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[Matt]

Hi everyone,

I'd really like to switch everyone to the new tag window eventually.

Right now you get into it by holding shift while opening.  And you get out of it the same way.

I've been using it quite a bit and really like it.

What I'm wondering is if there are any remaining problems that we need to address before making the switch?

Thanks.

[ferday]

It's awesome, the old window is long dead to me

The only issues I personally have is occasionally when typing onto a field, then choosing the 'best match' from the list, it gets briefly frozen and the tag change doesn't stick.  Closing the tag window and reopening always fixes it.

its not overly frequent so I can't say exact steps, I'll try and do it though for the data point. 

[KingSparta]

Looks good...

[mattkhan]

What I'm wondering is if there are any remaining problems that we need to address before making the switch?

it has a bright white background when using modern cards dark

[Matt]

it has a bright white background when using modern cards dark

It's using this chunk from the skin:
<TAGWINDOW>
  <Entry Name="Group" Bitmap="TagWindow_Group.png" NumberImages="2" Margins="22,1,0,1" TextColor="484e59" />
  <Entry Name="Field" Bitmap="TagWindow_Field.png" NumberImages="2" />
  <Entry Name="FieldLabel" Bitmap="TagWindow_FieldLabel.png" NumberImages="1" />
</TAGWINDOW>

Most don't have it so it uses the default chunk.

ModernCards Grey does have it.  Not sure if the same should be copied to the ModernCards Dark?

[Awesome Donkey]

Yeah, I don't think Dirhael is/was aware of the experimental tag window. I didn't know it could be skinned either until marko told me about it. If you can fix it in the dark skin, go for it I say!

I put it in the Grey skin as I was made aware of it.

[marko]

This post, and the one after it are still issues:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,101448.msg705653.html#msg705653

Also, this post... (same thread)
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,101448.msg735583.html#msg735583

and this:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,101448.msg735905.html#msg735905

The only other things I miss (or grate) are:
The artwork in the old AW can be clicked, and it opens in its own window. Not a biggie as I don't use it that often.

In the new AW, if it could better remember the expanded/collapsed state of each group, that would be great. Right now, there seems to be no rhyme nor reason to what currently happens. This can be quite frustrating.

[StFeder]

For me, the old Tag Window opens instantly while the new one takes 3 to 4 (!!) seconds to open. For this time MC doesn't respond to any interaction.

[Matt]

The only other things I miss (or grate) are:
The artwork in the old AW can be clicked, and it opens in its own window. Not a biggie as I don't use it that often.

Clicking the artwork in the new tag window gives a menu of choices with a way to view the image right at the top.

That's the expression:
Custom(Image)

It's possible that should be one of the "Add..." choices because it's a little buried.

[AndrewFG]

I've been using the new tagging window for ages now. Works fine for me..

[Listener]

Hi everyone,

I'd really like to switch everyone to the new tag window eventually.

Right now you get into it by holding shift while opening.  And you get out of it the same way.

I've been using it quite a bit and really like it.

What I'm wondering is if there are any remaining problems that we need to address before making the switch?

Thanks.

Matt, I reported on severe problems using the new tag window in this old thread.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,100751.msg698897.html#msg698897

I was spending 1-2 hours a night tagging photos on our Australia trip.  I soon discovered that the tags were badly screwed up. I was still finding wrong tags months later back at home.

I went back to using the old tag window and have not seen a similar problem.

I did not try to reproduce the problem because it would like have required hours and hours to find a reproducible sequence of steps that showed the problem.  It also requires that I create a test library with isolated media files.  I am not going to take chances with the music files and the associated MC library that I've spent 10+ years making.  I'm not risking years of photos either.

If you are dead set on eliminating the current default tag window, I have three choices:  see if I can reproduce the bug, stick with MC 21 forever or start looking for a replacement for MC all ripping and tagging media files. 

I'm willing to put in some time trying to reproduce the problem now because of your intention to eliminate the old tag window.  However, I won't go on forever trying.

[StFeder]

For me, the old Tag Window opens instantly while the new one takes 3 to 4 (!!) seconds to open. For this time MC doesn't respond to any interaction.

For some reason Matt may have my library, so perhaps you could just give it a try: load it and open the new tag window to see whats happening! Still 3 to 4 seconds for me.

[BartMan01]

One thing I was using pretty heavily over the last couple of days was the 'Filename Path' tag in the classic view. Am I just missing it or does that not exist in the new tagging window?

Edit: Nevermind - just figured out how to add it...

[blgentry]

I've found a few isolated things that I like to use the old tag window for... having a hard time remembering right now.

But here's a suggestion:  Since some people have issues with the new tag window, why not reverse the behavior?  That is, make the NEW tag window the default and let anyone who wants to, use the old tag window using the <shift>-Tag sequence that we now use to toggle to the new tag window.

That way new users get the new tag window off the bat, but old users that want specific things from the old tag window can switch back and forth at will.

Or is there some compelling reason (other than satisfaction) to eliminate the older tag window?

Brian.

[ferday]

if i mess up a tag, and use ctrl z to undo, the tag field highlights (as it should) but it will reliably not accept any further input.  closing the tag window and reopening works

[mark_h]

I now *almost* exclusively use the new tag window.  If you make the new tag system the default, please leave the old tag method accessible until all issues are resolved...  I'm pretty sure there I times I have to switch back to the old method, but cannot recall any reasons off the top of my head.

[JimH]

I now *almost* exclusively use the new tag window. 

That's our plan.

[Magic_Randy]

I end up using both, but the new tag window as the default works for me.

[Matt]

For some reason Matt may have my library, so perhaps you could just give it a try: load it and open the new tag window to see whats happening! Still 3 to 4 seconds for me.

Hopefully we'll have this fixed next build:
Changed: The tag action window could be slow to open when it was showing playlists.  Now it's much faster.

Feedback welcome.

[astromo]

How about enabling the up and down keys to move in the respective directions between tag fields?

Or is it a case of [Tab] / Shift-[Tab] performs that function?

What key stroke enables navigation between tag groups (General, Image, File, Audio, Playback, Advanced)?

I like the prospect of customising the fields / groups. One to play with later.

[Matt]

Clicking the artwork in the new tag window gives a menu of choices with a way to view the image right at the top.

That's the expression:
Custom(Image)

It's possible that should be one of the "Add..." choices because it's a little buried.

Coming next build:
Changed: The new tag window has "Image" as one of the add choices during customization to nicely add the image field and type the right expression for you.

[StFeder]

Now it's much faster.

It's waaaay faster. It's not as instantly as the old tag window is, but is under a second for me now. Thanks. I'll report back if it is usable now

[Matt]

It's waaaay faster. It's not as instantly as the old tag window is, but is under a second for me now. Thanks. I'll report back if it is usable now

The performance is because you're showing Playlists in the window and you have a ton of them.  If you removed playlists it should get pretty much instant.

[astromo]

At the moment to enter data requires a left mouse click - why not enable the F2 (edit) key as well?

When a user is editing metadata, they'll have a keyboard to hand. Navigation around the tags by keyboard should be facilitated accordingly.

[ferday]

once you've clicked the first field, you can tab / alt tab through the group

the issue (i see) with F2 is you need a selection for it to start the edit - when the tag window opens there is no selection (and there shouldn't be, i would hate that since i use groups)

[drmimosa]

In the new tag window, when I enter a value into the Comment or Composer tag and hit enter the pane hangs and doesn't immediately save.

I tag files on a very slow machine, but this behavior doesn't happen on the old window.

[park]

I've just opened it for the first time. I like it. I like how clicking anywhere on the group header fans open and closed the fields. I would like to see that happen in the Views tree too. (View headers should be 100% width of the tree so that they are easier to click on, like the Tag group headers).

Tab to move between fields is a useful shortcut too. I would be interested to see if there is a keyboard shortcut for moving between next/previous file in the files view list to save having to use the mouse to keep moving back and forth between the tag window and file list.

[marko]

Is there any possibility of getting rid of the data that's automatically added under the thumbnail when "custom(image)" is used?

This is especially ugly when being used for photographs. All that <XMLFN version="1.0"> stuff is not pretty.

Would it be a lot of work to put [caption] under there? Centered, without the field label? Just click to edit.

[Matt]

Is there any possibility of getting rid of the data that's automatically added under the thumbnail when "custom(image)" is used?

This is especially ugly when being used for photographs. All that <XMLFN version="1.0"> stuff is not pretty.

Would it be a lot of work to put [caption] under there? Centered, without the field label? Just click to edit.

Coming next build:
Changed: The string <XMLFN... is no longer shown in the new tag window below images.

It will just show the regular filename instead.

[marko]

Thanks for that Matt. Next up in useability, is, the groups...

Open the tag window....
Some groups are expanded, some are closed...
What determines this?
I expand a group, edit a tag, close the tag window.

Open the tag window again, and the group previously expanded is collapsed again....
Can the expanded/collapsed state of each group be remembered?

[mark_h]

+1

[marko]

Well, I've had some time for more of a play with this today, and found some clues in the "tag file info templates.xml" file...

So, currently, the expanded/collapsed state is not remembered, and I've figured out why the behaviour is confusing...

If you set the expanded/collapsed state of all the groups the way you would want them, then hit "Customise", make no no changes at all, and press OK.
Now, the states of each groups are set, and remembered each time the tag window is opened.

The confusion is arising because this is obviously happening when we quickly dive in to "Customise" to add a field to a group, with no thought at all as to what's expanded and what's collapsed, and when we hit "OK", the group states are updated and from that point forward that's how the tag window will open each time. We need to set them how we want them and dive into customise, and press OK to have the states saved.

We should be able to set the group state in the customise tool, always expanded or always collapsed, and that setting shouldn't change unless we specifically change it.

-marko

[ferday]

I confirm that marko

I suspect that the OK button press is what triggers the state save.  The "problem" is now that you've sorted it, I have a workaround and it will never bother me again :p

[Matt]

Coming next build:
Changed: Made the new tag window save the expanded / collapsed state of groups between runs.

[marko]

Thanks Matt.

It was mentioned over in the main forum that the new tag window was unuseable in the Black on Black skin, so, I knocked a quick skin up for it....

I didn't spend a huge amount of time on it, but it looks kind of OK, and is at least useable, which is better than what anyone using the skin has at the moment.

You're welcome to add the files if you want.
------------------------------------------------------------

A reminder that that wierd thing where, if a field is in edit mode and scrolled up, the edit box floats over the tree in an orphaned state is still there.

-marko

[Matt]

Thanks a lot Marko.

Coming next build:
Changed: Added a section for the new tag window to the Black on Black skin (thanks Marko).

[Matt]

A reminder that that wierd thing where, if a field is in edit mode and scrolled up, the edit box floats over the tree in an orphaned state is still there.

Next build:
Changed: Scrolling the new tag window will stop any open edits (instead of scrolling the edit off the screen!).

[Awesome Donkey]

Here are the fixes for ModernCards Dark Edition and ModernCards White Edition. Both support the experimental/new tag window now. So that should cover all three ModernCards skins now.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/hco5qqqo5q5xyeb/ModernCardsExperimentalTagWindowFixes.zip

[Matt]

Here are the fixes for ModernCards Dark Edition and ModernCards White Edition. Both support the experimental tag window now. So that should cover all three ModernCards skins now.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/hco5qqqo5q5xyeb/ModernCardsExperimentalTagWindowFixes.zip

Thanks so much!

Coming next build:
Changed: Added a section for the new tag window to ModernCards Dark Edition and ModernCards White Edition (thanks Awesome Donkey).

[Awesome Donkey]

Does that mean all skins bundled with MC support the new tag window? Haven't looked at the others.

EDIT: Ah, nope. Nearly all of them need slight tweaks.

[Awesome Donkey]

Here's a good starting point for Purity, you guys may want to edit these more (e.g. add the gradients and whatnot).

http://www.mediafire.com/file/8fcaj91dtla3v73/PurityNewTagWindow.zip

[Matt]

Here's a good starting point for Purity, you guys may want to edit these more (e.g. add the gradients and whatnot).

http://www.mediafire.com/file/8fcaj91dtla3v73/PurityNewTagWindow.zip

Thanks!  I've sure included that for the next build.

[Matt]

I'm getting really tempted to switch so it shows the new tag window by default and SHIFT switches back to the old window.

It's probably a terrible idea!

[mattkhan]

It would be nice to get the tag window to redraw when you change the media subtype, atm you have to close the tag window and reopen it to get it to show the right fields after such a change.

[Matt]

It would be nice to get the tag window to redraw when you change the media subtype, atm you have to close the tag window and reopen it to get it to show the right fields after such a change.

You mean you make a change that changes what profile it should load?  Picking a different file and coming back should reset it, but it probably doesn't reload otherwise.

[Awesome Donkey]

It would be nice to get the tag window to redraw

Actually, it'd be nice if the new tag window redrew/reloaded after changing skins. If you go from a light skin to a dark skin or vice versa with the new tag window open the font color used sometimes appears as the previous skin's value (e.g. either a light or dark color which makes the new tag window fonts appear with the wrong color) until you close the new tag window and reopen it. I noticed this when I was updating all the skins with new tag window support, and thought I was making mistakes with the skin's font color values.

[mattkhan]

You mean you make a change that changes what profile it should load?  Picking a different file and coming back should reset it, but it probably doesn't reload otherwise.

yes that one, it would be nice if it redrew when that subtype value changes

[Matt]

Actually, it'd be nice if the new tag window redrew/reloaded after changing skins.

I've just flipped between a bunch of skins and the new tag window just updated beautifully.

I'm not sure what might be different?

[Awesome Donkey]

It's very simple to reproduce. Use the Modern Cards: White Edition skin, then open the new tag window. Switch to Black on Black from Modern Cards: White Edition and the new tag window font color looks like this;



It's using the wrong font color (too dark!). So close the new tag window and reopen it (still using Black on Black) and the new tag window appears like this;



This is correct and how the font color should look.


Second example. Switch from Black on Black to Modern Cards: White Edition with the new tag window open, after the switch the new tag window font color appears like this;



Yikes! This is wrong again (font color is too light!). Close the new tag window and reopen it, now the font color in the new tag window looks like this;



And this is correct.

[Matt]

It's very simple to reproduce. Use the Modern Cards: White Edition skin, then open the new tag window. Switch to Black on Black from Modern Cards: White Edition and the new tag window font color looks like this;

Boy, I can't reproduce.  I switch and it's just perfect.

Interesting!