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[mattkhan]

AIUI JRSS downmixing uses all channels to produce the downmixed output as per Matt's post here -> https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,79282.msg538644.html#msg538644

However using convert format as per mojave's guide (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1333462-new-master-list-bass-movies-frequency-charts.html#post23468771) to downmix to mono now appears to produce output that is missing the LFE channel. To debug, I created a multichannel wav file that contains a sine wave on each channel (10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45) then down mixed that using convert format. The resulting output looks like the attached, you can see 25Hz is missing, i.e. channel 4 aka no LFE in the output.

Has something changed in how jrss downmixing works? or is this just broken? or is there some other config to apply to include LFE in the output?

FWIW I put the source wav file at https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxdmSMpV-t3GSTNCTlBiRjJFSEk/view?usp=sharing

[Hendrik]

Are you sure you didn't set the Output Format DSP to silence the LFE? Because it definitely works for me, the 4th channel is even 10dB amplified like it ought to be.

[mattkhan]

which setting do you mean?

as far as I can see, my config is as per that link, specifically

http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2122237/c/cf/cfebc70f_AudioConversionOptions.jpeg
http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2122237/b/b1/b1dd4e7f_ParametricEqualizer.jpeg

so mono output with jrss mixing and a single PEQ to adjust level

[Hendrik]

There is only so many settings that affect the LFE/Subwoofer on the output format DSP page, basically one. That one. 
The screenshots are old, the setting is relatively new (its there, but greyed out for downmixing in the screenshots).

[mattkhan]

this is what I have

note the subclarity checkbox appears to be disabled (though it's not obvious with this skin)

[Hendrik]

Still works for me, as long as the Dropdown isn't set to Silence


Log scale makes the thing a bit uneven, but all the channels are there.

[mojave]

I also just tested and it works for me. I converted the intro to Edge of Tomorrow to a multi-channel wav and muted all channels except the LFE. I then took the file that only had content in the LFE channel and converted to mono. The LFE channel was downmixed properly.

[mattkhan]

tried it on a different machine, works fine

any idea how I fix this particular instance of MC?

[mojave]

tried it on a different machine, works fine

any idea how I fix this particular instance of MC?

Copy your library from the other machine and see if it now works. This ensures you have the same settings.

It might fix it to reinstall an older version and then update to the latest again. Older versions are in C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 23\Install

[mattkhan]

I restored the backup to another machine, the problem followed it so it's certainly in the library.

I dug into the settings and found the zone used for the convert format & compared the values between a good library and a bad one. The UI screen is identical on both systems btw.

the bad one looks like this

Code: [Select]

[Zones\\1001\\Audio Settings]
Allow Custom Output Format=i:"1"
Last Change Time=i:"1497556851"
Output Channels=i:"1"
Output Encoding=i:"0"
Output Padding Channels=i:"0"
Output Pseudo Surround Detection=i:"1"
Output Sample Rate Settings="(1:3)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)"
Output Surround Mode=i:"1"
Output Surround Phantom Center=i:"0"
Output Surround Subwoofer Cutoff=i:"-1"
Output Surround Subwoofer Cutoff Downmix=i:"0"
Output Surround Subwoofer Impact Filter=i:"1"
Output Surround Two Point One Mixing=i:"0"

the good one like this

Code: [Select]

[Zones\\1001\\Audio Settings]
Allow Custom Output Format=i:"1"
Last Change Time=i:"1497532767"
Output Channels=i:"1"
Output Encoding=i:"0"
Output Padding Channels=i:"0"
Output Pseudo Surround Detection=i:"0"
Output Sample Rate Settings="(1:3)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)"
Output Surround Mode=i:"1"
Output Surround Phantom Center=i:"0"
Output Surround Subwoofer Cutoff=i:"60"
Output Surround Subwoofer Cutoff Downmix=i:"0"
Output Surround Subwoofer Impact Filter=i:"1"
Output Surround Two Point One Mixing=i:"0"

the differences are in

Output Pseudo Surround Detection
Output Surround Subwoofer Cutoff

Can I hack the good values into a backup and restore that hacked backup to fix? I suppose that should work.

[mattkhan]

manually editing the relevant section of the ini file in the backup and then restoring that copy does seem to fix the problem.

It guess this must be a bug in the way the settings are loaded from a backup.

[Hendrik]

I found the bug in the logic. We have separate settings for sub downmix and sub passthrough/upmix, and it used the wrong one in one place, resulting in the sub to be lost if for some reason you had the passthrough/upmix setting to silence the subwoofer (like it appears you had, Output Surround Subwoofer Cutoff was -1)

[mattkhan]

Glad you found it.

the UI says "downmix all frequencies" for that config, is that considered to mean "silence the subwoofer"?

[Hendrik]

No, that means what it says. But thats not the setting that was affecting the process, hence the bug. If you switch the output channel layout to one that includes a LFE channel, it'll swap the settings around and show you the other LFE/Sub setting, that one was set to silence on your one box. But obviously it should not affect downmixing, its not even shown there.

[mattkhan]

No, that means what it says. But thats not the setting that was affecting the process, hence the bug. If you switch the output channel layout to one that includes a LFE channel, it'll swap the settings around and show you the other LFE/Sub setting, that one was set to silence on your one box. But obviously it should not affect downmixing, its not even shown there.

ah ok I'm with you now.

As an aside, I notice the PEQ settings are stored in a text format. It isn't a super user friendly format but it's better than nothing, any chance of a load button so you could just load a wodge of filters into the form in one go?

[mwillems]

Hendrik, it looks like there have been changes in these options since last I set them; once upon a time setting to subwoofer to silent passed through an existing LFE track in the source material, but didn't use the downmix to generate an LFE track in source material that didn't have one. 

Do I understand this thread to be saying that the "Silent" option will now discard an existing LFE track in the source material?  If so, what's the correct setting if you want to pass through any LFE track in the source, but not create any LFE content as part of the downmix? 

As a concrete example, I have a 2.1 system and I have no interest in creating a sub channel for stereo sources (my speakers are full range), but i do want the sub to handle the LFE track from any 5.1 or 7.1 material (but don't want to redirect anything from the main channels).  The recommended way to achieve that used to be to set the subwoofer to silent; is there a new way to do that?

[Hendrik]

"Silent" doesn't discard the subwoofer if both input and output have a sub. It only affects cases where the sub is being touched anyway, ie. in downmix or upmix.

[mwillems]

"Silent" doesn't discard the subwoofer if both input and output have a sub. It only affects cases where the sub is being touched anyway, ie. in downmix or upmix.

Got it.  Thanks for the clarification!

[mattkhan]

I tested 23.0.7, seems to work fine. Thanks for the quick fix.