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[murray]

I don't know. It shouldn't be. Test it and see.

Ok it actually does work, but I'll tell you why it threw me thinking that it doesn't work!

Ok I had ticked  DTS-HD and Dolby True HD in Custom bitstream so it will automatically detect Atmos and bitstream it.
Well its very strange, it only detects Dolby True HD which is Atmos, and it works and comes out of PCM.
But none of the DTS-HD tracks will bitstream even though it is ticked in Custom, they all still go through as PCM, something has to be broken here surely???

Why would all Dolby HD tracks bitstream when none of the DTS HD ones will even when both are ticked in Custom???

In actual fact at present it doesn't really matter, but when I get my DTS X update this month, I need DTS-HD to also work like the Dolby HD ones do and bitstream.

Any ideas why the Dolby ones DTS HD tracks are not bitstreaming?
Is there anything to check?

DSP is on 7.1, tested on 5.1 but its still the same...

[blgentry]

Double check that you have the correct audio stream selected during playback.  I'm grasping at straws here.

Brian.

[murray]

Double check that you have the correct audio stream selected during playback.  I'm grasping at straws here.

Brian.

The audio streams are ticked by default as DTS-MA, the do not bitstream when ticked in Custom. Custom is marked as DTS HD but it must be DTS-MA as there is nothing else in custom except DTS.

Custom dolby true HD ticked works and bitstreams....

I wonder why dolby t HD in custom bitreams but DTS HD doesn't??

Maybe this is another new thread...

[blgentry]

We are talking about two different things I believe.

I'm asking you to play a movie.  Then right click and select "Streams" and then select an audio track and make sure it's the format you want.  Most modern movies have many different audio tracks and you might not have selected the DTS-HD track.

Brian.

[murray]

We are talking about two different things I believe.

I'm asking you to play a movie.  Then right click and select "Streams" and then select an audio track and make sure it's the format you want.  Most modern movies have many different audio tracks and you might not have selected the DTS-HD track.

Brian.

Im talking about exactly the same thing, I right click to streams, DTS MA is ticked and is on all my films...
Forgot to add, there is only one anyway as I only ever tick the HD one when I rip them in the first place, so obviously I can only have any others ticked

[blgentry]

Hmm.  At the moment, I don't have MC connected to anything with HDMI. So I can't really test bitstreaming versus non-bitstreaming.  I was hoping one of the many people here who do have those setups would read this and help.

Maybe you should start a new topic that's just about this subject?

Also, as a test, turn bitstreaming back on for HDMI (not custom, but HDMI).  Then try your movie again.  If that works, at least we can be sure that your setup can bitstream DTS-HD.

From there I think I'd make a new zone with a zoneswitch rule.  But that's getting ahead of ourselves.

Good luck!

Brian.

[murray]

Hmm.  At the moment, I don't have MC connected to anything with HDMI. So I can't really test bitstreaming versus non-bitstreaming.  I was hoping one of the many people here who do have those setups would read this and help.

Maybe you should start a new topic that's just about this subject?

Also, as a test, turn bitstreaming back on for HDMI (not custom, but HDMI).  Then try your movie again.  If that works, at least we can be sure that your setup can bitstream DTS-HD.

From there I think I'd make a new zone with a zoneswitch rule.  But that's getting ahead of ourselves.

Good luck!

Brian.

Yes it does work with just set to bitstreaming as that's all I ever used up until a week ago.
I changed for a couple of reasons, remember the title name of this thread...ha!
Now Im running on just PCM I don't have issues anymore with all my mixed media audio, plus the mono films play audio when in a playlist when they didn't when HDMI was set to bitstreaming...

The post wondered onto other subjects as when we fixed one problem we ended up with a new one... DTS MA not working when ticked in HDMI Bitstream Custom 

[RoderickGI]

What version of HDMI do you have? You need HDMI 1.3 or above to Bitstream DTS-HD MA. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio

But then you also need HDMI 1.3 to Bitstream Dolby TrueHD. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_TrueHD

But the real problem could be that there are two DTS-HD standards; DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, and DTS-HD Master Audio. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS_(sound_system)
Maybe the "DTS-HD" in Custom Bitstream setting isn't detecting both standards correctly. If you have a video containing DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, try playing that and see if it Bitstreams successfully. Otherwise, only a developer can confirm whether the "DTS-HD" in Custom Bitstream settings includes both DTS-HD standards.

Hint: MC's Audio Path should show what MC thinks it is getting from the video. In the image you posted above, it showed the format as just plain old "DTS", which is a separate checkbox in the Custom Bitstream settings. Check one of your DTS-HD MA video and see if MC shows that correctly.

In contrast there is only one Dolby TrueHD standard, although it may or may not include ATMOS encoding. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Laboratories
So perhaps the "Dolby TrueHD" in Custom Bitstream settings always correctly detects Dolby TrueHD.

[murray]

What version of HDMI do you have? You need HDMI 1.3 or above to Bitstream DTS-HD MA. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio

But then you also need HDMI 1.3 to Bitstream Dolby TrueHD. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_TrueHD

But the real problem could be that there are two DTS-HD standards; DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, and DTS-HD Master Audio. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS_(sound_system)
Maybe the "DTS-HD" in Custom Bitstream setting isn't detecting both standards correctly. If you have a video containing DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, try playing that and see if it Bitstreams successfully. Otherwise, only a developer can confirm whether the "DTS-HD" in Custom Bitstream settings includes both DTS-HD standards.

In contrast there is only one Dolby TrueHD standard, although it may or may not include ATMOS encoding. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Laboratories
So perhaps the "Dolby TrueHD" in Custom Bitstream settings always correctly detects Dolby TrueHD.

I have been bitstreaming for years and only changed to PCM (non bitstream last week) so it is working, I mentioned this earlier.
When I turn to just HDMI bitstream (not custom) the DTS MA work and that's confirmed on the front panel of my McIntosh 160 which is also the latest version of HDMI. Ive been bitstreaming on my Marantz, Denon, Integra also, Ive always done it that way.

Its just that when I set it on custom it doesn't work. Can you check with your setup please?

To me it looks like Custom will never work playing DTS MA when its only labelled as DTS HD in custom. DTS HD is not the same thing as DTS MA by the sound of things so its never going to play DTS MA in custom. Looks like JR never implemented DTS MA for custom bitstreaming, even though it works when set to simple HDMI bitstream....

Very very strange!

[RoderickGI]

I have been bitstreaming for year and only changed to PCM (non bitstream last week) so it is working, I mentioned this earlier.

I know. I was just working through the issues and including those first two sentences for clarity. Probably unnecessary. Pardon my rambling.

When I turn to just HDMI bitstream (not custom) the DTS MA work and that's confirmed on the front panel of my McIntosh 160 which is also the latest version of HDMI.

When you have HDMI Bitstreaming turned on, everything gets Bitstreamed over HDMI, if it can be. When you use Custom Bitstreaming, MC must detect the format to decide whether to Bitstream or not. Read my post above again, carefully. I added some stuff while you were posting.

Its just that when I set it on custom it doesn't work. Can you check with your setup please?

I'm not using a HDMI connection and can't Bitstreaming at the moment, so I can't check on my current setup.

[RoderickGI]

To me it looks like Custom will never work playing DTS MA when its only labelled as DTS HD in custom. DTS HD is not the same thing as DTS MA by the sound of things so its never going to play DTS MA in custom. Looks like JR never implemented DTS MA for custom bitstreaming, even though it works when set to simple HDMI bitstream....

That was the conclusion I was forming. If so, we could ask for it to be added.

It could be that DTS-HD MA is just detected as DTS, in which case when you select HDMI Bitstreaming, and the "DTS" checkbox is selected by default, all DTS and DTS-HD variants are Bitstreamed.

You could try turning on DTS Bitstreaming in Custom and see if DTS-HD MA is then Bitstreamed.

[RoderickGI]

Similar question recently: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,106307.msg739231.html

Answer: Zones and Zoneswitch.

[Hendrik]

There is no difference to using "HDMI" or using custom and ticking all the HDMI formats (ie. Everything except DSD AFAIK).

DTS-HD covers all DTS-HD formats, so both DTS-HD MA and DTS-HD HRA. Note that for DTS-HD bitstreaming to work DTS also needs to be enabled, there are technical reasons for this since it's the same base codec - DTS-HD is just basic DTS with some extra bits on top.

PS: there is no such thing as "DTS MA", the official name is always under the DTS-HD brand, ie. DTS-HD Master Audio, in contrast to DTS-HD HRA, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio.

The only subprofiles for normal DTS are DTS ES (extended surround) for 6.1, and DTS 96/24 for 96 kHz streams without HD extensions. All of those would be covered by the "DTS" option.

[blgentry]

^ So you're saying that Custom bitstreaming with DTS-HD enabled will NOT work unless DTS is enabled also?

Give that a try Murray.

Brian.

[Hendrik]

Yes, DTS-HD requires DTS to be enabled. The options should maybe reflect that somehow.

[murray]

Yes, DTS-HD requires DTS to be enabled. The options should maybe reflect that somehow.

Just tried this time to turn both DTS and DTS HD on with Dolby T HD ticked in Custome and a message comes up failed to connect to audio renderer and audio decoder. I also tried that earlier today and also had the same message. Custom will not work here for me when the two DTS boxes are ticked with Dolby T HD.

It works if only one DTS is ticked.

Whats up here, I cant be the only person wanting to use this feature

[Hendrik]

If there is such an error it means your current device doesn't support bitstreaming of the format you're trying to play.

[murray]

If there is such an error it means your current device doesn't support bitstreaming of the format you're trying to play.

Hendrick Im sorry to say but it does. As I mentioned earlier Ive been bitstreaming ever since I bought JR.
I just tested again after your post, as soon as I select Bitstreaming HDMI my DTS MA rips play as DTS MA on the front panel of my new McIntosh 160.
As soon as I select DTS + DTS HD ticked in Custom bitstreaming, all DTS MA rips show on my Mc as PCM.

For me Custom is the same as it has been ever since I started these tests, it wont play DTS MA discs as bitstreaming when ticked in Custom.

Something is not right here, it cant play when set to Bitstreaming HDMI then not when ticked in Custom, its crazy!

[Hendrik]

All I can tell you that it works perfectly for me, so there is nothing wrong with the options.

There is nothing special about HDMI or Custom, HDMI is just a preset of ticked options, and would behave exactly the same way as using custom and ticking all relevant formats, as noted above.

The only limitation to know about is that DTS-HD requires DTS to be ticked. Just ticking DTS-HD alone will do nothing at all. Only ticking DTS will bitstream the "core" of the stream only, and ignore the HD parts.

[murray]

All I can tell you that it works perfectly for me, so there is nothing wrong with the options.

There is nothing special about HDMI or Custom, HDMI is just a preset of ticked options, and would behave exactly the same way as using custom and ticking all relevant formats, as noted above.

The only limitation to know about is that DTS-HD requires DTS to be ticked. Just ticking DTS-HD alone will do nothing at all. Only ticking DTS will bitstream the "core" of the stream only, and ignore the HD parts.

Ive fixed it but I have to say there is something very strange with the behaviour of Custom Bitstreaming...
After testing this and trying every combination of over a week and having absolutely no luck Ive sorted it.

For me it does not work as expected. Ok I know you say tick both boxes DTS and DTS HD to bitstream DTS MA films, but for me that does not work. looks like many here on the forum didn't even know you need both ticked to get DDTS MA.

Well as you know even with both ticked my Mac still shows PCM.
Since Ive tried every combination, I tried a wilkd card and just ticked Dolby Digital to add to the mix OMG now DTS MA bitstreams finally!!!...WTF!!!
This doesn't even make any sense, it has to be a bug.

Look at the images plus the one of my Mac panel (movie 300 Hours 5.1)

[murray]

Back to the same old problem.
Everything works if the four boxes are ticked and I can bitstream for Atomos, Dolby T HD, DTS MA etc etc...but the mono DTS MA Mono films play no audio again when in a playlist.

Mono DTS MA films play fine as long as they are not in a playlist with audio files infront.

I have gone back to unticking both the DTS and DTS HD in the Custom bitstreaming settings and now the mono DTS MA films play in a playlist with files infront.

Thanks to all who have offered help, we sorted some things, but others still don't work as intended for me.

[mattkhan]

Is there a reason you don't want to use zones for this?

[murray]

Is there a reason you don't want to use zones for this?

There is no reason Matt, its just that I don't know how to do it.
No one that I know of has at this point said that's the best way to go...

I still don't have a correct way to do this, if the zone thing works...all good...
But I don't know how to set it up.

There are some unusual bugs for me when using DTS MA mono films in play lists. Most people here would never do what I want to do.

Often I think we are a bit blind here with JR when we are doing things that are a bit different to the masses, its not JRs fault or mine.

Anyway Im open to help, if you can fire away! 

[mattkhan]

it sounds like the simplest thing to do is to use apply some tag(s) consistently so that it means "I want audio bitstreamed for this file" then use zoneswitch to switch all of those files into a specific zone that has bitstreaming on (not using the custom settings, just everything played in that zone is bitstreamed). You'd want the zoneswitch rule to enforce that it plays back in that zone only.

This approach is described as option 2 in http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,101018.0.html

[murray]

it sounds like the simplest thing to do is to use apply some tag(s) consistently so that it means "I want audio bitstreamed for this file" then use zoneswitch to switch all of those files into a specific zone that has bitstreaming on (not using the custom settings, just everything played in that zone is bitstreamed). You'd want the zoneswitch rule to enforce that it plays back in that zone only.

This approach is described as option 2 in http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,101018.0.html

Ok I will study this.
Does this mean if I follow these instructions, DTS MA and Dilby T HD films will automatically bitstream without me intervening?

[JimH]

The wiki has a topic on Zones.  Make sure you understand Zones and Zoneswitch.  Experiement to see what they do.

[mattkhan]

Ok I will study this.
Does this mean if I follow these instructions, DTS MA and Dilby T HD films will automatically bitstream without me intervening?

it will mean that anything that plays in that zone will be bitstreamed

[blgentry]

I just re-read most of the thread.  Let me summarize and see if I've got it right:

The various problems with 2 channel content in mixed playlists, are completely solved by turning bitstreaming off.  The problem with mono content is solved with bitstreaming off.

Custom bitstreaming for DTS-HD (MA) content does not seem to work unless Dolby-HD is engaged as well.

However, the only real reasons to bitstream at all are:

A)  For Dolby Atmos, which MC can not decode.
B)  To see indicator lights on the front panel of the McIntosh Pre-Pro.

I humbly suggest that your 99.5% solution is simply to leave bitstreaming OFF.  This gets you everything except for A and B above.  For B, you can simply look at the stream tick box during playback and know that you're using the correct stream.

For Atmos playback, you can definitely set up a separate zone.  This zone will NOT WORK correctly with your mixed content.  I.E., if you want to watch trailers or cut scenes or something before an Atmos movie, you'll need to manually switch zones over to the Atmos zone after the other video clips are done.

Setting up this Atmos zone shouldn't be too hard.

Again, bitstreaming OFF seems to be a 99.5% solution.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

Brian.

[murray]

I just re-read most of the thread.  Let me summarize and see if I've got it right:

The various problems with 2 channel content in mixed playlists, are completely solved by turning bitstreaming off.  The problem with mono content is solved with bitstreaming off.

Custom bitstreaming for DTS-HD (MA) content does not seem to work unless Dolby-HD is engaged as well.

However, the only real reasons to bitstream at all are:

A)  For Dolby Atmos, which MC can not decode.
B)  To see indicator lights on the front panel of the McIntosh Pre-Pro.

I humbly suggest that your 99.5% solution is simply to leave bitstreaming OFF.  This gets you everything except for A and B above.  For B, you can simply look at the stream tick box during playback and know that you're using the correct stream.

For Atmos playback, you can definitely set up a separate zone.  This zone will NOT WORK correctly with your mixed content.  I.E., if you want to watch trailers or cut scenes or something before an Atmos movie, you'll need to manually switch zones over to the Atmos zone after the other video clips are done.

Setting up this Atmos zone shouldn't be too hard.

Again, bitstreaming OFF seems to be a 99.5% solution.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

Brian.

Hi Brian

You are pretty much right but not entirely...
1. I found that the original problem was solved by turning off bitstreaming, plus it also solved the mono films in a playlist of mixed content, my bonus was that they now work.

2. The problem I found in doing this was that Atmos films don't play unless bitstreamed.

3. As mentioned many times I don't care about the pretty lights on the front of the McIntosh showing, bitstream or not...

4. This is the part I don't think you understand.....Atmos does auto detect even in a playlist of mixed content when Custom is set to Dolby True HD so Im 99% done and happy!!!!!

5. As I get the DTS X update on my Mac this month I thought it would also be nice to get DTS HD films bitstreamed also working like my Atmos ones do...But as you know we tried to get this working...Hendrick said it would only work with DTD HD + DTS ticked in Custom. I discovered it still would not work (bitstream) with both ticked and only would if I also ticked Dolby Digital as confirmed in the photos I posted. This I then though wow, its done I can now bitstream both HD tracks....But with further testing I rediscovered the same old same old problem, DTS single channel mono films no longer play audio when in a mixed content playlist...bingo! exactly the same old problem as when I had Bitstreaming set to HDMI  Yes exhausting!

So Ive switched back to what works with compromise... PCM for everything and bitstreaming for all Dolby HD titles, Custom ticked with Dolby True HD only. This is the best solution as I want the audio tracks selected automatically.

It sounds like zone switching etc Ive now ruled out after reading your response today that it wont detect the different audio tracks automatically as I want. So that Ive crossed off the list. One done! 

Its all pretty good as far as Im concerned, but still wonder why some of these settings just don't work or perform as I expected. The mono DTS films in a playlist that don't play 50% of the time has always been a mystery now for many weeks... What makes it hard in using the product is the way I want to use JR is probably way less than 1/4% of what anyone else in the world using JR would want to. So its almost impossible finding someone else using or trying to use the product like me, if there was it would be much easier to compare notes.

Anyway lets see the fun and games start all over again when I get my DTS X update this month...

Thanks for your help Brain and the others who have tried, its been a journey...
As I mentioned before if I had a full time job these days I would have thrown the towel in on this problem weeks ago! ha!

[blgentry]

You seem to be selecting your solution based entirely on Atmos and DTS-X.  How many titles total of Atmos and DTS-X do you have?  Because they are the only titles that will be affected by having a separate bitstreaming zone.

All of your other mixed playlists, of DTS-HD, Dolby Digital, Dolby True HD, etc will all transparently play with MC doing the decoding to PCM.

If you don't want to do this, it's of course your own personal choice.  I'm just trying to point out that, if 99% of your films are something other than Atmos or DTS-X, then you're all set by using NO bitstreaming.

Brian.

[murray]

You seem to be selecting your solution based entirely on Atmos and DTS-X.  How many titles total of Atmos and DTS-X do you have?  Because they are the only titles that will be affected by having a separate bitstreaming zone.

All of your other mixed playlists, of DTS-HD, Dolby Digital, Dolby True HD, etc will all transparently play with MC doing the decoding to PCM.

If you don't want to do this, it's of course your own personal choice.  I'm just trying to point out that, if 99% of your films are something other than Atmos or DTS-X, then you're all set by using NO bitstreaming.

Brian.

Brian if I turn off bitstreaming totally, the Atmos titles don't play correctly without me going into the menu and changing to bitstream each time.

Leaving Custom set to only Dolby True HD and bitstreaming just those HD titles gives me much more than turning bitstreaming off totally.

Let me explain again...
1. What do I get with custom bitstream set to Dolby T HD only....three things...mono films play in playlists with mixed content, I no longer have the original problem of 2 channel jumping to 7.1 and loosing the centre channel dialog, plus I get Atmos titles detected automatically.

2. With bitstreaming OFF I only get two things...mono films play in playlists with mixed content, I no longer have the original problem of 2 channel jumping to 7.1 and loosing the centre channel dialog.

I would rather have 1. above with three things that work....
With 2. I have to manually change to bitstream every time I play an Atmos film.

Im very close to being 99.9% happy

[blgentry]

Ok, if you're nearly 100%, then I'm very happy.

My alternate idea is just to set up an Atmos only zone.  But if there are essentially zero down sides to your current custom bitstreaming solution, then that's wonderful.  I thought you were going to bitstream Dolby, and DTS, and DTS-HD, which would pretty much have made this all not so useful for you.

But it sounds like you've got it nailed down to a solution that you like. 

Enjoy.

Brian.