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[KMac]

I just pledged $100.  I do not own MC, have never seen it in use, and cannot test it concurrently with WMC due to SDHR Prime encoding differences.

Jim, I realize this Kickstarter may not hit your stated goals, but please remember, if you build it, they will come.  You have seen how much SD raised for their DVR w/ DRM solution.  You already have the DVR and I believe you have a grid style guide.  Please add the DRM and let us flock to you.  There is no other alternative; how could it not be a success?

[JimH]

I just pledged $100.  I do not own MC, have never seen it in use, and cannot test it concurrently with WMC due to SDHR Prime encoding differences.

Jim, I realize this Kickstarter may not hit your stated goals, but please remember, if you build it, they will come.  You have seen how much SD raised for their DVR w/ DRM solution.  You already have the DVR and I believe you have a grid style guide.  Please add the DRM and let us flock to you.  There is no other alternative; how could it not be a success?

Thanks for the donation and the encouragement.

[Bayway]

I just pledged $100.  I do not own MC, have never seen it in use, and cannot test it concurrently with WMC due to SDHR Prime encoding differences.

Jim, I realize this Kickstarter may not hit your stated goals, but please remember, if you build it, they will come.  You have seen how much SD raised for their DVR w/ DRM solution.  You already have the DVR and I believe you have a grid style guide.  Please add the DRM and let us flock to you.  There is no other alternative; how could it not be a success?

Ditto !!!!!!

[tzr916]

Are there rules that say you can't extend the deadline? Really wish you could get another 30 days and like others have said get out to Engadget and more advertising...

[TheFeelsNinja]

with three days to go, I just pledged my support.  This is something that even if I got nothing from the KS, I would still purchase the full product anyway.  I installed the trial version and came away very impressed with how polished this with the minimum setup I did to get my hdhomerun primes recognized.  I would move to this program tonight, except for the copy once support.  I have Cablevision in NJ and they have started marking a lot of channels that I watch as copy once...so here's to hoping this gets funded/greenlit..finger crossed.  thanks for the opportunity.

[Castius]

Well said

[kieran]

Maybe too little, too late, but my blog post on the topic finally went live:
http://hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/blogs/secrets-staff-blogs-future-dvrpvr-htpcs/

[JimH]

Maybe too little, too late, but my blog post on the topic finally went live:
http://hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/blogs/secrets-staff-blogs-future-dvrpvr-htpcs/

Thank you.

[hawaii2k]

I'm sad the Kickstarter failed to meet its goal. But I'm encouraged at the thought that JRiver attempted to make recording and viewing of copy-once channels possible. You guys totally rock and will always have my full support.

[tzr916]

I'm close to making the switch from WMC, just waiting on commercial skip timeline / remote functions (and will pay for a license when that is working)... But really hoping you can re-animate copy once, possibly reach out to hardware manufacturers like Ceton/SD (be careful not to sacrifice support for one brand tuner or another) and even a integrate a pay guide service provider (other than Rovi).

[kieran]

I'm close to making the switch from WMC, just waiting on commercial skip timeline / remote functions (and will pay for a license when that is working)... But really hoping you can re-animate copy once, possibly reach out to hardware manufacturers like Ceton/SD (be careful not to sacrifice support for one brand tuner or another) and even a integrate a pay guide service provider (other than Rovi).

Uhm... you already can use a pay guide service provider!

[stuartm]

Unfortunately, I discovered the JRiver Kickstarter after it had expired without reaching its goal.  I would have definitely contributed.  I have been looking for alternatives to WMC since it became obvious that Microsoft is killing it.  JRiver seems very attractive and does nearly everything I want in a media center but I do need protected cable TV support for my HDHomerun Prime tuners.  The Silicondust effort does not interest me since it is not a comprehensive media center and wouldn't support my OTA tuner cards.  Also I am not sure they are even going to have a grid style EPG.  I hope JRiver will consider going forward with protected content support even without the kickstarter.  Has there  been any indication of whether or not they might do that?

[keylimesoda]

There will be a major news cycle when WMC7 goes out of support.

I would re-open this kickstarter with a bit more PR push and ride the wave at that point.

[djmik]

I thought I would give you guys the holidays to get back to us on the possible future of this. As others have stated, perhaps the kickstarter was not a good representation of the actual interest in this capability. I thought it was too short, and a bit late given that SD started drumming up interest before you. There also seems to be a lack of publicity around this, even on your own site. I have been reading on many forums, including this one, that people missed out on the news entirely and did not get a chance to contribute. There seems to be many more that have already contributed to SD and may not be so please of the results which are also potential customers. Yet even more simply did not contribute but would move on an actual product once it hits the market.

I think I am echoing the sentiments of many when I say that JRiver does have the superior solution. I was not even aware of this as a WMC user and now that MS has painted us into a corner, I did my research and found JRiver. I absolutely love your product! Despite the current limitation, I purchased JRiver MC and started deploying it throughout my home to leverage my HD Homerun Prime. I am partially committed to this product on my main TV and have been testing it out as an exclusive TV viewing option for about 2 weeks now. I think it goes without saying, the lack of HBO/CINEMAX and some Fox properties due to the copy-once flag is not welcome and it has me pining for a copy-once solution. JRiver seems to be the only viable MC solution that can realistically take this on.

I have to renegotiate my FiOS contract this month. I am hoping that some news comes out of your shop that would indicate an eventual move in this direction. I am holding out on my reneg as long as I can and would certainly wait if I knew there was a solution down the road. I hope you can make this work and provide the PlayReady add-on many of us desire so we can maintain a nice 10 foot experience using your product.

[JimH]

I've been thinking about this and I'm puzzled.  There are a lot of possible reasons that it didn't take off.

The video could have been slicker. 

The message was a little cryptic.  There may be only a few people who know what Copy Once and Playready mean.

SiliconDust went first and may have taken the low hanging fruit.

In the end, I think people don't want to be tied to cable at all.  This article talks about cord cutting and how it's hurting the entertainment industry:
Billboard.

What I want is to be able to watch what I want when I want, without jumping through a lot of hoops.  Maybe I'm not alone.

[greynolds]

I've been thinking about this and I'm puzzled.  There are a lot of possible reasons that it didn't take off.

The video could have been slicker. 

The message was a little cryptic.  There may be only a few people who know what Copy Once and Playready mean.

SiliconDust went first and may have taken the low hanging fruit.

In the end, I think people don't want to be tied to cable at all.  This article talks about cord cutting and how it's hurting the entertainment industry:
Billboard.

What I want is to be able to watch what I want when I want, without jumping through a lot of hoops.  Maybe I'm not alone.

A few other things:

1. You guys did the Kickstarter during the holidays.  That's probably the worst time of year to get peoples' attention and to get them to think about donating money to a project.

2. The SiliconDust project was for an entire DVR solution, not restricted just to adding support for Copy Once content.  That opens things up to a much larger base of people to contribute to the project.

3. The SiliconDust project had higher donation tiers that gave the user hardware in return.  Those higher tiers made it easier to look like more money was added to the campaign, despite the fact that a good chunk of that money was paying for hardware rather than software development.

[jmone]

The Average pledge of Kickstarter for this Campaign was about $50.  At that rate you would need 2,000 contributors to hit the target but did not get a tenth of that.  I'm sure there is a current user base well over 2,000 that would pay the $50 to keep their access gong.  I wonder if MS would get involved in informing their customers.  I say this as I used to use "Windows Easy Transfer" when moving PCs but MS dropped it but now have a click through and recommendation on their site to use Laplink

[djmik]

I've been thinking about this and I'm puzzled.  There are a lot of possible reasons that it didn't take off.

The video could have been slicker. 

The message was a little cryptic.  There may be only a few people who know what Copy Once and Playready mean.

SiliconDust went first and may have taken the low hanging fruit.

In the end, I think people don't want to be tied to cable at all.  This article talks about cord cutting and how it's hurting the entertainment industry:
Billboard.

What I want is to be able to watch what I want when I want, without jumping through a lot of hoops.  Maybe I'm not alone.

@ JimH

Good to see your post. I assume you are important at JRiver?

I hear you on the cord-cutting. I would be there myself if it wasn't for content, live or otherwise, that cannot be accessed by a cord-cutter. The cable industry and the whole entertainment industry moves at a snail's pace all with the purpose of holding on to an antiquated business model. This is why I think cable card in some form (as well as those c. 1998 cable boxes) will be around for a while longer.

[jmone]

@ JimH

Good to see your post. I assume you are important at JRiver?

[djmik]

@Jmone

+1

[JimH]

[AlanG]

Just joined the forum.  I too am running WMC and need to have the capability of watching/recording encoded content.  I cannot cut the cable these days because certain sports channels that aren't available without a Verizon FIOS subscription plus HBO & Showtime.  I've been looking at alternatives but don't see any right now.  I missed the Kickstarter campaign because of the holidays and the fact that I've not been following this issue all that closely.  I would have contributed.  Perhaps this can be resurrected at some point during the next year with a little more publicity.

[stuartm]

Would really like to see them retry or pursue doing protected content anyway.  Since discovering JRiver and the missed kickstarter I have read some in the forums and if it supported protected content I would have already bought as it seems really nice and supports almost everything I want in a Media Center.  (with the possible exception of decent Netflix support, but that has become problematic in WMC now also)  I would even pay a premium over base cost for a protected content module.  Anyway, I'll continue to follow JRiver in hopes of seeing something in that area.

[djmik]

Would really like to see them retry or pursue doing protected content anyway.  Since discovering JRiver and the missed kickstarter I have read some in the forums and if it supported protected content I would have already bought as it seems really nice and supports almost everything I want in a Media Center.  (with the possible exception of decent Netflix support, but that has become problematic in WMC now also)  I would even pay a premium over base cost for a protected content module.  Anyway, I'll continue to follow JRiver in hopes of seeing something in that area.

@StuartM

For those things that do not have apps or features, I find the ability for JRiver to call external applications and web sites adequate. Obviously a Netflix or HGBGo / HBONow app would be killer but I have been accessing these fine through JRiver using that config. I am calling the Win8 Netflix app through a batch script which works well but I found this http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100725.0 which seems to be a better way to call the Win 8 Netflix app and also provides some remote control support. I have not tested yet both others seem happy. I hope this helps.

And yes, the Netflix app in WMC is way long in the tooth now. Terrible interface compare to the Win App.

We are all hoping JimH sees a greater market potential on the copy-once stuff and puts forth the investment. As we see more people like you chime in here, the chances only get better. Spread the word.

[djmik]

"The squeaky wheel gets the oil". The "oil" in this case being PlayReady ;-)

Just doing my bi-weekly poke to see if PlayReady might be in our future. I am about to redo my cable package and much of what I do will be based on MC's direction. Any additional news / insight on this?

Sorry if I am a pain. Just very eager to get a complete solution back in play if possible. Still loving MC and just doing without HBO/MAX for now.

[SomeGuy]

Just registered to make a little bit of noise like a couple others.. I REALLY want TVPlus to be a reality!

I think that it's fair to say that WMC has always kind of been a niche product, in fact most people don't even know what it is (I've always referred to it as the best Microsoft product nobody's ever heard of), but I think that niche market is still one that is crying out to have someone fill it.  While I don't disagree that streaming may be the future, it's likely to be quite a ways off if even possible.  Most programming can be streamed, but not live, and even then it's very difficult to be able to watch sports programming unless you've got cable/satellite, unless you don't mind watching a poor quality illegal stream that's riddled with malware and ads.  Simply put, the NFL/NBA/NHL/MLBs of the world are quite happy reaping large sums from the telco providers, and unless they get big incentive (eg huge piles of cash), it won't change.

I love my cablecard WMC box, as do others that I've met who use them, but at this point it really is on borrowed time.  Sure, we can still keep using Windows 7 for the time being and hold things off, but if Microsoft decides to kill off the EPG then it's game over.  Plus, Microsoft just announced that they'll only support the latest generation (and newer) Intel processors with Windows 10.  This isn't to say that we can't keep using the PCs we have today, but if we want the features that a new motherboard or processor will offer (onboard HDMI 2.0 via the Intel GPU, for example), then WMC is out of the question.  To that end, if I can't use my PC as a DVR, I've got no incentive to have one hooked up to my TV when I can get something low-power like a Roku to do day to day streaming.  Sure, I could cook up a JRiver box to support everything but the copy-once programming I watch, but I want everything in one place.  Besides that, it's likely only a matter of time till companies like Comcast and TWC decide they're going to flag the whole kit'n'kaboodle as copy-once so they can get more revenue out of their DVRs, and push their whole-home solutions.

Anyway, I'm sure that research has been done on the viability of getting the licensing, but I don't think that the results of the Kickstarter are necessarily indicative of what the TVPlus product would yield.  I mentioned it to several co-workers after I put my name in the hat, and while they were very interested in the product, they're not the types who are going to buy into anything unless they can see the final product and get it that day.  I want this product badly, and I think a lot of other people will too, it will just take some time for people to see it and then believe in it enough to buy into it.

[djmik]

Interesting development here:

http://www.engadget.com/2016/01/27/the-fcc-is-going-to-war-over-set-top-boxes/

Looks like Wheeler is fighting another good fight. This could mean good things for the likes of JRiver but I am sure it is a ways off. After all, there will be the creation of fake consumer groups by the industry, millions in lobbying spent, a few lawsuits, then, finally, we may have a viable CableCard solution with a better licensing model.

[CountryBumkin]

I don't use cable card - but I don't mind contributing to add features and improve the product. If the development had been funded, I feel that the entire User base would have benefited from the added staff/developers and general program refinement.

If this project is resurrected (another "Go Fund Me" campaign) perhaps this time include in the development goals "to get BD Menus working". I'm sure this would be no small undertaking, but I believe it would add a lot more interest (and funding) for the project.

Good luck

[greynolds]

I don't use cable card - but I don't mind contributing to add features and improve the product. If the development had been funded, I feel that the entire User base would have benefited from the added staff/developers and general program refinement.

If this project is resurrected (another "Go Fund Me" campaign) perhaps this time include in the development goals "to get BD Menus working". I'm sure this would be no small undertaking, but I believe it would add a lot more interest (and funding) for the project.

For BD menus, are you talking about full blown menus?  If so, that requires a very messy combination of licensing and locking down functionality to the point that quite a few users probably wouldn't be happy with the compromises that have to be made to get there.  I may be wrong, but any other BD menu option most likely isn't viable in a commercial product unless JR wants to end up with a pile of lawsuits.

IMHO, there's probably enough TV work that could still be added and/or improved that they could seek to fund a more general TV campaign rather than having the scope as narrow as only adding Copy Once support.

People also like to receive something tangible when they contribute, so adding tiers where you get something concrete, such as an Id, when contributing above a certain threshold might encourage more people to contribute.  I don't know the exact numbers, but if an Id costs $100 to manufacture and retails for $200, a tier at $175 or $200 that includes an Id could add $50 or $75 to the campaign (let's assume that $25 is needed to cover packing it up and getting it shipped) which is presumably better than someone just contributing $20.

[CountryBumkin]

For BD menus, are you talking about full blown menus?  If so, that requires a very messy combination of licensing and locking down functionality to the point that quite a few users probably wouldn't be happy with the compromises that have to be made to get there. 

Yes, that is what I meant. Doesn't adding the "Copy-Once" ability require the "messy combination of licensing and lock down" (at least for that specific TV functionality)? Either way, I'll continue supporting development if the chance comes up again.

[greynolds]

Yes, that is what I meant. Doesn't adding the "Copy-Once" ability require the "messy combination of licensing and lock down" (at least for that specific TV functionality)? Either way, I'll continue supporting development if the chance comes up again.

I'm pretty sure that adding full support for BD menus is a FAR more involved mess that includes adding Java to the mix.  My understanding is that it's also a LOT more expensive (licensing wise) than adding support for Playready.  It also requires more frequent updates to keep the keys current which also means that the user base would HAVE to constantly upgrade to the latest version of JRiver to play their Blurays (or at least to play newer ones).

I'm not saying I would be against adding BD menu support, just that it's a MUCH larger and more expensive project that it might seem.  Though I do kind of like the ability to just watch a movie without having to be forced to watch previews and such each time.  The only place where I really miss the menus is in finding the extras.

[CountryBumkin]

I agree 100% with you. I currently only rip the main movie and have no interest in the trailers, extras or other junk on the disk.

However, there are a few times when having menus would be nice. For example, currently I have a "BD setup/tuning" disk (two actually, one is "Disney WOW" and the other is "Spears & Munsil HD benchmarking"). Without menus it's really hard to get to the test patterns and various setup screens and short test videos. I'm tying to get these pieces working without menus using particles, but so far it's a work in progress. And others have stated they would like menus for those BD "TV series" when you might have 12+ episodes on a disk.
So just saying ... it would be nice it is was doable with out breaking anything else.

[greynolds]

I agree 100% with you. I currently only rip the main movie and have no interest in the trailers, extras or other junk on the disk.

However, there are a few times when having menus would be nice. For example, currently I have a "BD setup/tuning" disk (two actually, one is "Disney WOW" and the other is "Spears & Munsil HD benchmarking"). Without menus it's really hard to get to the test patterns and various setup screens and short test videos. I'm tying to get these pieces working without menus using particles, but so far it's a work in progress. And others have stated they would like menus for those BD "TV series" when you might have 12+ episodes on a disk.
So just saying ... it would be nice it is was doable with out breaking anything else.

Yeah, there are definitely cases where the BD menus would be really useful and you've listed 2 big ones.  When I rip TV series, I usually end up spending a bit of time figuring out which episode is which.

[millst]

For BD menus, are you talking about full blown menus?  If so, that requires a very messy combination of licensing and locking down functionality to the point that quite a few users probably wouldn't be happy with the compromises that have to be made to get there.  I may be wrong, but any other BD menu option most likely isn't viable in a commercial product unless JR wants to end up with a pile of lawsuits.

I don't think this is necessarily true. They could incorporate libbluray. Perhaps, they could even contribute to it since (last I heard) it's still a WIP. I really want menus, but agree that they shouldn't go down the path of the commercial products.

-tm