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[chirpp]

I am a rookie and could use some surround help!

I have been doing my best  to get my htpc setup to my new Marantz stereo so I can play dvd’s, record  TV using Hauppage 1600 tuner, play video games (Wii and Ps/2) and play music.

I have limited inputs to the receiver itself:
Computer (using DVD inputs on the Marantz)
Games (using analog RCA inputs )

Initially when I purchased my receiver/speakers, I connected from my computer audio card (Envy24) using the 3.5 stereo output connection to my receiver RCA jack inputs.  Everything seemed OK then. I thought I would move up in the world and go with S/pdif fiber now.  Thinking maybe it would make a difference in movies, HDTV programs and whatever else I may come across.

I rebuilt my machine and setup CCCP:
FFDShow Audio Settings “3/0/2 – 5 Channel's. And the S/pdif area I checked AC3, DTS and ACS Encode output. Everything else was default except to not show in tray.
Still using the Envy 24 card, but connected using S/pdif.  I ran the program that comes with the sound card and made sure S/pdif output was enabled. In this program I can choose to test different modes – 2 speaker, 4 speaker, 5.1, 7.1. When I choose 5.1 I can click on each speaker and it should play a sound.  Doing this test I can only get sound using the front speakers – no center or rear!
I have recorded a few over the air HD shows and am playing back some DVD rips, (video_ts format).  When I play back my HD recordings and watch a ripped DVD, the center audio is either not there, or super quiet.  I try to change my surround settings on the receiver and they don’t change anything. I also record the same program using analog input from Comcast and watching that back my center channel comes across fine.

If I watch live TV with my computer tuner, the same thing will happen with the audio – faint sound in center and most audio coming out of left and right front. 

What am I missing here!  Am I supposed to output from my sound car in stereo and let the receiver do the work on surround? I was thinking I had to output it a certain way (Thus my 3/0/2 settings in CCCP). Or change my output of the Envy to 2 channel?

I can update this with some more specific configuration information later if that would help.

[Matt]

I would recommend disabling all the FFDShow processing and using Media Center instead. 

If you're using SPDIF, in DSP Studio pick 5.1 output as Dolby Digital.

For better audio quality, you could consider using analog cables or HDMI with uncompressed audio, and not encoding as Dolby Digital.  With that said, Dolby Digital over SPDIF sounds very good.

[chirpp]

So are you saying if I go back to my original connection using 3.5" plug and rca connectors my audio is better than S/pdif? I thought S/pdif was better.

[Matt]

So are you saying if I go back to my original connection using 3.5" plug and rca connectors my audio is better than S/pdif? I thought S/pdif was better.

S/PDIF is easier, and sounds good.  But in terms of absolute quality of the connection, analog or uncompressed PCM over HDMI is better.

Over S/PDIF, you must encode surround sound as Dolby Digital.  This is a lossy process, like encoding to MP3.

To do surround sound with analog, you need six (or eight) RCA plugs.  Only some receivers support this.  And for it to sound good requires good analog outputs on your soundcard.

This can all get a little complicated because you have to decide how to connect things and then whether the computer or stereo should do the most processing.

I'm in the camp that the computer (Media Center) is the best audio processing engine and should be used for as much as possible.

[nwboater]

You have to decide where you want the DAC's (Digital to Analog Converters) to be: In the PC or in the receiver. Whichever has the better DACs will have a big effect on the sound quality. Marantz is typically good quality gear, but the DACs on your Envy 24 soundcard may be better. You should  realize that if you use SPDIF out of the soundcard that you are totally bypassing the DACs and all analog on your soundcard.

But as Matt mentioned not all receivers can take 8 channels of analog in. Does yours? If not then you may have no choice but to go digital (SPDIF) to the receiver, or go back to your analog stereo from soundcard to receiver.

Good luck.

Rod

[chirpp]

Matt: Thanks! I appreciate your advice. I am probably getting into this deeper than I need to!

I will stick with the S/pdif cable and make the changes as you recommended.  My guess is my broken ears from too many years of drumming won't hear the imperfections!  I can hear the difference from 320 mp3's to 128 but I cannot imagine this difference you mention would be that drastic.

2 other questions if I may:
1) If I am getting this straight, I just am telling my program what output to encode and send audio out with. Then the receiver picks it up, decodes and separates to the correct channels. If so, should I be doing anything with my sound card settings? It is set at S/pdif output enabled and AC3 or PCM auto. Do I still select 5.1 on the sound card program? or just 2?

2) If, by chance, I happen to use Sagetv for TV, do I need to work with their settings to get audio encoding setup correctly, similar to MC?

NWboater:
My guess is the marantz is a better DAC.  The card I bought was about $20.00 local so I am not thinking it is too high end. If I think the receiver is better dac all around, I am not sure how to then tell my receiver it is the DAC. If I understand Matt, choosing MC in DSP Studio is telling the computer to be the dac, right?

[nwboater]

"2 other questions if I may:
1) If I am getting this straight, I just am telling my program what output to encode and send audio out with. Then the receiver picks it up, decodes and separates to the correct channels. If so, should I be doing anything with my sound card settings? It is set at S/pdif output enabled and AC3 or PCM auto. Do I still select 5.1 on the sound card program? or just 2?"

Using SPDIF I would set 5.1 on the sound card program.

"2) If, by chance, I happen to use Sagetv for TV, do I need to work with their settings to get audio encoding setup correctly, similar to MC?"

Yes, Sage has their own audio settings. They are not nearly as flexible as MC15s though. And I believe that if you use something like FFDShow you need to be a little careful. The MC15 settings only affect media played by MC, And I believe that Sage does the same. FFDShow most likely will affect any type of media file that is selected in the FFDShow setting to be treated by it that is played on the system. I'm with Matt - if you can make everything work the way you want without FFDShow I would get it of the system. And most likely you will be able to with MC15. I'm not sure though that playing 2 channel stereo TV or DVD audio in Sage will mix to 7.1. It may require something like FFDShow to do that. But I'm not 100% sure on this.

"NWboater:
My guess is the marantz is a better DAC.  The card I bought was about $20.00 local so I am not thinking it is too high end. If I think the receiver is better dac all around, I am not sure how to then tell my receiver it is the DAC. If I understand Matt, choosing MC in DSP Studio is telling the computer to be the dac, right?"

Yes your Marantz will most likely have the better DACs than a $20 soundcard.

Not sure what you mean by "choosing MC in DSP Studio is telling the computer to be the dac, right?" If you send a digital signal SPDIF to the receiver it has to then use it's own internal DACs.

Have fun.

Rod

[chirpp]

The stars were aligned....
And now they have fallen.  First my computer motherboard fried, and now I am still stuck with some setting issue, I think.

I do not have multiple inputs on my Marantz so that is not an option. I do have a Denon AVR686 that has multiple inputs but it does not have hdmi so I elected to go with the newer Marantz NR1501.

So I now have purchased a Pci/e sound blaster X-fi and I placed it in my HP xw4300 workstation computer.  Should be a good enough processor, but only 1gb ram.

I installed all the Blaster software and ran their "Creative Console" software. When I choose my channels to test, it still only outputs to the front left and right and not the others. I called my receiver mfg, Marantz and they said it was a sound card issue.  I thought  I would try a dvd that I had ripped and low and behold it just worked!  it changed my marantz to dolby surround and sounded pretty nice!  SO I though, i wonder what playing a flac file will sound like.  NOT!. It gave me an error saying I could not play it back. 
I changed my MC settings to:
Audio Out: Direct Sound. Device Sound blaster. Channels = Default Channels
DSP No Resampling. 5.1 no dolby. JRSS 2.0. and all other settings were default, I believe.

Played back my audio and it worked!  Played my video, and it failed! Now I get no audio.

options/Video setting was set to Playback device = same as audio device, and connection type Digital connection.
The decoder section is all automatic. 

I change Options/Video /Audio playback device to use Sound Blaster. Still no output.
I changed DSP to 5.1 and use dolby. No sound.

So I tried a dvd in the dvd drive. No audio.

I called Creative and asked why my initial tests wouldn't work. That is only for analog sound.  It should auto detect S/pdif output on Windows XP.

I installed power dvd. It has an option to output  audio direct to S/pdif or 6 speakers.  If I choose 6 speakers, it plays and outputs. I can set my receiver to PLii Movie or Neo6:Movie and both give me audio, but no center channel.
If I change the setting on the Powerdvd to S/pdif out, I get a bunch of clicking sounds. Then I have to change my surround mode and it goes away. However, then the audio is totally gone, and the video is super duper slow!

Now I really don’t know what to do.  I guess it can’t be as easy as plugging in a device and getting surround.

CCCP settings:
No FFDShow Audio Decoders checked and no FFDshow audio setting . “No mixing”. The Spdif section has AC3, DTS and AC3Encode unchecked
I was then getting an error:
An error occurred preparing to play DVD video. (error Number 200).
Possibly this is because there isn’t a suitable decoder on your system. Please verify that your software which came with your dvd drive is installed correctly. You can also try changing the renderer, video decoder and audio decoder in dvd options.

So I change CCP settings to default, set audio mixing to 5.1.
I set DSp to 5.1 and dolby .
Set DVD playback audio to ffdshow and told it to output I Dolby. Now I get sound but not dolby. Or at least my receiver doesn’t auto change to dolby.  It sounds horrible too.
Considering I just bought this Sound blaster card, would I be better off buying a Video card with hdmi output and using that?  My guess is it doesn’t come at the 70.00 sound blaster price though.

[JimH]

Maybe you've said but...

What version of Windows?

Did you try WASAPI or ASIO?

This might help:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes

[chirpp]

I am on xp 32 bit. Tried w7 but video playback seemed poor.

I tried asio and it said I did not have correct driver or something.
Wasapi was not an option.

I'll check your link when I return home.

Pete

[JimH]

Win7 would be a better choice.  Video playback problems could just be a codec issue.

[chirpp]

I will see if I can try W7 again. 

I was not able to use asio, but Kernal Streaming worked. Still center channel was low, inaudible so it doesn't seem like it changing much.

I've tried changing CCCP settings for spdif output ac3/spdif. When I do that I get a loud screeching/ticking. SO I removed it, changed MC DSP settings to 5.1 no Dolby and now no sound.

[chirpp]

I just wanted to give an update on this. I returned my sound card and went with one with HDMI. Problem solved! I then upgraded to W7 and am now using WASAPI. Things are sounding really good right now!

I went a little further and setup my TV tuner within MC and am testing that as well. I admit it was fun to watch the local football game (if you enjoy losing any way) with surround sound on! But it can get annoying as well. Not a big fan of the TV interface but that is another thread. 

Thanks for the advice on this issue!