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Author Topic: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft  (Read 2846 times)

JimH

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Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« on: October 06, 2018, 07:15:05 am »

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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2018, 07:29:22 am »

Maybe this will finally be the wake-up call to Microsoft to not 'outsource' QA testing to "Insiders" and bring back a proper testing team? Doubtful...

What they really need to do is cut down the updates from two a year to one a year, like Apple does with macOS. For the first half of the year, they add new features and enhancements. The other half of the year, bug fixes and tweaks. But they probably won't do that, heh.
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RD James

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2018, 03:46:30 am »

Maybe this will finally be the wake-up call to Microsoft to not 'outsource' QA testing to "Insiders" and bring back a proper testing team? Doubtful...
The problem goes beyond QA testing, as there are several reports of this data loss problem on the Feedback Hub from Insiders dating back ~3 months.
Even Task Manager is broken in this release and they just decided to mark it as a "known issue" and ship anyway.

It seems like a cultural problem, and feels like people are given a list of tasks to complete for the next release, and so long as they do work which technically crosses those items off the list, it doesn't matter what else was broken along the way - just ship it and we'll maybe end up fixing it later.
 
What they really need to do is cut down the updates from two a year to one a year, like Apple does with macOS. For the first half of the year, they add new features and enhancements. The other half of the year, bug fixes and tweaks. But they probably won't do that, heh.
We could do with a few years of bug fixes only first.
They keep breaking more and more with every release now, and it's not like they're focused on UWP and making Windows a better platform while neglecting legacy software - their new software is just as bad, if not worse.
 
It's making me seriously consider switching away from using Windows as my primary OS now, and using it inside a VM where necessary.
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swiv3d

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2018, 05:25:29 am »

My windows 1809 seems to be doing ok so far, task manager works just as before - but yes windows is bad, bad , bad - naughty windows. (Puts computer on naughty step for at least ten minutes!!!)
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RD James

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2018, 06:17:29 am »

My windows 1809 seems to be doing ok so far, task manager works just as before [...]
Are you sure? I've seen a lot of people reporting that it's displaying things like CPU usage at 1/10th of the actual usage.
Microsoft acknowledged it as a "known issue" when they first posted the build, so I'd be more surprised if it's only broken on some systems and not all.

  • Task Manager is not reporting accurate CPU usage.
  • Arrows to expand “Background processes” in Task Manager are blinking constantly and weirdly.
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swiv3d

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2018, 06:33:10 am »

Just tried CPU usage and I don't see any understating of activity - on both my main pc and my little brix which is currently having its cpu maxed out by a virus scan I initiated. But I do get the flashing expansion arrows - very fetching!
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RD James

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2018, 06:48:27 am »

Just tried CPU usage and I don't see any understating of activity - on both my main pc and my little brix which is currently having its cpu maxed out by a virus scan I initiated. But I do get the flashing expansion arrows - very fetching!
I mean, it's almost worse if it's only breaking on some systems rather than breaking in the same way on all of them.
I do think it's also interesting that the post from Microsoft says that the 17763 insider build is not "done" and yet that's what they decided to ship to everyone.
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swiv3d

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2018, 06:52:30 am »

Perhaps they have adopted JRiver's business model! ( I can feel JimH bearing down upon me even as I post this!!!!! ?)
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2018, 07:55:57 am »

Unlike Microsoft, JRiver actually has a team of dedicated beta testers for that kind of thing. Even the MC beta builds are much, much, MUCH more stable than the 'RTM' Windows 10 update builds. There's really no comparison.

The problem goes beyond QA testing, as there are several reports of this data loss problem on the Feedback Hub from Insiders dating back ~3 months.
Even Task Manager is broken in this release and they just decided to mark it as a "known issue" and ship anyway.

Indeed, I believe it's the management too at Microsoft that's an issue forcing deadlines and other issues, starting with Satya Nadella. He's the reason why the entire Windows testing team was laid off some years back. What little actual testing Microsoft does now, is done in virtual machines. Which is one of the reasons why issues like these tend to slip by (or in this case, largely ignored for 3~ months) because there's little real world testing going on.

There's rumors there's a change in management coming for the Windows team. We'll see if that makes anything better as I'd consider the Insider program an epic failure at this point. Considering that Microsoft has moved the Windows division under Azure (which is unheard of, as Windows was one of if not the main division for Microsoft for decades) Windows' future is uncertain. I'd certainly recommend looking into moving away from Windows if this trend of shipping software with showstopper bugs continues. With gaming on Linux finally becoming a thing thanks to Valve with their Steam Play and Proton (Wine fork with DXVK integrated) efforts, people might consider using Linux in the future. Now if only Adobe would port Photoshop/Creative Cloud suite to Linux, lots of other people might jump ship.
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swiv3d

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2018, 08:08:39 am »

Silly me, and there's me thinking the insiders program was about beta testers. Me going to sit on naughty step for ten minutes.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2018, 08:14:43 am »

Silly me, and there's me thinking the insiders program was about beta testers. Me going to sit on naughty step for ten minutes.

Insiders are the glorified QA testers Microsoft has now. But there's a couple issues with this... 1) I'd reckon a good number of the Insiders are running the Insider builds in virtual machines which kinda defeats the purpose. I myself was guilty of this as Insider builds are too buggy to install on a production machine. 2) Those who actually install these Insider builds on their boxes that encounter serious issues like this and report them are largely ignored for months until they push out the 'final' build to production... only to pull it because that issue that was previously reported yet ignored is causing issues in the wild.

This is, what, the second or third time this has happened with Microsoft pulling the update because of some serious issue?

P.S. On the 'bright side' since 1803, I haven't encountered the start menu issue anymore. I guess there's that? ::)
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swiv3d

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2018, 08:20:30 am »

Windows is working well enough for me to play my music through JRiver MC and really that's all I care about. In my experience every operating system has it's flaws and every provider could do better - life is too short to waste it worrying about cpu usage not being reported correctly.
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JimH

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2018, 08:28:25 am »

Silly me, and there's me thinking the insiders program was about beta testers.
I think the Insider program is more like our Latest group, which is open to anyone who wants to subscribe or download.

Our Beta group is valuable to us because, when a bug is reported there, it's nearly certain to be a bug.  They're also generally better at reporting details and confirming each other's reports.  Not too many serious problems slip past them.
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swiv3d

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2018, 08:36:23 am »

You may have noticed that I have not been overly serious in my posts in this particular thread as it is mainly a rant which will make no difference to microsoft or anyone else really. As for bugs I agree with you JimH, with the proviso that the long time reported incorrect display of menus in the standard view has never been corrected.
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JimH

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2018, 08:46:13 am »

You may have noticed that I have not been overly serious in my posts in this particular thread as it is mainly a rant which will make no difference to microsoft or anyone else really. As for bugs I agree with you JimH, with the proviso that the long time reported incorrect display of menus in the display view has never been corrected.
Please report any bugs in the thread that announces the build.  You can link to a previous report if needed.
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drmimosa

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2018, 09:05:53 am »

Kudos to JRiver for investing in Linux and OSX ports. That's got to feel like a good decision and time/money well spent.
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RD James

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2018, 10:27:14 am »

P.S. On the 'bright side' since 1803, I haven't encountered the start menu issue anymore. I guess there's that? ::)
I'm still running into problems where the start menu, search, and task view displays can be very slow to appear, but never to the point that I have to kill processes to fix it any more.
 
But 1803 broke windowed-mode G-Sync and it has yet to be fixed by Microsoft or NVIDIA - even in the 1809 update - which is a big problem for me.
madVR has issues with frames not being presented correctly in windowed mode on 1803 too.
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rudyrednose

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2018, 12:43:20 pm »

If the Linux version had full MC functionality I would get rid of Windows.

However, since we are cord cutters and rely on MC for OTA TV (ATSC, through a pair of HDHomeRun HDHR4) it seems we will be hostages to the the vagaries of Windows for a long, long time...  :(
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2018, 12:51:04 pm »

Television support may not be possible outside of Windows. I'd be interested to know if anything's changed on that front.

In other news, Microsoft fixed the data loss 'bug'... except it wasn't a bug at all, it was a new feature in the Windows 10 October 2018 (1809) update!

https://www.onmsft.com/news/that-windows-10-october-2018-update-bug-wasnt-a-bug-at-all-and-why-that-should-concern-you
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swiv3d

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2018, 06:21:39 pm »

Everyone knows that Operating systems don't have bugs they have 'Features' (Many of them quite unexpected) - Been like that since 1978.
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mwillems

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2018, 06:31:32 pm »

Television support may not be possible outside of Windows. I'd be interested to know if anything's changed on that front.

Me too! Obviously, for some TV cards there are no linux drivers so that's obviously a non-starter, but several TV card brands (especially the networked tuners, like the HD Homeruns) seem to work fine on Linux.  I can play from my HDHomerun prime with other media players on Linux (like VLC or Kodi) or even watch directly through the browser via the HDHomerun's web interface.  It seems like there's at least *some* low-hanging fruit in TV support for Linux, but there may be enough of a gap that it's not worth picking that fruit.

As to the broader OS discussion, I got sick of Windows' shenanigans.  I've got one windows box left that's used for the family room HTPC.  Everything else (including satellite HTPCs) is linux at this point.  I'm tired of being involuntarily surprised by my OS at intervals, and constantly having to reapply settings over and over.  Linux may take more effort to setup, but once it's working the way you want, you can keep things frozen that way (more or less).  Major upgrades can be slightly disruptive, but you can choose when you do them and needn't do them more often than every three years without having to go without security patches, or you can delay them forever if you don't care about security or feature updates (if the machine in question is an appliance with no network access for example).  I'm much happier now that I don't have to wonder what will be broken the next time I go to use a computer, and can actually plan for software updates that might have breaking changes.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2018, 07:35:15 pm »

P.S. On the 'bright side' since 1803, I haven't encountered the start menu issue anymore. I guess there's that? ::)

I'm still seeing this, particularly if I have played something on Steam, or worse, if I have played MC and Steam. I'm on 1803 of course.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

Marpow

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2018, 08:59:21 pm »

New to forum. I had a windows update this week that really screwed up my network shares, after a couple days I think I have it fixed?
My question, JRiver did an update also and the cover art icons next to tracks is too big and covers some of the beginning letters of each track list. Everything else is fine.
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JimH

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2018, 06:50:07 am »

As to the broader OS discussion, I got sick of Windows' shenanigans.  I've got one windows box left that's used for the family room HTPC.  Everything else (including satellite HTPCs) is linux at this point.  I'm tired of being involuntarily surprised by my OS at intervals, and constantly having to reapply settings over and over.  Linux may take more effort to setup, but once it's working the way you want, you can keep things frozen that way (more or less).  Major upgrades can be slightly disruptive, but you can choose when you do them and needn't do them more often than every three years without having to go without security patches, or you can delay them forever if you don't care about security or feature updates (if the machine in question is an appliance with no network access for example).  I'm much happier now that I don't have to wonder what will be broken the next time I go to use a computer, and can actually plan for software updates that might have breaking changes.
Split discussion to Linux looking more attractive.
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michael123

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2018, 06:52:20 am »

New to forum. I had a windows update this week that really screwed up my network shares, after a couple days I think I have it fixed?
My question, JRiver did an update also and the cover art icons next to tracks is too big and covers some of the beginning letters of each track list. Everything else is fine.

Maybe Windows disabled SMB v1, if that's the case you can re-enabled via features
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2018, 11:08:57 am »

As far as I know, starting with 1709 Windows 10 doesn't enable/install SMB v1 by default, due to how much of a security risk it is.

If you have a SMB v1 only device, I'd highly recommend looking for an alternative to get off of using SMB v1.
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RD James

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2018, 11:29:59 am »

As far as I know, starting with 1709 Windows 10 doesn't enable/install SMB v1 by default, due to how much of a security risk it is.
On top of that, if you upgrade to 1709 or newer, Windows will automatically remove SMBv1 support if it is not used within the first 15 days.

If you have a SMB v1 only device, I'd highly recommend looking for an alternative to get off of using SMB v1.
Depending on how frequently you need to access this, an alternative may be to set up a VM with SMBv1 enabled.
I have a device which only supports SMBv1, but I only need to access it maybe once or twice a year now, and it's much easier to boot up a VM with access to it than enabling SMBv1 on the main OS.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2018, 11:44:48 am »

Depending on how frequently you need to access this, an alternative may be to set up a VM with SMBv1 enabled.

That's... not a bad idea at all actually.
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MikeH935

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2018, 05:12:15 am »

I have 2 computers and they both run jriver 23. They both updated to windows 1809. One of them is fine but the other will now not play wma audio files. JRiver does not error and my DAC is showing the file is sent but all I get from the speakers is pops and crackles. All other file formats are ok. I’ve tried the obvious things like uninstalling jriver and reinstalling. I tried jriver 24 but got the same result. I can however play the files from Kodi. Anyone else had any issues are better still a solution?
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JimH

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2018, 06:30:50 am »

I have 2 computers and they both run jriver 23. They both updated to windows 1809. One of them is fine but the other will now not play wma audio files. JRiver does not error and my DAC is showing the file is sent but all I get from the speakers is pops and crackles. All other file formats are ok. I’ve tried the obvious things like uninstalling jriver and reinstalling. I tried jriver 24 but got the same result. I can however play the files from Kodi. Anyone else had any issues are better still a solution?
There is a fix for this in MC24.
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MikeH935

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2018, 09:39:29 am »

I tried jr 24 but that had the same problem. I’ve restored back to my previous windows version and all is working fine. Should I upgrade to jr 24 before I go back to 1809?
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2018, 09:54:12 am »

Maybe MS broke something in the Windows 10 October 2018 Update in regards to WMA playback? I suppose you could try enabling logging, attempt to play a WMA file in MC, then look at the log to see if there's any errors.

If it worked in 1803 and doesn't in 1809, it certainly sounds like something broke in the 1809 update. I wouldn't be surprised, considering how many issues the 1809 update has had.
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swiv3d

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2018, 04:18:59 pm »

I just played a wma file with windows 1809 + latest cumulative update and it worked fine.
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logan9778

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2018, 02:23:06 am »

Don't know if this will help, but a long while back I had HUGE issues with Windows Explorer not being able to see my network.  I can't remember exactly how I solved it, but it had something to do with SMB v1 not being supported by Windows Explorer anymore.  I'm pretty sure I changed something in my machine to get explorer to see the network, and it had something to do with WS Discovery (Web Services Dynamic Discovery).
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RoderickGI

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Re: Windows 10 October Update Pulled by Microsoft
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2018, 02:47:14 am »

Don't know if this will help, but a long while back I had HUGE issues with Windows Explorer not being able to see my network.

As Awesome Donkey says above, that would have been back at release 1709.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114852.0.html
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner
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