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Author Topic: SACD-R disc playback  (Read 10164 times)

TillerMC

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SACD-R disc playback
« on: December 24, 2017, 09:29:10 am »

I am a new user of MC23. Its features are impressive, but I cannot find a way to play my SACD-R collection which are burned from SACD.iso files.
MC is able to play SACD.iso and CDDA discs from a DVD drive (internal or USB) via USB DAC. Is there a way to playback SACD-R discs?
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: SACD-R disc playback
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2017, 10:24:16 am »

Well, it's not possible to playback SACD discs (and likely by extension likely not possible to playback DVD-R discs burned as SACD-R discs) on a PC. SACD ISOs? Yes, it'll play those (as you already are aware of) but SACD discs, no. There's no PC CD/DVD/Blu-ray drive available that can even read a SACD disc (unless it's a hybrid disc with a PCM audio CD layer, e.g. the 2003 remaster/remix of Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon).

Here's a list of players compatible with SACD-R discs: https://github.com/sacd-ripper/sacd-ripper/wiki/A-list-of-SACD-R-compatible-players.
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I don't work for JRiver... I help keep the forums safe from Viagra and other sources of sketchy pharmaceuticals.

Windows 11 Pro 2022 Update (22H2) 64-bit | Fedora Workstation 37 64-bit | Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu 64-bit (Raspberry Pi 4 Model B 4GB)
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TillerMC

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Re: SACD-R disc playback
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2017, 11:15:38 am »

Dear Donkey,

I am sorry to say that your answer is missing the point. My experience is based on using a collection of about 2500 SACD.iso files and some 300 SACD-R discs.

1. My Windows PC can read SACD-R discs which I burned with ImgBurn from SACD.iso files and I can play the physical disks back with Foobar2000 in native DSD64 format streamed to the DSD DAC.
2. I can rip my SACD-R discs to SACD.iso with ImgBurn with no problems. (Windows + DVD drive)
3. I do have 3 Pioneer BD-players (140, 150, 450) that are playing back the SACD-R discs streaming DSD via HDMI to AVR which can convert the DSD to analog either in 2 or 5.1 channels. (No PCM involved.)

The only thing I ask wether MC23 is able to do the same as Foobar2000 can since from what I wrote above it follows that it is only a matter of software.

Regards  :)

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eddyshere

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Re: SACD-R disc playback
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2017, 01:44:17 pm »

Donít want to be lecturing but thereís no such thing as a sacd-r.
 Itís either a sacd or a dvd/cd/bluray-writable on which you save dsd files.
There is no sacd reader nor writer for PC....unfortunately.

So if your writable media
1. holds dff or dsf files jriver should be able to play it. Havenít tried it off a disc as my dsd dsfís are all on nas (ie network).
Or
2. Holds an iso file of an sacd and then i cannot say if jriver can mount and play directly as i always transfer my sacd iso rips into dsf for tagging reasons.
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TillerMC

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Re: SACD-R disc playback
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2017, 03:56:34 pm »

Before I ask again my original question I put down a few facts that are no use to challenge:

0. I do have 300+ SACD-R discs! I have burned them with ImgBurn from SACD.iso files on DVD-R discs. This type of disc is called SACD-R disc. It carries the bit perfect DSD content of an SACD disc it was ripped from without the copy protection of SACD discs. It is quite different from a (Korg type) data disc that carries DSD files. SACD-R discs or equivalently SACD.iso files must be authored from DSD files with such a program as Philips Superauthor. They can be played by a number of BD players and SACD players.
1. JRiver is able to play DSD files from any data carrier.
2. JRiver is able to play SACD.iso files.
The question is: Can JRiver play SACD-R discs?

Foobar2000, a free music player for PC can play them.
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ferday

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Re: SACD-R disc playback
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2017, 05:35:09 pm »

This is a very exotic thing, I would be surprised if many here have ever tried this

There is certainly no guide to make them work, and because they aren't real SACD's it's hard to say how JR treats them

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JimH

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Re: SACD-R disc playback
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2017, 01:20:34 am »

I have never used an SACD, but my understanding is that they must be ripped first, and this isn't easy. 

Old models of Sony Playstations had drives that could be used for ripping.  Recently Oppo may have something.

Start with the DSD topic on our wiki:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD

Read about ripping there and follow the link to Computeraudiophile.com.  There is an Oppo topic there, too.

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Awesome Donkey

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Re: SACD-R disc playback
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2017, 05:26:37 am »

SACD-R discs are created by burning SACD ISOs to DVD-Rs, which only a handful of players support playback of (apparently foobar2000 does too via its SACD plugin). I suspect this simply won't work in MC due to how discs are handled in MC and how it likely doesn't "know how" to read SACD-R discs (or to account for them). It's worth pointing out that this is the first time I've heard about burning SACD ISOs to DVD-R discs and creating a SACD-R disc which only a handful of players supports.

To the OP, the answer to your main question whether or not MC can play SACD-R discs is very likely no. It's such a niche and exotic thing, I suspect the dev team would have very little interest in supporting such things.
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I don't work for JRiver... I help keep the forums safe from Viagra and other sources of sketchy pharmaceuticals.

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JimH

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Re: SACD-R disc playback
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2017, 05:28:59 am »

Don't some of those discs also have FLAC files or similar? 
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: SACD-R disc playback
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2017, 05:33:47 am »

Don't some of those discs also have FLAC files or similar? 

Hybrid discs have a PCM layer, yes. The 2003 release of Dark Side Of The Moon is an example of this (which I own) and I think there's hybrid Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab releases too. Any PC can read the PCM layer and rip it, the SACD/DSD layer it can't (and has to be ripped via a modded PS3 or a player with modded firmware).

The thing about creating an SACD-R disc is it *could* be read back on a PC as it seems to lack the SACD copy protection (pit signal processing?) and whatever else the original SACD discs use as a DRM/copy protection. That's what the OP is asking about whether or not MC can read SACD-R discs, which is very unlikely even though apparently foobar2000 can.
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I don't work for JRiver... I help keep the forums safe from Viagra and other sources of sketchy pharmaceuticals.

Windows 11 Pro 2022 Update (22H2) 64-bit | Fedora Workstation 37 64-bit | Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu 64-bit (Raspberry Pi 4 Model B 4GB)
Topping D50s USB DAC | Edifier R2000DB Bookshelf Speakers
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: SACD-R disc playback
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2017, 05:37:28 am »

Apparently you can simply take any SACD ISO, grab a blank DVD-R, get a disc burning application like ImgBurn or Nero and burn the SACD ISO to the DVD-R discs to create a SACD-R. Once burned some players will treat the burned disc as a normal SACD disc and play it back due to a hardware/software flaw in specific players.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/557918-sacd-engineers-heres-how-make-sacd-r-home-testing-before-glass-mastering.html

But yeah, seems overly complicated compared to just playing back SACD ISOs and/or DFF/DSF files.
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I don't work for JRiver... I help keep the forums safe from Viagra and other sources of sketchy pharmaceuticals.

Windows 11 Pro 2022 Update (22H2) 64-bit | Fedora Workstation 37 64-bit | Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu 64-bit (Raspberry Pi 4 Model B 4GB)
Topping D50s USB DAC | Edifier R2000DB Bookshelf Speakers
JRiver Media Center 30 (Windows/Linux)

TillerMC

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Re: SACD-R disc playback
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2017, 09:35:27 am »

Dear Donkey, (and all)

Now that you read a bit into the topic you understand my problem. ;)
It may seem "overly complicated" but only if you have not got SACD-R discs on your shelf. They are useful if you want to play SACD(-R) in a PC-less environment and burning SACD.iso with ImgBurn to create SACD-R is not at all difficult.
Also, once you have them and a PC around, you may want to play them without buying an expensive desktop SACD player.
It may be interesting too to know that one SACD-R disc can hold 256 minutes of two channel music in DSD64 resolution. (Compressed to DST, which is lossless!)
For these reasons I have authored a number of SACD-R discs, compilations from DSD music contents of different SACD.iso's.
True, creating SACD.iso from a factory SACD disc requires special hardware, software and knowledge that I leave to the specialists.

Regards
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