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[jleerigby]

If you press enter after typing some search text MC plays all the tracks that match the search criteria thereby clearing any other tracks that may have been in the playing now list.  This is very annoying if you have spent some time adding tracks to playing now ready to play.  I set it up in Options to Add to Playing Now on double click rather than Play so as not to destroy the current Playing Now list but there is no way to stop this behaviour of the search bar (other than by remembering not to hit enter).    I've just realised that this also happens if you press enter after selecting a View Scheme or Group.

There must be someone else out there who has been annoyed by this.  Can it please be changed.

When pressing enter I would prefer it to simply expand the tree, or in the case of the search bar, to do nothing.  If it really must play the files, at the very least it should behave in the same way as a double click (i.e. in accordance with the setting in General Options).

[knickelfarz]

My vote for that - I also can not get used to keep away my fingers from the enter key...  

[LonWar]

I second that nomination.... Do we hear a third?

[nila]

U heard a third,
do we have a fourth?

Enter on the search bar should mimic 'double click' behaviour in my opinion

[drosoph]

U've got a fourth .. I dont like the ENTER functionality from the search bar .. It is VERY confusing for new users (Friends commonly hit enter overwriting the playing now list) ... I even do it on occasion!

[lee269]

Im gonna take the fifth.

Even though Im aware of it, Ive lost count of the times reflex has made me press return. And Ive never even thought to test whether undo would work at that point.

[Marty3d]

sixth here!
I don't know how many times I accidentally done this one... almost like it keeps me from searching nowadays

[phelt]

Dunno what number we'll be at when this posts, so ++ from me  

[Deivit]

You can count me in.

This behaviour was precisely the origin of my first frustrations back when using MJ8... hitting enter in a search would result in a mess if you had carefully selected your playing now.

I have finally become accustomed to this behaviour and now I always refrain from pressing enter, but I will second a change in this feature.

------
Listening to: 'Texas and Norma Jean' from 'Tight Rope' by 'Brooks & Dunn' on Media Center 9.0

[nameless]

I don't normally go along with the groupthink around here, but I'll "me too" this issue, or "me 10", or whatever number we're up to.

There have been a few times that I've been bitten by mistakenly hitting Enter while in the search box, and it is extremely annoying and disconcerting indeed.

[JaWe]

10th

[jleerigby]

Enter on the search bar should mimic 'double click' behaviour in my opinion

Thanks for your support Nila.  I have to say though that my first preference for pressing enter in search bar is still to do nothing.  I find it very unlikely that anyone entering text in the search bar would want all matching items to be put straight in the playlist (or whatever the user option says).  It seems that most people voting in this post are saying that they press enter accidentally - before even reviewing the results of the search.

For the record thats 11 votes for and none against.  Any comments admin?

[dragyn]

I would rather see it off as default. I always make that mistake too.

When using large libraries, this search process is so slow. That's because as you type, it searches automatically after every few letters. I could be sitting here for 2mins before it does what I want.

I would like to see it as an option.

a) have it as it is now
b) have it off but don't let it auto-search until the enter key is pressed.

This would save a lot of time and not mess up anyone's playlists.

[LisaRCT]

yup
me too
been there done that, still do  

[Matt]

I'll be the lone wolf -- I love Ctrl+F -> type some stuff -> [Enter] to get my tunes rolling.  Use it countless times a day.

[JimH]

Me, too.

You're outnumbered.

[nameless]

Me, too.

You're outnumbered.

The Group is never wrong!  

[Doof]

Although I have been caught by this same thing a few times, I could honestly go either way. It wouldn't bother me if it stayed the same, and it wouldn't bother me if it changed.

Which makes this whole post completely pointless.

[rocketsauce]

I didn't even know that you could search that way. ? It's not a feature I would probably use very often, though. I'm more inclined to just build smartlists or view schemes for everything.

So, I guess another vote for "it doesn't matter to me".

[jleerigby]

Although I have been caught by this same thing a few times, I could honestly go either way. It wouldn't bother me if it stayed the same, and it wouldn't bother me if it changed.

Which makes this whole post completely pointless.

So if it doesn't matter to Doof then the whole post is completely pointless!  Interesting notion.  Perhaps in that case the whole board is completely pointless and we should just have an 'Ask Doof if it's OK by him' board instead!

MC is the best software I have ever used.  It beats all other programs hands down for usability and features.  I just think that this is one of the few features that doesn't make sense to most users and it's one of the few things that can't be customised.  Sure, Matt and Jim use it in that way, but they know the system inside out and understand exactly how it behaves.  To most people, and especially new users like me, this particular feature is very annoying.  You can spend ages building up a list of tracks to play, then search for one more and with an errant press of the enter key - bye bye - there goes your list.

I'd like to think that it isn't "pointless" for new users to provide constructive feedback.

[Marty3d]

An obtrusive tooltip that says "Don't hit enter after typing here" would make everybody happy, wouldn't it? The best would be if it covers the search field so you can't see what you're searching for

Nah, just kidding! I guess I can learn not to hit Enter after a search... but I still believe in standards...

Hey! Why not add a tiny button, "Go", next to search box, replacing the current Enter behaviour?

[rocketsauce]

So if it doesn't matter to Doof then the whole post is completely pointless!  Interesting notion.  Perhaps in that case the whole board is completely pointless and we should just have an 'Ask Doof if it's OK by him' board instead!

I got the impression that Doof was only referring to his own post, not the entire thread.

Rob

[jleerigby]

I got the impression that Doof was only referring to his own post, not the entire thread.

Rob

That's not how I read it rocketsauce but having re-read it I can see what you mean.  Thanks for pointing this out and sorry Doof.  I've calmed down now but still think the feature should be changed.

[nila]

Here's my opinion:

MORE OPTIONS!!


MC has grown a LOT since v8 yet we still have more or less the same set of options that v8 had with a few exceptions.

I know you guys didn't want to add more options but we've a LOT of discussions about if A should do/behave  in this way or that way.


Take this as an example - should enter play them or do nothing, personally I'd like to be able to set the search to not execute till I hit enter as right now it's toooo jumpy and wierd typing in a search - it's trying to dynamically update the library as I'm typing which is resulting in me barely being able to type - there's a huge lagg.

We also had the BIG discussion about should selecting a node in the tree select none or all files.

These types of things are personal preferance and there are a lot more types of issues like this in v9 where the way MC acts is down to personal preferance a LOT.


I REALLY think it's time to just say 'ok, we have to do it' and just add a whole bunch more options to the options screen.

Right click menu - number of 'sticky' items in it - this needs to be taken out the registry and put into the options menu.
Which toolbar items have text - this needs to be taken out of the registry and put into options (well the reg hack itself isn't working right now either).

And several more things - there is no 'right' / 'wrong' answer - it's just about how people want MC to behave.

Give us one more screen in the options panel for: 'MC behavior' - and put this as the first item in it

[Doof]

Yeah, sorry for the confusion.

Thread = this entire topic.
Post = a singular contribution to the thread.

So when I say "this post is completely useless" it's analgous to those people who call up those phone polls and pay $3.95 a minute to vote "I don't know".

[Doof]

I'm going to try and say this as delicately as possible to try and avoid hurting anybody's feelings.

Nila> You've used King Sparta's plugins. They're loaded with options. Every little conceivable thing that could possibly be an option is an option in his plugins.

For some people, that's a good thing. It offers a lot of control. For others, it can be really intimidating. I work in IT and even I feel a little overwhelmed at times when I delve into the options screens on King's plugins. You yourself said that interface was a little overwhelming.

So would you really like to see MC like that? If King can add that many options to just a plugin, imagine how many thousand's of options you could introduce into MC. This is basically what you're asking for. For every little feature where some people disagree with others about how it should behave you (and others) shout "Make it an option!" Sure it may make sense in a few places, but by the time you add up all the "Make it an option!" requests, you've got a huge mess on your hands. Imagine the support nightmare and the bugginess/bloat possibilities. You think the current builds are long download? Wait until every feature has 2 or 3 IF THEN ELSE statements to determine how it should behave.

Instead, JRiver has wisely chosen to settle on a certain design and stick to it. The users get a lot of say in how things are done in MC, but at some point they have to learn that they have to conform to the software. There's just no way that a piece of software can behave in the precise manner that everybody wants. They can only go with the majority (or in some cases just do what they want - it is their software after all) vote.

[LonWar]

How about a advanced options menu.....That would keep the new peple out and the more experienced users can customize anything

[nila]

I dont want EVERYTHING added as an option,

just key important things that effect usability a lot.

Zoom player is a perfect example - it has a lot of options and u can basically make it behave exactly the way you want. When we were talking about the best players here a while ago - nearly everyone put Zoom up there as the best because of it's number of options.

I'm not saying through everything in randomly, making options not confusing means grouping them and explaining them clearly. The way it's done now with each group given an icon and associated that way works great. I'm just saying make one more group for 'MC Behavior' - those few if's and else's for something like: selected.files = none; selected.files = all
type thing isn't going to make it that much bigger.

And king's plugins can be overwhelming, but it also means we get to fully control whats happening with the plugin.

An 'advanced' set of options to keep these things away from beginners makes it more seperated

[jleerigby]

Doof, I agree with your delicately put response, and thanks for pointing out the difference between a thread and a post.  

In this case I don't think that a user option is appropriate.  I'm convinced that the current behaviour is not user-friendly and most if not all users who use the search bar will have made the mistake of pressing enter and unknowingly wiping the playing now list at least once.  You admitted it yourself as have many others.  Those that have no preference one way or the other (i.e. the minority according to the responses here) are either 1) not using the search bar or 2) used to it's ugly behaviour so no longer get caught out.

At the moment we have a load of users saying change it - it's a pain, 2 users saying it's OK as it is (they are from the company and don't buy the software so their view should not be as important as the view of their customers), and a minority of others who say they aren't bothered.  

Please listen to the majority and change MC so the enter key (in search bar or on tree) does not replace the contents of playing now.

[Cmagic]

Man !

I'm with Matt on this one. I like typing some stuff to clearly identify one song I like (e.g. "stones carol") or even an album (e.g. "bowie aladdin") and hit [ENTER] to let the party begin.
Someday I even play all songs with "blue" or some other day all songs with "red"

Think I'd miss this  

C.

[LonWar]

Doof, I agree with your delicately put response, and thanks for pointing out the difference between a thread and a post.  

In this case I don’t think that a user option is appropriate.  I’m convinced that the current behaviour is not user-friendly and most if not all users who use the search bar will have made the mistake of pressing enter and unknowingly wiping the playing now list at least once.  You admitted it yourself as have many others.  Those that have no preference one way or the other (i.e. the minority according to the responses here) are either 1) not using the search bar or 2) used to it’s ugly behaviour so no longer get caught out.

At the moment we have a load of users saying change it - it’s a pain, 2 users saying it’s OK as it is (they are from the company and don’t buy the software so their view should not be as important as the view of their customers), and a minority of others who say they aren’t bothered.  

Please listen to the majority and change MC so the enter key (in search bar or on tree) does not replace the contents of playing now.

For 1 reaon or another some people will use some features for things that you may not. I think to remove those things is not a good idea, However I would be open to the option idea....

[JimH]

The users get a lot of say in how things are done in MC, but at some point they have to learn that they have to conform to the software.

Bingo.  Well said.  

On this specific question, we like it the way it is, so I hope people will be able to adapt.

We're fighting hard to make the program and interface simpler and easier for a new user to understand, so we are trying not to add new options unless they are extremely important.

The advice we get here is often from people who work in IT and they are generally more tolerant of complexity than our average customer.  So we may not do things that even a majority of users here want.

I hope you'll understand and thanks for the feedback.

[drosoph]

I still think that you should take into account the growing list of users requesting that the ENTER function be "moved: (by a Go Button, an "Enter" button , or even a "PLAY" button to the right of the search pane would be nice )

I just havent seen a single new user on my system be able to search for something without playing it ... and then ask what happened when they Jump to Playing Now

[jleerigby]

I don't really see your point there Jim.  I'm not suggesting adding more complexity or an new option - just to make a sensible change that will satisfy almost everyone.  I'm sure that the people here who are asking for change are not all I.T. people.  

For those that want to play all of the search results they can simply do a Control+A after the search to select all tracks in view and then hit enter.  That would surely do whatever the existing option says for double click behaviour.

To leave it as it is like saying to the rest of us - just get used to the fact that you could easily lose a playing now list that's taken hours to compile and accept it.  We have someone in our company who justifies poor features by saying they'll only do it once.  I know you are not saying that but you don't seem to be empathising as to the impact this feature has on many users.  I'll certainly not do it again but I feel sorry for any other MC users that do.

A typical example is at a party when friends each add what they want to the playing now list - then some  **** head comes along and does a search for Metallica (to quote a post from Doof) and the party suddenly realises that we are listening to all Metallica tracks, everyone else's requests got lost and the Metallica fan gets beaten up.  Ok so he got what he deserved for bad taste in music but the other party goers didn't get what they deserved!

That's my last word on the subject but if any of the other MC users that I'm fighting for want to add their support that would be welcome.

[Doof]

Nila... these are a list of options that you (only you) have requested in the last couple of months. I basically gave up compiling it due to sheer boredom. Some of these options made it into MC. Some are for features that don't actually exist, but if they did, you've asked for options to go along with them. Keep in mind that these are just from you and only from the last few months. But I think you can start to get the idea of what your Advanced Options screen could look like.

• What should Enter do in the Search box.
  
• What should selecting no files in a node do.
  
• How many sticky menu items in the right click menu.
  
• Which toolbar buttons have text.
  
• Should the file properties box toolbar autohide.
  
• What should the exact order be for ripping and encoding.
  
• How should Quick Tag in relation to browsing.
  
• Should Quick Tag also show all data previously used for a field.
  
• What should the delimiter be when exporting playlists.
  
• Should MC prompt the user before wiping the burn playlist.
  
• Should MC automatically save the burn CD playlist.
  
• Should the panes autosize.
  
• How should MC display dates.
  
• What should MC use for keyboard accelerators.
  
• What rules should MC use when locating cover art.
  
• How should cover art be saved.
  
• Should view schemes be browsable through panes or the tree or both.
  
• Per view scheme.
  
• Should slideshow be in black and white or in color.
  
• Should MC populate drop down lists with all fields from all files or just those selected.
  
• How should MC export photo albums to HTML.
  
• How should MC resize images before uploading them to a web server.
  
• At what point in a track should MC's (nonexistant) intro mode start playing that track.
  
• How long should MC's (nonexistant) intro mode play a track.
  
• Where should MC put the File Properties box.
  
• Should the selection change when the currently playing song changes.
  
• How should MC's (nonexistant) album rating rate - mean or mode average.
  
• What text should MC display as thumbnail text.
  
• How should Hairstyle's (nonexistant) search mode allow text entry.
  
• How should Hairstyle's display be laid out.
  
• A per album\track method of determining how files are added to playing now in Hairstyle.
  
• Should MC use autocomplete when editting tags.
  
• Should Hairstyle have a Playing Now button displayed on all screens or not.
  
• Should MC remember what view filter you had set from session to session.
  
• Which items (and in what order) should be displayed on the right click menu.
  
• Should the XML export feature use Field = Artist or just Artist.
  
• Which fields should the XML export feature export.
  
• Should Hairstyle display thumbnails or just a list of files.
  
• What graphic should MC use to display ratings.
  
• Should MC create an m3u file when ripping a CD.
  
• What naming convention should MC use when creating that .m3u file.
  
• How far into a song should MC play before marking it as played.
  
• Should MC prompt before changing a large number of files.
  
• What constitutes a large a number of files.
  
• Should an individual menu item never stick to the right click menu.
  
• Which words should be or shouldn't be capitalized in the Title Case option in the Clean File Properties tool.
  
• Should the Burn CD button jump to the CD Burner window or not.
  

[Cmagic]

phew !!

That would certainly make quite a big advanced option dialog !!
Then why don't we add an option so that the option dialog is optional ?  

[Streaker]

I'll be the lone wolf -- I love Ctrl+F -> type some stuff -> [Enter] to get my tunes rolling.  Use it countless times a day.

I agree that this rapid search-and-play capability is cool and one that I'll now start using myself.  However, the "accidental replacement" problem is indeed nasty, especially in the Metallica song party scenario described above.

To accomodate both,  how about making the search-and-play work with  Shift-Enter or Ctrl-Enter.  That way the accidental Enter goes away, the search-and-play works just as quickly,  and there was no need for any options to set to make it all happen.

The only downside is that the search-and-play capability becomes a bit more obscure, but you could easily add an explanation for it to a How do I.. help page, or a Tips and Tricks help page, or to a keyboard shortcut help page..

Disclaimer: I am an IT person  

[knickelfarz]

To accomodate both,  how about making the search-and-play work with  Shift-Enter or Ctrl-Enter.  That way the accidental Enter goes away, the search-and-play works just as quickly,  and there was no need for any options to set to make it all happen.

I think this is really a welcome proposal! Great! Maybe this thread will have a happy end  

[phelt]

Heh, it's funny how seemingly low-impact features or suggestions lead to heated threads.

A little more thought about the Enter button: MC has an advantage in its near-real time sorting of search strings when compared to nearly every other app that I can think of. Google or the search engine of your choice, Windows Explorer or the file manager of your choice, Mozilla or the browser of your choice, etc. So a lot of users get used to the rote operation of 'type string, punch Enter'. While I'm impressed that MC can run its sorts so quickly, it's one app out of hundreds that are used more frequently by many users. I'm for breaking usage paradigms if there is a significant advantage, but in this case, for me, the significance lies in the potentially negative consequences of the current behaviour.

I don't think a "Go" button is a good solution for this issue - lots of apps have "Go" or "Find" buttons and I still hit the enter key. I expect to be able to do this when I see those buttons. So that would be trading one non-standard behaviour for another.

I will go along with Streaker's suggestion as a good idea. This plays to expected behaviour - when I click Enter on a file, field or application I expect an action to be performed that is appropriate to the object that I interacted with. If I perform a special operation such as a keystroke combination, I expect a special action to be taken. But by default I expect text entry fields to search and/or select.

[rocketsauce]

I'm going to try and say this as delicately as possible to try and avoid hurting anybody's feelings.

Nila> You've used King Sparta's plugins. They're loaded with options. Every little conceivable thing that could possibly be an option is an option in his plugins.

For some people, that's a good thing. It offers a lot of control. For others, it can be really intimidating. I work in IT and even I feel a little overwhelmed at times when I delve into the options screens on King's plugins. You yourself said that interface was a little overwhelming.

So would you really like to see MC like that? If King can add that many options to just a plugin, imagine how many thousand's of options you could introduce into MC. This is basically what you're asking for. For every little feature where some people disagree with others about how it should behave you (and others) shout "Make it an option!" Sure it may make sense in a few places, but by the time you add up all the "Make it an option!" requests, you've got a huge mess on your hands. Imagine the support nightmare and the bugginess/bloat possibilities. You think the current builds are long download? Wait until every feature has 2 or 3 IF THEN ELSE statements to determine how it should behave.

Instead, JRiver has wisely chosen to settle on a certain design and stick to it. The users get a lot of say in how things are done in MC, but at some point they have to learn that they have to conform to the software. There's just no way that a piece of software can behave in the precise manner that everybody wants. They can only go with the majority (or in some cases just do what they want - it is their software after all) vote.

I'm with Doof on this line of thinking. I don't participate in most of the "feature request" threads, but I do read them (I'm unemployed, what else do I have to do?). It seems to me that because J River sometimes incorporates user changes/feature requests that it has become expected, especially by the 10 or 15 or 20 (out of all the MJ/MC users) who want said change/feature. When J River says, "No. Sorry. We like it the way it is.", people keep arguing about it. The fact is that no piece of software will ever do everything the way one user or small group of users wants and J River is under no obligation to incorporate a change/feature (even though they've done it in the past) just because a small group of users on this forum "vote" for it. Sometime you have to adapt to the way the software works.

Anyway, that's my $0.02 and I'll stop horning in on this topic since the outcome, one way or the other, really doesn't matter to me.

Rob

Listening to: 'You Can't Always Get What You Want' from 'Let It Bleed' by 'The Rolling Stones' on Media Center 9.0

[Doc_Holiday]

I have to agree with this thread.  I don't like the fact that when you type enter it take the song and makes it play.  


I also have Media Center hooked up to my Home Stereo and have on display durning parties.  Everybody loves the fact that they can play DJ.  But, as an earlier poster said I hate it when they press enter and there selection starts to play right away.

My vote is to shut this function off or make it ctrl+enter, or something like that.

[lee269]

Im not an IT person, I respect the JRiver view, but I think phelt rationalised it well and Streaker has expressed it perfectly.

[Doof]

How about just change it's function to either Add to Playing Now (play now)?

Basically those that like it to automatically play the selection get to keep that, and those that don't won't lose Playing Now when they accidentally hit Enter. They'll just wind up changing the currently playing song.

[Doof]

The problem I have with using Ctrl or Shift Enter is that it pretty much breaks the paradigm for the rest of the app, where hitting Enter starts playing. You'd have this one place where it didn't work the same.

[jleerigby]

The problem I have with using Ctrl or Shift Enter is that it pretty much breaks the paradigm for the rest of the app, where hitting Enter starts playing. You'd have this one place where it didn't work the same.

Hitting enter only starts playing if that's the setting you have for double click behaviour.  Hitting enter for me does not butcher my playing now list (unless I use the soddin search bar) - it just adds to playing now.

[nameless]

Nila... these are a list of options that you (only you) have requested in the last couple of months. I basically gave up compiling it due to sheer boredom. Some of these options made it into MC. Some are for features that don't actually exist, but if they did, you've asked for options to go along with them. Keep in mind that these are just from you and only from the last few months. But I think you can start to get the idea of what your Advanced Options screen could look like.

• What should Enter do in the Search box.
  
• What should selecting no files in a node do.
  [HUGE SNIP]
  

Hi Matt!
/me gives a knowing grin

[Streaker]

The problem I have with using Ctrl or Shift Enter is that it pretty much breaks the paradigm for the rest of the app, where hitting Enter starts playing. You'd have this one place where it didn't work the same.

Then it comes down to which paradigm does the app want to break, the MC-specific Enter paradigm, or the de facto UI search box standard?

I'm gussing that for many users (especially new/party users), they use the mouse for nearly everything, and only use the keyboard in the search bar.  In the current implementation, these users gain nothing from the Enter paradigm and suffer from the lack of UI search box standard with accidental Enters (Granted, such users might generally click a 'go' button in other search interfaces rather than hit Enter, but in MC no such button exists, and it's not always obvious that the search-as-you-type has taken effect, so they would likely hit enter as a backup.)

[Doof]

Hi Matt!
/me gives a knowing grin

hmmmm.....

[lise]

On this specific question, we like it the way it is, so I hope people will be able to adapt.

Jim,

On this one, I wish you would reconsider, especially given that pretty much only you and Matt like this feature, and others HATE it with a passion or could care less either way.  There's nothing I could add that hasn't already been said, other than I know of at least 2 people who refuse to use Media Jukebox/Media Center for this exact reason.  They just can't figure out how stuff they haven't sent to Playing Now starts playing.  One of those people is my partner, and it's really really annoying, because we spend hours playing a game where we take turns playing the next song (in the hopes of creating a nifty playlist) and we both end up swearing at least 10 times/night, he because his carefully selected song didn't play after mine, and me because the playlist is gone!

On this issue, I just don't think the advantage that you see in this 'feature'  is worth the cost of cutting up playlists.  I can't really imagine anyone shouting because enter DIDN'T play their search results...

[Matt]

This thread scares me.

I know of at least 2 people who refuse to use Media Jukebox/Media Center for this exact reason

Are they that fickle with other stuff?  "Oh my god -- you're wearing green socks!  Get out of my house now!"

And not to change the subject, but I just got a new puppy.  Gotta love puppies.  Don't suppose anyone else has a dog (or anything else) they could show / talk about now.