Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[tzr916]

Went to bed last night expecting several shows to record, a two hour "48 Hours", "Colony", "Local News at 11", and "SNL".

Got up this morning, tried to watch Tv on Client in bedroom and got error "No tv tuner available..." error (tried several channels including on that supposed to point to different physical tuner).

Went downstairs to the Server and it's playing live tv (not any of the channels that were supposed to record last night), and MC would not respond to any remote or mouse, eventually it went all white and a "not responding" box appeared. Meanwhile, I can see that two instances of CBS channel are active on the tuners (web config page).

Restarted MC, tried to create output a log file but that process went into not responding also, so killed it and tried again. Of course this log came out completely normal. Rebooted the hung tuner. Verified live tv on Server and Client working again.

So it looks like one hour into "48 Hours" (around 10pm), MC got screwed up, locked up one tuner then changed to another, and continued recording for 10 hours, which is exactly when I tried to force the MC Server to close this morning. The result is one 7GB file and a second 68GB file! Sadly, the next 3 shows that were supposed to record, did not happen at all.

________________________________________________

I really wish MC had a way to ALERT it's human administrator when something like this goes wrong. Send an email or text when ever it abnormally changes tuners during a recording, or fails to start a scheduled recording, etc. Then anyone could reboot the Server and confirm normal operation (either directly or remotely).

I already have this setup for my network tuners. I have a small program on the Server that pings the IP's of the tuners every 10 seconds. If it misses a ping, the program immediately sends an email to my phone which alerts me that the tuner is down or rebooted.


SOLVED: new version of MC seems to be MUCH more crash resistant for tv recording.Thank you!

[RoderickGI]

That is not good. TV really needs its own logs so that issues like this can be captured and fixed. The main log gets too big too quickly to leave it running all the time. I have seen similar issues with my internal DVB-T tuners but very rarely, and I never have enough information to analyse what happened. Usually it appears to be because I am fiddling with MC.

I assume that pinging the tuner regularly doesn't have any effect on its ability to continue recording? Is that a recommended method to check the status, by the manufacturer?

[tzr916]

I assume that pinging the tuner regularly doesn't have any effect on its ability to continue recording? Is that a recommended method to check the status, by the manufacturer?

I have been running the pings for a full year with and it never caused any issues.

No, it was not recommended by the manufacturer (Ceton). I came up with the idea on my own because the Ceton 6 ETH has a bad habit of rebooting by itself after 25-30 days of use.

When this issue happened last night, the tuner did NOT self reboot. I checked the logs and I never got a ping test fail email. So this is all on MC.

[RoderickGI]

No problem. I just thought I should ask and get that question out of the way, so the real issue will be addressed.

[JimH]

... the Ceton 6 ETH has a bad habit of rebooting by itself after 25-30 days of use.

... So this is all on MC.

Really?

[tzr916]

Really?

Found out my GF was downstairs at the Server around 10:30pm, it was playing a Comcast music channel and she tried to bring up the guide but it would not respond to remote. It was still in that hung state when I got to it the next morning, playing the music channel with full audio and slide show. I accessed the Ceton webpage config and saw that 3 of the Ceton tuners were showing in use:
Comcast music channel- playing live on MC Server
CBS- recording for 10 hours
CBS- not sure, just showing in use

So the CETON tuner was up and working the whole time. In fact we have watched the two resulting recordings and for some reason MC started recording "48 Hours" on CBS on TWO tuners at the same time! The recording was set for a two hour episode- one of the recordings stopped at after one hour, the other recording continued for 10 HOURS.

Also, I checked the up-time and log files of the Ceton and at no point did the Ceton tuner reboot. And I did not receive any email alert that the IP didn't ping. In the past when the Ceton tuner has spontaneously rebooted I can see- the up-time was reset, the log files show new startup occured, and I get an email telling me the IP failed to ping a few times.

After getting MC unstuck, the Ceton tuners were still showing in use so I did have to reboot the Ceton in order to clear the tuners that MC had tied up.

[tzr916]

HANG again just tonight while out of house for dinner.

When we got home, it was playing live tv on server and recording three tuners. Pressed stop on remote and screen went black, the program was HUNG. Hit CTRL-ALT-DEL, said MC not responding, click end task which killed recording but left the 4 Ceton tuners showing still in use. Rebooted Ceton tuners, waited a few minutes and ran MC. It started recording again where it left off so I tried to create a log file which made MC HANG again, repeat... killing the recordings again and trapping the tuners again. Rebooted Ceton and rebooted Server PC.

Is this going to keep happening every few days? I really like the interface and features of MC but I CANNOT rely on software that is going to hang and loose tv recordings every few days. I ran WMC on this machine with these tuners for more than 2 years and NEVER had this kind of trouble. I am very very close to giving up and not happy at all

Is there any real MC support besides posting here every time this happens? I will gladly give MC developers remote access to my Server if they want to look around and actually try to fix this. Is there some way to enable detailed logs that won't get erased after MC hangs? Do I need to do something in Windows event logs. PLEASE some one tell me what to do!

[RoderickGI]

I can't really say what you need to do. Difficult.

But I can let you know that when you turn on logging in MC, if you have a crash that kills the logging, when next you start MC and immediately run the "Report Problem" function, MC will save both the current log from when you restarted MC, and the Previous Log which should include the crash.

Of course, if MC immediately crashes again when you restart it, then you are stuck I think. I haven't had that happen but I suspect that the Previous Log will be lost as well. You may be able to work out a sequence that allows you to save the log though. Perhaps;

1. MC crashes when recording.
2. Leave MC alone, and reboot the tuners.
3. Restart MC (actually, I would reboot the server) and immediately run the Report Problem function.

[Yaobing]

Sorry about the troubles.  We don't often hear about problems like what you experienced.  Please do what RoderickGI suggested, turn on logging and send us the logs when it happens again.  In order to keep the log files from growing too big, please try resetting the log every other day when you do not encounter any problems.  When a problem occurs, go to Help > Logging... immediately (or immediately after restart, if the program hang or crash), and click "Report Problem...".

[tzr916]

I've had logging turned on since paying for license. The problem is getting MC to save the log file during/after the hang because selecting "report a problem" makes MC hang again. But I will try to do like RoderickGI suggested.

Other changes I have made:
Reset MC Log.
Re-order tuner priority in MC so that the Silicon Dust tuners are used before the Ceton tuners.
Stopped the program that Pings the Ceton tuners every 10 seconds.
Re-seated cable card in Ceton tuner.
Ordered another Silicon Dust tuner to possibly replace the Ceton.

[tzr916]

Just happened again.

Got log file but says too large to attach here.

[tzr916]

Log File:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B82GqdDf8HSyZUZVaFFNVklqSU0/view?usp=sharing

[Yaobing]

The log and the crash dump indicate that the crash occurred when MC was getting cover arts for recorded shows.  I can not tell why it would crash like that, and am not sure what relation there is to your tuners.   

[tzr916]

May not have anything to do with the tuners. When the hang happens, the tuners continue to stay up and write recordings to the disk for as long as I don't force MC to close.

So, should I clean out the cover art directories? Try to let MC get new cover art? Or what do you suggest?

[JimH]

The log and the crash dump indicate that the crash occurred when MC was getting cover arts for recorded shows.  I can not tell why it would crash like that, and am not sure what relation there is to your tuners.   

A firewall could possibly cause that.

[CountryBumkin]

May not have anything to do with the tuners. When the hang happens, the tuners continue to stay up and write recordings to the disk for as long as I don't force MC to close.

So, should I clean out the cover art directories? Try to let MC get new cover art? Or what do you suggest?

If you have your system setup to "watch" your recording folder and then automatically "import" and "Get Movie & TV Info", perhaps turn off the "Get Movie & TV Info" feature (for now) and then run that tool manually on each new recording to see if it works or causes a hang. I'm not saying this is the final solution, just a step in the troubleshooting.

[tzr916]

A firewall could possibly cause that.

Win7 64 machine, recordings on local hard disk. No third party firewall/anitvirus, only MS Security Essentials.

If you have your system setup to "watch" your recording folder and then automatically "import" and "Get Movie & TV Info", perhaps turn off the "Get Movie & TV Info" feature (for now) and then run that tool manually on each new recording to see if it works or causes a hang. I'm not saying this is the final solution, just a step in the troubleshooting.

Yes that is how it's setup. Ok, will turn it off and do it manually. Thanks, hope it's the cure.

[JimH]

Split Clean up cover art folder

[tzr916]

Right now the look up is done only for video files, i.e. already recorded, not on EPG programs.  No the look up happens after the recording is done.  So the filename will not be changed.

Before this Server Hang problem, I have been having issues where the cover art does not show up until I run Import tool (or create my own). Still seems the automatic cover art is not working. Or how long after the recording finishes does the Cover Art show up in MC?

Test for Hang:
- Install latest version MC and reboot Server.
- Turn on Auto Import tv folder with (Cover art and Info).
- Set 6 recordings for shows I have never recorded before (no existing cover art).
- Checked Server 30 minutes after the recording had finished and the new recordings are there but NO COVER ART.
- Performed Import operation and Cover art showed up (no crash).

[CountryBumkin]

When you say "performed import operation" does that mean you are moving the files from the Recording Folder to another Folder where they are kept - or are you just highlighting the Recording Folder and selecting "import" from Tools>Import, or similar?

Do you have the Folder where the Recordings go "Watched" and do you have the "Get Cover Art" box checked in the "Configure auto-import" settings?

Sorry if this info is already provided by you elsewhere.

[tzr916]

Tools > Import > Configure Auto Import
Watching folder where MC is writing all tv recordings to.
Options Get Cover Art and Get movie & tv Info are both turned on.
Folder settings > all video types and ignore special types.

After recordings finish there is no cover art.
Go to Tools > Import > Run Auto Import Now.
Finishes and all Cover Art is now present.

Just ran the same test again and exact same behavior.

[CountryBumkin]

Okay. it sounds like you've setup everything correctly.
Sorry I can't be of more help.

[tzr916]

Just happened again...

I went to bed around 9:30. Sometime after that, while several tuners were recording, the MC Server stopped responding, all tuners locked up. When I got up this morning 4 programs had been recording for 9 hours, and would have continued unless I forced MC to shut down and hard rebooted tuners. Programs that were supposed to record after 10pm did not happen.

Log file:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B82GqdDf8HSyQm1xVVFNR3AtQmc/view?usp=sharing

[Yaobing]

Log file:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B82GqdDf8HSyQm1xVVFNR3AtQmc/view?usp=sharing

The file linked is corrupt.  Can you re-upload?  Thanks.

[tzr916]

Yep, it sure is corrupt... Unfortunately that is the only copy of the file that I have. So, until next time.

[blgentry]

Something is wrong.  The only person I know of having this problem, provides a log file that just happens to be corrupt?  This seems like a system problem.  Bad RAM, bad disk controller, bad CPU, poor cooling... something.

It's just too much of a coincidence for this problem to only happen to one person and then for the log file to be corrupted.  I can't tell you the last time I saw a corrupted file on any of my systems.

Brian.

[tzr916]

This hang issue only occurs once every 2 months or so, a lot less since MC has released more recent versions. It was much worse before a certain version of MC.

Do not suspect the PC at all. I built this Server PC back in 2009, used it for WMC for years. And over time upgraded some things, clean install of Win10 + MC, and keep it lean/mean/cool.

I actually found the original log file on the Server and it is corrupt as well. Only the "previous log.txt" file is corrupt, the other two files and the ZIP container are fine. So the corruption appears to have happened straight from the MC log creation process.

[tzr916]

Repaired the "previous log.txt" file using a free zip file repair tool program:
http://www.essentialdatatools.com/products/objectfixzip/

Here is the link to the repaired zip file (beware, when unzipped the "previous log.txt" file appears to be over 5GB and 80 million lines):
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B82GqdDf8HSyeDdyZnkyUEZjMWc&usp=sharing

[muzicman0]

Not the only person.  This also happens to me every couple of months.  Most recently on an episode of NCIS Los Angeles about 2 weeks ago. 

[tzr916]

Happened again last night  ?

Two programs recording non-stop for more than 6 hours until I killed MC, rebooted tuners.

Have no idea if this is relevant but I noticed in the log from last time and this time, that the last lines in the log are "TV" and have to do with "getting PMT" and "dropping last frame".

Log file (verified not corrupt) is LARGE when unzipped....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B82GqdDf8HSyZjVhMV9NNVlMNG8/view?usp=sharing

[CountryBumkin]

It may help to keep log size manageable if you "reset" the log every day (or two) when everything is running properly.
Then when there is a problem captured, the log will be much smaller and easier to post and read.

[tzr916]

I reset the log one week ago, immediately after crash and collection of the log.

I didn't go back very far but I have a feeling the TV entries in the log are actually repeating HUNDREDS of times in the log, as long as MC is locked up and continuously recording, thus the large size.

[JimH]

You may have a tuner that is broken or the driver isn't working.

You could test this by using half of your tuners for a while and removing the others, including drivers. 

If the problem continues, test with the other half.

[tzr916]

I can't tell if Yaobing is reading my logs... Be nice to know if someone is working on this problem because it seems to be happening on a more frequent/regular basis.

Happened again last night  ?

All NINE of my tuners/programs recording non-stop for more than 8 hours until I killed MC this morning, rebooted tuners. Log file that MC created after restart was again corrupt and I had to "repair" it using zip fix tool. Once again appears to have HUNDREDS of lines of the same group of repeating entries regarding TV:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B82GqdDf8HSyNjlQMkFRYVN6emM/view?usp=sharing



Right now my hard drive is completely FULL so I can't even record new programs unless I move/delete all these humongous recordings from last night....

[JimH]

Please try what I suggested above.

[tzr916]

I just went through ALL tuners one at a time and ran live tv, channel changes, recorded a few minutes/played back. Every tuner responds perfectly.

I have 9 tuners for a reason. You want me to basically cripple my system for "a while" with Sept premiere week coming up in a few days!

Did you read the logs? Can you point to the spot in the logs that hints to your theory?

[Yaobing]

I read your logs.

There are some things that are inexplicable.  While I can not pin-point an exact cause, I can not rule out a tuner issue either.  So Jim's theory is not far-fetched.

I added some extra logging for an upcoming new build.  However, I noticed that you are using MC21, so no amount of added logging in MC22 will help

[tzr916]

I don't know if this is a clue or not but one thing in common that I have noticed in at least the two most recent hang incidents:

I found in the TV Log area that one of the scheduled recordings takes place on two separate tuners simultaneously (same channel). There are two copies of the same show on the drive. One copy is an hour long (normal), but the other copy is 8 hours long (just like the other shows that were on hung tuners). I verified the show had two recording rules that apparently seem to have some kind of "overlap" causing MC to grab two tuners and record it at the same time & channel on both tuners.

I've even caught this "double recording" in progress before and what I do is stop one of them then try to find and fix the "duplicate" recording rules. Problem is this kind of thing does NOT show up in the TBR list. If only MC could recognize that a show is going to simultaneously record on two tuners and allow the user to correct it before hand.

[JimH]

I have 9 tuners for a reason. You want me to basically cripple my system for "a while" with Sept premiere week coming up in a few days!

Hey, I personally don't care what you do.  You can go on using it the way you are.  But if you want to make any progress, you've got to be willing to do the work.  Using half your tuners for a week or two doesn't seem like a terrible sacrifice.

As Yaobing points out, using MC21 also won't get you anywhere.  Even if we find and fix a problem, we won't do it for an old version.

[tzr916]

...Using half your tuners for a week or two doesn't seem like a terrible sacrifice...

I would consider purposely missing shows that won't re-air for months (if at all) an unnecessary sacrifice. I'm all ears for a more logical approach, something that can be performed in "off hours".

[blgentry]

Recording is a luxury.  Recording 2 shows at once is a huge luxury.  4 shows at once is incredible.

Having been a heavy DVR user at one point, I understand that it's something you get used to.  If you just want software that works and someone to blame when it doesn't, you probably should be using some other software.  If you want JRiver to be your choice, you'll need to work with the staff a little to get unusual issues resolved.

As always, these are just MY OPINIONS and you can feel free to ignore me.

Brian.

[Yaobing]

I found in the TV Log area that one of the scheduled recordings takes place on two separate tuners simultaneously (same channel). There are two copies of the same show on the drive. One copy is an hour long (normal), but the other copy is 8 hours long (just like the other shows that were on hung tuners). I verified the show had two recording rules that apparently seem to have some kind of "overlap" causing MC to grab two tuners and record it at the same time & channel on both tuners.

Thanks for this info.  This may be the crucial missing link.

I found from your logs a strong correlation.  All three offending tuners were Ceton tuners (not the same one, but different tuners on the same device).  In all three cases however, the problem occurred while two tuners were recording the same show on the same channel.  You should consider removing one of your recording rules.  These shows are aired 9 pm, and possibly repeated at midnight.  So in your September 4th log, four recordings were created.  Two started at 8:59 pm and ended around 10 pm.  Then two more started at 11:59 pm.  When one of them was to be stopped, stopping actually succeeded, resulting in a normal length recording.  When the tuner was to be removed from actions, the program hang.  That blocked all other actions and prevented all other recordings from being stopped.

The recording rule IDs that resulted simultaneous recordings of the same show are: 723371959 and 1066369657.

[Yaobing]

Even though I found strong correlation, I have not found causality.

[RoderickGI]

Wow. What an amazing level of support from Yaobing for one user with a very specific setup and recurring problem.

Thank you JRiver and Yaobing for being such a great company.



tzr916: Upgrading to MC22 to access the additional logging features would seem like a good first step, that should be non-intrusive to your ongoing recordings.

[tzr916]

Evidently I'm not the only one having this problem and we don't know yet if the problem is truly identified/solved. Assuming it is actually due to MC recording the same show on two tuners simultaneously, wouldn't it be essential to have MC automatically cancel one of the overlapping rules? or at least notify the user? I've finished manually resolving any possible overlapping rules but I am still worried because every once in a while I notice some strange things in the TBR list that I don't expect to be there.

I really really appreciate the help from MC programmers like Yaobing and understand their time is precious. Overall, the JRiver forum might benefit from less personal opinion, conjecture, and hardware/system blaming.

You can be assured that I will be upgrading to MC22 when features that are relevant to U.S.A. cable card dvr are added.

[blgentry]

Overall, the JRiver forum might benefit from less personal opinion, conjecture, and hardware/system blaming.

OK, I'm out of your thread.  I probably should never have given my opinion anyway.

Good luck with it.  I really mean that.

Brian.

[tzr916]

Evidently I'm not the only one having this problem and we don't know yet if the problem is truly identified/solved. Assuming it is actually due to MC recording the same show on two tuners simultaneously, wouldn't it be essential to have MC automatically cancel one of the overlapping rules? or at least notify the user? I've finished manually resolving any possible overlapping rules but I am still worried because every once in a while I notice some strange things in the TBR list that I don't expect to be there....

Guess it's up to me to go into EVERY recording rule and change them all from "NAME CONTAINS" to "NAME IS", and from "SERIES CONTAINS" to "SERIES IS".

Happened again because I have these two recording rules:
-20/20
-How to Get Away With Murder

Last night ABC decided to air an episode of 20/20 named "20/20: How to Get Away With Murder". That means MC grabbed two tuners and recorded all night long, failed to record anything after, crashed when I touched the remote this morning, locked the tuners, filled up my hard drive.

[Yaobing]

I will work on better ways of resolving the issue of multiple tuners recording the same show at the same time, probably soon.  However, it may be a coincidence that this led to hanging.

Having multiple tuners recording the same show should not be any different from having multiple tuners recording different shows that start and end at the same times.

[RoderickGI]

While failing to stop recordings is a MC problem, the situation below would be very easy to create.

Happened again because I have these two recording rules:
-20/20
-How to Get Away With Murder

Last night ABC decided to air an episode of 20/20 named "20/20: How to Get Away With Murder".

I record "ABC News", but if I set up rules looking for an item containing "ABC" and another containing "News", then I would immediately duplicate your problem, with the "ABC News" program selected by two rules at the same time, and hence get recorded twice, at the same time. I may even have had that happen for some of my less strict rules, as I have seen two recordings of some programs occasionally. However, it has never caused the issue of continuous recording, that I am aware of.

I have sometimes seen programs marked as "Currently Recording" after they should be, but when I check the directories, nothing is being saved. It has been difficult to change the Currently Recording message as there has been no option in Theatre View to stop the recording. I think when that happens sometimes I still have the options to stop recording in Standard View. That has been a little unusual.

So yes, this is true;

Guess it's up to me to go into EVERY recording rule and change them all from "NAME CONTAINS" to "NAME IS", and from "SERIES CONTAINS" to "SERIES IS".

But it has always been up to the user to set up sensible rules, and if the EPG data is reliable and accurate, setting tighter rules such as "Name is" instead of "Name contains" makes a lot of sense.

[tzr916]

I'm 100% sure the root of this problem is in fact due to two recording rules that cause MC to grab two tuners and record the same program at the same time. No way it's coincidence.

I just spent 2.5 hours changing every one of my recording rules from "CONTAINS" to "IS".

It's puzzling why the default is "CONTAINS" to begin with. Add to that, you cannot force "IS" as default... it's basically a DVR that's setup for inevitable random failure.