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[TP1964]

So I have the Denon AVR-X3200W. Using it with JRiver MC 22. HTPC via HDMI to receiver. WASAPI HDMI driver.

When trying to playback DSD ISO files, as long as I transcode down, it seems to work fine (appears to be running 352.2kHz.) However, I've tried pretty much every permutation of settings and can't seem to get it to play at the 2.8Mhz it should be. It's just hissing.

Hoping I've just missed something. Manual for the receiver says that HDMI can be used to receive 2.8Mhz 5.1 DSD files. I've seen other posts (albeit older) that say HDMI on a PC can't transmit the DSD, so perhaps that's it.)And interestingly, in some combinations, the file plays, I just don't get sound. Other combinations it doesn't play at all. Other combinations it says it can play it and asks to change the transcoding to make it play.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I just about have this set up to perfection - and the transcoding sounds really good. But it SHOULD be able to play the file as is - and I'm just confused as to why it can't. If the answer is that it can't be done with the built-in HDMI, any advice as to what combination of DAC or device needed to make it play as it should would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance. Not sure what information you might need, so let me know and I can post up whatever you need to help.

[RD James]

There are no video cards for PCs which support bitstreaming DSD over HDMI.
It may be possible to play back native DSD if your receiver can also operate as a USB DAC, or stream DSD via DLNA over a network.
 
I would recommend converting it to high sample rate PCM even if it was possible to bitstream DSD over HDMI from a PC anyway.
The only time it may be beneficial to bitstream DSD is if you are using a true 1-bit native DAC for playback. Virtually everything is multi-bit these days.

[mojave]

You can't use HDMI via a graphics card to bitstream DSD. You can only bitstream DSD from an SACD player like one of the OPPO models.

You can stream DSD to the Denon using DLNA over the network. It is just as easy and is lossless.

[mojave]

I agree with RD James that even though you can stream it via DLNA, converting it to high sample rate PCM is just fine.

[TP1964]

Thanks guys, I figured HDMI on the PC was the issue - so, if I go back to trying to do this via DLNA (I played with it briefly when I first set up MC on the PC) any hints as to the best settings. Also, what's the maximum bit depth I should expect? I assume it's not the 2.8Mhz, since it will have to convert it to something multi-bit right?

[mojave]

You don't have to convert DSD when streaming it via DLNA. The Denon should accept the native DSD just fine and decode it.

I recommend using Whitebear's Analyzer for the best settings for JRiver's DLNA.

http://www.whitebear.ch/dmra

[TP1964]

Fantastic. Wasn't aware of this tool, Mojave - thanks for the tip. Much appreciated!

[blgentry]

The only time it may be beneficial to bitstream DSD is if you are using a true 1-bit native DAC for playback. Virtually everything is multi-bit these days.

I understand what you are saying:  A "real" DSD DAC will decode the DSD stream natively and play it.  While a regular PCM DAC will do some sort of DSD to PCM (multi-bit) and then do it's normal PCM Digital to Analog Conversion.  Which makes sending DSD to a PCM based DAC a waste of time.

I'm only writing because of this:

Virtually everything is multi-bit these days.

This is unintentionally misleading.  99%+ of DACs on the market today are not multi-bit.  They are delta-sigma DACs that decimate PCM samples into low bit or one bit samples and then run them through an internal "1 bit" (or low bit) DAC.  Real multi-bit DACs haven't been used commonly for many years, though you can find some on the market that are using older multi-bit chips.

...and of course Schiit Audio is producing a relatively full line of true multi-bit DACs based on Medical/Military grade DAC chips from Analog Devices and using Schiit's proprietary multi-bit digital filter.

I guess this is really a minor point in the grand scheme.  It's just that the phrase "multibit", when applied to DACs today, means something specific.  As I tried to illustrate above.

Brian.

[RD James]

This is unintentionally misleading.  99%+ of DACs on the market today are not multi-bit.  They are delta-sigma DACs that decimate PCM samples into low bit or one bit samples and then run them through an internal "1 bit" (or low bit) DAC.  Real multi-bit DACs haven't been used commonly for many years, though you can find some on the market that are using older multi-bit chips.

SDM DACs that sum the output from many 1-bit converters operating at different levels to create a stable multi-bit output are still multi-bit converters, they just achieve it through different means than R-2R ladder DACs.
"Low bit" is still multi-bit. If you combine sixty-four 1-bit DACs outputting different levels, the end result is equal to a 6-bit converter. So modern SDM DACs are not at all comparable to true 1-bit converters.
An AVR like that Denon is not going to be using a 1-bit DAC, so it is not necessary to bitstream DSD - which is the important thing. Virtually nothing uses true 1-bit DACs any more, and devices which do will make it obvious.

[blgentry]

You misunderstand my point. Probably my fault.  Just disregard the above.

Brian.

[TP1964]

Wanted to post a quick update - just in case someone else would run into this problem. After many attempts to figure out why my multi-channel DSD/SACD files weren't passing through to the system - figured out that I had a couple of DSPs loaded that apparently weren't passing through the info (in may case, they were specifically Marvel GEQ and Toned_x64) - literally the second I shut them off, everything worked as it should. So if you are running into an issue with this, check your DSPs - start with nothing except Output Formatting if necessary and add back one at a time. The built-in EQ and Room Correction are doing what I needed for the most part - so it's all good. Thanks again to the couple of folks who helped!