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Author Topic: Clinton vs. Trump  (Read 12798 times)

DarkPenguin

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Clinton vs. Trump
« on: August 09, 2016, 05:02:27 pm »

Trump suggested the 2nd Amendment folk might have a solution to Hillary. This election just got spicy.
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Bizarroterl

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Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2016, 05:31:12 pm »

Ok, first - honesty.

A lot has been made about Clinton's honesty.  I went to Politifact and found the following Politifact Scorecards:
Donald Trump:  http://politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
Hillary Clinton:  http://politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

Since Clinton is clearly more honest in her statements than Trump is Politifact as tool of the "elitist liberal media"?
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Bizarroterl

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Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2016, 05:41:04 pm »

Next - Taxes & Presidential Elections

The media and public seem to make a big deal about the candidate's stand on taxes.  Why is that?  The President is in the executive branch.  Taxes are decided in the legislative branch.  In the past the President may have been able to get a bill to be submitted and get congress to pass it.  In today's political chaos/oppose everything environment it is unlikely the President would be able to present anything to do with taxes and have it make it to a vote. 

So what's the big deal with a candidate's tax platform?
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mwillems

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Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2016, 07:45:12 pm »

Next - Taxes & Presidential Elections

The media and public seem to make a big deal about the candidate's stand on taxes.  Why is that?  The President is in the executive branch.  Taxes are decided in the legislative branch.  In the past the President may have been able to get a bill to be submitted and get congress to pass it.  In today's political chaos/oppose everything environment it is unlikely the President would be able to present anything to do with taxes and have it make it to a vote.  

So what's the big deal with a candidate's tax platform?

Three key points:

1) The President has a veto power, meaning that he or she can refuse to sign a bill, and then it does not become law unless Congress overrides it with a 2/3 majority.  Because a given party very rarely has a 2/3 majority, veto overrides are quite rare.  The president's tax policy is important if you're concerned about the tax policy of the legislature because the President can effectively prevent changes to tax policy.  Additionally, the President can use the veto power "offensively" to try and push through an agenda (i.e. pass my tax plan, or I'll veto this spending bill, etc.).
2) The President, by statute, must present an annual budget to the Congress of the amounts he or she thinks is necessary to continue the operations of the federal government.  As part of that process the President also suggests how to pay for those things, and calls attention to deficits, etc.  The President's budget is not a binding legal document, but it's an influential policy document that is issued every year, and gives the President an unparalleled opportunity to advocate for specific tax policy.
3) It's hard to overstate the leadership role and public voice that the President has.  A President can apply public pressure to Congress by advocating for something at length, and Americans will hear about it.  Additionally, when a President is elected, there's a tendency for some additional members of his party ot be elected to the Congress; this can change power dynamics in the legislature, and the new members are likely to have been campaigning on the same tax platform as the President.  This is how the most recent tax increase occurred in 2012/2013 even though the Congress was divided: a combination of presidential suasion and an intervening election both bringing in new members of the president's party and communicating an electoral "mandate."

So while the President doesn't have a direct role in enacting taxes, the president's position on taxes is very important if one actually wants to see changes in the tax laws as an unwilling president can effectively stop the whole thing, and even a cooperative President casts a long shadow in any debate over the shape of any proposed changes to tax policy.
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Bizarroterl

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2016, 10:11:57 am »

Trump suggested the 2nd Amendment folk might have a solution to Hillary. This election just got spicy.

That and the "election is rigged if I lose" comments are very concerning.  I this really what some want in a president? 
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DarkPenguin

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2016, 10:48:16 am »

That and the "election is rigged if I lose" comments are very concerning.  I this really what some want in a president? 
Those that are willing to overlook everything else he has said are probably cool with it.

Don't forget Evan McMullin. The unknown CIA spook being pushed by the republican elite who were run off by the Trumpkins.
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Bizarroterl

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2016, 10:25:29 am »

Actually Trump is right about elections being "rigged", though I doubt in the way he intended.  Gerrymandering is how incumbent parties "rig" future elections.  So Republican states can be "rigged" for republican voters.  Of course, if Trump alienates those voters then gerrymandering isn't helpful.
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JimH

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2016, 10:59:54 am »

I think it's going to be a rout.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

This site has been pretty good in the last couple of elections.
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KingSparta

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2016, 08:25:27 am »

Trump, I hope will not win.

there is something wrong with him...
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Bizarroterl

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2016, 09:22:06 am »

With Trump's off the cuff comment about Clinton & 2nd amendment supporters I was wondering something.

Suppose some nut case actually shoots Clinton in the closing days of the campaign and kills her.  What happens then? 
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KingSparta

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2016, 01:07:43 pm »

I would think trump would win, since he would be unopposed.

then again they might not take Hillary off the ballot, and she could still win.
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Bizarroterl

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2016, 01:33:50 pm »

If she still won then Kaine would be president?
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mwillems

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2016, 05:00:01 pm »

As to the original hypothetical, the Dems would almost certainly choose another candidate prior to election day; ballot access would be challenging, but that would be the least of their worries.

As to the deceased-but-still-on-the-ballot-issue: technically speaking the electoral college actually chooses the president not the public.  Historically electors have almost always voted for the candidate the people of their state voted for, but there have been a few "faithless electors."  In the event that a candidate received a majority of the vote in enough states that they should win the electoral vote, but were deceased prior to the meeting of the electoral college, it's hard to know what the electoral college would actually do in that situation.  Odds are good they would not all agree on how to vote.  One likely outcome is that no candidate would receive an absolute majority (a plurality is not enough), in which case the Constitution provides that the President is chosen by the House of Representatives.

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DarkPenguin

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DarkPenguin

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2016, 06:08:38 pm »

Huge if true.

Quote
    ALEX JONES (HOST): I'm never a lesser of two evils person, but with Hillary, there's not even the same universe. She is an abject, psychopathic, demon from Hell that as soon as she gets into power is going to try to destroy the planet. I'm sure of that, and people around her say she's so dark now, and so evil, and so possessed that they are having nightmares, they're freaking out. Folks let me just tell you something, and if media wants to go with this, that's fine. There are dozens of videos and photos of Obama having flies land on him, indoors, at all times of year, and he'll be next to a hundred people and no one has flies on them. Hillary, reportedly, I mean, I was told by people around her that they think she's demon-possessed, okay? I'm just going to go ahead and say it, okay?

    They said that they're scared. That's why when I see her when kids are by her, I actually get scared myself, with a child -- with that big rubber face and that -- I mean this woman is dangerous, ladies and gentleman. I'm telling you, she is a demon. This is Biblical. She's going to launch a nuclear war. The Russians are scared of her.

    [...]

    Imagine how bad she smells, man? I'm told her and Obama, just stink, stink, stink, stink. You can't wash that evil off, man. Told there's a rotten smell around Hillary. I'm not kidding, people say, they say -- folks, I've been told this by high up folks. They say listen, Obama and Hillary both smell like sulfur. I never said this because the media will go crazy with it, but I've talked to people that are in protective details, they're scared of her. And they say listen, she's a frickin' demon and she stinks and so does Obama. I go, like what? Sulfur. They smell like Hell.

https://mediamatters.org/video/2016/10/10/trump-ally-alex-jones-i-was-told-people-around-clinton-shes-demon-possessed/213712
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JimH

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2016, 06:36:19 pm »

There is satire, and then there is bad satire.
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DarkPenguin

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2016, 09:13:08 am »

Oh, Alex Jones isn't satire. At least that isn't how he presents himself.
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Bizarroterl

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2016, 10:01:29 am »

Freedom of speech is important, even if the speaker appears to be psychotic and totally delusional.

1000 years of darkness!  ;)
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Zootsuit

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2016, 06:10:55 am »

I hope that you're just needling the board. If you take that stuff seriously, you're beyond (secular) redemption.
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JimH

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2016, 06:26:22 am »

It's election day today.  Here's my prediction.

Clinton will win the electoral vote handily.

The Senate will flip.

The House will surprise people, but remain Republican.

I will have Cheerios for breakfast again tomorrow.
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DarkPenguin

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2016, 12:56:22 am »

Red ass beatdown for the democrats.

Von Clownstick is pres.

The baltics must be terrified.

Dow futures were down 867 before slamming into the stops.

So, yeah. Guess people really don't like them mexicans or muslims.

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fitbrit

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2016, 02:45:19 am »

I've asked our prime minister if we can build a wall now along our border with the USA. And suggested that I'm ok with us paying for it.
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imugli

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2016, 02:47:30 am »

It's election day today.  Here's my prediction.

Clinton will win the electoral vote handily.

The Senate will flip.

The House will surprise people, but remain Republican.

I will have Cheerios for breakfast again tomorrow.

Well you were right on one of those...

astromo

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2016, 04:57:26 am »

Why  ?  has it taken almost 2 years for this to get sorted out? - http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/17/upshot/how-presidential-campaigns-became-two-year-marathons.html

At least I learnt today (thanks to my publicly funded compatriots - go Auntie) why you guys in the US do this on a Tuesday:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-08/why-do-americans-vote-on-a-tuesday/7997998
... well it made sense at the time.

... hmmm ... and Brexit had me gobsmacked ... this one leaves me speechless   :o   ... thankfully, my fingers can still tap away on a keyboard.
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JimH

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2016, 06:22:26 am »

It's election day today.  Here's my prediction.

Clinton will win the electoral vote handily.

The Senate will flip.

The House will surprise people, but remain Republican.

I will have Cheerios for breakfast again tomorrow.
And Dewey won.

I apologize to everyone for everything.
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Solo53

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2016, 06:32:00 am »

Congratulations to all my American friends,especially Jim Hillegass & Matt Ashland with the victory of Donald Trump...You'll see - everything will be just fine!
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2016, 07:05:53 am »

Yikes, time to jump ship to Canada or New Zealand perhaps?
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KingSparta

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2016, 08:41:25 am »

Amazing, Like A Nightmare
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DarkPenguin

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2016, 09:28:53 am »

Congratulations to all my American friends,especially Jim Hillegass & Matt Ashland with the victory of Donald Trump...You'll see - everything will be just fine!
The russian guy likes it. Surprise.
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JimH

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2016, 09:56:21 am »

I think he's Putin.
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Solo53

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2016, 12:29:54 pm »

I think he's Putin.
Yes,I'm Putin... ;D ;D ;D
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justsomeguy

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Re: Clinton vs. Trump
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2016, 03:29:09 pm »

Going against the sentiment here but I think the right person won with the choices we had.
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