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[markfaine]

My trial is about to run out and the only thing that keeps me from buying this software is its insistence on writing to my tags, and doing so incorrectly.

I use other programs to manage my tags and I don't want anything but replaygain and perhaps BPM added by MC.

I am very picky about my tags and I need to know that I can do the following before I will pay money for this software. 

This is optional but would be nice:
-  Allow me to disable writing or updating of tags entirely - should I choose to do so

The following is not optional and would be a deal breaker for me:

1.  Ability to disable writing to fields that already have values
2.  Always write UTF-8, ALWAYS
3.  Never write anything but vorbis comments to FLAC files, no ID3v-anything

These are my demands   does anyone know if perhaps I've overlooked how to set  MC to do adhere to my demands?

Thanks,
-Mark

 

[Doof]

Hate to say it, but I guess you should probably find a different media player. 

You can set it to not write to your tags at all, but those other 3 aren't there. Personally, I never got all that picky about my tags. I use MC exclusively, so as long as everything shows correctly there, I'm happy.

[markfaine]

Thanks for the reply, I don't think I'm being unreasonable with my request. It isn't like this is difficult to implement or is completely unheard of in other media management software. 

BTW, how do you disable writing altogether?  I guess I could just permanently disable tag writing until such time that MC's features catch up with my expectations, and use something else to establish replaygain and bpm.

thanks,
-Mark

[Doof]

Oh, I wasn't trying to imply you were being unreasonable. Just offering my person take on it. I'm not really all that picky about my tags so I really don't even understand the ins and outs of everything. If I were using other apps alongside MC I might care a little more, though.

To shut off tag writing entirely go to Tools->Options->General and uncheck "Update tags when file info changes".

And actually... I just remembered that you can also customize this on a per field basis. By default they're all set to write to file tags, but you can turn it off for whichever fields you don't want MC to touch. To do that, go to Tools->Options->Library & Folders and then pick either "Standard Library Fields" or "User Library Fields". Then pick the field in question, select "Edit This Field" and clear the checkbox for "Store in file tags (when possible)". So if you wanted, you could uncheck that for everything but BPM and ReplayGain for instance.

[markfaine]

Thanks Doof, also apparently MC is writing a null terminator to the end of every tag value, that is incorrect for Flac and OggVorbis. How do we get the developers attention on this?  Do they read this forum?

Thanks,
-Mark

[Alex B]

1.  Ability to disable writing to fields that already have values
2.  Always write UTF-8, ALWAYS
3.  Never write anything but vorbis comments to FLAC files, no ID3v-anything

1. As Doof explained you can disable tag writing in the field specific options, but MC does not have a feature to specifically disable tag writing for fields that have values in the physical file tags. You can disable tag writing completely if preferred in "Options > General > Update Tag When File Info Changes". MC can read your externally tagged file tags and keep its own stuff in the database. MC is designed to work with many file formats that don't allow file tagging at all.

2. Never write UTF-8, NEVER 
Seriously, if you are speaking about ID3v2.4 tag writing there was very short period when a beta version wrote only ID3v2.4 UTF-8 tags, but this was changed back to ID3v2.3 because many devices and programs are not compatible with the v2.4 format. Normally MC uses ISO 8859-1 character encoding, but it changes to UTF-16 if the tags contain characters that need unicode encoding.

3. MC does not write ID3 tags to FLAC (or Ogg Vorbis) files.

MC is writing a null terminator to the end of every tag value

How does this problem show up? Personally, I have not had any tag problems when I have used MC tagged FLAC or Ogg Vorbis files with Tag & Rename, Mp3tag, dBpoweramp, Foobar2000 or Winamp.

The only problem that I found is with the Date tag. The FLAC plugin handles the Date tag differently than other programs (this was the original plugin developer's choice and probably should be changed), but technically it works fine for me. Also embedded cover art works without any reported problems.

[ThoBar]

Do they read this forum?

Definitely. They will most likely be monitoring this thread to see what info comes out before either deciding on a course of action or commenting - though neither is garaunteed.

But be assured, they are reading.

[JimH]

But be assured, they are reading.

Yes.

[markfaine]

1. As Doof explained you can disable tag writing in the field specific options, but MC does not have a feature to specifically disable tag writing for fields that have values in the physical file tags. You can disable tag writing completely if preferred in "Options > General > Update Tag When File Info Changes". MC can read your externally tagged file tags and keep its own stuff in the database. MC is designed to work with many file formats that don't allow file tagging at all.

2. Never write UTF-8, NEVER 
Seriously, if you are speaking about ID3v2.4 tag writing there was very short period when a beta version wrote only ID3v2.4 UTF-8 tags, but this was changed back to ID3v2.3 because many devices and programs are not compatible with the v2.4 format. Normally MC uses ISO 8859-1 character encoding, but it changes to UTF-16 if the tags contain characters that need unicode encoding.

3. MC does not write ID3 tags to FLAC (or Ogg Vorbis) files.

How does this problem show up? Personally, I have not had any tag problems when I have used MC tagged FLAC or Ogg Vorbis files with Tag & Rename, Mp3tag, dBpoweramp, Foobar2000 or Winamp.

The only problem that I found is with the Date tag. The FLAC plugin handles the Date tag differently than other programs (this was the original plugin developer's choice and probably should be changed), but technically it works fine for me. Also embedded cover art works without any reported problems.

1.  It would also be useful to have another checkbox that would read: "Only write tags to empty fields" or "Don't change existing tags".  Some people use programs specifically wirtten to deal with file tagging only.  (MusicBrainz Picard, Jaikoz, etc)

2.Both UTF-8 and UTF-16 are acceptable and should be a choice presented to the user but ISO anything is verboten ( at least from my perspective) but as long as you can disable ISO and limit any tag writing to only UTF I'd be happy.

3.  OK

If you open a file that has been recently written to by JRiver in another tag editor (in my case Jaikoz) every tag that has been written to by JRiver will have a symbol at the end that looks sort of like a small square.

[markfaine]

I guess I'm giving up on MC. 

My final review goes something like this:

For $40 I'd expect a polished, professionally developed, professionally supported media management software.  JRiver delivers about 50% of this 50% of the time.

I really wanted to like JRiver since there aren't a wealth of alternatives but issues with video were the final straw. (inaccessible menus during "background" import, some video formats not imported, some formats not playable, etc)  I guess if you are OK with using it only for music, and you aren't too picky you might be OK but remember the software cost $40.  If you want to be able to automatically tag video files by filename as they are imported in the background without losing the control of your menus you are out of luck.

If MC was a free program it would be a serious contender and it would be easier to write off the issues it has as "growing pains" or the result of a small, volunteer development staff but for commercial software these issues can't be so easily overlooked.

The only support is a forum.  Don't get me wrong, I like the forum but it should be positioned as a "first line" support and an enthusiast resource but not to the exclusion of an official support channel.

It almost seems in many ways as though it is an open source project that is masqurading as a commerical project.

I do believe there is a lot that MC does right but there is too much that it doesn't do,or does incorrectly or insufficiently, for the price.

I'm hoping they correct these issues as the product matures because there are a lot of users who are too sophisticated for iTunes but find MC too flaky and limiting to pay money for.  Especially when many other media players/organizers are free. (songbird/foobar,etc)

I don't want MC to think I am being too harsh on them.  I really don't mean to be. It isn't just MC, the whole market for media players/organizers seems to be iTunes and "everything else", where "everything else" is more capable than iTunes but far less polished and usable.

I will be doing trial runs on other software but I will come back and check out MC at some point in the future if only to see how it has changed.

-Mark

[leezer3]

If you open a file that has been recently written to by JRiver in another tag editor (in my case Jaikoz) every tag that has been written to by JRiver will have a symbol at the end that looks sort of like a small square.

Shouldn't be happening
I'd check with another different tag editor again, something simple like MP3Tag first (Don't assume everything is MC's bug, there are often cases where one program uses a slightly non-standard format. To pin the blame on MC, you need to check with several different, preferably as basic as possible tag editors). Otherwise, sounds like there's a UTF/ unicode problem floating around somewhere.

I really wanted to like JRiver since there aren't a wealth of alternatives but issues with video were the final straw. (inaccessible menus during "background" import, some video formats not imported, some formats not playable, etc)  I guess if you are OK with using it only for music, and you aren't too picky you might be OK but remember the software cost $40.  If you want to be able to automatically tag video files by filename as they are imported in the background without losing the control of your menus you are out of luck.

Never seen this happening! I'd check your codecs, especially if some stuff isn't playable.
Again, my menus work perfectly during background video importation. Sounds more like there's a bug with one of your codecs, which is grabbing focus as each file is imported (MC momentarily opens & thumbnails each file. If a buggy codec grabs focus, then again the issue is nothing to do with MC.


I understand your point of view, but it seems to me that you want to pay $40 & have everything work OOTB because you have paid for it. Doesn't work like this- There's far too much stuff which isn't under MC's direct control, such as codecs or even the state of your Windows solution/ AV, and the third-party programs that you have/ are using (Two tag editors rarely go into one!). Come back with a completely new Windows install, only CCCP & MC on there, and perhaps you've got a better basis for complaint

Cheers

-Leezer-

[Mr ChriZ]

For $40 I'd expect a polished, professionally developed, professionally supported media management software.  JRiver delivers about 50% of this 50% of the time.

In your job what would you do for $40? 

If you go into a super market and buy a $40 DVD player, do you expect
it to be perfect?

The costs of developing the product to where it is now must have been great.  It's not perfect,
but it does get better day by day.

A professional product usaully refer to something which costs substantially more than $40.  They also tend to come
with a very large support fee, $3000+  Even so often the quality is not guaranteed.

For $40 it is in my opinion an exceptional product.

[JimH]

My final review goes something like this:

That's not a review.  That's a rant.  Here is the only substance I could find in it.

(inaccessible menus during "background" import, some video formats not imported, some formats not playable, etc) ..... If you want to be able to automatically tag video files by filename as they are imported in the background without losing the control of your menus you are out of luck.

I can't see where you ever reported any detail on your main problem (video formats not imported) or asked for any information on it.  As someone said above, installing the CCCP DirectShow filters solves most video problems.

Your other complaints were what I would normally call feature requests, but I don't believe you ever asked.

It seems like you have your own agenda and we don't fit with it.   

Send me an e-mail and I'll send you your money and cancel your license.

jimh at jriver

[Eccles]

For $40 I'd expect a polished, professionally developed, professionally supported media management software.

The only support is a forum.  Don't get me wrong, I like the forum but it should be positioned as a "first line" support and an enthusiast resource but not to the exclusion of an official support channel.

Your $40 and this forum get you direct contact with the developers.  Try that with triple-digit commercial software.

I guess you prefer spending 30 minutes in a hold queue before finally talking with someone from Bangalore, then waiting for three months until the next release and finding your problem still didn't get addressed.

[Deivit]

Just out of curiosity, is there any other software that can handle a library of 315,000 songs + 10,000 video clips without dying in the try? If so, I'd like to know.

Thank you.

[jgreen]

The following is my personal perspective as a happy MC customer:

If your free trial of MC software doesn't meet your needs (you seem to be comparing it against iTunes), then simply don't buy it.  But to rant that the development and the product isn't "professionally" executed is childish in the extreme.  Er, IMO. 

Where did you get such an emotional investment in this product trial?  You seem to be evaluating several different choices.  What's preventing you from simply going away quietly and using one of them--or at the least, going away?

I see nothing in your list of "demands" that can't be met by either your learning to use the software, or correcting deficiencies on your end that are creating problems.  But I certainly wouldn't recommend you risk the $40 and find out later that something else fails to meet your demands.  I think for you the best course of action is to go back to WMP, well known for finish and polish and above all, customer service. 

[fphredd]

Can't resist adding my $.02 (does that make the total cost $40.02?) as i am also in Trial mode.  I still don't have everything the way I need, mostly due to my needs, i.e. 4.3" touch screen.  May not get there within the 30 days, as I'm trying as many front ends as possible to find the 'best' match.  I plan to pay for this software as, for my $40, I'll be able to keep up to date with the latest releases and features, figuring at some point it will evolve into exactly what I seek as more and more people use touch screens.  With the amount of $ we all invest in these machines, and the cost of windoze being app. 3x the cost of JRiver (and I pay for each license--1 per machine, not as generous a policy as JRiver), I can't justify NOT paying the developers for all their time and hard work...$40 is CHEAP!

My opinion, and I'm sticking to it! 

[Matchbox]

Send me an e-mail and I'll send you your money and cancel your license.

jimh at jriver

rant rant rant, can I get my money back too?

Just kidding, the $40 and upgrade fees over the years have been well worth it!  I'd be lost without MC and it's rich feature set ( and I don't even use most of them ).

[rjm]

When he comes back in a couple months after wasting time and money to learn that nothing else comes close to the power of MC I suggest that JRiver refuse to sell him the product. We don't need jerks in this community.

[JimH]

When he comes back in a couple months after wasting time and money to learn that nothing else comes close to the power of MC I suggest that JRiver refuse to sell him the product.

A few times over the years, we've seen someone start out with demands or insults, but soften up later, and end up being OK or even friendly.  I'd like to give him another chance.  But I don't think it's likely that he'll return. 

Maybe his problem was real.  Maybe it was our fault.  But, without details, it was pretty hard to know.

[fitbrit]

When he comes back in a couple months after wasting time and money to learn that nothing else comes close to the power of MC I suggest that JRiver refuse to sell him the product. We don't need jerks in this community.

If someone learns their lesson and comes back, why should J River not welcome them. Doing anything else would only lose a customer, and perhaps many more; if someone rants before purchasing, how much more would they rant after being refused the privilege to do so later?

[bil1010105]

Why is he a jerk? Because he pointed out some perceived flaws in the usability of the program from his own perspective? Maybe I missed some deleted posts, but it seemed to me that he really wanted to like MC, but ultimately it didn't meet his needs and he stated why. If you guys have a problem with someone doing that, then quite simply you're the ones with the problem.

There are for example a number of things about MC that I (personally) don't like - and several things that annoy me greatly. One being that it's sold as an HTPC software... whereas in reality it is more an iTunes replacement with HTPC-like "add-ons". There are many better HTPC softwares out there, and several of them are free. Look around.

There's nothing wrong with being an iTunes replacement (everyone hates iTunes don't they?), but maybe thats something the marketing department can look at.

As for the rest - grow up. Constructive criticism (whether you perceive it as a "rant" or otherwise) should be encouraged for the betterment of the software for everyone. Not insulted and dragged down... it helps nobody and just makes people feel like there's some kind of 'clique' going on here, where some customers are considered "more important" than others because they've posted more or been around longer.

[/"rant" over] 

[marko]

please, lock this thread ?

[Mr ChriZ]

I was thinking it was passed it's sell by date

[JimH]

Constructive criticism (whether you perceive it as a "rant" or otherwise) should be encouraged for the betterment of the software for everyone.

I agree with the "constuctive criticism" part.  In this case, I missed the "constructive" aspect. 

Here's where he started:

The following is not optional and would be a deal breaker for me:

1.  Ability to disable writing to fields that already have values
2.  Always write UTF-8, ALWAYS
3.  Never write anything but vorbis comments to FLAC files, no ID3v-anything

These are my demands - does anyone know if perhaps I've overlooked how to set  MC to do adhere to my demands?

Locking now...