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[Vocalpoint]

I am thinking I may dip my toes into some TV via MC - but need to start with what hardware will work for me.

For me - it will be HD recording from set top box - what's hot? And more importantly - works great with MC?

Look forward to some suggestions.

Cheers!

VP

[CountryBumkin]

The internal Hauppauge cards work great (at least in the US). The Hauppauge USB TV Sticks work well too.

I have not used a "network/DNLA" TV card (like the HDHomeRun Connect) myself, but from reading the TV forum posts, it seems like those external devices are harder to get/keep working. My method - "keep it simple".

[imugli]

I've got a Hauppauge card here in Oz and it works great, even after a number of years.

They cost more from what I can gather, but worth it IMO. Rock solid card.

[glynor]

Two Hauppage HDPVRs here. But they're all disconnected for the summer...

[JimH]

glynor has been enjoying an idyllic summer.

[RoderickGI]

<snip> it will be HD recording from set top box<snip>

I'm not in the US, so I can't and don't need to do this, but just for clarification;

Are you going to use a Cable service as the source, rather than OTA TV broadcasts?

If so, your options are a Cable Card device, such as the Hauppauge WinTV-DCR-2650 Dual Tuner CableCARD Receiver if your source is encrypted/copy once, or using your existing set top box and sending the unencrypted (copy freely?) video to a capture card, such as the Hauppauge Colossus 2 PCI Express High Definition Video Recorder.

Note the restrictions on the Colossus (Some cable and satellite boxes do not allow recording from the HDMI port on the box / Note: Most cable and satellite TV receivers do not support un-encrypted HDMI video) and the video format supported.

Or the SiliconDust equivalents of course.

Anyway, perhaps tell the people here who are actually doing this which Cable service you have, what area you are in, and what capabilities your set top box has, particularly in terms of outputting video from encrypted and unencrypted sources (channels).

[Vocalpoint]

Anyway, perhaps tell the people here who are actually doing this which Cable service you have, what area you are in, and what capabilities your set top box has, particularly in terms of outputting video from encrypted and unencrypted sources (channels).

Cable Service: Shaw Cable
Location: Calgary AB
Set Top Box: Arris DCX-3510M

I will see what I can dig up on the box regarding encryption - but these are the key points for what I plan to use.

Cheers!

VP

[RoderickGI]

Well it looks like the Arris DCX-3510M is capable of High Definition output over a HDMI connection, directly to a TV or via a Receiver, which implies that the output is HD and not encrypted. In the past anything that could output HD Digital video would only be allowed to output encrypted video. If it was encrypted it had to be SD or analogue. At least that is my understanding, as a copy protection mechanism. I have no idea what the implications are for Copy-Once Cable TV content when using this device.

It looks you should be able to feed that HD Digital video signal into a Colossus or Colossus 2 and have MC change channels using the built in IR Blaster on the Colossus, and record programs as scheduled, for later playback. Or have MC change channels and watch it live of course.

It seems though that the Arris DCX-3510M is a two tuner device, and also a DVR with built in hard drive, and the ability to add an extra eSATA hard drive. I don't think you could get MC to use the second tuner, but I guess the Arris DCX-3510M might be able to use it to record programs, while MC is using the first tuner.

You may be able to use the DVR capabilities of the Arris DCX-3510M to record programs, and if the internal and/or attached hard drives are accessible as network drives, then MC may be able to import and play programs directly from the Arris DCX-3510M. That could be neat. The Arris DCX-3510M does talk about whole home DVR capabilities, but using MoCA (Multimedia over Coax Alliance) network infrastructure. The process looks proprietary and controlled by your Cable provider. Requires authorisation.

But you aren't really going to get the advantages of a multi-tuner set top box. I suspect you might just have to use it like a single tuner box.

If you do consider a Colossus, don't just take my word that it will hang together and work though. Search the forums for discussion on the Colossus and Colossus 2, as I think some people have had issues using them.


Disclaimer: As I mentioned before I haven't done any of this. I'm just going by specifications and past second or many hand information. so I may be completely wrong. Up to you to check it all out. Particularly DRM issues. Shaw does transmit Copy Once channels. 

[luker0]

Cable Service: Shaw Cable
Location: Calgary AB
Set Top Box: Arris DCX-3510M

I will see what I can dig up on the box regarding encryption - but these are the key points for what I plan to use.

Cheers!

VP

Last I checked, in Canada no provider allowed cable cards or other devices to connect to their Set Top Boxes.  

You may be able to hook up an HDMI connection to a video card in a PC.  Then you could play the signal out via HDMI and capture on a PC.

[Vocalpoint]

Oh well. It was worth a try.

VP

[Yaobing]

Hauppauge's HD PVR is a good option for capturing video from an STB as glynor said.  Their HD PVR2 on the other hand is not so great.  Some users had some bad experiences.  One problem I found is the use of mini USB port on the device.  It is just not sturdy and can not even support the weight of the cable itself.  That has caused a lot of "device lost" problem for me.  The Colossus is the PCI version which many users found satisfying.

[Vocalpoint]

Hauppauge's HD PVR is a good option for capturing video from an STB as glynor said.  

Even if the output signal is totally encrypted?

VP

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I have been using an HDHomerun Prime for several years without incident or problems.  But, I use it only to my HTPC and no other network clients.  Install was quite simple, first with a Comcast cable card, now with Fios.  The Fios tech and I got it switched over from Comcast and authenticated in much less than 30 minutes when he installed my Fios triple play bundle.  He had never seen the device before.  Quality and reliability have been great and recording is no problem, with the usual premium channel caveats, which I expected.  On demand programming, of course, is not doable.

I am not clear on why people would still want a cable box, unless their cable provider does not support them or they need premium/on demand, which I do not.  I hate paying for a cable box rental. 

[Vocalpoint]

I am not clear on why people would still want a cable box, unless their cable provider does not support them or they need premium/on demand, which I do not.  I hate paying for a cable box rental. 

Here in Canada - if you use Shaw - there is no choice. It's a box or nothing.

I suppose one could also settle for the 13 or so OTA channels and miss out on everything else.

VP

[luker0]

Here in Canada - if you use Shaw - there is no choice. It's a box or nothing.

I suppose one could also settle for the 13 or so OTA channels and miss out on everything else.

VP

I cut the cord 3.5 years ago and only use my OTA antenna plus streaming. Don't miss anything other than some live sports events.  Also don't miss paying $100/month for TV

[luker0]

I have been using an HDHomerun Prime for several years without incident or problems.  But, I use it only to my HTPC and no other network clients.  Install was quite simple, first with a Comcast cable card, now with Fios.  The Fios tech and I got it switched over from Comcast and authenticated in much less than 30 minutes when he installed my Fios triple play bundle.  He had never seen the device before.  Quality and reliability have been great and recording is no problem, with the usual premium channel caveats, which I expected.  On demand programming, of course, is not doable.

I am not clear on why people would still want a cable box, unless their cable provider does not support them or they need premium/on demand, which I do not.  I hate paying for a cable box rental. 

We don't get Cable Card access in Canada.  The big three companies have not been mandated to allow us access so they haven't.  And the cable boxes THEY provide (and only ones you can use) and usually intentionally sabotaged to not allow removal of video or recordings.  Features that are built into the boxes have been disabled.

[Vocalpoint]

I cut the cord 3.5 years ago and only use my OTA antenna plus streaming. Don't miss anything other than some live sports events.  Also don't miss paying $100/month for TV

We are getting there too - I have explored OTA antenna options. But live sports is important (hockey:) and there are channels that the family is simply not prepared to give up yet.

Streaming (in Canada) completely blows IMO.

Then there is Shaw's pricing - which is quickly pushing us out - it's only a matter of time...

VP

[Yaobing]

Even if the output signal is totally encrypted?

VP

HD PVR only has SVideo, Composite, and Component connections.  I can use component connection to my Comcast cable box and am able to watch/record premium channels.  I think it really depends on your cable company.  I have no idea whether the actual video coming out of the composite cables from the STB is HD or not because HDPVR encodes in HD.  So it could be possible that SD signal gets encoded into HD by the capture device.

HD PVR2 and Colossus have HDMI connection.  Again whether you can get HD contents of premium channels depends on your cable provider.

[Vocalpoint]

I have no idea whether the actual video coming out of the composite cables from the STB is HD or not because HDPVR encodes in HD.  So it could be possible that SD signal gets encoded into HD by the capture device. HD PVR2 and Colossus have HDMI connection.  Again whether you can get HD contents of premium channels depends on your cable provider.

I am thinking it's probably a dead end. If I cannot get true HD onto the hard drive start to finish - then there is little point.

And it seems my specific set top is closed - end to end. So no TV via MC for me

VP

[JimH]

You could read about the device on the Hauppauge site.  It has a good reputation for quality.

[Yaobing]

I am thinking it's probably a dead end. If I cannot get true HD onto the hard drive start to finish - then there is little point.

I did a little more test.  If I play an SD channel on the STB, the HD PVR outputs SD video.  If I play an HD channel on STB, the HD PVR outputs HD.  So I think, at least for my STB, I am getting true HD.

So it is all about what you can get out of your set-top-box.

[RoderickGI]

Since the Arris DCX-3510M outputs HD via HDMI, and that can be connected directly to a TV to play (or via a Receiver according to the manual) I can't see how the output would be encrypted. A TV doesn't have the ability to decrypt the signal.

If the above is the case, then you should be able to send that signal to a Colossus 2 in your PC, and have MC record it. My understanding is that there is a way for MC to record an incoming stream, via some channel selection setting, based on threads I have read here (Yaobing?).

But it would be a one tuner device (watch one channel, or record one channel, or watch and record one channel), which would be a deal breaker for me, unless the Cable service was complementary to OTA and Streaming services, for the channels not available otherwise. i.e. Live sport.

You may just have to buy a Colossus 2 and install it to find out. If it works you could drop a bunch of channels from Cable, to cut costs, and use OTA to fill the gaps.

[JimH]

There is HDCP.

[RoderickGI]

One problem I found is the use of mini USB port on the device.  It is just not sturdy and can not even support the weight of the cable itself.  That has caused a lot of "device lost" problem for me.

The solution for that is to stabilise the connection with something like Sugru mouldable glue or epoxy putty. It might make the connection permanent, but it would provide support. Use a very small amount, as little as possible.

There is HDCP.

True, and a TV does have the ability to decrypt HDCP content (my bad). I was thinking Cable Company encryption, which is no doubt different, given the Copy Once/Copy Freely controls. Plus

Note: Colossus 2 will not record video from HDMI sources with HDCP copy protection.

But HDCP is not mentioned in the Arris DCX-3510M manual at all, and the connection diagrams for HDTV over HDMI are pretty flexible. Of course that doesn't mean that HDCP isn't present. Arris could have made the assumption that any device in the chain would support HDCP, including the Receiver and TV. There does seem to be a little protection for unauthorised recording built in, based on comments such as

Note: The Component Video (YPbPr) output delivers 480i video whenever the HDMI output is delivering 1080p60 video.

So you can't play 1080p via HDMI to your TV, which would be HDCP authorised, and in parallel record 1080p from the Component outputs.

Both the Arris DCX-3510M and the Colossus 2 support HD Component video out/input, so that would be a fall-back position. I don't think HDCP can be supported over Component connections. There may be some loss in quality but it would still be HD.

Maybe the Shaw forum, or Hauppauge or Arris support would have more information. Or in order to potentially save a large part of $100 per month, purchase of a Hauppauge Colossus 2 for $139 and trying it out would be worth while.