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Author Topic: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver  (Read 51167 times)

Phil_C

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How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« on: November 17, 2017, 08:32:44 pm »

I have Tidal premium music service and JRiver 23.0.81 (current stable version) on my Windows 10 PC.  PC is connected to the Internet via a router. I use JRemote app on iPad to run JRiver remotely. 

How can I play Tidal through JRiver?  Didn't see instructions in Tidal help screens, JRiver Wiki or Interact Forum.  I need guidance on how to set this up.
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JimH

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver 23.0.81?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2017, 07:36:29 am »

You can use JRiver as a Windows driver so that Tidal (or any streaming service) can play to JRiver.  Here's how:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WDM_Driver
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Phil_C

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2017, 03:23:18 pm »

Thanks for the answer.  One followup:  If I install and use WDM to play Tidal thru JRiver into my stereo's DAC, will WDM replace my current WASAPI driver, which plays my music library in JRiver to DAC?  Or will Win 10 have two sound interfaces,  WDM and WASAPI, and I select one or the other in Win 10 to play Tidal or my music library?
 
WASAPI is currently selected in JRiver at Tools>Options>Audio>Berkeley Alpha USB Interface Audio (WASAPI).  The Berkeley audio hardware device came with the WASAPI driver from the manufacturer and works best with it. 

I want to play Tidal through JRiver, but not if I lose use of the WASAPI driver (or have to reinstall WASAPI occasionally). 
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2017, 03:53:06 pm »

You need to set the Tidal app itself to use JRiver's WDM driver as the output. That way it's piped through MC and goes out the WASAPI output you're using there.
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stanzani

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 09:40:54 am »

can I play tidal from smartphone app and redirect somehow the audio to JRiver installed on the home PC
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tyler69

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2018, 10:08:34 am »

Yes, I think so. But you'll need a third party application. If it's an iPhone, something like http://www.tuneblade.com
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iGas2

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver 23.0.81?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2018, 06:23:01 am »

You can use JRiver as a Windows driver so that Tidal (or any streaming service) can play to JRiver.  Here's how:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WDM_Driver

Thanks for link. Struggling with buffering mods, as described, to eliminate crackle/buzzdropouts etc.

Is there a workaround for this that anyone has used either within or outside MC.... recognising that Tidal doesn’t allow download from desktop app.
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stanzani

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2018, 05:35:19 am »

The WDM driver is a great idea. This allows to apply VST plugins to ANY sorce: for exmple I apply Dirac filtering to Tidal streaming.
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LeKrak

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2018, 05:21:12 pm »

Can anyone tell me if you can use the WDM driver to stream Tidal through JRiver on a network?.
I want to stream Tidal plus all my local music through JRiver to my OPPO-205 and use all the audio processing that is not available with the USB output.
I have tried the WDM but it does not seem to work with a networked output.
ROON does this very well but 500$ is a lot of money for this feature.

Thanks
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Hilton

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2018, 06:31:45 pm »

There are other ways to do this that dont involve WDM that are a bit cleaner to use while giving you remote control of Tidal playing to a MC zone. (where you would have your DAC attached)

Unfortunately there is no way to stream Tidal direct from JRiver, but you can use JRiver as an end point for Tidal playback.

If you have an Android tablet or phone, install BubbleUPnP and configure it to login to your Tidal account.  You can then select any JRiver MC zones or any other DLNA output to stream Tidal from BubbleUPnP.

If you have Chromecast Audio devices or Google Mini's around the house you can also stream Tidal to Google Chromecast groups and thereby have Tidal in complete sync to multiple devices around your house.

Using the above approach you can use BubbleUPnP when you want to push Tidal to JRiver MC zones to have full control of DSP functionality within MC. When you want to play your own library just use JRemote.

MC DSP funtionality doesnt work when pushing content to third party DLNA devices, but if the Oppo is plugged in as a DAC to a PC with MC running you can apply JRiver DSP that way for the OPPO.  If you want to do DSP in the OPPO then use the OPPO as a DLNA point as described above.

This is slightly off topic, but you can also get Google Chromecast audio compatible devices to show up as Zones in JRiver MC by configuring BubbleUPnP Server on your MC server.

Back to Tidal....  These are the options you have with Tidal without using the MC WDM driver...

Tidal to DAC (Oppo or any other DAC)

Tidal >> BubbleUPnP Android configured with Tidal as Library source >> Push to JRiver MC Zone (Oppo DAC) from within BubbleUPnP   (can use JRiver MC DSP)

Tidal to DLNA (Oppo or any other DLNA end point)

Tidal >> BubbleUPnP Android configured with Tidal as Library source >> Push to JRiver MC Zone (Oppo DLNA) from within BubbleUPnP  (can use OPPO DSP)

Tidal to Chromecast (Any Chromecast Audio (CCA) compatible device - Chromecast Audio, Google Mini, Google Home, CCA TVs and portable speakers)

Tidal >> BubbleUPnP Android configured with Tidal as Library source >> Push to JRiver MC Zone (Google Chromecast Audio or Google Mini/CCA Groups) from within BubbleUPnP  (Using Google chromecast audio compatible devices) (NO DSP available)
For this configuration you also need the BubbleUPnP Server configured on your MC library server as it performs the role of a proxy to make the Google devices appear as DLNA renderers (Players)

Local Library to DAC (Oppo or any other DAC)

Local Library >> JRemote configured with MC as Library server >> Push to JRiver MC Zone (Oppo DAC) from within JRemote   (Can use JRiver MC DSP)

Local Library to DLNA (Oppo or any other DLNA end point)

Local Library >> JRemote configured with MC as Library server >> Push to JRiver MC Zone (Oppo DLNA) from within JRemote   (Can use OPPO DSP)

Local Library to Chromecast (Any Chromecast Audio (CCA) compatible device - Chromecast Audio, Google Mini, Google Home, CCA TVs and portable speakers)

Local Library >> JRemote configured with MC as Library server >> Push to JRiver MC Zone (Google Chromecast Audio or Google Mini/CCA Groups) from within JRemote (Using Google chromecast audio compatible devices) (NO DSP available)
For this configuration you also need the BubbleUPnP Server configured on your MC library server as it performs the role of a proxy to make the Google devices appear as DLNA renderers (Players)

PS: The above approach for Tidal playback through JRiver MC will work for all the following cloud services when using BubbleUPnP on Android: (playback the following via BubbleUPnP to MC)
Tidal
Qobuz
Google Music
Google Drive
Dropbox
Box
OneDrive
Amazon Cloud Drive
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LeKrak

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2018, 12:07:10 pm »

Many thanks, this is a lot of useful information.
I use an iPad myself but tried with an Android tablet and it worked well for Tidal with my OPPO as a network output  :)
Is the sound quality the same as if it  were coming from Tidal directly to the OPPO through USB?
Is the sound being transcribed from the tablet or coming directly from Tidal and just remote controlled from the tablet?
Sorry for abusing your knowledge but I have been looking for understandable info on this for a while and you seem to be quite precise on the subject.
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Hilton

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2018, 07:29:37 pm »

Hi LeKrak

I don't know for sure but I think so.
You see Tidal HiFi is the only available option for devices that can't unfold MQA audio.  So Tidal will only allow upto 16bit 44.1k playback from devices that cant decode and unfold the MQA.

If you have an MQA capable streamer or USB DAC it would be easy enough to find out for sure, but as I dont have anything that can decode MQA I cant tell you for sure.
BubbleUPnP cant unfold the MQA and doesnt have the Master Audio option so it's limited to the 16bit 44.1k stream from Tidal and should be passing that through untouched.

What I can say is that it should sound the same regardless of whether it goes via DLNA or via USB to the Oppo because it's not being transcoded.
Bits are bits and as long as they dont get changed, for all intent purposes they should sound the same. (though you may need to allow for differences in the USB or network decoding and filters used within the Oppo)

I can also tell you that BubbleUPnP does indeed pass-through other streams from my local server without touching them - they come through as 44/16 96/24, 192/24 and DFF and DSF files just fine to my MC zone with a DAC attached.

You can enable transcoding on the tablet in BubbleUPnP, but I have it turned off as JRiver MC can decode anything I send to my DAC on the JRiver DLNA zone.

BubbleUPnP doesnt pass the stream directly off to MC like chromecast and spotify casting technologies do, you are actually receiving the Tidal stream though BubbleUPnP as a proxy and it's then forwarding to your DLNA device. BubbleUPnP sends the stream untouched as long as you have the FFmpeg audio decoding option in BubbleUPnP set to "Never Use" on the DLNA renderer device you're using. 

You can find that setting under BubbleUPnP settings> Individual UPnP/DLNA renderers settings > Select Renderer > FFmpeg audio decoding > Check the Never use check box. Here you can also set gapless control to on if your device supports it.
 
So the short version - yes you're getting the best possible sound you can get for a non-MQA capable DAC or streaming device.
(well with one small exception - If you dont have an MQA DAC, the Tidal App on PC can partially unfold the MQA stream on albums where Master Audio is available and pass upto 96/24 to your DAC directly - however most albums on Tidal are 16bit 44.1k anyway)

And your welcome, you're not abusing anything, that's why we are here to help one another! :)
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Chopsrr

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2018, 10:34:58 pm »

So without the want or need to use any DSP, is there any reason to run Tidal through JRiver if running out the USB of a dedicated laptop streamlined for JRiver?

This is what I'm working with... I have an Oppo BDP-105D. It's a great sounding unit, but the thing has a tendency to lock up half the time (always has) with Tidal. It'll play a few songs of an album, then just randomly stop. Sometimes if I hit skip, it'll move on to the next track and start playing again, only to stop again later on down the road. Sometimes, skipping won't work and I have to either power the unit down or yank the power cord. It has done this since day one.

The other PITA thing about the Oppo is that it does not support gapless playback, which royally sucks and is annoying as heck when listening to classical music or bands like Pink Floyd.

I have the Tidal app on my laptop. What you guys have described above, is there an actual link that in inserted/installed in JRiver to stream Tidal, or do you have to use JRiver to keep the signal coming from the Tidal app untouched before leaving the USB to the DAC in the Oppo?

And from what I understand from above, you can not control Tidal via the JRiver/JRemote iPad app?

Many thanks in advance for clarification on these questions.
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g--a

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2018, 09:10:33 am »

Hello,

I've got the same question but with an apple macmini,
Is there a possibility jriver tidal in this case ? and how ?

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stanzani

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2019, 01:17:02 pm »

Hi there
I connected to Tidal using Bubble UPnP but I cannot see JRiver among the DLNA renderers (I can see my Oppo 105D and Chromecast though)
I wonder why JRiver cannot act as DLNA render or, if I am doing something wrong, show me how to ebable renderership to my JRiver server

thanks much and sorry if I did not read something abouth this in the wiki or in the forum
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JimH

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2019, 01:19:38 pm »

Please read the wiki topics on Media Network and DLNA.  You need to enable Media Network.

A firewall might also be blocking access.
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stanzani

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2019, 08:23:46 am »

OK I forgot to enable DLNA renderer! thanks much for your patience ;)
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stanzani

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2019, 08:26:53 am »

Quick question: using JRiver as a renderer will enable DSP functions (VST plugins etc.)?
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stanzani

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2020, 11:44:58 am »

Here i am again: hope opening this elder topic will not hurt anybody.
BubbleUpP is really power hungry with the cellphone battery so I do not like to use it too much
Moreover let's have the following situation
1- a PC running JRiver media serving
2- a PC running JRiver client.
I can see various renderers on the client JRiver, but I have Tidal client on PC 2-
Tidal client is very limited: it cannot handle DLNA but can play only to Windows audio devices (I complained already with them and rated low their android app). How can I get rid of Tidal client? There is no WDM driver on the client renderer JRiver ...

thanks
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alexopth1512

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2023, 04:32:21 pm »

zombie thread but i guess no need to open new one. Is there any hope to have tidal connect? No need for MQA decoding, sine it can be redirected to DAC and Tidal will abandon that
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JimH

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2023, 12:04:20 am »

Not within MC, but MC can be the sound engine for tidal.  Read about the WDM Driver on our wiki.
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alexopth1512

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2023, 01:28:42 am »

Hi, doesn't fit what I need, I don't have Windows, I have Raspi 4 with Allo and MC installed on it and I want to send from my laptop through tidal-connect. I am now working with ifi-tidal-connect but doesn't support 64-bit correctly.
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JimH

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2023, 08:12:19 am »

You might also find Cloudplay interesting.
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alexopth1512

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2023, 09:19:53 am »

You might also find Cloudplay interesting.

What is that? You mean EZVIZ?
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JimH

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alexopth1512

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2023, 02:42:31 pm »

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Cloudplay

Ok, I will use it but request for tidal-connect still stands, because I have all the hires audio.

I have paid MC30, can I use Cloudplay? where do i find user & pass?
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JimH

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2023, 02:55:51 pm »

Yes, you can use it.  Register on the Cloudplay page in MC.
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alexopth1512

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2023, 07:57:55 am »

Used it, very interesting concept, I will certainly continue using it, still my tidal-connect request stands. :)

When I create a playlist, it is automatically shared to Cloudplay?
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JimH

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Re: How To Listen To Tidal Through JRiver
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2023, 10:35:58 am »

When I create a playlist, it is automatically shared to Cloudplay?
Only if you upload it.
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