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Author Topic: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?  (Read 13497 times)

Afrosheen

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Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« on: March 27, 2016, 05:47:00 pm »

I'm wondering if it's possible to implement support for a Full Screen mode so that when switching between apps, the Desktop screen is kept free and Media Center has its own "space" if you will? 

Thoughts on this?
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blgentry

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2016, 08:10:46 pm »

Hmm.  I keep MC maximized, so it takes up the whole screen.  I still have the bar at the top of course, and the dock at the bottom (which auto hides).  So when I use <command>tab to switch between programs, MC is always "big" and the only thing I see.  I do the same with several other programs.

Did you want a true "take over the whole screen" behavior or something?

Brian.
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Afrosheen

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2016, 08:15:18 pm »

I'd like to keep my Desktop free for only Finder windows, so when I need to view files in Finder, MC gets in the way.  When I use an app that is in Full Screen mode, any time I open another app, the screen slides to another "space" for that app.  So if I'm in Safari that's in Full Screen mode and I wish to open a download, the screen doesn't get cluttered with different windows because the screen only has the Finder window open.
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Afrosheen

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2016, 01:51:18 am »

John's neurotic way of computing is actually kind of why I want to make Media Center Full Screen because I can't really use windows resizing utilities on it and I don't want to since I need it to be maximized for all the info that MC displays.  But then it gets in the way because it is maximized, especially since it's on the Desktop space.
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blgentry

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2016, 09:01:12 am »

I'd like to keep my Desktop free for only Finder windows, so when I need to view files in Finder, MC gets in the way. 

Why don't you open a separate space (Desktop) and put all of your finder windows in it?  That would give you an isolated environment for Finder and a "clean desktop".

Brian.
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Afrosheen

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2016, 12:26:21 pm »

When I'm using a second desktop and then open a Finder window, it opens in that second desktop space.  If MC went Full Screen and I, for instance, wanted to locate the file, I would be sent to a different screen for those Finder windows.
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blgentry

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2016, 01:31:19 pm »

^ You say that like it's a problem.  Why would Finder being in it's own space, when opening from MC, be a problem?  Isn't that exactly what you asked for?  Finder having a clean desktop underneath it?

Brian.
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Afrosheen

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2016, 02:48:22 pm »

Because I can resize the Finder windows and conform them to the size that I wish to have.  With MC I cannot which is why I would like it to be in Full Screen mode so that it has a screen devoted only to MC.

Just try it yourself.  Make a second "Desktop" if you will and put MC on it.  Then locate a file via MC to view it in the Finder.  Is the Finder on the first Desktop or the second?
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blgentry

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2016, 03:09:24 pm »

Just try it yourself.  Make a second "Desktop" if you will and put MC on it.  Then locate a file via MC to view it in the Finder.  Is the Finder on the first Desktop or the second?

I tried your experiment and I think I see why you think this is a problem.

1.  MC > Locate > on disk external
2.  Switches to finder, which is on a different desktop and shows me the file I was looking for.
3.  I see the file and I'm done with it.  I close the new Finder window.  But where is MC?

At this point you feel like you're "stuck" in a desktop that doesn't have MC in it any more.  You could use Mission Control to switch desktops.  But that's too hard.  Instead:

4.  Oh, I need to switch back to MC.  <Comand> <Tab> .  This takes me back to the last application I was using, which was MC.  Done.

Notice that pressing <Command><Tab> and then continuing to hold <command> shows you a list of all running applications.  You can cycle through them by pressing <tab> repeatedly.  Or move the mouse over one of them and it will switch to that one.  Releasing <command> finishes the switch to the new app.

Again, just a simple <command><tab> takes you back to your last application.

Finally, note that I recommend putting Finder in it's own Space.  Leave MC where ever you want.  In it's own space maybe.  The big idea here is to isolate Finder so you'll have your clean desktop to work with.

Brian.
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Afrosheen

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2016, 03:14:46 pm »

blgentry,

I know how to use cmd+tab, I'm an experienced Mac user for over ten years now.  This isn't something that I "think" is a problem.  It's a problem.

Here's a massive window that I can't change sitting among other windows that I've configured by way of using a nice utility called, Moom.  If you've yet to use it, it's a nifty app that helps organize the windows on my Desktop screen.  Unfortunately, MC doesn't wish to conform because it's not a native Mac OS X app. 

So I am here to request since it isn't going to likely share native Mac OS X commands and conform to window size and shaping, I at least wish to have it support Full Screen mode so that I can keep my Desktop screen organized.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2016, 03:31:09 pm »

Wouldn't supporting OS X's full screen mode require MC to conform more towards a native OS X app?
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Afrosheen

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2016, 03:32:37 pm »

That is the end goal is it not? To make it act more like a native OS X app?
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2016, 03:47:49 pm »

IMO, I believe the end goal is to create a media player that works. I'm guessing if anything, conforming to a more "Mac-like" application is pretty low on the to-do list.

Nonetheless, if the devs are even remotely interested, this should get full screen support working: https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/General/Conceptual/MOSXAppProgrammingGuide/FullScreenApp/FullScreenApp.html

But I think it works for Cocoa apps, not sure.
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Afrosheen

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2016, 03:51:20 pm »

I thought MC was more than merely a media player… If it was just a player then why have tagging capabilities?
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2016, 03:53:26 pm »

It's in the name, JRiver Media Center.

I'm reading more about supporting the full screen 'experience'. I believe it's for Cocoa apps that follow Apple's OS X Human Interface Guidelines, which I don't believe MC does (at all?). Maybe it can be hacked in, not sure. But supporting this would change how the maximize/restore button works - it'd instead go to full screen.

Quote
Enabling a window of your app to assume full-screen mode, taking over the entire screen, provides users with a more immersive, cinematic experience. Full-screen appearance can be striking and can make your app stand out. From a practical standpoint, full-screen mode presents a better view of users’ data, enabling them to concentrate fully on their content without the distractions of other apps or the desktop.

In full-screen mode, by default, the menu bar and Dock are autohidden; that is, they are normally hidden but reappear when the user moves the pointer to the top or bottom of the screen. A full-screen window does not draw its titlebar and may have special handling for its toolbar.

The full-screen experience makes sense for many apps but not for all. For example, the Finder, Address Book, and Calculator would not provide any benefit to users by assuming full-screen mode. The same is probably true for most utility apps. Media-rich apps, on the other hand, can often benefit from full-screen presentation.

Beginning with OS X v10.7, Cocoa includes support for full-screen mode through APIs in NSApplication, NSWindow, and NSWindowDelegate protocol. When the user chooses to enter full-screen mode, Cocoa dynamically creates a space and puts the window into that space. This behavior enables the user to have one window of an app running in full-screen mode in one space, while using other windows of that app, as well as other apps, on the desktop in other spaces. While in full-screen mode, the user can switch between windows in the current app or switch apps.

Apps that have implemented full-screen user interfaces in previous versions of OS X should consider standardizing on the full-screen APIs in OS X v10.7.
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Afrosheen

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2016, 03:56:08 pm »

Neither does Calibre, which is an ebook management software, as it's developed as a universal app not built from Cocoa, but it still provides support support for Full Screen mode.

I'm not asking for a complete rewrite to make MC a native Mac OS X app.  That would be nice, but different from what I'm requesting which is to have only Full Screen support be added.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2016, 03:57:49 pm »

If it can be supported, I hope it's optional as I prefer maximize/restore over the full screen function.
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blgentry

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2016, 04:01:37 pm »

I know how to use cmd+tab, I'm an experienced Mac user for over ten years now.  This isn't something that I "think" is a problem.  It's a problem.

I was just trying to help you.  I supplied a solution that seems to meet all of your criteria.  But if you don't like, that's ok.  Good luck.

Brian.
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Afrosheen

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2016, 04:06:02 pm »

I appreciate the effort but the solution didn't meet any of the criteria though because you didn't really understand my problem.
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blgentry

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2016, 04:19:31 pm »

Hmm.  Ok, explain it to me then.  I thought you wanted your Desktop to show.  Then to have Finder be the only application showing when you switch to Finder.

Brian.
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Afrosheen

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2016, 06:54:20 pm »

Ok so first off, I've got mention that I'm using a 13" laptop, so I've got limited real estate on any Desktop screen.

When I have a window open on my Desktop I've essentially got them cascaded with the help of Moom and they're all layered in a unique way.  Apps that need or can't conform to this are put in Full Screen mode, like Safari, which has its own screen devoted to it.  When I switch out of MC with cmd+tab to use another window on the Desktop it's still in the way of the other apps underneath it, and because I'm mostly dealing with Finder when I'm working with MC to tag and rearrange my library, it doesn't help when Finder windows are buried underneath and then get in the way when I switch focus to it.  And I have to be extra careful where I click when I use the trackpad when I want to refocus on the MC window because of how it automatically selects something immediately.  It doesn't have that initial focus click like most Mac apps do; it immediately selects something where the cursor is upon switching focus to MC.

I just want to have MC to have its own screen so that it doesn't get in the way of other app windows that I've arranged, and devoting another Desktop to it doesn't help.  Remember, I'm working on multiple apps at the same time and those that are windowed don't work well with an app that takes up the entire screen when I've arranged the windows with a window resizer like Moom.
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blgentry

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2016, 07:50:45 pm »

I mostly understand.  See below

I just want to have MC to have its own screen so that it doesn't get in the way of other app windows that I've arranged, and devoting another Desktop to it doesn't help.  Remember, I'm working on multiple apps at the same time and those that are windowed don't work well with an app that takes up the entire screen when I've arranged the windows with a window resizer like Moom.

Why does a separate desktop for MC not help?  command-tab-ing away from MC would then take you to the desktop with the rest of your nicely arranged windows right?  Another command-tab to take you back to MC, all by itself, always maximized.  So no need to click or anything with MC.

MC can't be "in the way" if it's in it's own desktop.  Right?

Maybe there's something about your workflow that I'm missing.  Your example of locate on disk external would definitely work correctly with MC in it's own desktop.

Brian.
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Afrosheen

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2016, 07:58:59 pm »

MC can't be "in the way" if it's in it's own desktop.  Right?
But it's not in it's own desktop. It starts on its own, but it's really on shared real estate.  My preferred player is Vox.  But I locate the files that I wish to play via MC. So when I use the "Send To" function via MC, it opens Vox within that same Desktop space.  If it was in Full Screen mode, the Mac OS X would automatically slide back to the first Desktop space and open Vox where I can rearrange it among the other windows that I've got open in that space.  

Your example of locate on disk external would definitely work correctly with MC in it's own desktop.
Does it really open a Finder window in the first Desktop screen or does it open the window in the same Desktop screen which is the second one that was created for MC?
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kurushi

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2016, 03:55:53 am »

Hi,
Don't read all the answers but i 'll certainly usefull stuff hidden :)

Just for to say on mac we can auto hide the top menu bar just tick the appropriate option.
I use snap tool for resizing windows not the osx crappy one...
Have MC totally in full screen this way

Also Snap tool don't work with MC but i use it for to put MC & a window together...
but sometimes MC switch to his default screen size...


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blgentry

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2016, 08:06:40 am »

But it's not in it's own desktop. It starts on its own, but it's really on shared real estate.  My preferred player is Vox.  But I locate the files that I wish to play via MC.

That's very very odd.  But ok, no problem.

Quote
So when I use the "Send To" function via MC, it opens Vox within that same Desktop space.

You never mentioned this.  Ok, I've tried it and I see the same thing you do.  But keep reading...

Quote
That's why I wanted you to try this on your own first.  Does it really open a Finder window in the first Desktop screen or does it open the window in the same Desktop screen which is the second one that was created for MC?

I tried doing "locate on disk external".  It moved me to the desktop where Finder was displayed.  It did NOT open finder on MC's desktop.  MC stayed isolated, by itself.  As I reported above.

I also did another experiment:

Desktop 1:  Everything I run, including Finder.  Except for the items below.
Desktop 2:  Just MC, all by itself.
Desktop 3:  VLC all by itself.

I don't use Vox but VLC should be a very similar application to test with.  So I did "send to > Send to (external) > VLC" .  It sent the song I selected to VLC and VLC started playing it.  It played in it's own isolated desktop as expected.


Brian.
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blgentry

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2016, 01:07:56 pm »

I got the impression, from reading your responses, that you thought my suggestions for an alternate solution were "wrong" because they didn't fit what you asked for: A full screen mode.  I almost stopped posting suggestions, but I tried what you asked, it worked as expected, yet you said it didn't.  So I asked for more details.  I again repeated the experiments, used the new information you gave me, and got the results I expected.

I probably haven't been as neutral in my tone as I could have been.  If I've been insulting or "questioned your character", then I'm sorry.  I definitely intended to challenge you due to your tone.  But I didn't intend to insult you or call you names or say you were a bad person.

I've felt mildly insulted by your tone and I said so.  I'm sorry if ...

Brian.
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glynor

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2016, 01:54:31 pm »

A few things:

1. Media Center is a native Mac OS application. It is written in C++, just like many of the underlying frameworks in OSX. It is not written against the AppKit framework (except where required), which is what you meant. However, the native programming languages for Mac OSX are C, C++, Objective C, and (now) Swift.

2. I don't know for sure, but I'd imagine that implementing this would require re-implementing a substantial portion of NSWindow and/or NSView. This doesn't seem likely unless there is a huge requirement for it, and it would also make MC much more fragile with future OS-level changes.

The answer to your central question is this: No. MC does not support the newer OSX fullscreen APIs.

None of us know if it will in the future. I'm sure JRiver staff have seen your request and will consider it against all of the other things that need to be done. Only they know whether it is an afternoon or months (and 10s-of-thousands of dollars in cost) to implement.
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JimH

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2016, 07:01:12 am »

I removed some of the crabby parts above.  Let's try again.
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fitbrit

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2016, 10:51:41 am »

Did you consider that blgentry's solutions might be exactly what you're looking for, but Moom is preventing it from doing what it is doing on his system?
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Afrosheen

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2016, 03:47:42 am »

Jim, thanks for reopening this thread.  To appeal towards that fresh start I do not wish to backtrack and engage with previous comments in this thread because of how hairy the discussion got. 

Instead, for those interested in wanting to see actual full screen support, I will touch upon a workaround that just came up a little bit short, with the hope of possibly identifying where the incompatibility lies and either sending it to the developer of the project or possibly seeing it addressed in a future release of MC.  Therefore the discussion from here is pretty complicated and meant for power users familiar with the MacOS.  Please, if you do not have a comment that is germane to this post, please do not derail it with a suggestion that you think works as a substitute.  As I mentioned, the suggestions do not work. 

In my search for a solution I came upon this project on GitHub.  The workaround is a bit convoluted because the command to "Enter Full Screen" mode isn't available as a menu item in MC that native Mac apps have.  However, the command is available via Quicksilver through the use of its proxy command. To note, invoking the command without first adding the SIMBL file from the GitHub project did nothing. 

First, as a brief intro the workaround, the project on GitHub that I linked to enables Full Screen support on apps that don't normally provide it.  To install it, I used MySIMBL to quickly install and enable/disable it.  Once enabled I had to use the Quicksilver app to enter Full Screen mode in Media Center because the command isn't provided within the menu commands of the MC app, but the command, "Enter Full Screen," is available via Quicksilver's proxy command.

I use QS's proxy command on other apps to quickly invoke menu commands without having to use my trackpad, so this isn't specifically set up for MC.  But to help others get to where I got to, here's how to set up QS's proxy command:

1. Go into QS's Preferences;
2. Go to Triggers;
3. Hit the "+" button at the bottom of the window to create a custom trigger;
4. Select "Keyboard";
5. In the first pane type "current application" then hit tab when "current application" shows up;
6. In the second pane type "show menu" until it too shows up as the selection then hit enter;
7. A hotkey is needed to trigger the trigger just created: to do so use the cursor and hit the empty space in the "Trigger" column.
8. In the sidebar that opens the shortcut box will be highlighted.  I've used "cmd+enter" as my shortcut, but yours could be anything.

Once that is setup, the QS proxy command could be used on any app.  But I've listed the steps here to show the effects of the SIMBL file on MC. 

So once the SIMBL file has been properly installed and the QS command is set up, I opened MC and invoked QS's proxy command to show MC's menu items, which there are only four, one being "Enter Full Screen."  **DO NOT INVOKE** the command unless you wish to experience the incompatibility that I experienced. What happens next is MC goes into Full Screen mode, but it becomes unresponsive and the MacOS indefinitely creates a new space for MC to go into Full Screen mode.  The only way to stop it is to either force quit MC or let MC crash on its own.

I'm wondering if there is a way to figure out why this happens and possibly see if Media Center could be made to work with this SIMBL tweak if there's a simple way to make it work?  Or I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable than me could "diagnose" the incompatibility that I could then send to the developer of the GitHub project.  It's a shot that I thought was worth taking.
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unfrostedpoptart

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Re: Full Screen support on MC for Mac?
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2016, 01:18:03 pm »

A few things:

1. Media Center is a native Mac OS application. It is written in C++, just like many of the underlying frameworks in OSX. It is not written against the AppKit framework (except where required), which is what you meant. However, the native programming languages for Mac OSX are C, C++, Objective C, and (now) Swift.

2. I don't know for sure, but I'd imagine that implementing this would require re-implementing a substantial portion of NSWindow and/or NSView. This doesn't seem likely unless there is a huge requirement for it, and it would also make MC much more fragile with future OS-level changes.

The answer to your central question is this: No. MC does not support the newer OSX fullscreen APIs.

None of us know if it will in the future. I'm sure JRiver staff have seen your request and will consider it against all of the other things that need to be done. Only they know whether it is an afternoon or months (and 10s-of-thousands of dollars in cost) to implement.


I'd really like it to support full screen also.  I have multiple monitors and multiple desktops and it's a pain that I can't stop MC from ending up in front of or behind other windows since it's not running full screen.  Yes, I put it in its own desktop and maximize it but that's not the same.

Also, related to not acting like a real Mac program, it's also a pain when I'm editing tags that some keyboard shortcuts work like a Mac (e.g. cmd-c, cmd-v) but others do not (e.g. ctrl-a, ctrl-k, opt-left/right).  It really slows me down when trying to fix the tags for over 1000 albums worth of tracks!

One more on a related note - I just read the thread about MC for Mac not supporting visualizations because JRiver had used (Windows only) Direct3D instead of a multi-platform equivalent like OpenGL.  I hope that as JRiver wants to get more customers (and money) from their Mac and Linux versions, they are working at making the program as platform-independent as possible and isolating the OS-specific code so that the Mac and Linux versions aren't always behind the Windows version in features that need to be ported.

 David
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