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[boomboom]

First the rant.... gave up on kodi/xbmc, media portal was better, but expected JRiver to work like WMC. I've been using WMC for last 10 years and never spent more than few minutes setting it up.

I installed JRIVER20, and been pretty frustrated setting up TV. I've not tried anything else, altho it setting up and importing files automatically was surprising and very annoying.

Going to TV and starting the setup seems to find my HVR-2250 fine with both tuners. It defaults to ATSC, but the scan doesn't find anything. After many attempts, I tried chaning it to QAM, I dont' really know the difference, and I really shouldn't have to, but then in setup it changes it back to ATSC, but finds the channels this time. However, when trying to watch, I get the error "A device attached to the system is not functioning".

OS: win7 64bit

Why is that WMC can get it done so painlessly, but it's quite a struggle and time waste with all other media centers? Given JRiver is paid product, frankly, I had high expectations.

thanks
m

[JimH]

Please use MC21 for TV.  It's on the download page.

[astromo]

Where are you?

If you're in the U.S., MC21 addresses EPG glitches resulting from delivery changes caused by 3rd party service providers. MC20 has not been updated to suit, which is why Jim advises using 21.

If you're somewhere outside the U.S., you might need some focused advice.

[boomboom]

After playing around with kodi, hated it, and then MP, better but disappointing, I downloaded JRiver. I liked the way DVDs were setup, and showed all my DVDs correc tly in the folder, the ones it was able to get the info on, and the ones it couldn't, it still displayed it blank, allowing me to right click and download the DVD info. Very well done.  However, using it for few weeks, there have been some disappointments:

 - TV not very robust. Often, when skipping forward few times, it will just hang. cltr/alt/del to get task mgr and kill it.
 - TV recording quality, not very good. Often, screen cut off at bottom.

 - Using remote is very clumsy, and often annoying. One wrong click and you are thrown off. Eg, watching tv, if I press "back" to remove any display on the screen, which is intuitive, it takes you back to the guide, and often gets hung. Moving to the small video window on bottom right then is again very clumsy. WMC can provide some good tips here. ( I've media center remote, third party, that is not recognized in the remote setup options. However, it will do the learning. WMC has no problems with the remote, btw).

For now, I went back to WMC for TV, and JR for videos. Hope some of the things will improve soon, so I can totally replace the WMC. Also, I found the switching between standard and theater view annoying. I don't mind using standard view for first time setup, but after that, I should not need to go there at all, unless rerunning the setup.

HTPC: win 7 connected  to 55" LED TV. Remote  is WMC with green button.

thanks,
MR

[JimH]

Most of what you report can probably be solved.  It would help to answer the questions.

[boomboom]

Ok, I'm game. I paid for the license, so hope I can get some support. While the remote is not recognized, it seems to work, but not well.

I guess the first thing would be to address that. The remote is, Ortek vrc-1100:

http://www.amazon.com/Ortek-Windows-Infrared-Receiver-Ultimate/dp/B00224ZDFY

I guess, its recognizing it more as keyboard/mouse, than a MCE remote. How do I fix that?

thanks

[JimH]

If it works with WMC, it should work with MC.

This might give you some ideas:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Media_Center_Remote_Instructions

[RoderickGI]

How did you go BoomBoom? Did you get the remote working properly?

[boomboom]

I played around a bit. It recognizes it as USB-UIRT but not MCE remote. During the setup, it could not learn/recognize any amp/tv commands. Couple annoying things:

Grid view: moving right OK,  moves from [n, Max] to [n+1, 0] ok. But moving left, it jumps from [n, 0] to top menu row, instead of [n-1, max]. very annoying.
PS: [row, column].

Also, grid menu, all keys require being pressed, instead of back. Just moving on it activates it, please dont.

Watching TV, there seems no way to see whats on other channels, like in WMC, you would use up or down arrow to go thru the channel guide.

Many ppl in the house... Folder is : Movies, then under it, personA, kidB, language-X, kidC, would be nice to get a submenu in movies: personA, kidB, language-X, kidC, ... and then movie list under it.

Would recommend the UI guys to play around with WMC gui a bit, to get a feel for their robust and somewhat intuitive navigation.

Thanks a lot.

[JimH]

WMC can interfere.  Take another look at the instructions I linked to.  You can ask MC to disable WMC.

[Yaobing]

Couple annoying things:

It is just a matter of getting used to the way things are done.

Grid view: moving right OK,  moves from [n, Max] to [n+1, 0] ok. But moving left, it jumps from [n, 0] to top menu row, instead of [n-1, max]. very annoying.
PS: [row, column].

Are you talking about television Guide grid?  When you are at a left most cell, pressing left arrow goes to the top.  That I believe is by design.

Also, grid menu, all keys require being pressed, instead of back. Just moving on it activates it, please dont.

I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say.  Can you explain?

Watching TV, there seems no way to see whats on other channels, like in WMC, you would use up or down arrow to go thru the channel guide.

Press Up or Down arrow key, repeatedly, until you see current program info displayed.  If you use Down Arrow, it is displayed on first press.

Now press left or right arrow key to see programs of previous channel or next channel.  

So the difference from WMC is that WMC lets you see programs of a couple of channels in a grid, JRiver MC lets you see the current program of other channels one by one.

Many ppl in the house... Folder is : Movies, then under it, personA, kidB, language-X, kidC, would be nice to get a submenu in movies: personA, kidB, language-X, kidC, ... and then movie list under it.

You can create your own customized views to achieve these things.

[RoderickGI]

Where to start? There are a lot of issues raised in your posts so far BoomBoom.

First, JRiver Media Center isn't a copy of Windows Media Center. So naturally things are going to work a little differently in MC (JRiver). There will be a learning curve. It isn't that MC is worse than WMC, just different. WMC certainly wasn't perfect. But you got used to it. I'm sure you will get to love MC as well.

One of the reasons that WMC was so painless to set up is that it is a Microsoft product, and therefore every software, hardware and service developer tested their products against WMC. If their products didn't work with WMC, they weren't going to be successful. As a consequence, Microsoft could make a bunch of assumptions about how people were going to want to use WMC, and just set it up the way they wanted. For example, Microsoft influenced EPG data providers to a massive extent, and then provided the EPG data free to WMC users. Therefore, it worked, at least for users in America and a few other select locations around the world.

Also, being free software, they didn't have to try to meet user's requirements. They just built it and delivered it, and expected people to use it as it was. In the early days there were many many problems with WMC, and lots of third party forums and web sites sprang up to help people make it work for them. As a mature product WMC was much easier to use than the earlier versions. Hence, it was painless to set up.

MC can replace WMC in all areas except encrypted Cable TV recording and playback. That issue is being addressed now.

Take note of Jim's comment about WMC interfering with TV in MC. They can fight over TV tuners if both are active, even if WMC is not actually running, because it runs two services in the background to enable TV recording a playback. Disable WMC and both WMC services before testing MC TV capability.

Next, MC understands MCE remote commands by default. You don't need to program it, or teach it any Infrared commands to make it work. If you want to control other devices outside your PC using IR, then you do need to teach the IR Blaster in MC, so that it can blast commands to the external devices. But if you aren't trying to do that, and you shouldn't until you learn how MC TV works, and get it working properly, then you should not have made any changes to IR commands in MC.

If you have made changes, go to Tools/Options/Remote Control/Devices & Options, then in the box "Selected input devices" make sure that "Microsoft MCE" and "Remote, keyboard, gamepad, or other HiD" are selected. If you have such a device, then they should be marked as (Active). So if MC sees your MCE IR receiver in your PC, "Microsoft MCE" will have the suffix (Active).

Now click "Back' and select the "Commands" link, then click the "Restore Default List" button to restore default MCE IR commands. In the column "Learned Trigger Code" all commands should have a "?" next to them. This is normal, and correct when using a standard MCE remote. You can learn about customising commands later.

That should be enough for now. Before you ask more questions, I encourage you to read some of the threads in the forum that other WMC users and JRiver personnel have posted. For example;
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100685.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100399.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=98239.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=79837.0

Note that quite a few issues raised in those posts have been, or are being addressed now. The developers have made huge improvements in TV functionality over recent months, and continue to improve it.

[CountryBumkin]

Where to start? There are a lot of issues raised in your posts so far BoomBoom.

Very nice response RoderickGI!
Well said. Let the troubleshooting begin...

[RoderickGI]

Thanks mate.   

I think we might need assistance from a few people on this one, especially yourself, since neither Astromo or I are in America. ATSC? QAM? At least Australia's OTA is simple from a broadcaster standards perspective.

[boomboom]

1. I understand JR is not WMC, and I am not looking for exact WMC replacement, otherwise, I'd just stick with W7 and WMC. I'm looking for intuitive and non-buggy navigation.

2. I enabled WMC again, and hope either following bugs will be fixed soon or I'll be refunded:

Bug 1: When navigating in grid view, moving left jumps to top instead of previous row, last column. This is inconsistent with moving right, and a horrible design if intentional. Menu, back, or any other key could be used to do that.

Bug 2: My remote I mentioned above is not recognized as MCE remote but, USB-IRT, still seems to work mostly in theater view.

Bug3: When on "back" in grid view, it jumps back without waiting for "enter", like all other buttons.

Bug4: When the window is not opened in standard, theater, or any other view mode, pressing "play" on remote gets the tv playing sound, it appears from the live tv. The remote should just be ignored when JR windws are not opened.

I'd love to move back to JR when the above is fixed asap.

thanks
M

[JimH]

Bug 1 isn't a bug.  It allows you to get to the top from anywhere in the list.  It is by design.  Left, left, left backs you out from anywhere.  Use the up arrow if you want to go up.

Bug 3 isn't a bug.

Bug 4 may be related to the problem you're having in Bug 2.

[Yaobing]

Can you tell me, regarding #2, what you tried, and what result you got that let you draw the conclusion?

[RoderickGI]

BoomBoom, it would be good if you answered Yaobing's question, but for your information.

USB-IRT stands for "Universal Serial Bus - Infrared Receiver Transmitter". In fact the correct full name is USB-UIRT, "Universal Serial Bus - Universal Infrared Receiver Transmitter".

That is the device connected to your PC that allows your PC to receive commands from your MCE remote. It is also the same device that allows your PC to send Infrared commands to other electronics devices, such as your receiver or TV, using the Blaster capability of MC.

The only place that you can see if MC recognises your MCE remote is in the "Tools/Options/Remote Control/Devices & Options" dialogue, where the MCE Remote is shown as "Microsoft MCE (Active)", as per the first attached image. What that is actually saying is that MC recognises an MCE compatible IR receiver on the PC. On my Workstation PC which doesn't have a USB-UIRT to enable communication with a remote, the same screen looks like the second image, where the MCE remote "Failed to start".

The real test if your MCE remote is recognised is whether it works or not. It does work, so it is recognised.

I don't believe that any of your listed "Bugs" are actually bugs. Jim has covered 1 and 3 already. 2 isn't a bug, as per above discussion. You have just misunderstood how to confirm your MCE remote is recognised.

That leaves 4. I'm not sure that is a bug, and may be by design. I just tested and I found different responses depending what else I had been doing on the PC.

At first, when I just minimised MC Standard View, then pressed Play on the remote, the first TV show in the list that had been displayed on MC played. But then after I had opened Windows Explorer, minimised it, and pressed Play again, Windows opened the Start Menu. After that, I couldn't get MC to play the first file in the list by pressing Play while MC was minimised. So I think what you saw, and what I saw the first time, was a function of the context under which we pressed Play. While MC was the last program that was intercepting IR commands, it responded by playing the first file in its current list. Once it was no longer intercepting IR commands, it no longer played the first file in its current list.

It could be a bug, or unintentional, but it doesn't happen universally, and JRiver have done a lot to make sure that MC monitors and responds to MCE Remote commands properly when it should. So it could be a consequence of that effort. Regardless, it is hardly a show stopper to implementing MC, I would have thought.

[boomboom]

HI Yaobing,

It def appears a bug. I played around a bit last night. So, by default, pressing next in the remote options menu, it gives me error, something like, "a remote receiver was not found" or something like that. Now, if i select USB-UUIRT in the devices and try again, it finds it and i'm able to click next. If I go back and uncheck the USB-UUIRT option, it still works. If I remove all, then error. If I check MCE, same error. If I select USB-UUIRT, it works again. If I uncheck, it keeps working.

Regarding others... they are still bugs. #1 may be a feature for some, but for me and everyone I showed it to, it comes as unexpected and annoying. Maybe you can make that an advanced config option or something. "back" or one of the many remote buttons could be used to go up to the menu bar on top, making left arrow jump there is strange imo.

thanks,
M

[JimH]

USB UIRT is a specific device, which you probably don't have:

http://www.usbuirt.com/

Did you try disabling WMC?  It's in MC's options.

[JimH]

Here's how MC is set for me and the MC Remote works.  See attached image.

[boomboom]

Jim, Yes I did try disabling WMC, still same. Yes, I tried the default options where both you show in your image are selected, it didn't work. Hence the post. Like I said, checking USB* makes it work, even tho it doesn't seem the remote fits that (I don't know much about USB-UUIRT). Hence, I reported it as a bug.

Again, platform: W7, JR 21.0.?? (i think 19 or whatever latest is).

I'm an extremely busy professional, so I'm not gonna be able to engage a whole lot here.

thanks for all the help.

M

[JimH]

I did try disabling WMC, still same. Yes, I tried the default options where both you show in your image are selected, it didn't work. Hence the post. Like I said, checking USB* makes it work, even tho it doesn't seem the remote fits that (I don't know much about USB-UUIRT).

If the settings I showed won't work, then the IR hardware isn't available to MC.  Either it's broken in some way, or more likely, WMC or another program have a tight grip on it.  It's probably WMC.

You could use an Internet search to learn more.  Try a search for ehome receiver.

[RoderickGI]

USB UIRT is a specific device, which you probably don't have:

It seems you are right Jim. I thought I found a Wikipedia page that gave that full definition. Maybe I just bounced to that page and drew the wrong conclusion.

Moving on.

[RoderickGI]

The MCE remote works correctly with the USB-UUIRT selected, but not with it unselected and just Microsoft MCE selected. Therefore the Ortek Infrared Receiver you are using is not a standard MCE Infrared Receiver, or an eHome Infrared Receiver/Transceiver. But if it works, leave it alone.

If certain commands aren't working, then start researching your Ortek remote. I quickly found that it has issues:
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8319

Most WMC remote controls send RC6 infra-red signals, but there is a small number that do not -- and the Ortek is one of these.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/93-remote-control-area/1653689-need-windows-media-center-remote-ll-work-harmony-659-a.html

My next remote purchase was an ORtek VRC-1100. And while this maps OK to Harmony, about 10% of its commands aren't properly recognized by Windows Media Center, resulting in the wrong thing happening on screen, and the color buttons bring up all sorts of stuff that they shouldn't.

So as Jim suggests, I think you have some research to do on the internet. Maybe if you had purchased the HP Remote and IR Receiver instead, all would be working.


Also, do not press the "Next" button unless you are trying to set up an Infrared Blaster to control other electronic equipment. It is not needed.


Your "unexpected and annoying" and "strange imo" do not amount to bugs. You just haven't learnt how to control MC yet. I thought the left, left, oh back to top was strange when I first started using MC, and it still catches me occasionally if I multi-press the left button. But it, and the other issues, are not bugs.

You're an

extremely busy professional

so just learn how MC works and use it and you will love it.

[boomboom]

Yaobing,

Regarding your earlier question, I can understyand moving up on left in TV guide, as you can't go to previous row last column in the guide. I'm talking about other grid menus, like TV shows, movies, etc..

I see Ortek is seen as a keyboard by W7, probably because it has mouse on it... i'll try other remote.

Other thing, it seems to create a different file for each channel watched live. If u r scrolling thru, it can be lot of files. Is there a config option to have a single file?:

-m

[boomboom]

Quote
Many ppl in the house... Folder is : Movies, then under it, personA, kidB, language-X, kidC, would be nice to get a submenu in movies: personA, kidB, language-X, kidC, ... and then movie list under it.

yaobing>You can create your own customized views to achieve these things.

Yaobing, can you point to something that would tell how to do such customization?

thx

[RoderickGI]

Other thing, it seems to create a different file for each channel watched live. If u r scrolling thru, it can be lot of files. Is there a config option to have a single file?:

These are the Time Shifting files. If you aren't actually recording the channels, and haven't set MC to save the Time Shifting files (Tools/Options/Television/Time Shifting/Save on stop) then MC will remove these files when the Television maintenance tasks run. I'm not sure how often those tasks run, but it is pretty often, usually when nothing else is happening in MC. So the files won't build up. There is no option for creating a single file for all channels. In fact, Time Shifting uses the JTV format, which creates many small files rather than one big file to save TV broadcasts. But from a user perspective it doesn't matter, as they are cleaned up.

Yaobing, can you point to something that would tell how to do such customization?

This is where we test your search skills in both the Wiki and Forum. 

Standard View customisation: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=68960.msg464065#msg464065
Search for other posts by Marko, using the advanced search feature in the forum. Marko is a bit of a wiz with Views.
There is an older version in the Wiki: http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/View_Schemes#Video

Finding the equivalent description for creating and modifying Theatre View views is a little harder. Try this: http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Theater_View#Items_to_Show
The have a look around Tools/Options/Theatre View/Item to show.
There is a lot of information in the forums. I just searched the Forum for "Theatre View views" and had lots of hits. No nice summary though I'm afraid. But I didn't search for long.

The MC Search Language: http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Smartlist_and_Search_-_Rules_and_Modifiers
Not about Views, but good to know. Also become a little familiar with the concepts in Media Center Core Commands and Expression Language.

In fact, take a look around the Developer Zone, as it will familiarise you with what MC can do, and help in building new Theatre View and Standard View views.

You don't need to become an expert in all these areas, but it helps to have an awareness as you build new views, on what can be done. You will find a lot of posts where people are asking for help with Expressions to use in views.

[Yaobing]

Regarding your earlier question, I can understyand moving up on left in TV guide, as you can't go to previous row last column in the guide. I'm talking about other grid menus, like TV shows, movies, etc..

For those grid views, there is an option you need to double-check.

Tools \ Options \ Theater View \ Left edge jumps to top in grid view styles.

Uncheck the option.  I believe it is off by default, but may have been accidentally checked.

[RoderickGI]

For those grid views, there is an option you need to double-check.

Tools \ Options \ Theater View \ Left edge jumps to top in grid view styles.

Uncheck the option.  I believe it is off by default, but may have been accidentally checked.

I forgot about that one. I think it was on by default in my installations. It still is on as it is a quick way to get to the top.

I guess that solves the "Bug 1" issue.

[boomboom]

Yup, that fixed, now left arrow goes to previous row as expected. thanks.

[boomboom]

RoderickGI,

1. Yeah, I had turned always save on the time shifting assuming it would be a single circular file... given that its not, I changed it back to "not save".. I don't see an option to specify location of such files..... something to think about for future ..

2. I'll play around with theater view display...

thanks

[RoderickGI]

I don't see an option to specify location of such files..... something to think about for future ..

All Time Shifting files are stored in subdirectories below the directory you specified for Recorded TV in the Options/Television/General settings.

The Time Shifting subdirectory names are based on the Channel Name, Date, and Time, to make them unique. As Time Shifting uses the JTV format, made up of multiple files, it needs to have a subdirectory for each Time Shifting session. Specifying them manually would be impossible, and the current functionality (naming rules) makes them pretty easy to understand. The only complexity arises when a user is trying to find a specific program where multiple programs are included in one Time Shifting session, and hence subdirectory. Basically that is done by playing the Time Shifting session and zooming through it find the program you want. Not something I have ever had to do, because I don't save Time Shifting session files. If I decide I want to keep a program that is currently in the Time Shifting Buffer, I just hit the record button and MC keeps the files for that program, and disposes of the remaining Time Shifting files from the session.

The system used for Time Shifting is actually better than any other I have used.

Subdirectories in the Recorded TV directory that are named using Program Name and Date are associated with planned program recording schedules. If there are two programs of the name on the same day to be recorded, they get a (1), (2), etc. suffix on the subdirectory name.