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Author Topic: TV set-up questions  (Read 5402 times)

mmcdona6

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TV set-up questions
« on: October 16, 2016, 06:23:49 am »

Hi there,

I'm reasonably new to MC and have been trying to set-up Television and program listings. In my house I have an always on MC server which contains all my media, and I then have a few client computers which access that content. One of my clients, has a PCI TV card which i have used for many years to record through Windows Media Center, without problem. I can't move the card to the server, because it doesn't have a PCI slot, and I'm a bit confused from the wiki about what I can and cannot do with the TV card in the client rather than the server. (To be honest, I'm also not clear what I should be able to achieve if the TV card is in the server!!!)

Anyway, I have successfully set-up the UK program guide (using the microsoft legacy option and everything else I chose the default) on this client. I have managed to watch a live TV show and also record one. The problem I have is that as soon as I close MC and reopen it again, the EPG has disappeared, and needs setting up from scratch again. I have had a similar problem with creating playlists on a client, which then have disappeared the next time I open MC, and am wondering if this is the same issue. Is there a way I can set my MC up to prevent this from happening?

Thanks very much.....
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Yaobing

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2016, 07:09:15 am »

This is the way a TV tuner is handled on a client PC.  The client PC can use it to watch live TV but can not record.  Currently when you set up TV recording, it is carried out on the server only because it is the server library and you can not record on a client and expect the server to find the recording.

A client PC loads a copy of the server library which does not have TV guide on it.  That is why it disappears when you start a client PC.  You can allow the client the write access to the server.  That way your server will have the TV channels and guide.  However, as mentioned above, you can not record this way.

The only way, currently, you can record a show using the tuner on a client PC is to exit from client mode and set up the PC as a stand-alone PC and then setup channels and guide.  Each time you want to record something, you need to make sure the PC is not in client mode.

By default once set up as a client, the PC is always loaded in client mode.  This can be a problem if recording is your main goal (as opposed to just watching TV live).  There is an option "Always load default library" under Tools > Options > Startup > Library.  Once checked, MC on that PC will always load the local library and allow TV recording on it.  You can manually switch it to the client mode when you need to, but should remember to switch it back to local library, or simply remember restart MC.

Allowing a client to record using its own tuners is on my to-do list.  It is a bit complicated, but I will get to it some time.

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imeric

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2016, 08:06:37 am »

Mmcdona6,

I have a very similar setup but mine actually has tuner cards on 3 PC where i perform different recordings. One for the kids, another for the wife and one for me.

Wouldn't want the kids to have access to the walking dead :)!

Eventhough not perfect, it works.  One issue i was having but seemed to have disappeared  in a recent update is that both libraries would show up when connected as a client to my main htpc server.

1. looks like you have tuner cards only on one PC which makes it even simpler so just make sure you set tv up on your client pc connected on the main library.

2. Make sure the MC server is running on the pc with the tuner card.
3. When you want to watch something just connect to your main server pc keeping in mind you will lose recording functionnality for the time being..
4. VERY IMPORTANT: Do not forget to reconnect to your main library on the pc with tuner card when done!
5. You could also do the opposite and watch recorded or live tv onyour main machine without tuner cards!

The functionnality yaobing is referring to is handy but will not do you any good if the PC with tuner card is running as a server and you don't close MC completely.  I asked for that functionnality but should have asked about the server part...

For me besides losing recording functionnality when connected as a client, the tv experience is a bit slow... But it is working!




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mmcdona6

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2016, 12:44:26 pm »

Thanks both of you. I will need to spend some time experimenting a little...and see what happens. I will report back later.
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imeric

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2016, 02:06:02 pm »

Please do!  I'm happy to hear back from someone with a similar setup!
I knew I wasn't te only one out there!!
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imeric

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2016, 05:59:07 pm »

I played some more with this yesterday and I can't really say it's working...

I still have the local library videos showing up when connected to the server in both theater and standard view and despite the fact I have a fairly fast Client PC and a really fast server HTPC with gigabit wired connections between all of them the client/PC experience is REALLY slow.

I know it's not my setup as the old SageTV was really fast and transparent whether you were connected on the server or as a client AND most importantly, you don't lose recordings when connecting as a client and have tuner cards on that same PC . mmcdona6 I'm very anxious to get some more feedback from you (or anybody else with a similar setup!)

To get back to the local library stuff showing up when connected as a client, If I double click the local file it will play the local content but if I try to locate it I get an error as per the snapshot attached. Toggling the option to play local files locally if found doesn't make any difference.  Those local files shouldn't show up at all when connected as a client

Can we at least fix that part so that it's useable? There has to be others experiencing this..If I can provide logs or anything else let me know.

Thx
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Yaobing

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2016, 06:29:14 pm »

What local files are those?  You should not be letting it import any local files (maybe you have auto import on?).
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imeric

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2016, 07:15:14 pm »

This may be leading to something But...Even if I did...As soon as I connect as a client it should ignore its local MC content and settings and just show files on the server as if I was connected directly to the server (just like Sage).

And that is whether auto-import is on or off (which is off on both machines).

If this can help in troubleshooting this, I do have very similar file import setups on these 3 PCs where the TV drives have the same drive letter but with different content for TV but home videos and music folders have the same content but on separate local drives (which also serve as backups...).

Having the same drive letters also makes it easy for library backup and restores.

I also have the same issue on the other "Kids" PC but this one has different drive letters for TV recording and the issue is the same.
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imeric

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2016, 07:23:55 pm »

And the behavior is the same whether I close the Server or not when I connect as a client
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RoderickGI

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2016, 08:18:22 pm »

And the behavior is the same whether I close the Server or not when I connect as a client

I don't understand this statement.

You have a MC Client PC connected to a MC Server HTPC. What "Server" are you closing or not?
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

imeric

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2016, 11:54:17 am »

I don't understand this statement.

You have a MC Client PC connected to a MC Server HTPC. What "Server" are you closing or not?

3PCs:
1. Main HTPC with a Colossus with STB for specialised channels + 4 ATSC tuner cards.
2. "Kids" PC in the living room with tuner cards
3. "Wife" PC in the kitchen with tuner cards


All 3 record shows.  Number 2-3 will connect as clients to the Main HTPC to watch recorded shows from the STB (Mainly sports) Those are the ones I'm referring to RoderickGI

The reason I bring the point of closing the server on those 2 PCs BEFORE connecting as a client was to see if it would eliminate the local AND the htpc content from showing up but it doesn't make any difference whether I close the server or not BEFORE connecting as a client.
My whole point is, if I connect as a client on another machine, only the server HTPC content should show up.  This has been an issue for me for ages (MC20-21 and now 22)
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imeric

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2016, 11:58:26 am »

AND FWIW if there was one aspect I would like improved that I greatly miss from Sage is the whole client/server experience.  Pretty much everything else for TV in MC has been greatly improved over the last year or so!
Especially stability!  I don't recall having missed a recording lately..If so it was because I forgot to put one of those 2 PCs back to a Server for recordings...(But those only handle Kids and home improvement, cooking stuff so...:) )
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RoderickGI

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2016, 04:31:45 pm »

Sorry I should have been more specific. I already know about your PCs 1, 2, 3.

I was more interested in what you specifically do when you "close the server". I suspect that what you are doing is;
1. On PC 2 or 3 which is running as a Client of PC 1, completely close MC, waiting long enough for MC to completely shut down as it can take a little while.
2. Restart MC on PC 2 or 3, which is set up by default to load the local library.

As you know, many settings are common between MC running as a Client of a MC Server using the Server's library, and when running the same PC using a local library. One of those settings that are common, and therefore active whether the PC is running as a Client or against its own local library, is the Media Network. Now your PCs 2 and 3 should not really need Media Network turn on, as they will connect as a Client of PC 1 without Media Network set up on them. But from memory, based on previous discussions, you also want to be able run PCs 2 and 3 as MC Servers to serve their local library to iPads, a bedroom PC, or something like that. So you have turned on Media Network on PCs 2 and 3.

What this means is that when you run PC 2 or 3 as a Client of PC 1, PC 1 is also running as a Client of PC 2 or 3. Or is potentially, if you have connected them that way at some time in the past. Therefore you are seeing local content on PC 2 or 3 while they are connected as a Client of PC 1 because the data flow is going like this, for example;
PC3 <= PC1 <=> PC3
or maybe more clearly, the local library content of PC3 is getting to PC3 when it is running as a Client of PC1 this way.
PC3 => PC1 => PC3
with all connections via Media Network.

Hence, when you tried to locate local content while running say PC3 as a Client of PC1, MC didn't look at the local directory structure. It looked at the reference to the local file in the library on the PC1 Server, hence the m01p:// message.

I asked the question;
What "Server" are you closing or not?
because the only way to completely close the server on PC 2 or 3 when connecting to PC1 as a Client is to turn off Media Network on PC2 or 3. Otherwise PCs 2 and 3 are always acting as servers.

BTW, the above circular connections are probably why your Client/Server experience is REALLY slow.

For example, I set up Media Network once on my workstation PC, which is usually always just a Client of my HTPC. From then on, even though I hadn't connected from my HTPC as a Client to my workstation PC, the workstation local library still showed up as an available library to view on the HTPC. Only when I turned off Media Network on the workstation PC did that local library disappear from the HTPC instance of MC.

Now the above may not be what is happening in your situation, and it probably shouldn't be even with Media Network turned on in PCs 2 and 3, but I think that it is likely if you have Media Network turned on in PCs 2 and 3, and have at some time connected all PCs in all ways. That is a consequence of using MC in a way that it is not, currently, designed or developed to be used.

Of course I could be completely wrong. But the evidence of that m01p:// message makes it likely that I am at least partially correct.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

imeric

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2016, 06:37:52 pm »

Media network??
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JimH

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2016, 06:43:57 pm »

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imeric

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2016, 06:53:36 pm »

Media Network was checked on PC2 BUT unchecked on PC3 which is the one I was experiencing with the most... I unchecked it let's see what happens. RoderickGi thanks for the tip...Should have thought about the DLNA stuff this totally makes sense
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imeric

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Re: TV set-up questions
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2016, 07:39:47 pm »

I re-enabled the Media Network, then  reset the Media Network DLNA settings as it may have retained the HTPC library settings I may have restored from for those 2 PCs a while back...  I restarted PCs 2-3 and local library doesn't seem to show up anymore (but this happened before so...I'll post again later to let you guys know if the issue is really resolved.)

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