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Author Topic: Problem with RAID  (Read 2443 times)

23Anonymous

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Problem with RAID
« on: June 02, 2018, 06:54:19 am »

I'm having an issue with MC24 hanging when waking my RAID, some times it will play (stutter) the intro - then hang, a couple times said "waking Drive", sometimes it starts playing but audio only - no video. After a reboot all's good.....until the drive goes to sleep (stop drives after an hour is set). Adaptec 81605ZQ with 16 WD 6tb Red Pro set as two 32tb drives.

Also, the 4K version of "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind" won't play from the title file, audio no video, Plays one file at a time fine. Only one I've had an issue with out of 40 4K disc. (files)
 
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JimH

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2018, 08:38:57 am »

I don't think there's anything MC can do about that.  Sorry.
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michael123

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2018, 11:49:11 am »

Is the RAID array local to MC?
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23Anonymous

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2018, 02:06:36 pm »

This was not an issue with MC23. I've waited to post because I wanted to see it happen several times.

I was using Power DVD13 - 17 and never had an issue with it waking the raid. Much happier with MC for more reasons then I have time to list here.

It feels like a timing issue, MC times out waiting for the "drive" to wake up, and it starts playing from the 1TB SSD cache. Again "plays fine if  the Drive is awake.
 
As far as "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind" - this is on an overflow single 8TB USB connected  drive, it will not play from the MENU ….. period.
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JimH

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2018, 02:22:38 pm »

MC doesn't really "wake" the drive.  That's the job of the OS.

MC asks the OS for a file.  What happens next is up to the OS.

Antivirus software might do something like this.
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23Anonymous

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2018, 02:32:17 pm »

So why does it some times say "waiting for drive to WAKE"? Is it not waiting long enough?
Why are parts of my post missing? I'm I doing something wrong?
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23Anonymous

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2018, 02:36:16 pm »

Michaelt's123, not sure of the question, BUT.... It's "direct attached storage", no network or external NAS.
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JimH

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2018, 03:10:00 pm »

So why does it some times say "waiting for drive to WAKE"? Is it not waiting long enough?
Who is saying that?  The OS?
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23Anonymous

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2018, 03:16:52 pm »

MC24
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JimH

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2018, 03:23:22 pm »

Do you have a screenshot?  I don't think that's our error message.
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23Anonymous

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2018, 03:26:41 pm »

NOT a window POP UP happens to fast, same back ground as I'm using for MC24
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23Anonymous

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2018, 05:20:38 pm »

I was rushing the last post, When the message pops up it disappears too quick to get a "screen shot", just like the loading disc message.
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Jamil

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2018, 07:51:28 am »

Just an FYI-- I get this waiting for drive to wake info message (not an error) from MC too, but I have never encountered issues as you have described.  It is an MC info message.  I was getting this with MC22, and I will also probably see it with MC24.

As far as your reported issue, have you checked for updated firmware and/or drivers for your hardware raid controller?

Fitzcaraldo215

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2018, 10:06:22 am »

I use a dedicated, network attached NAS for my entire library.  When I first sit down to listen, my NAS is usually asleep.  I make a selection in JR and the NAS wakes automatically with no message or popup, and it is up and playing after about a less than 30 second delay.  No unusual delay thereafter, unless the NAS has gone to sleep again after an hour of no activity, a setable parameter in the NAS.
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Jamil

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2018, 10:42:55 am »

I use a dedicated, network attached NAS for my entire library.  When I first sit down to listen, my NAS is usually asleep.  I make a selection in JR and the NAS wakes automatically with no message or popup, and it is up and playing after about a less than 30 second delay.  No unusual delay thereafter, unless the NAS has gone to sleep again after an hour of no activity, a setable parameter in the NAS.

This is the same behavior I experience, but MC22 was coded to display a popup with a spinning icon showing it is waiting for drives to wake.  It is a themed dialog, so MC has been coded to do this.  This is obvious.

Why you are not seeing it is a mystery though.  I have not yet seen it with MC24 though.

tij

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2018, 11:05:19 am »

i use enterprise drives (not that much expensive than consumer) and i dont spin those down ... but thats another topic

What Jim is suggesting may be true regarding antivirus ... possible scenario: MC requests access to files ... Windows wakes drives ... Antivirus see awakened drive as a new drive and starts scanning it thus locking out access to that drive until scan is finished ... Windows is unable to access those files and puts up “waking drive” message
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HTPC: Win11 Pro, MC: latest 31(64b), NV Driver: v425.31, CPU: i9-12900K, 32GB RAM, GeForce: 2080ti
Screen: LG 2016 E6
NAS: FreeNAS 11.1, SuperMicro SSG-5048R-E1CR36L, E5-1620v4, 64GB ECC RAM, 18xUltrastar He12-SAS3 drives, 2x240GB SSD (OS)

23Anonymous

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2018, 02:08:52 pm »

Thanks for all the replies. This is the first time in 23 years of having internet access hat I've ever used or posted to a forum or social group. With that please be gentle if I make mistakes, I'm on a learning curve.

The raid card is in a PCIE slot not Networked or USB connected, so the OS sees the 2 arrays as drives. I have it set to stop the drives after an hour of inactivity. 

MC24 will frequently "fail to start 3D engine" when playing music files, or create a preview in the lower left corner of the movie playing if I have to minimize for a couple minutes. Fix is to reboot, and it may fail again. I used to not have to reboot but every 3-4weeks, MC23 or before with PDVD (which I no longer use). Now I'm rebooting constantly for some "HANG".

I've recently finished collecting 32 more WD RED PRO 6TB drives that I'm going to run as one raid 60 array. This should leave me with 135TB of useable drive before I hit the red. And consolidate into one drive with a few months of expansion room.

I'm running an Intel i7-6700K, Samsung 500g 950 PRO as the OS C: drive. 64G DDR4 ram, the Adaptec 81605ZQ Raid card with 16 - 6TB WD RED PRO drives (2 -32TB arrays at the moment, see screen shot above) and Nvida 1080 (founders), only anti virus is Defender.

Basically I wasn't having issues with MC23 now I do with 24, several. a few hours ago I tried to open the Library View and got a message that I needed a newer version of the "driver", after a total reboot it was fine. Any of the hangs I get require a reboot to clear, not close reopen MC24.

Oh...the reason I set the drives to power down after an hour is to save some cash and heat when not used, maybe for days....
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23Anonymous

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2018, 02:12:42 pm »

Some more basic info,

Library
    Total files: 41573
    Audio files: 23638
    Image files: 7807
    Video files: 7142
    Other files: 2986
Processing
    Thumbnails built: 25% (10512 of 41573)
    Audio analyzed: 2% (534 of 30780)
Background Tools Running
    No tools currently running
Power
    Playback (disable automatic sleep)
Media Center
    Version: 24.0.27 registered
    Install path: C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 24\
    Interface plug-ins: Interface Plugins: TiVo Server (not running)
    JRMark: 5338 (version 23.0.102)
    Memory used: 313 MB memory
    Handles used: 909 handles
Advanced System Info
    Memory & CPU
        CPU features: MMX, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, AVX
        Free Physical Memory: 57.1 GB
        Total Memory: 62.1 GB
    Operating System
        Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit
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JimH

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2018, 03:13:31 pm »

Windows Defender might still cause problems.  There is a stick thread on it here.  Try a search.

You've got a lot of drives.  Have you taken a look at power requirements?
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23Anonymous

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2018, 05:45:30 pm »

SEASONIC platinum 1200W PSU. I have learned over the years that low power (voltage) can cause a pile of poo with electronics, my first go to when trouble shooting. I should still have headroom if I did the math right. I tend to round up figures to be safe, BUT......

Five of the Drives are temporary overflow USB with separate power supplies. There is a 1.5KW 2U APC UPS to keep the input voltage stable.

I'll be using addition Power Supply (s) as I add more drives, Expansion drive chassis.

Once playing I have no issues running the HI PERFORMANCE (MadVR) video setting, plays great.....
I feel that it's a timing issue launching the Menu, It will start playing audio and stutter video than freeze at about 15sec on the time line. Can return to the Library Page but can not start a movie or video file until a reboot, then plays perfect. I have one 4K movie, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, that will hang on the menu always. Same symptoms as on drive wake but starting from a spinning drive. I can play files out of the folder with no problem but the INDEX hangs. Only one I've found so far out of 40 4K folders linked to INDEX. Again coming back to some JAVA timing issue. I'm not a programmer or even comfortable in "DOS", so I may have an issue communicating what I see/experience.  As a side note I'm pretty sure it's not a speed issue with the SAS3 raid card, If I move >2TB of video files/folders between the two 32TB drives, a bad day is 750mb sec at the lowest, I've seen it run over 1.+gb. I'm working to speed it up a bit more.
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michael123

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2018, 03:03:16 pm »

Michaelt's123, not sure of the question, BUT.... It's "direct attached storage", no network or external NAS.

Your setup should fly..
Sure that's not a driver or HW or firmware issue?

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michael123

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2018, 03:11:25 pm »

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23Anonymous

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2018, 04:59:50 am »

just did the 24.0.30 update ………….. Problems ALL GONE. (I hope) With that being said I'll give it a few days, and tries, to see if it's really fixed. I started a disc from both arrays, they took about 30 seconds to spin up from OFF but each BluRay rode though and presented menu/played. One gave me the spin-ee loading thing and a cover picture one just went dark until it played.
I hope this is forward progress...……………………...
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michael123

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2018, 05:41:45 am »

Why does it take 30 seconds to spin up for the local(!) disk?
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23Anonymous

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2018, 01:16:40 am »

Michael123....long story to your short Question.
 I've been on a raid learning curve for a while. Started with an Adaptec 7 series card, sas2 6gbs, and progressed to 5 WD Black 5TB drives stuffed in a dell case, level 5 raid. Gave me basically 16TB usable storage space, which I quickly filled.
I picked up a Norco 4U 16 bay SAS2 server chassis to hold more drives and it has two 5.25" bays, BluRay drive and a six 2.5" Icy Dock drive bay. Moved the Dell MB in and got 8 WD Red Pro 6 TB drives. Started building raid 5 - 50 & 6 configurations to learn on. Using the original WD 5TB drives in five of the 16 bays and a couple Black 6TB drive as "HOT SPARES", I started speed tests by transferring TBs of BluRays at time between drives and running benchmarks. Than I started yanking drives to see how long the rebuild times would be. The global Hot Spares would pick up instantly. They can be left or a new drive be installed in the failed location and rebuild will continue. So just like with cars I got speed crazy and want to see how fast I can get transfer rates up to ….. enter the 81605ZQ SAS3 12gbs raid card (RAC - raid on chip), Q is the MAX CACHE version which allows you to use SSDs as cache. I'm using five 256gb Samsung 850 Pros in raid 5 for basically a TB of cache. I currently have the two 30TB configurations ( 8 - 6TB drives each) in the screen shot on the same controller. One Raid 50 & Raid 6. I can move TBs between the two at the slowest speed of 750mbs on a bad day, I've seen it run over 1gbs for a while.
 
SO...………..To your question about 30 second spin up time...……..
I have the option to slow the drive after xxxx time of no activity and\or stop them. I like to just leave the system on and only reboot every 21 - 28 days under normal conditions, basically updates. So since I may not use the system for a few days I shut the drives down. The controller checks on them every 24hrs. I also have it set to spin up progressively, Instead of all simultaneously. This is easier on the PSU, start up pulls more load until up to speed. So It takes a few to wake UP. I never put a stop watch on it, I can if you want the data.
 
 With all of the above info, I've been collecting parts and pieces to build a server workstation using a Supermicro X10DAX MB
and a couple Xeon E5-2650s I have. 126G ram, Intel® SSD DC P3608 Series 1.6TB NVME run in raid 0, Nvidia Titan Xp,
Adaptec 81605ZQ raid controller with 8 - 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSDs for the Max Cache, (I found SSDs get slower as they fill, so raid 5 and short stroked for 2TB of cache, the most the controller can deal with).
I've decided Raid 60 is the best for my media storage and playback. I have 40 - 6TB WD RED PROs I can use. I'm on the fence...…. 32 = 16 x 2 configuration or 39 = 13 x 3 configuration. either gives me good safety from failure, 3 being better and faster, I think / Hope!  32 drives should be about 135TB of usable space, 39 about 159TB. Spin up time?
I think Windows 10 Pro can deal with a drive that large.
  Anyway ….. learning curve - you never really know until you build it and beat the poo out of it.
OH... did I mention water cooled? Trying for as quite as possible with a bunch of spinning media, 10s of POUNDS of sound deadening material being applied to the chassis. The X10DAX mother board can overclock the Xeons a little.
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michael123

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2018, 09:17:44 am »

It is quite of a system :)

I also use some new Adaptec 12Gbps raid card for my (smaller) unraid system, and the spinup time is instantaneous.. maybe couple of seconds.

It is a NAS system, and JRiver couldn't be faster now.

Now, yours - supposed to be much better than mine.
I still don't understand what's wrong with your disk spin-up
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23Anonymous

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2018, 02:12:38 pm »

do you stop completely? or slow down?
I'm going by what the drive activity lights are doing. I select PLAY for a movie that is on G: drive that has stopped.
Starting immediately one after another drives start to light and go out. After a pass of all 8 drives it does what I'm assuming is a scan of the array for integrity (drive meta data) the blinkies are whipping all around. Then playback continues. This latest MC24 build has so far been more consistent in presenting the "opening" and a spinny thing while the drive spins up.
Just thought.....UNRAID..... Is your card in HBI mode? Is Unraid controlling the drives? I'm running the 81605ZQ as hardware raid. The RAID ON CHIP "RAC" may be acting different in how the drives wake.
Again I'm on a learning curve here. I've thought about using an older SUPERMICRO 24 drive server I have to try learning about the software raids. Meanly because I was curious about the safer raid level, three failures and able to recover. Thinking about long term storage and putting the drives out of the living space.
I started with the idea of a big computer with 10+ drives, a hardware raid PCIE card (DAS direct attach storage)seemed to be the best choice to keep the load off of the i7-6700 and not get into NAS. COMPUTER to TV <3' HDMI cable.
Hey... I'm taking the time (and I hate typing - old school paper and pen easier) to put more details out then you might need or want, so that it might help some one else with what questions to ask if they are trying to figure this stuff out. There is a ton of info out there on the "net" but it's like going though the world's biggest junk drawer (every kitchen has one, right?) to find it. I miss the old days of a technically correct owner's manual. All we get now if anything is hieroglyphs.
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michael123

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2018, 12:47:53 am »

unRaid powers off completely the drives.

My card - Adaptec 1000 2288400-R - is in HBA (IT mode), so that unRaid is controlling the drives

unRaid BTW is a good choice for the home hardware, as you don't have to spin all the drives
and it is indeed in another room, JRiver is sitting on the completely fanless nice-looking PC in the living room

In any case, this forum is not the most appropriate, JimH was right IMHO this has nothing to do with JRiver

I recommend you visit unRaid forum, even though you are not on unRaid, there are really crazy people out there
https://lime-technology.com/forums/forum/33-storage-devices-and-controllers/

I think you do have some hardware (or driver/configuration) issue

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Jamil

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Re: Problem with RAID
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2018, 05:24:36 am »

Do you have a screenshot?  I don't think that's our error message.

This is your warning dialog, and it is confirmed that you added in several versions ago here:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=94845.0

I just saw it in MC24 this morning for the first time after attempting to play files from my NAS.  This is a feature that you added.
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