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[tzr916]

Appears no more updates for MC21.... Tv in MC21 is stable for me, but what about all the features that we are all waiting for? Are any of them being worked on? Are they just going to be put into MC22?

Anyone made the switch to MC22 yet?

Is Tv stable in MC22 right now?

[CountryBumkin]

I switched to MC22. Everything works fine.

[tzr916]

Did guide service/download settings all transfer over and work without tweaking?
Did channel icons transfer over automatically?
Did all recording rules transfer over?
Does anything look different in Theater View? guide or tv series

[RoderickGI]

I have just upgraded to MC22.

I took the opportunity to copy my Cover Art folder from the default MC21 location to a new, non-version specific location, so that future upgrades will point to the correct folder from the start. So now my Cover Art is in "G:\Cover Art". I made that change, then did a final manual backup of MC21, before doing the upgrade.

Actually I forgot to turn off MC21 starting with Windows before upgrading, but the upgrade process properly turned off MC21 startup and turned on MC22 startup, as per my settings. Cool.

Not so cool. I closed MC21 before upgrading, and MC22 didn't find my old library, so I had to stop the timed automatic import process count down before it started importing all my media again, and then do a Library Restore to get my library back.
Even after a full restore including Library, Playlists, and Settings, the Cover Art folder changed back to the default MC22 location, rather than my new locations at "G:\Cover Art". Also, the back file location was still pointing at the MC21 location, when it really should point to the new MC22 location. Maybe that issue is because I restored from the MC21 location... But still, I don't want MC to start making automatic MC22 backups in to the MC21 location. That has always been an issue with MC major version upgrades though. I don't change that setting to a generic location because backups are version specific, unlike Cover Art, so they should be in version specific directories.

Did guide service/download settings all transfer over and work without tweaking?

The Guide Load process settings all seem to have come across successfully. I will see tomorrow if they run correctly.

Did channel icons transfer over automatically?

As above, I moved my Cover Art to a new location. My Channel icons are stored as Cover Art for the TV Channel files, so they are in the "Cover Art\Files" directory. As no thumbnails are moved over with the upgrade, channel icons weren't immediately available, but they appeared once MC22 built their thumbnails, as did all Cover Art in all views. That only took a few minutes. It isn't worth copying over thumbnails as it is an indexed database. Better to just copy the Cover Art files and let MC rebuild all thumbnails.

Did all recording rules transfer over?

They appear to have come across fine.
Recording Rules are stored in the file "C:\Users\[User ID]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Library\tvrecording.xml". That file appears to be backup up properly, and therefore is transferred to MC22. I compared the MC21 and MC22 versions, and they are identical.

Does anything look different in Theater View? guide or tv series

I did also have to copy my custom Theme over from MC21 to MC22. That is a directory named to match the Theme name, and is stored in "C:\Program Files (x86)\J River\Media Center 21\Skins\Theater View\Themes". My Theme is called Tiffany, so I just had to copy the "Tiffany" directory to "C:\Program Files (x86)\J River\Media Center 22\Skins\Theater View\Themes". If I had any custom skins no doubt I would have had to copy those across as well.

What I found that was a bit annoying was that my carefully curated and sequenced list of TV Channels was not carried over, even though I did a library restore with the check boxes ticked for Library, Playlists, and Settings. What I found was that the file "TV Shared Settings.ini" in the directory "C:\Users\[User ID]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Settings" was not included in the backup, and hence was not restored. I shut down MC22, copied the file across to "C:\Users\[User ID]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 22\Settings", restarted MC22 and my crated list was back. That file only holds the sequence of TV Channels as defined in "Options>Television>Manage Channels", so I would think it should be part of the backups, and be restored with the "Settings" part of the library restore. Yaobing?

Other than the above, Theatre View looks as it should. I haven't customised the menu system a great deal, because I know the pitfalls of doing so, but the changes I have made, which consist of a few extra views and rules for display, seem to have come across fine.

So, did you see any other problems yourself, or haven't you tried to upgrade yet?

[RoderickGI]

Having just played some JTV recordings made earlier, I noticed the audio was out of sync with the video.

I had to adjust the sync by 200 milliseconds. I've never had to do that before, for local playback. Well at least not that I can recall. The setting was at the default 0 ms, so if I had done it before, the settings wasn't carried forward with the upgrade. I might have to check MC21 later to see if it had a value for that setting.

[Yaobing]

What I found that was a bit annoying was that my carefully curated and sequenced list of TV Channels was not carried over, even though I did a library restore with the check boxes ticked for Library, Playlists, and Settings. What I found was that the file "TV Shared Settings.ini" in the directory "C:\Users\[User ID]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Settings" was not included in the backup, and hence was not restored. I shut down MC22, copied the file across to "C:\Users\[User ID]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 22\Settings", restarted MC22 and my crated list was back. That file only holds the sequence of TV Channels as defined in "Options>Television>Manage Channels", so I would think it should be part of the backups, and be restored with the "Settings" part of the library restore. Yaobing?

Version 22.0.4 had changes that should have copied the settings.  Did it not work?

22.0.4 (6/28/2016)

5. Fixed: TV Channels' custom ordering was not retained during library and settings upgrade from version 21.
6. Changed: TV channels' custom ordering will be included as part of settings backup/restore.

[DocLotus]

Did guide service/download settings all transfer over and work without tweaking?

Not for me. I had to re-run the Guide (it was pretty messy on the first builds of 22 but I finally got it working & has been updating just fine.

Did channel icons transfer over automatically?

I don't use them.

Did all recording rules transfer over?

Yes.

Does anything look different in Theater View? guide or tv series

Don't use Theater View but Standard View TV (which is the same exact TV viewing screen as in Theater View) is a mess for me. VERY slow channel changing (a LONG time problem for me). The biggest problem in 22 TV viewing for me has been playback of local TV channel recordings.
1: Playback screen may show 30 minutes remaining yet the playback will often just stop & the TV screen will disappear & return to the Guide for no reason at all.
2: There is no TV channel number showing on the TV view screen for any channel. As I recall, channel numbers used to be there.

[tzr916]

Think I may just stick with MC21 until I see MC22 version notes that actually include some of the features we have all been waiting for.

[RoderickGI]

Version 22.0.4 had changes that should have copied the settings.  Did it not work?

No, it didn't work. But that is because I was upgrading from MC21.0.90 to MC22.0.12. So the improvement wasn't in place for me. I have been a bit tardy in upgrading to MC22. 

I made some other "mistakes" that made the upgrade process a bit more problematic:
1. I forgot to shut down the MC21 Service before doing the upgrade. I think that caused issues later, after rebooting the PC, as both MC21 and MC22 started with Windows, even though MC21 had the Startup setting set to do "Nothing".
2. When I saw the popup reminding me to run MC22 once with at least a Power User account, I closed MC and its Service, then logged in to my Administrator account without closing the normal user account, and ran MC. This seems to have confused things a bit. That reminder message really should say to close MC, then right click the MC icon and "Run as Administrator". I think that works for the registration of components. There was a long discussion about that some time back. Too long for me to remember all the implication. Anyway, the message needs more information, as running as any other account other than the normal one means that different settings are used in MC, which is bad. Having forgotten all the details of a "good upgrade process", I watch a TV channel and ran a recording while logged on as administrator, and MC did bad things, like selecting the disk with the most free space to save the recording, rather than using the directory setting from the correct User Account registry settings.
3. Because of 1. above, I had lots of popups asking if MC could make changes to my PC, because both MC21 and MC22 were being started, they each wanted to register their version of components. In fact when I went back to the normal user account and watched live TV again, the DirectShow JTV file writer and reader filters had to be re-initialised/registered.

Really, the Major Version Upgrade process for MC should be streamlined and made transparent to the user. This is why MC is considered too geeky by many people. Just consider all the directories I had to know about in order to do the upgrade and carry across my settings and modifications;
"C:\Users\[User ID]\Documents\JRiver\Media Center 21\Library Backups" and "C:\Users\[User ID]\Documents\JRiver\Media Center 22\Library Backups" for backups.
"C:\Users\[User ID]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Cover Art" for Cover Art.
"C:\Users\[User ID]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 22\Settings\" for Channel sequence, if upgrading from MC21. Although as you say, that is fixed in MC22.0.04.
"C:\Program Files (x86)\J River\Media Center 21\Skins\Theater View\Themes" for my custom Theme, and " "C:\Program Files (x86)\J River\Media Center 21\Skins\" in general for modified skins.

It just feels like a bit much for the average user.

I also found another frustration while investigating stuff for this post. It appears that the first MC22 backup happened before I changed the backup location in Options. Okay, that makes sense. But then when I went to create a manual backup today, MC22 defaulted to the old MC21 location, no doubt because it is using the previously used directory. MC22 should really use the directory set in Options, once that has been changed, and not the previously used directory, remembered by Windows. That is another reason why users lose backups or can't find them. It could be better.

Of course once one manual backup has been done to the correct location, then future manual backups default to the correct location.

Anyway, a bit off topic and long but it may help other people with their upgrades.

[RoderickGI]

I might have to check MC21 later to see if it had a value for that setting.

I checked MC21 this morning, and it didn't require any adjustment to sync audio and video. The setting was set to Zero. So something has changed in this area from MC21 to MC22.

[Yaobing]

No, it didn't work. But that is because I was upgrading from MC21.0.90 to MC22.0.12. So the improvement wasn't in place for me. I have been a bit tardy in upgrading to MC22. 

5. Fixed: TV Channels' custom ordering was not retained during library and settings upgrade from version 21.

This should have worked.  I will take a look at why it did not.

6. Changed: TV channels' custom ordering will be included as part of settings backup/restore.
Posted on: Yesterday at 05:35:54 am Posted by: RoderickGI

This would not have any effect when you back up your 21 library.  It will only take effect when you back up 22 library using 22.0.4 or newer.

[CountryBumkin]

VERY slow channel changing (a LONG time problem for me). The biggest problem in 22 TV viewing for me has been playback of local TV channel recordings.

Starting a live TV show and changing channels does seem to have gotten slower. I'm not sure if it started at the end of MC21 or if a MC22 change or if a Windows 10 update cause it - but when I click on Watch TV to start live viewing, it takes at least 5-10 seconds for show to start. Sometimes I wonder if the remote click on the TV "Watch" button was seen by MC so I'll click again, but now I realize that the delay is in the software or tuner card.

And after I click the Watch button, I'll see the "spinning Windows wait symbol" for a couple of seconds before the Tuner starts playing. Also, I notice that when I click on the Watch button all of the Windows taskbar icons appear at the bottom, until the TV program actually starts.

It's hard to know whether the MC program is causing this, or if some new Windows update caused it. Either way, I can confirm that there is a long delay to start live TV viewing for me.

[Yaobing]

5. Fixed: TV Channels' custom ordering was not retained during library and settings upgrade from version 21.

This should have worked.  I will take a look at why it did not.

I tested again.  Completely uninstalled MC22, including the library.  Ran MC21 to make sure correct library is loaded.  Ran MC22.0.12 installer.  In the end, the library was upgraded correctly, with the correct TV channels and EPG programs, and correct channel ordering.

[Yaobing]

Tested on a Windows 10 machine also.  This one had no previous MC22 installation.  I ran MC21 to make sure everything was working, scanned for TV channels and loaded EPG.  Then I upgraded to MC22.  Channel ordering was preserved.

[IAM4UK]

Upgraded from 21 to 22.0.12 -- TV works, and channel logos came over into 22 after a short while. Actions like starting a television program (live) or changing channels seem slower, but the functionality is there.

[RoderickGI]

Tested on a Windows 10 machine also.  This one had no previous MC22 installation.  I ran MC21 to make sure everything was working, scanned for TV channels and loaded EPG.  Then I upgraded to MC22.  Channel ordering was preserved.

One thing I may not have mentioned is that when I did the upgrade, MC22 didn't find my old MC21 library, and automatically bring it over. I had to do the library restore to get my library back. I have no idea why that happened, except maybe because I didn't have MC21 running when I started the upgrade.

I also found last night that Media Network had been turned off in MC22, which means my Client wouldn't connect after I upgraded it. Also, the Cover Art directory in File Locations kept (at least twice) being reset back to the default, instead of using my new Cover Art location.

So basically, this upgrade has been weird.

Maybe because I run my HTPC/Server using a normal user account, and not an Administration account. But the installation asks for Admin privileges, so that should work. I don't know what was/is going on.... Okay, I see part of the problem. MC21 was up and running again on the Server, along with MC22. Maybe Windows 10 is starting it, even though MC21 is not set to start. That explains why Media Network was turned off, because if two copies of MC are running, it gets turned off. Some investigation to do.

EDIT: Windows 10 still has MC21 in its startup programs list, despite MC21 being set not to start. Plus MC22 still has two Package Installers running, which would explain the Cover Art directory changes. Grrrr. I might have to uninstall MC22 and start again. This is the worst upgrade I've ever had. A new thread for these issues I think.

[RoderickGI]

Okay. My troubles were my own fault. I forgot to change a script from calling MC21.exe to MC22.exe, so MC21 was being restarted every time the script ran. I think that cause all my upgrade issues.

So everyone, upgrade to 22 and enjoy the new functionality, including TV. 

[tzr916]

...So everyone, upgrade to 22 and enjoy the new functionality, including TV. 

So far there is nothing new from MC21 to MC22 in regards to Tv. I will need substantial reasons to upgrade, like:

- Tv Guide selection does not stay pinned to left edge when scrolling up/down. Suddenly jumps way to the right, off the screen, then have to find it and get it back to the left.
- Ability to have the Tv Guide vertical line optional.
- Commercial skip timeline markers.
- Auto-Commercial skip toggle on/off with remote while playing.
- After watching a recording (at the end of a show or when pressing stop), immediately show dialog to Delete or Cancel (do not delete). Instead of having to navigate 6-8 button presses to Delete.
- Client Live Tv of Comcast music channels is horribly painful (select channel, wait 30 seconds for "buffering", press pause, wait 20 seconds, press play).
- Pop up on Server and Clients if a recording does not start or end properly.
- Ability to start MC in last used USER ACCOUNT (without password, without programming a script).
- Replace current Tuner Priority method with Tuner GROUPS. Ability to assign a given channel to a GROUP of tuners rather that one specific tuner.
- Clients should show the Server's "Tuner Status" and "TV Logs" in in their standard view.
- Theater View Client Series Cover Art does not refresh unless you close MC and re-run. New and deleted episodes are updated when re-connecting to Server but NEW Series Cover Art is not updated (only get thumbnail). Refreshing is not possible with remote (unless reboot PC which takes too long). Asked for Theater View Restart MC "button" in Too Easy thread but went completely ignored.
- Easy Android App to view/edit recording schedule list (ala Ceton "My Media Center" for WMC).
- Add Copy Once channels.

[CountryBumkin]

Some of the features and issues you list have been discussed, and are on the list of things to do in MC22 (according to Yaobing).
You also have some good ideas/requests for things I have not heard mentioned before (or I forgot about).

You can look at the version's change list for 22 and see what TV improvements have already been made and decide if any of those are worth upgrading now (plus the upgrade cost is less for early-birds). http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=106080.0

The "copy once" ability is not going to happen. As you may know, there was a fund-raiser setup a while ago to see how many people were willing to contribute $ to making this feature a reality, and it came up way short.

[RoderickGI]

You have a good list and should keep maintaining and sharing it tzr916. Keeping reminding everyone. But don't nag too much please. 

Don't be concerned about lack of response on issues, requests, comments. It is part of the forum process. Everything gets seen, but not everything gets responded to. JRiver just can't economically respond to everything, let alone immediately. The JRiver business model is all about continuous, ongoing development, adding new functionality a little bit at a time, funded by yearly upgrades and new business. While that process has its annoying aspects, it has ensured that JRiver is still in business, and still improving the software, rather than having gone bust trying to built the perfect application in one shot, and then having nothing for the programmers to do. In fact, the developers are always developing MC, and so are experts in it, rather than having to learn stuff as they switch between developing different applications.

Lot's of us here consider the yearly upgrade cost to be simply a donation to the ongoing improvement process, and don't evaluate it as a "Do I buy/Not buy" decision based on new functionality.

[mstan]

Roderick -  Was the audio/video sync issue resolved?

[RoderickGI]

Roderick -  Was the audio/video sync issue resolved?

No. Not yet.

As above I changed the setting to 200ms for a while, which worked. Then I had to set it back to zero for sync. Then in just the last few days it has been a problem again, and I've set it back to 200ms, but it is still just a little bit out... except last night watching a movie it was perfect.

I haven't been able to isolate the cause yet. It seems quite random. Also, I have recently added a graphics card to the HTPC, and changed the Center speaker as my old one died, so I haven't really had a stable environment to look for the cause, or the time to do so. My issue could actually be the broadcaster, for all I know yet, as the problem shows up on the same channels at the same video format where it used to be fine.

It would be really nice if there were some tools in MC to assist with setting the sync, and adjusting it during playback, via on screen settings. Currently I adjust sync via Options>Video, and then stop playback and restart, to be sure of those settings are used. I also use some of those sync videos that can be found on the internet to check the sync, but they are a different format to TV broadcasts, and can only test while playing back pre-recorded video. I suspect the Live and Time Shifted TV is where the problem is most common.

Not much help, sorry.

[adeski]

Hmm.. reading this, I will hold off upgrading.

I went from WMC to JRiver as it seemed the least techie route and most stable out of the 'free ones'.
However, had lots of issues with MC21,  'waiting for singal lock', 'TV tuner currently in use' when nothing is being recorded. Turning on PC from sleep when a recording is taking place and the whole thing becoming unresponsive.

I think if the software was just focused as a TV DVR /WMC replacement using a remote, then the resource could be put into making it really great.  It's got so much going on, then only now and then will the feature list be applicable to what I use it for i.e. as a DVR.

Still after something less hassle-y and reliable like WMC.  Don't know of any other products out there though.  I am in the UK and don't want to use a $ky box/PVR. 

[JimH]

Roderick -  Was the audio/video sync issue resolved?

There is no sync problem that I am aware of in MC.

[mstan]

There is no sync problem that I am aware of in MC.

Allright, I will install M22 now.   Jim, just one thing: Do you install MC22 while MC21 is running or does it need to be closed?  Any special precautions I should take before installing MC22?

[JimH]

It would be best to close MC21 and Media Server.

[RoderickGI]

There is no sync problem that I am aware of in MC.

That's because I haven't worked out enough about when / why it happens to bother you guys with it yet.

The problem mostly gets noticed when we sit down to watch something, and I have to fix it immediately or take a hit on the WAF. There definitely is an issue though, which requires either a complete reboot (not confirmed to work every time) or an adjustment to the offset for video. Which later needs to be changed back.

I'll make you aware when I know more.