couldn't have said it better myself ! I really think this is an issue JR should really take a look at. Even MS programs seem fast compared to this.

[JimH]

Small Test:
hold your left mouse on MC to move it and shake it on the screen horizontally and vertically and see what happens

I see virtually no delay.  It moves absolutely as fast as I can move my hand.

What else are you running?

[milknkukis]

Jim
That's not the problem, it is the delay in restoring from minimised after it has been minimised for a while.
cheers for taking a look,
mark

[MarkCoutinho]

That's exactly my point too. And after using MemUsage for a while I can say it's not related to a too small amount of memory.

[rhom]

start task manager and click on View > Select Columns

enable;
Memory usage Delta
Virtual memory Size
Paged Pool
Non-paged Pool

start MC and watch it use memory, now sit there and do nothing, after a few seconds of no activity it will throw away chunks of memory, move the mouse and click on stuff it'll load it all up again.  is it supposed to do that all the time or just when minimised?

[glynor]

Hmmm.  I wonder now if this is more of a hardware-performance related problem.  I have ABSOLUTELY no issue with how quickly MC restores itself.  True, it is slightly delayed from when I click on the Taskbar item, but we are talking 1 1/2 - 2 seconds maximum.  I, personally, appreciate that MC doesn't gobble up memory unnecessarily when it isn't in use.  I generally leave MC running all the time on the machine, and I can play Doom3 and UT2004 with no problems with it running...  The only times when I see performance on MC's restore time get terrible is when I'm running some leaky P2P apps for a long time (WinMX) or I'm pounding on the machine by running a whole bunch of apps at once.  If I quit out of some of them, I can usually bring MC's performance right back....

However, on my HTPC I do have an Athlon XP-M 2500+ (oc'd a bit) running with low latency DDR400 RAM (OCZ), so I've got memory bandwidth to burn.  The CPU can't possibly fill the memory bus quickly enough to max out the RAM. 

Those of you who are seeing long delays, what kind of memory subsystem do you have on the machine?  What length (in seconds) of delay are you seeing (best/worst), and does it vary depending on how long the computer has been running since last reboot?

[Pink Waters]

I see virtually no delay. It moves absolutely as fast as I can move my hand.

What else are you running?

just shake mc in a rounded way rappidly

[JimH]

It works fine.  Maybe your video card is slow?

[Pink Waters]

no way, its geforce

[JimH]

Try shutting down anything else you're running with MC.  Plug-ins, visualizations, etc.

[Pink Waters]

Try shutting down anything else you're running with MC. Plug-ins, visualizations, etc.

Did and the same result

[Pink Waters]

Here is a Screenshot of what iam talking about.

[JimH]

Here is a Screenshot of what iam talking about.

I know what you're talking about.  I just don't know why it's happening.

Something else is going on.  Check again what else is running.  Stop playback, etc.  Check the task manager.

Copy your system info from MC Help and paste it here (when you have the problem).

[Alex B]

Pink Waters,

You may want to check your visual effects performance options in Windows Control Panel. I have all tick boxes unticked there and the performance is pretty good.

However, MC does not honor this setting:



The performance is not bad, but the edges outside the MC window look a bit similar with the Pink's screenshot when MC is dragged very fast. I have noticed that Winamp is another application that always redraws during dragging. For example, Windows Explorer, MS Word, WMP and iTunes show only an empty frame when they are dragged.

[Alex B]

The perfomance is not bad, but the edges outside the MC window look a bit similar with the Pink's screenshot when MC is dragged very fast.

I like to add that in my case MC draws correctly at the very instant when dragging is stopped.


There is another issue with redrawing the column edges. After the column widths are changed by dragging MC looks like this:



It remains like that until something else forces MC to redraw.

[jgreen]

If you're willing to try anything, try the desktop display properties specific to your graphics card, particularly nVidia.  I've noticed high cpu usage when hovering over MC, and it seems to be related to hover-over features for the geforce, maybe. 

I don't think jriver is completely off the hook, though.  I think  an advanced button in options would clear this up nicely.  The button for multimedia keyboard has saved this correspondant's bacon on a couple of occassions, as the optimal setting can change from rev to rev.

[Pink Waters]

Media Center Registered 11.0.309 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 11\

Microsoft Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 2791 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 522 MB, Free - 135 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2900.2180 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158) / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2900.2668 (xpsp_sp2_gdr.050430-1553) / Shell32.dll: 6.00.2900.2620 (xpsp_sp2_gdr.050225-1820) / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive G: TDK     CDRW121032        Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: No /  Play sound after ripping: No 

Burning /  Drive G: TDK      CDRW121032         Addr: 3:1:0  Speed:12  MaxSpeed:12  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /  Normalization: None

[MarkCoutinho]

I've got a nVidia Geforce videocard too. Would that be the cause of the problems?