Topic: Is TitanTV Better? (Read 38417 times)

glynor · « **on:** September 14, 2015, 12:21:14 am »

Simple question... Is TitanTV a better source of guide data (for US usage) than Standard/Microsoft? I believe that's what SageTV used, and it was/is pretty nice.

Also, it looks like becoming a member is free. Is there more I don't know?

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #1 on:** September 14, 2015, 05:04:23 am »

If the Titan data contains the show's Season Number and Episode Number, that would put it above Microsoft/Rovi and Schedules Direct (and eliminate the need (for me) to run XMLTVDB). After your post, I went to Titan TV site to see about setting up an account to test with, and it turns out I already have an account (so I guess its been free for a while now). I'll do some comparison testing and report back.

glynor · « **Reply #2 on:** September 14, 2015, 06:23:24 am »

I get episode and season numbers for about 60% of my recordings on SageTV. So, I suspect it does.

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #3 on:** September 14, 2015, 12:53:20 pm »

It turns out that creating a TitanTV account (with free membership) is only enough to let you use the on-line TV guide, but in order to download it though JRiver/mc2xml you need a "30 character" code (the TitanTV ID).

This code is no longer being provided (at least according to my Google search results from various sites like NextPVR). It was stated that a while back some TV Tuners were sold with access to TitanTv and therefore came with the code, and some people where e-mailed the code with their membership (maybe this was a "paid" membership?).

So in my case, I can't use/test TitanTV.

Glynor are you inputting this code?

glynor · « **Reply #4 on:** September 14, 2015, 01:17:23 pm »

No. I have no code. SageTV has TitanTV built in (I verified, that is what they use). They keep threatening to turn it off, but it hasn't happened so far.

I would happily pay a reasonable per-year fee for better EPG data though.

glynor · « **Reply #5 on:** September 14, 2015, 01:45:35 pm »

Actually, I was wrong. SageTV uses Zap2It, not TitanTV.

There's some crazy way to get a TitanTV UUID apparently if you have any software that is licensed to use TitanTV:
http://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/working-free-us-epg.56712/page-3#post-415973

You need to sniff the traffic between the DVR app that came with your Tuner (which means you need to install that junk, sigh) and get the UUID that way. Still, though, I almost certainly have access to one of these (I have a bunch of old ATI All-In-Wonder cards, if nothing else) and can probably fire up Wireshark.

glynor · « **Reply #6 on:** September 14, 2015, 01:57:01 pm »

Actually... It looks like Schedules Direct is only $25 per year. Any idea if their EPG quality is any good? They won't "qualify" any commercial applications (they're Open Source True Believers), but if you pay for it, you can use mc2xml with it. They're generally recommended "out there" for US and Canada. They have a 7 day free trial. I'll probably test it out.

Rovi (which now seems to be powering the Microsoft option in mc2xml) is actually somewhat well regarded in my investigations. That's what mc2xml is actually using for me... But, it looks like they provide a direct REST and SOAP based API, so I wonder why using MC2XML is even necessary? Rovi, unlike many of the others, is international. They say on their website they provide EPG data for "over 70 countries". Here's the list:
http://docs.rovicloudapi.apiary.io/#reference/tv-schedule/databrowseservice

Wouldn't it be way better to just pick one and build it in, and then have mc2xml as a "backup option" for any users who can't use the good one?

glynor · « **Reply #7 on:** September 14, 2015, 02:02:44 pm »

Interestingly, Rovi also provides music metadata through the same API, and is apparently the service that Apple uses:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703989304575504013134196010

glynor · « **Reply #8 on:** September 14, 2015, 02:18:52 pm »

I'm reading through the epic EPG thread now. Amazing that I've been using PC-based DVRs for eons now (at least 10 years) and I've never encountered any issues. Of course, I used:

* BeyondTV for a long time until they shut it down
* SageTV still

By the way, in the epic EPG thread, I saw people saying that SageTV didn't get EPG data anymore, but that isn't true. Mine works just fine still, 12-14 days out. It isn't perfect by any means (data for airings in the middle of the night are sometimes wrong), but it is pretty darn good. I never, ever, ever touch it, and for almost all shows you'd expect, I automatically get Series and Season numbers.

They're wrong for PBS shows like NOVA for some reason, but for basically everything else, they're right. I really, really want to replicate this in MC and get off of SageTV (and uninstall Java, hurray), and I'm committed now, but... Ugh.

It needs to be better. Way better.

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #9 on:** September 14, 2015, 02:40:41 pm »

Quote from: glynor on September 14, 2015, 01:57:01 pm

Actually... It looks like Schedules Direct is only $25 per year. Any idea if their EPG quality is any good?

I'm using Schedules Direct now. It is as good as the Microsoft/Rovi data but neither include the Season Number. So I run mc2xml as stand-alone program then run XMLTVDB program on that data to get the missing Season Number, then I import the "enhanced" data to JRiver as XMLTV. The combination works well so far.

It would have been nice to skip a step if the Titan data worked (and assuming it contained the Season Number).

glynor · « **Reply #10 on:** September 14, 2015, 03:31:45 pm »

Perhaps it does, but seems sketchy.

DocLotus · « **Reply #11 on:** September 14, 2015, 03:56:36 pm »

Quote

Actually... It looks like Schedules Direct is only $25 per year. Any idea if their EPG quality is any good? They won't "qualify" any commercial applications (they're Open Source True Believers), but if you pay for it, you can use mc2xml with it. They're generally recommended "out there" for US and Canada. They have a 7 day free trial. I'll probably test it out.

Have switched back & forth several times between SD & MS Rovi. My observations are (based on the 119 OTA channels received in Houston TX 77036)...

* MS Rovi is better as it... Has program descriptions that are in many cases twice as long as SD (however much of the additional length is sometimes made up of a long list of actors that is missing in SD). But other times there is simply more program description information (so much so that in many cases MC truncates it as MC can't fit it all in the little program description window), seldom had the problem of "too much information" with SD.

* MS Rovi is better as it... fills in program descriptions for 10-15% more channels whereas SD seems to simply leave blank those 10%-15%. Often SD had no program descriptions for major shows whereas MS Rove usually has all major show description & only things like game shows or nightly news programs may be sometimes missing data.

My overall conclusion is I like MS Rovi better but it would be even better if it had...
1: Movie dates.
2: Movie ratings.
3 Movie IMDb data in general.
4: Episode numbers, dates, & other information.

In other words it would be really nice if it had all the information that Digiguide provides (which gets it's program description from SD, PLUS uses IMDb to fill in all the missing pieces).

DocLotus · « **Reply #12 on:** September 14, 2015, 06:52:12 pm »

Quote

I get episode and season numbers for about 60% of my recordings on SageTV. So, I suspect it does.

They may be pulling the additional info from the IMDb (something I wish MCTV could do).

glynor · « **Reply #13 on:** September 14, 2015, 07:14:10 pm »

I don't think so. I think it is just included in zap2it data.

I should have probably said higher than 60%. Basically all of them, that are actually "shows" work except:
* PBS Nova for some reason
* Many news programs like BBC News, Nightline, and Meet the Press.
* Game shows like Jeopardy.
* An occasional kids show, but most work.

For everything else, they come in with the filename set with sNNeNN style markings, even during recording. So, it can't be a post processing step...

greynolds · « **Reply #14 on:** September 14, 2015, 07:26:41 pm »

Quote from: glynor on September 14, 2015, 02:18:52 pm

* BeyondTV for a long time until they shut it down

Just a point of clarification: BeyondTV development has ended, but the software and guide data still work just fine.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #15 on:** September 14, 2015, 07:48:10 pm »

Quote from: glynor on September 14, 2015, 07:14:10 pm

I don't think so. I think it is just included in zap2it data.

Zap2it does include Season and Episode numbers. That is why the author of both zap2xml and mc2xml, John Douglas, can provide Season and Episode numbers for zap2xml, but not for mc2xml. Rovi just provide a new, internally created, ms_progid, which no one has yet worked out how to interpret. It seems to be similar to zap2it's dd_progid, which was also impossible to interpret. See http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99519.msg690129#msg690129

Also, as Greynolds says, BeyondTV still provides EPG data to users, but only for users who had the software from way back, and therefore had registered for EPG. No new users are accepted, and the EPG data is provided by the good will of the parent company, Snapstream. So it isn't an option for new users now.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #16 on:** September 14, 2015, 07:57:18 pm »

Quote from: glynor on September 14, 2015, 01:57:01 pm

Actually... It looks like Schedules Direct is only $25 per year. Any idea if their EPG quality is any good? They won't "qualify" any commercial applications (they're Open Source True Believers), but if you pay for it, you can use mc2xml with it.

It isn't quite that simple. I'll let the President of Schedules Direct, Robert Eden, explain: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=98447.msg685413#msg685413

RoderickGI · « **Reply #17 on:** September 14, 2015, 08:16:45 pm »

Also, TitanTV does seem to have good data . . . when the site works.

I have looked at the web site a few times, and had a few problems with it loading. Yesterday I couldn't get it to load at all. Maybe with the Microsoft change it is getting hammered.

It does seem to have better data for some channels and programs, like identifying Repeat and New programs. But the content seems to vary a lot by channel, and I don't see any Season and Episode numbers. Series and Episode names are pretty well presented though, so a look up for the numbers would be possible.

Or, as mentioned previously, MC could just look up TheTVDB using Series and Episode names itself, instead of requiring Season and Episode numbers, and the lack of numbers in the source data wouldn't matter. I do think that Season and Episode numbers need to be in the MC Guide though, rather than waiting to look them up after a recording is completed, so the issue isn't completely straightforward.

glynor · « **Reply #18 on:** September 14, 2015, 08:34:05 pm »

Quote from: greynolds on September 14, 2015, 07:26:41 pm

Just a point of clarification: BeyondTV development has ended, but the software and guide data still work just fine.

True. I could still use it. But it became increasingly difficult to do things with since it was no longer supported. So I abandoned it for SageTV a long time ago.

Then, of course, Google came in and bought Sage and here we are.

I never used any of them for playback though (which has always been MC), just recording.

glynor · « **Reply #19 on:** September 14, 2015, 08:35:14 pm »

Quote from: RoderickGI on September 14, 2015, 07:57:18 pm

It isn't quite that simple. I'll let the President of Schedules Direct, Robert Eden, explain: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=98447.msg685413#msg685413

Yeah. I saw after I posted that.

glynor · « **Reply #20 on:** September 14, 2015, 08:37:12 pm »

Quote from: RoderickGI on September 14, 2015, 07:48:10 pm

Zap2it does include Season and Episode numbers.

But there's no way to pay for a zap2it account and use it with MC?

RoderickGI · « **Reply #21 on:** September 14, 2015, 09:18:16 pm »

Quote from: glynor on September 14, 2015, 08:37:12 pm

But there's no way to pay for a zap2it account and use it with MC?

That is murky waters there. Zap2it is always free, as far as I can tell. If you want to buy the zap2it data, you buy it from Gracenote, at commercial rates.

There have been lots of company mergers, splits, ownership changes, etc. Frankly, I'm amazed that zap2it still exists, based on the history of Tribune Media Services and the current Tribune Media Company, and of course Gracenote. I'll let you research that a bit if you are interested.

Currently, Tribune Media Company owns Gracenote, which I think still owns zap2it, rather than TMC owning it directly. Gracenote, as you may have noticed, are extremely protective of the intellectual property, including all their TV Listing data. Effectively zap2it have been giving away for free the EPG data that Gracenote sells for a not so small amount of money. So zap2it is a threat to Gracenote's business.

Of course Gracenote supply EPG data to Schedules Direct, hence the clause about only non-commercial software and/or their users can use Schedules Direct data. Gracenote didn't want commercial oganisations to have cheap access to their data, as they want to sell it direct at a higher rate.

It seems that Gracenote has kept zap2it going in recognition of the customer base being different to Gracenote's direct customer base. No doubt there is some indirect cannibalisation of the Gracenote base by zap2it, which is why they make it somewhat difficult to get zap2it data, or to sign up for the service, which allows more control over the data users receive. I think zap2it still open up new user registrations occasionally, but not that often. Plus zap2it isn't easy to set up for all users. Basically, I think Gracenote is reluctantly agreeable to let zap2it keep going, but put up barriers to new users to keep its use under control.

That may all change now that Microsoft don't use zap2it. Microsoft probably applied considerable commercial pressure on Gracenote to keep zap2it going, and Gracenote probably precipitated the move of Microsoft to Rovi, by applying unreasonable commercial conditions. At least that is my guess.

Gracenote have always tried to be one step back from end users of their data. In Australia they recently purchased the company that consolidates and distributes EPG data to commercial customers, such as web sites, magazines, and so on. So they are serious about owning their market niche. I wonder how long it will be before we also suffer from their aggressive business practices.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #22 on:** September 14, 2015, 10:37:44 pm »

Actually zap2it is allowing new registrations right now.

So I signed up as a user in Houston TX, zip code 77036. Then I went to the zap2xml site and followed the suggested instructions. Set up my preferences as an OTA viewer.

Then downloaded the Windows version of zap2xml. Norton 360 promptly deleted it due to it having a bad reputation. Turned off Norton 360 with a 15 minute reactivation. Ran the install which just extracts the exe file. Ran it as per instructions. Crashed while I was away from the PC. ran it again and watched. Crashed with error;
[Attempt 3] 500 Internal Server Error at script/zap2xml.pl line 261.
Failed to download within 3 retries.

Thinking this may have been because I selected all OTA channels in Houston, I deselected all but nine channels. Ran it again. Norton 360 had re-enabled itself and promptly deleted zap2xml, stating it was a generic Trojan. Turned off Norton 360 for 15 minutes. Ran zap2xml again. Crashed with the same error.

So, you can sign up to zap2xml, but I don't know how you can download the data, if zap2xml wont work. It did cache a whole lot of stuff, but never got as far as saving an XMLTV file. Maybe it is fixable.

JimH · « **Reply #23 on:** September 15, 2015, 07:07:06 am »

Even if you turned off Norton, that could still be the problem. Turning off AV often doesn't work.

DocLotus · « **Reply #24 on:** September 15, 2015, 08:57:03 am »

Quote

Even if you turned off Norton, that could still be the problem. Turning off AV often doesn't work.

I agree with that 100%. Norton can be VERY hard to stop, even hard to uninstall; it seems to always leave parts of itself around that continues to cause havoc. Would suggest re-running zap2xml on another machine with only Windows Defender; I suspect it may then work.

I would be must interested in your results as I too would like something with more data then what MS Rovi currently provides.

glynor · « **Reply #25 on:** September 15, 2015, 09:16:24 am »

Also make sure you have the latest version. There was a new release just on September 4th of this year:
http://zap2xml.hosterbox.net/

I suspect your Norton is freaking out because zap2xml is a PERL script wrapped in an executable. I just signed up and will try it out too. If Sage was using zap2it, then that's what I want, because Sage's EPG has been quite good for my needs.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #26 on:** September 15, 2015, 08:41:39 pm »

Quote from: JimH on September 15, 2015, 07:07:06 am

Even if you turned off Norton, that could still be the problem. Turning off AV often doesn't work.

Turning off Norton Auto-Protect for a period to stop it detecting a program I am running Works just fine. Doing so allowed me to extract and run zap2xml without issue. Norton is a lot better than it used to be, and I have it pretty well tamed. Even when it interfered with my upgrade from MC20 to MC21 recently, it was just doing its job, and I was easily able to tell it MC was fine to use, once it gave me a pop-up asking what to do. It was just annoying that it kept finding new things to object to.

I suspect you are correct Glynor, in that it was just unhappy about the PERL script inside an executable, and the self extracting executable that it came in. I looked at the PERL script, and while I am no expert, it didn't seem to have anything to worry about in there.

I got my copy of zap2xml from http://zap2xml.awardspace.info/, where the latest version is dated September 6th. I don't know why he has two sites for zap2xml, but the two sites are identical. If I try to go to the one you used, Norton does its job again and stops me with the warning below. No idea why, because it doesn't complain about the domain. Must be the PERL script thing again. Maybe the hosterbox site was flagged by the antivirus community, so he created the awardspace site. Easier than trying to get a site unflagged?

RoderickGI · « **Reply #27 on:** September 15, 2015, 09:34:20 pm »

I just reran zap2xml and it completed successfully. I suspect the problem yesterday was with the server, rather than the software at my end. But as I can't really understand PERL, I don't know. Looking at the summary of the run;
Downloaded 728616 bytes in 981 http requests.
Writing XML file: F:\zap2xml\zap2xml.xml
Completed in 427s (Parse: 427s) 9 stations, 1109 programs, 2011 scheduled.

You can see that my run for just nine channels produced 981 http requests. So the loading on the server for people with hundreds of channels must be enormous. Of course once zap2xml has been used for a while, it will have a cache of programs and won't need to do a http request for every program. Still, there must be a significant cost to run this free service.

Where programs in the XMLTV file I created had <title> and <sub-title> fields, implying that they were part of a series, they also had Season and Episode numbers in xmltv_ns format. Not all of them, but maybe most of them.
Remember, the xmltv_ns format is zero based, so;
<episode-num system="xmltv_ns">0.7.</episode-num>
is Season 1, Epsiode 8, and by implication of the missing third term, Part 1 of 1. The example above could also be written as;
<episode-num system="xmltv_ns">0.7.0/1</episode-num>
I didn't see any records with the Part number included though.

So that makes zap2it plus zap2xml a viable alternative in North America for XMLTV data with Season and Episode numbers included. Well, at least for OTA programming in Houston TX, which is what I tested for.

glynor · « **Reply #28 on:** September 15, 2015, 11:51:52 pm »

Its far more likely his ad networks probably served some bad stuff, as happens, got his site flagged, and so now his site and its contents are flagged by Norton as a "known troublemaker".

Or, equally likely, his CMS or a plugin on it got hacked, and he was actually serving malware for a while.

This happens all the time if you use ad networks or if the site is a side gig and you don't pay attention to it closely (that's why don't go to restaurant, grade school, and church websites or put your shields up first if needed). Once you get on the "lists" as a troublemaker, it is epic to get removed. You have no power, they don't know if they can trust you (the real bad guys will claim the same, of course), and the AV vendors have no motive to help you, unless their users are complaining.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #29 on:** September 16, 2015, 12:59:28 am »

Probably. Anyway, as I have been to the site, Norton has learned it is okay, and no longer gives the warning. I've also "Trusted" the executables, so Norton also leaves them alone.

It still may be important for people who want to use zap2xml to know that they may get antivirus warnings, but the software is okay to use anyway.

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #30 on:** September 16, 2015, 08:35:51 am »

Quote from: RoderickGI on September 15, 2015, 09:34:20 pm

I just reran zap2xml and it completed successfully. I suspect the problem yesterday was with the server, rather than the software at my end. But as I can't really understand PERL, I don't know. Looking at the summary of the run;
Downloaded 728616 bytes in 981 http requests.
Writing XML file: F:\zap2xml\zap2xml.xml
Completed in 427s (Parse: 427s) 9 stations, 1109 programs, 2011 scheduled.

You can see that my run for just nine channels produced 981 http requests. So the loading on the server for people with hundreds of channels must be enormous. Of course once zap2xml has been used for a while, it will have a cache of programs and won't need to do a http request for every program. Still, there must be a significant cost to run this free service.

Where programs in the XMLTV file I created had <title> and <sub-title> fields, implying that they were part of a series, they also had Season and Episode numbers in xmltv_ns format. Not all of them, but maybe most of them.
Remember, the xmltv_ns format is zero based, so;
<episode-num system="xmltv_ns">0.7.</episode-num>
is Season 1, Epsiode 8, and by implication of the missing third term, Part 1 of 1. The example above could also be written as;
<episode-num system="xmltv_ns">0.7.0/1</episode-num>
I didn't see any records with the Part number included though.

So that makes zap2it plus zap2xml a viable alternative in North America for XMLTV data with Season and Episode numbers included. Well, at least for OTA programming in Houston TX, which is what I tested for.

Are you saying you are getting "xmltv_ns" data from zap2xml? I am not.

I just ran a comparison test with mc2xml, zap2xml, and then using XMLTVD program to "enhance" xmltv.xml data.
The data from mc2xml and zap2xml do not contain xmltv_ns (and no Season or Episode Numbers).

Attached is a sample of the data from all three methods.
The zap2xml is the worse (in my case) for OTA broadcast in 32766 zip code. Running the "XMLTVDB" program gives the best data.

Yaobing · « **Reply #31 on:** September 16, 2015, 09:50:15 am »

Remember that zap2xml has a special command line switch that lets you get the data in "slow mode". I do not know if that was what RoderickGI did. If I remember it correctly, the developer of zap2xml said that that mode runs an http connection for each program, and thus creates a huge burden on the server.

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #32 on:** September 16, 2015, 10:16:51 am »

Your right Yaobing. I forgot about that. It' the "-D" switch.
BTW - does it matter to MC whether the data is UTF-8 or ISO-8859-1 (the default for zap2xml) encoded? For UTF-8 one need to use the "-U" option/switch.

Yaobing · « **Reply #33 on:** September 16, 2015, 11:07:14 am »

Quote from: CountryBumkin on September 16, 2015, 10:16:51 am

Your right Yaobing. I forgot about that. It' the "-D" switch.
BTW - does it matter to MC whether the data is UTF-8 or ISO-8859-1 (the default for zap2xml) encoded? For UTF-8 one need to use the "-U" option/switch.

Internally we always pass -U to the program.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #34 on:** September 16, 2015, 07:49:59 pm »

Quote from: CountryBumkin on September 16, 2015, 08:35:51 am

Are you saying you are getting "xmltv_ns" data from zap2xml?

Yes.

I did use the -D command. In fact, I just used the second command line example on the zap2xml page.
zap2xml -u email@mail.com -p password -o F:\zap2xml\zap2xml.xml -e -D

That is why I showed the download summary in my post. The site says -D means one additional http request per program, but it must actually work out less than this, as there were only 981 requests in total, for 1109 programs, scheduled in 2011 time slots.

Not using the -D would prevent flooding the zap2it server, but then you need to run XMLTVDB to get series and episode numbers, so you hit TheTVDB server with the same number of http requests. So if zap2it can handle the load, -D makes sense. If it can't, use XMLTVDB and spread the load to TheTVDB server. Or, you could always use the -S command in zap2xml to add a pause between requests, and hence not flood the zap2it server.

You had me worried there with your data CountryBumkin, as I searched for "The Matrimonial Momentum" episode in my data, and found what is shown below. Then I looked at your third example, and saw it had a different Episode number! Was zap2xml pulling incorrect data?! No, your third example uses the episode "The Commitment Determination", so of course your Season and Episode numbers don't match mine.

I don't have the episode "The Commitment Determination" in my data, so I checked both on TheTVDB, and both are correctly numbered in our data.

   <programme start="20150922100000 +1000" stop="20150922103100 +1000" channel="I42574.labs.zap2it.com">
      <title lang="en">The Big Bang Theory</title>
      <sub-title lang="en">The Matrimonial Momentum</sub-title>
      <desc lang="en">Sheldon deals with the Amy situation.</desc>
      <date>20150921</date>
      <category lang="en">Sitcom</category>
      <episode-num system="common">S09E01</episode-num>
      <episode-num system="dd_progid">EP00931182.0194</episode-num>
      <episode-num system="xmltv_ns">8.0.</episode-num>
      <video>
         <aspect>16:9</aspect>
         <quality>HDTV</quality>
      </video>
      <new />
      <subtitles type="teletext" />
   </programme>

EDIT: Added my XMLTV data output file in zipped format.

imeric · « **Reply #35 on:** September 17, 2015, 11:40:27 am »

The only caveat I found with zap2xml when I was using it before Rovi even with the -D the description is minimal compared to Rovi or what SageTV gets from zap2it.

glynor · « **Reply #36 on:** September 17, 2015, 11:43:06 am »

I wonder if either Sage has a special arrangement or if, behind the scenes, they're doing "enhancement" post processing.

I do get the Series and Episode details. But, I'm not sure how it gets them.

greynolds · « **Reply #37 on:** September 17, 2015, 11:59:08 am »

Quote from: glynor on September 17, 2015, 11:43:06 am

I wonder if either Sage has a special arrangement or if, behind the scenes, they're doing "enhancement" post processing.

I do get the Series and Episode details. But, I'm not sure how it gets them.

A bit of quality time with Wireshark would presumably answer the question of what they're doing.

DocLotus · « **Reply #38 on:** September 17, 2015, 12:17:29 pm »

Quote

I wonder if either Sage has a special arrangement or if, behind the scenes, they're doing "enhancement" post processing.

I do get the Series and Episode details. But, I'm not sure how it gets them.

They may be pulling the additional info from IMDb. Digiguide does that & it is totally seamless. They built their own grabber that gets the channel description from SD & automatically adds the IMDb data from your hard drive that was previously downloaded & stored. Right in the Digiguide grabber you can set up all kinds of IMDb data that you want such as...

!: Number of Actors / Actresses.
2: Number of Directors.
3: Movie Genres.
4: Movie ratings.
5: Movie Color info.

Episode & Series info is also showing up automatically.

It might be worth someones time to take a serious look at the Digiguide Grabber as it has always worked very well for me in getting all the program descriptive info that I could ever want.

You can download the Digiguide Grabber (and read how to use it) here...
http://forums.digiguide.tv/topic.asp?id=21683&subject=READ+THIS%3A+DigiGuide+Listings+Grabber+v1%2E0

DocLotus · « **Reply #39 on:** September 17, 2015, 01:12:03 pm »

Here are a couple of examples of the info that Digiguide pulls in...

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #40 on:** September 17, 2015, 01:19:28 pm »

Quote from: imeric on September 17, 2015, 11:40:27 am

The only caveat I found with zap2xml when I was using it before Rovi even with the -D the description is minimal compared to Rovi or what SageTV gets from zap2it.

Won't "Carnac" just fill in the description from "TheTVDB.com" when the TV show is imported (from recording folder to wherever you keep your media) - when it has a Series Name, Season Number and Episode Number?

DocLotus · « **Reply #41 on:** September 17, 2015, 01:20:51 pm »

Here is the Main screen, Grid View. You hover the mouse over any program & a dialog pops up with all the Descriptive info.

The same dialog will also popup by itself at the proscribed time as a reminder that the program is about to start (that feature can also be turned off if you don't want reminders).

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #42 on:** September 17, 2015, 01:22:48 pm »

Quote from: DocLotus on September 17, 2015, 01:12:03 pm

Here are a couple of examples of the info that Digiguide pulls in...

Does that data come in an xmltv file so it can be imported into MC?
I'm going to try and setup an account and test this myself. Now I'm waited for digiguide to send me an account authorization (assuming they are even still active). I can't get anywhere on the Digiguide website without logging in first.

DocLotus · « **Reply #43 on:** September 17, 2015, 01:37:39 pm »

Quote

Does that data come in an xmltv file so it can be imported into MC?

Before they created the Grabber (a few years ago) all the data was in xmltv format; it is my understanding that it can still be used that way as a few Digiguide users had asked about it when SD made their change. As the Grabber is so easy to use, xmltv format has lost favor but is still doable (with some work; but we MC guys are used to that right?) LOL.

Quote

I'm going to try and setup an account and test this myself. Now I'm waited for digiguide to send me an account authorization (assuming they are even still active). I can't get anywhere on the Digiguide website without logging in first.

The Digiguide site is a little odd & sometimes seems to be inactive but is not really dead. The one thing to keep in mind is although they got started in Windows their main emphasis is no longer on Windows (no new Digiguide updates for Windows for some time now) but on Apple & Android devices.

DocLotus · « **Reply #44 on:** September 17, 2015, 01:47:21 pm »

To see the Digiguide data in use you will also need to download Digiguide for Windows at the DG site.

After installing DG you then set up the Grabber, select the program source such as SD & run the Grabber. It will put the grabbed info into a sub folder under Digiguide.

glynor · « **Reply #45 on:** September 17, 2015, 01:54:29 pm »

Quote from: greynolds on September 17, 2015, 11:59:08 am

A bit of quality time with Wireshark would presumably answer the question of what they're doing.

Yup.

glynor · « **Reply #46 on:** September 17, 2015, 01:57:06 pm »

Quote from: CountryBumkin on September 17, 2015, 01:19:28 pm

Won't "Carnac" just fill in the description from "TheTVDB.com" when the TV show is imported (from recording folder to wherever you keep your media) - when it has a Series Name, Season Number and Episode Number?

This is all I care about.

I don't care about seeing any information in the Guide (for Live TV). The regular descriptions shown are good enough for the once per year I actually do that (maybe once per three years, really). I just want to make sure recordings get enough information for Automatic Metadata Lookup to work right. I'd love a simple description of what is needed to get Series, Season, and Episode tags filled as reliably as is possible for US users. If there is a good thread, a link would be useful.

DocLotus · « **Reply #47 on:** September 17, 2015, 02:09:31 pm »

Some screen shots of the Grabber...

DocLotus · « **Reply #48 on:** September 17, 2015, 02:11:21 pm »

Additional screen shots of the Grabber Options (including IMDb setup)...

DocLotus · « **Reply #49 on:** September 17, 2015, 02:49:07 pm »

Quote

Does that data come in an xmltv file so it can be imported into MC?

The Grabber can work two different ways with SD...
1: Grabbing the info directly from SD.
2: Grabbing the info from SD & downloading it to an xmltv file (see screen shot). Don't know if this still works with the new SD data or not.

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