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Author Topic: Panel Evaluation  (Read 11991 times)

JimH

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Panel Evaluation
« on: December 31, 2018, 09:33:01 am »

We started working on Panel more than a year ago now.  I'd like to know what your opinion is and whether you find it useful.

I'm well aware that it won't solve all problems for all people.  It was intended as a light weight remote solution with emphasis on ease of use and on touchscreens.  It also still lacks some important capabilities.

It's technically a superior solution for JRiver since we can maintain one app that works on any OS.  It was fairly quick for us to add it as the front end GUI for the new Android version of JRiver.

But, first of all, do you use it?  Is it reasonably satisfactory for this use?
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mark_h

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2018, 09:59:53 am »

Hate to end the year on a sour note!  But you asked... 

Don't use panel - won't use panel.  At least not until it's as good as, or better, than JRemote...

I've made my arguments elsewhere, so won't rehash, so am just directly answering the question for the tally.

Happy New Year to all the team and thanks for one of my very favourite pieces of software ever.

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mattkhan

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2018, 10:11:40 am »

I use it and think it's useful. I probably use it more than jremote though that is mainly because I find jremote (android) really quite buggy/glitchy.

Overall I think concentrating resources on one remote solution and making that as good as it can be would be a good thing.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2018, 10:14:52 am »

I use it too on my low performance Windows 10 tablets, and it works pretty well there. That said, I find the thumbnail listing of artists and albums to be kinda annoying. I really, really hope Panel gains a list view at some point. Also I find the slider at the top pretty useful (though it's kinda easy to swipe to the wrong letter/location). I also hope a # to Z letter listing is added somewhere too so I can quickly get to a specific letter then use the slider to get on the right page. Switching to Playing Now and back to the library is kinda annoying though. Some sort of easy toggle between the two would be great for easier navigation. Yes, the back button works, but it kinda seems cumbersome to me for some reason.
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marko

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2018, 10:18:15 am »

I tried, and tried, and tried again... even to the point of installing Firefox, Chrome and Edge on my phone...

Could never get it working satisfactorily... Wondered if the HTPC could boot up into Panel, and if the Girls would like that any better... Couldn't get that to work either...

JRemote still streets ahead for me (and Theater View on HTPC) Lord alone knows what I'd do if JRemote ever breaks :)

-marko

AndrewFG

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2018, 11:40:19 am »

It is usable (just). But it lacks important features.

Top of my wish list is an improved Search function: today you just get a list of all tracks that have something matching the search term; but what it needs is a Search like in MC or JRemote which give a categorized list by Artists, Albums, Composers, Tracks, etc.

Another feature I miss is the ability to delete a track from a playlist (via swipe left, or press and hold menu).

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mwillems

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2018, 12:09:52 pm »

I like panel well enough on PCs or laptops, but I mostly don't use it in preference to gizmo or jremote on android.  The native scrolling experience in gizmo and jremote (infinite) is better than in panel on android, and the Gizmo/JRemote interface is generally more responsive (but panel's responsiveness has improved a lot).  More important to me: gizmo has better and more reliable caching options which are very important for a mobile streaming solution (JRemote's lack of fine grained caching controls is why I still mostly use Gizmo, even though I like JRemote's interface better).  Panel doesn't seem to cache very reliably for me, and its less configurable.

On a pc or a laptop with a touchscreen, panel works pretty well and I use it often, but it has a few limitations that make it hard to use as an only or primary interface for local streaming of video.  For example, for video, panel has no way (that I can find) to select the audio track.  That's fine 90% of the time, but panel sometimes selects a commentary track or an instrumental track for a video and there's just no way to do anything about it via panel, which makes the video unwatchable without a JRiver desktop instance.  I think it's the same situation with subtitles.   

There are also a few UI peculiarities that I, to be honest, find confusing.  The biggest example is the default video playing behavior.  When I start a video, the video starts playing as a tiny thumbnail in the lower left hand corner.  With a normal touch interface, I would expect it to appear full screen, or at least large and centered.  From the tiny thumbnail, getting to full screen is hard: when I touch the thumbnail the UI goes to the playlist view with a part screen smallish thumbnail of the video rather than a full-screen of the video.  When I tap on the video again, additional controls appear, but it does not enlarge.  On certain devices (i.e. android) the default the playlist-view video has no visible controls until you tap it, so a user might see the standard "full screen" icon on the top bar which is always visible; however, this icon makes the app full-screen without making the video full-screen.  Instead, the user must press on the playing video (an action which normally pauses a playing video on a touch interface) to see the controls, and then press a different full-screen icon identical to the one at the top of the screen, but which is fairly small.  Having identical icons that do different things on the screen at the same time is tough for casual users in my experience.  So once the user has figured out the steps, it requires four presses (or three on PC where the video controls show by default) to get to a full screen video:  one to start the video, one to go to the playlist view, one to reveal the controls, and one to fullscreen the video.  The last of the four is a little fiddly because the target is small. 

I think the default behavior for local video playback (i.e. when playing to "Here") should be to go to either a full-screen view of the video or a large (most of the screen) view of the video (I think giving the user a choice of which of the two should be default would be a sensible configuration option for the options page).  I also think the panel UI full-screen icon should be visually disambiguated in some way from the video full-screen icon so that a user won't confuse them.

On the whole though, it has improved a lot over the last year.  It's much nicer than the old webgizmo view in my opinion, and it just needs some refining.  The audio views in particular I think are very good, and serve my needs well.  I'm a big fan of the back button!
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JimH

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2018, 01:22:16 pm »

Hate to end the year on a sour note!  But you asked... 

Don't use panel - won't use panel.  At least not until it's as good as, or better, than JRemote...
It will never be JRemote or replace it.  Have you tried it recently?
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thecrow

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2018, 01:26:58 pm »

Sorry I am not a fan.
I have tried it but there are better ways to control Media Center so I use them instead.
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JimH

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2018, 01:33:13 pm »

The feedback is useful.  Please don't apologize if you don't like it.  That's why I asked.
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swiv3d

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2018, 03:55:05 pm »

Panel works ok in a basic way but needs to be refined to compete with the quality of jremote or gizmo to be effective.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2018, 08:05:19 pm »

For me, Panel is a bit like a rock when I want to hammer in a nail. It works, but it isn't the best solution, and there are definite downsides. A hammer will always work better.

I was really hopeful that Panel, as an HTML5 application (I believe it is?), would become a whole lot more than it is. I was, and still am, looking for a fully user configurable thin client that can operate on a multitude of devices. Preferably in a browser on a TV being one of the supported options. I was expecting to be able to configure Panel via the server, much like configuring Theatre View via Standard View, and then simply launch it on a device with my configuration. I was hopeful of an interface much closer to Theatre View than it is.

I use it occasionally on my Android phone, to control my HTPC. But I usually use Gizmo to do that task, and it does it a lot better. I can use Gizmo as a direct Remote Control. I use Gizmo when outside my home network, to play content, or look up what I have at home.

The search function in Panel is just annoying. I drill down through Video to Shows, and search for "Doctor", and get all media types back in a list; Audio, Video, Images, etc. There is no context search. There is no search refinement. Pretty much everything is a big dumb list. The Gizmo search isn't much better, but I am more used to the results, and I can see more information in the resulting list. Unless I recognise the name returned by Panel, and it can be just an Episode or Track name, I can't even tell what sort of media the result is. I have to play it to be able to tell. How silly is that?

I was very disappointed when you decide to use Panel as the front end for Android version of JRiver, even in the short term. That is a good part of the reason I haven't downloaded Android version of JRiver yet. Sure, there is also the very limited and new functionality, but if it is just a Panel front end on a MC server running on my phone, what advantage is it giving me? Particularly while it is only able to play media from the default location on my phone, and not from my 200GB microSDXC card.

I still have hope that you might see Panel as becoming a whole lot more. It has no doubt been a learning exercise. I would like to see that learning leveraged into a fully fledged, fully configurable, thin client front end that will run virtually anywhere, connected to a backend MC Server.

Today, Panel looks and functions like a small app written by a one-man software development company, and we know that can be done better, as JRemote exists (even if I don't use it, because of reported issues with the Android version).
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JimH

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2018, 08:51:13 pm »

Panel as an interface for JRiver for Android isn't using JRiver as a server.  It's controlling JRiver and using it for playback, just as Standard View and Theater View do.

I realize that this can get confusing really fast, but it's not a client/server implementation.
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BryanC

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2018, 09:54:00 pm »

I would suggest improving the design UI, the current pastel colored icons just don't really feel very modern. Panel is functional but just doesn't feel professional. It's something I can use and live with but not something I would feel comfortable having other people use to access my library.

I wonder if it would be possible to replicate the standard or theater views by incorporating a built in noVNC server. It would simplify set up for headless users.
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AndrewFG

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2019, 12:32:28 am »


I was hopeful of an interface much closer to Theatre View than it is.


+


The search function in Panel is just annoying. I drill down through Video to Shows, and search for "Doctor", and get all media types back in a list; Audio, Video, Images, etc. There is no context search. There is no search refinement. Pretty much everything is a big dumb list. ... Unless I recognise the name returned by Panel, and it can be just an Episode or Track name, I can't even tell what sort of media the result is. I have to play it to be able to tell. How silly is that?


++
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leezer3

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2019, 06:14:33 am »

General Appearance:
The icons are confusing as heck.
For example, the playlists icon is not at all obvious as to what it does.
There's no explanatory label, no hover tooltip or anything like that.

Adding a non-default view looks even worse- Text and no icon....

We also IMHO need more alternate themes, the pastel tones are really not to my tastes.

Browsing
We need intelligent detection of what something is, and something akin to a file info panel.
Thumbnails need to be present too.
If I'm browsing a TV show listing, I need the episode descriptions etc. available, else it's practically pointless....

Customisation
Alright, this one applies to theatre view too....
We really need the option to create a view within Panel and save it. At the minute, this one simple lack makes the android version essentially unusable.
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drmimosa

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2019, 02:11:28 pm »

I use Panel a lot, every day. Mainly as a remote to cue up media on JRiver clients from an android phone. 

To make things better? Make Panel simpler and faster.

This already works well for playlists, in particular Car Radio, Streaming, and Smartlists. You implemented two click playback, which is hard to get right. For all Car Radio playlists, for example, I just do this: Click on a square, then Click on another Square => hear music, boom done -- that's a good model for how Panel could work throughout the interface.

For other menu items, it takes me longer to get to playback.

Take Music menu into Albums, for example. The big square buttons are great for touch navigation into the menus, but the actual album thumbnails are smaller than the square buttons and hard to read. The scroll feature is slow for large libraries. Then, the "Play file Play All" menu is also slow to pull up on my phone, and by then takes a minute to think through and remember which one I wanted in the first place. I'd prefer a default behavior of replace and play all, changeable in an option menu. Or a long press option for pulling up the menu. Also long press for removing tracks from Playing Now

I keep thinking how the flow from Car Radio icon currently works: "click, click => hear music". Not click wait menu icons scroll menu etc.

Video default full screen behavior of a single file would be a best, mentioned already.

Faster and more responsive on mobile browsers would be a big improvement. Come to think, Gizmo is much faster compared to Panel on Android, I've tried most mobile web browsers. Panel is fasteron my desktop computer. Safari on iPhone often just doesn't work, I tried a few times to figure it out on my wife's iPhone and then just installed Firefox.

More information and options in the playing now. Notably missing is seeing the current zone and a way to switch the zone quickly, like you can in Gizmo. The menu is too many clicks away, and when it plays to the wrong zone it isn't always clear what the problem is and how to fix it for new users.

I really like the global library search, and use it a lot to find things. I think is the only place in JRiver where you can type Miles Davis and get films and albums. But some refinement in how search results are displayed would be nice. In particular, I find it hard to type the name of an album and play just that album.

I still use Engen every day!! Panel is my starting place to get to Engen, which is running on an IdPi, not my main JRiver server. It would be nice if Engen home icon sent me back to the original server's Panel page, not the IdPi Panel page. I think that came up this year in the Engen forum as a request from a couple users.

Thank you and Happy New Year, JimH and team.  Really appreciate you all taking the time to ask for and listen to feedback, always.
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wig

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2019, 07:57:55 am »

Same here; stability issues drove me back to JRemote.

I think Panel is worth pursuing, though. I'm a big fan of the work being done on the Android app!

I tried, and tried, and tried again... even to the point of installing Firefox, Chrome and Edge on my phone...

Could never get it working satisfactorily... Wondered if the HTPC could boot up into Panel, and if the Girls would like that any better... Couldn't get that to work either...

JRemote still streets ahead for me (and Theater View on HTPC) Lord alone knows what I'd do if JRemote ever breaks :)

-marko
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JimH

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2019, 08:39:26 am »

I don't think we have stability issues now.  Please report details.
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hoyt

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2019, 10:22:57 am »

I've come to like Panel, but it's not as natural as it should be to really win people over right away and I have to be very selective on what I use it for.  It simply does not work for large browsing.

  • Speed: The speed is a real issue, and I think it's the #1 issue.  I just broke out the stopwatch on my phone.  To load my album view fully (the last band to have coverart) was 63 seconds.  On another view (live recordings), it was 50 seconds before the first artist got coverart, and the last at 72.  A third view, it was 45 seconds before anything showed on the screen, the numbers started very slowly populating and that took another 90 seconds, and the coverart was done after an additional 90 seconds.  That means I generally use Panel without coverart and skip certain views. That was all on Chrome on my Mac.  On my Android it's about the same, but feels slower because the thumbnails don't load completely until you scroll, meaning if I scroll to the end, the thumbnail in the middle don't load until I scroll back up (or so it seems):

    Artist view to complete: 95 seconds.  I just noticed it doesn't actually complete.  The artists stop at "The State..."  There should be 20 more showing.
    Live view to complete: 120 seconds, actually faster than the Mac.
    I'm trying to load a certain view right now and it's timed out while finishing this post.  I refreshed the page and it loaded.
    Also related to speed, when I return to the home page, often it loads the tiles out of sequence.  Meaning, I see the orange wave one, the pink radio, and engen as the first three.  Then 1 - 2 seconds later, the music note pops up and pushes those down in the sequence.
  • Icons: I agree that the pastel coloring isn't really up to date.  For custom views, I'd like to be able to use something other than words so it's consistent across the user experience.
  • Tagging/ Info: I want to be able to get to more info.  At least be able to see a tag dump.  I'd really like to be able to choose what shows on mobile views vs a full desktop. For example, when I go into a recording, all it lists is the name of the song and the artist.  I want to know what date it was from, what microphones were used, etc.  I don't even see the bitrate on the screen.  It would be great if we could use the Tag Templates somehow with this.  For some areas of my library I want to see those items, for others, I want different items.  This would be based on my hierarchy in my Media Network > Advanced > Customize Views.
  • Coverart: I want panel to get coverart like MC does.  I have a thousands of live recordings.  Some where the recorder/taper has added coverart to the individual FLAC files.  I have added tags to all of these for Series and Season so that in MC it presents a consistent view.  On Panel it's all over the place because it gets coverart from the FLAC files.  This is one of the longest times to load my views I imagine.  If I load my 2018 view for one artist, there are 2,989 files.  But I have 2018 as a Series, so it should just load 1 file because in my coverart folder I have a file named 2018.jpg.  Same thing if I then open up 2018 and go down a layer to the date 2018-07-07, there are 218 files.  However, I have 2018-07-07 as a Season (and a file named 2018 - Season 2018-07-07.jpg in the coverart folder), so it should load 1 file instead of scanning 2018 FLAC files to show coverart.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2019, 10:38:00 am »

Stability issues *could* be caused by the web browser being used. Knowing what web browser and browser version being used might help narrow down any issues.
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mattkhan

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2019, 01:32:09 pm »

(NB: not sure if this is the thread for this)

that does sound astonishingly slow, how many artists is it loading? I see ~5s for ~700 artists in Chrome (on Linux talking to a windows MC server) if I navigate in panel vs ~10s if I hit refresh. Y

FWIW you should find using the built in developer tools gives you a better/more precise way to time what is going on (e.g. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/safari-developer/network-tab-dev1f3525e58/mac for safari). You'll see that the work is just hitting the server with a load of requests for artist images, I would have thought optimising this would be doable if it's a common problem.
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wig

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2019, 02:59:06 pm »

I haven't actually used Panel for a few weeks. The Android App has been much improved during that time; is Panel seeing those same gains?
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hoyt

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2019, 05:46:54 pm »

that does sound astonishingly slow, how many artists is it loading? I see ~5s for ~700 artists in Chrome (on Linux talking to a windows MC server) if I navigate in panel vs ~10s if I hit refresh. Y

Mine isn't that many artists (~200).  The number of files that show isn't all that high either (8,372 as reported inside of the same view in MC).

The Live Recordings view that I built is a lot of files (94,826).
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JimH

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2019, 05:58:23 pm »

I haven't actually used Panel for a few weeks. The Android App has been much improved during that time; is Panel seeing those same gains?
Maybe.  There is some overlap.
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MikeO

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2019, 11:55:09 pm »

I’ve tried it , used it recently as well

To be honest it’s too basic, JRemote it will never be and that remains my go to app for controlling JRiver

One big snag for me is having to work by IP address, climate issues in our South Africa summers mean tha I shut down nightly to avoid lightning strikes , so eac reboot can be a new IP address making it search for that ip before I can start Panel. Yes I could fix the server IP but for what panel gives it’s not worth it

Keep JRemote alive please
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zeltak

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2019, 12:32:25 am »

Hi all

I Love panel yet i stopped using it since there is this one super annoying issue (bug?) where no matter which OS, browser etc i used it would not auto refresh the playlist once the first couple of songs would finish:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,115638.msg817967.html#msg817967

would go back to using it if this is fixed..

best

Z
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RoderickGI

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2019, 12:58:13 am »

One big snag for me is having to work by IP address <snip> Yes I could fix the server IP but for what panel gives it’s not worth it

There are lots of good reasons for using a DHCP Resveration for the MC Server and other devices on your network. I use it for all my PCs, Phones, and other devices, so I always have the same IP Address for each of them. It saves a lot of mucking around, and is much better than setting Static IP Addresses. For one thing, it is all done in the router. No setup in the devices.

Besides, you can address your MC Server by name and connect to Panel without knowing the IP Address. So if your MC Server computer name was TOLKIEN, instead of using http://[IP_Address]:52199 to start Panel, use;

http://TOLKIEN:52199

You can also access Panel with the Access Key from your server by browsing to this URL;

https://jriver.com/panel.html

That is good feedback though. Maybe it is an important reason the silent majority don't use Panel.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

Manfred

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2019, 04:07:00 am »

I tried Panel several times on my Win 10 PC as well as on my iPad 4 (fullscreen does not work there)
 
Quote
It was intended as a light weight remote solution with emphasis on ease of use and on touchscreens.

Quote
It's technically a superior solution for JRiver since we can maintain one app that works on any OS.

If that was your goal you have achieved this from my point of view and I understand that you would never satisfy all users wants and needs  :)

Does it satisfied my needs and a certain enthusiasm - No  ?

Why (My MC Environment consist of a
- PC: Manage the MC library via WIN 10 Remotedesktop on a 34'' UW monitor;
- Media Server: Win 10 Pro with MC server and ~ 40 000 media files under management;
- Media Renderer to play the content to my Devialet with audiophile quality [e.g. I don't like DLNA for video because my LG Display supports only 16 bit audio when using DLNA] and to my 4K TV Display;
- iPad4 for JRemote and to play sometimes a video which is transcoded on the MC server
- Qobuz as Streaming solution with MC WDM Driver and to use it as mobile music streaming service on my iPhone):

- As you mentioned in your initial post it was not intended to replace JRemote-> But then I have no Use Case for Panel because on the PC I use standard View and sometimes Theatre View.
- From a functional PoV it also currently does not replace Theatre View (artist in the Background etc.)
- The look and feel (Ux Design) is behind JRemote and Theatre View
- on my iPad 4 full screen does not work and then there is little space for thumbnails etc.
- If you click on an album you don't have a nice view as on JRemote with a list of files and a bigger thumbnail of the album and also the metadata and additional info like lyrics and pdf's are not shown like in JRemote by pressing "i".

With all the remotes currently available I have one general problem. You always need to a certain extend a keyboard. If you want to simple change some Audio and Video Options or DSP functions you have to use a keyboard and Standard View or Theatre View.

To change simply some of the DSP functions (EQ for choosing a preset, Select/Deselect Volume Leveling, Headphone functions, ...) through a remote without using a keyboard would be a deal breaker from my PoV. 

For me as a customer of MC I am a little uncertain in which direction you like to move, sometimes I have the impression that your customers like JRemote very much but from your PoV the technical base behind JRemote and the Apple based closed eco system is not "loved" by you.    :)
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sjhilton

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2019, 05:39:17 am »

I have used Panel to both access my linux MC server (locally and remotely) and my HTPC (locally). I generally still prefer to use JRemote (or MO 4Media) as they have more functionality.

I'm hoping in future that I may be able to use Panel via a web browser on a smart TV (ie controllable by an ordinary remote) to control my music system. This could be via a web page or as the front-end to the android app.

If the functionality of panel improved then I would consider switching to panel for my mobile devices, but until they are equivalent I will stick with dedicated apps.
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rec head

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2019, 08:46:39 am »

I normally use MO 4Media. I just like it more but it isn't perfect either.

While not at home I just want to hit as few buttons as possible to just get some music going. When I choose a playlist the Play Button at the bottom is grayed out until I click on a Track then choose how I want to listen to that Track out of 6 options. I just want to listen to the playlist. It would be great if that Play Button at the bottom just started the playlist. It would be even better if there was a Shuffle Play button too. Most of the time I want to here a playlist it is in Shuffle. I have resorted to making Smartlists that auto-shuffle the songs just to reduce all the steps in shuffling a playlist. I feel like all these button presses are also one reason that keeps MC an audio/video nerd product. I know it is only a button or two more presses but those are choices that have to be made. Just let me play some music.

Someone said it above but Left Swiping a song out of a playlist would be great.

And since I'm talking about playlists making a playlist isn't a feature of Panel is it?
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JimH

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2019, 08:52:47 am »

While not at home I just want to hit as few buttons as possible to just get some music going. When I choose a playlist the Play Button at the bottom is grayed out until I click on a Track then choose how I want to listen to that Track out of 6 options.
There was a tiny play button in the lower right corner of the playlist, but it's gone missing.  If you press the lower right corner of any icon, it should jump to play.

Car Radio buttons might also do what you expect.  You can save playlists there.
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rec head

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2019, 09:38:25 am »

There was a tiny play button in the lower right corner of the playlist, but it's gone missing.  If you press the lower right corner of any icon, it should jump to play.

Car Radio buttons might also do what you expect.  You can save playlists there.

I think I need a picture because I can't figure out the "If you press the lower right corner of any icon, it should jump to play." suggestion.

Do I save the Car Radio buttons on the server or in Panel? I have never used them. Again a step that keeps my wife from using it.
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tzr916

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2019, 10:28:16 am »

Tried it several times. Don't like it, no plans to use it. Same with Android. Waiting for 10ft UI android theater view, and TV/video playback without transcoding.
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hoyt

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2019, 10:43:16 am »

I think I need a picture because I can't figure out the "If you press the lower right corner of any icon, it should jump to play." suggestion.

I believe he's referring to the play button in the screenshot I just attached.  It shows as a play icon in Chrome on the desktop because you hover.  It doesn't show on my Android, likely because there's no hover, and tapping in the bottom right corner doesn't seem to make it play (at least in my attempt at tapping).

Do I save the Car Radio buttons on the server or in Panel? I have never used them. Again a step that keeps my wife from using it.

I only set one up this morning to try to make playing a streaming site easier, so I'm no expert on how they work, but you set them up on the server, under the Playlist tree.
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JimH

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2019, 11:05:26 am »

Do I save the Car Radio buttons on the server or in Panel? I have never used them. Again a step that keeps my wife from using it.
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Car_Radio
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Manfred

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2019, 12:11:09 pm »

If Panel would be an App like Amazon Prime or Netflix on my 4K TV and it would be capable to view my movies, Audio, Images stored on my MC Server through Panel without DLNA would also be from my PoV a game changer to use Panel.

Advantage would be: no madVR anymore needed (Newest Sony and LG TV are very good in upscaling video content), no additional Media Renderer needed, only two interface : Ethernet as input interface, HDMI, optical as Output Interface to the DAC (PCM/DSD).

The MC server must then stream audio and video to the android based App running on top of Android TV and the App must be capable to handle 24/192 as well as DSD? 
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rec head

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2019, 01:20:26 pm »

I believe he's referring to the play button in the screenshot I just attached.  It shows as a play icon in Chrome on the desktop because you hover.  It doesn't show on my Android, likely because there's no hover, and tapping in the bottom right corner doesn't seem to make it play (at least in my attempt at tapping).

Thanks. I see what you are talking about. If I'm at a PC I just use an MC client. To me remotes are for mobile.

There have been several comments about turning Panel into Theater View. I don't quite get it. Theater view on my phone doesn't sound great.

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rec head

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2019, 01:22:24 pm »

If Panel would be an App like Amazon Prime or Netflix on my 4K TV and it would be capable to view my movies, Audio, Images stored on my MC Server through Panel without DLNA would also be from my PoV a game changer to use Panel.

The dream of many.
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TheShoe

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2019, 07:00:39 pm »

i check in often with Panel to see what’s new, but still prefer JRemote on both my phone and tablet for both remote music playback when i am out-and-about and for controlling MC on the big screen at home (as my htpc remote)

typically use Panel for local device video playback on phone or tablet since video on ios devices in jremote is broken
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Scobie

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2019, 08:32:25 pm »

I don't mind Panel as one of the options for MC.

I doubt it will ever - or is meant to -  replace JRemote, or the MC interface itself for that matter for any heavy lifting but it is handy to have running on the Family Mac where you can easily make selections without looking for the phone.

It has its kinks that I am sure will be ironed out, but as a lightweight functional addition I think its pretty good for what it does.
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park

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2019, 12:24:58 am »

I played with it a little over the holidays to play choose and play movies remotely while staying with family. My main feedback:

1. The deepest level of my views is a grouping called "Title" and this shows the thumbnail of the movie. When i click on it, i am taken to a file list of one file and nothing happens. Clicking on the text link loads the movie into the player but it never plays. Its just a black screen with 0:00 duration. The only way to get a movie to play is to click on the little "play button" overlay that appears on the thumbnail at the Title level.
It took us way to long to figure out how to get a movie to play. Some of it is poor interface (expect clicking on the thumbnail to play the file), and some of it is functionality that doesnt work (clicking on the text label link doesnt successfully play).

2. All of the interface decision you took with theater view (skipping levels that only have one item, breadcrumbs up in the top slider, thumbnail size/ratio/spacing, dark theme, info panel) were excellent. I would imagine that a web browser with touch as the primary input method should be able to give the user the ultimate theater view experience (all the convenience of theater view, plus the speed increases of touch scrolling, higher thumbnail density and smaller text on larger resolution monitors, etc)

3. I would agree with previous comments that making the portal to panel (https://jriver.com/panel.html) easier to discover for the user (maybe integrate with the "share" features of the native OS to share out the link to the users' other devices, email, etc) and maybe more similar in design to the webapp itself (style it like the front page of the app) would drive up its' usage a bit.

4. Since using Google Play Music, the ability to be able to offline save an album, and filter my views to just see what is locally saved, has been the biggest thing keeping me using the service. It would be nice to see an offline mode to the webapp (making Panel a full blown Progressive web app).

5. It would also be good if Media Center had default views (not playlists) that mimick the web streaming services: "Recently played" (that groups by album thumbnails for music), "My list" for video (and "Add to list", auto remove from list when movie is finished).
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Ferdi

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2019, 01:57:39 pm »

Similar to others here: I tried, I tried again, a few more times - and always revert back to JRemote (and increasingly to the native Sonos app when I am at home, as it plays more reliably to my Sonos speakers). I don't understand the value prop for Panel over JRemote for me as a user.

Here’s why I return to JRemote everytime I try.
  • Login. It occasionally asks for user name and pw, and if it does, it does so twice. I often listen to music when on the road, driving, walking, … and entering credentials every so often on Panel is inconvenient. JRemote saves the credentials, and I often find myself to ignore Panel for weeks or months after that. I am sure there’s a setting, but I just can’t be bothered to search, research, fiddle around. JRemote just works.
  • Performance / latency, and this is a big one. It just takes too long for images to load, and the lack of a list view amplifies the problem.
  • UX. Not just for performance reasons, I would much prefer a list view to be able to quicker browse my library. The tile view makes poor usage of screen estate. This includes situations where no image is displayed in the tiles, just a number, and numbers only uses 20% or so of the real estate of a tile.
  • UX. The scrolling behavior is different than on other apps, it doesn’t allow me to scroll quick / accelerated. Not sure how else to describe it. But it ties in with my above mentioned point of browsing and finding music quickly.
  • UX. The scroll bar for the letters on top (A - Z) is great. It should stay on top though when I start scrolling down in the list.
  • UI. Very subjective. The color palette of the tiles just doesn’t appeal to me at all. The overall impression is that the app has an outdated look at and feel.
  • UX. Sometimes I just don't understand what's going on. When I expect to see all albums, it shows just a few, and the letter indicator / scroll bar shows letters that don't make sense to me. None of that ever happens to me on JRemote or on the desktop app.

There's a lot of music apps out there that in my view have a more modern look and feel and that are more functional. Absolutely including JRemote, my all time favorite, but even apps like Spotify and Sonos (the latter one I wouldn't even call a great app).
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badger

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2019, 02:51:39 pm »

My need for a remote is "outside" my network.  So I've tried panel a half dozen times outside the network and at some point it just stops playing.  When it does play there are varied delays between tracks.  Usually too long a delay between tracks to be acceptable. My reliable "go-to" for remote is EOS.  I recently found out that EOS is officially unavailable so....  I'd love a supported JRiver remote and I could use Panel if it worked.  Playlist shuffle is a must though (maybe that feature is there now?).  Image playback stinks on all the available remotes (IMNSHO).  Gotta have pinch and zoom for images.  I use Synology DSPhoto for remote image playback.  I manage my photo library with MC though.
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muzicman0

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2019, 03:43:21 pm »

Tried it several times. Don't like it, no plans to use it. Same with Android. Waiting for 10ft UI android theater view, and TV/video playback without transcoding.
Ditto.  Panel serves no purpose for me. 
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F Ribeiro

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2019, 04:05:56 pm »

JRemote, definitively
JRemote is one of the strongest features of JRiver, and widely known by that.
Here, in another forums (Computeraudiophile as an example), blogs, hi-fi manufactures sites and fórums, YouTube... JRemote is pointed as the best remote app of all.
Others try (Audirvana, Monkeymote, some apps for foobar2000...) but JRemote is second to none.
Panel is a setback. A less user friendly and slower option.
There’s a lot of reasons why I use JRemote over Panel like auto Wake-on-LAN, responsiveness, speed, and other reasons already pointed in this fórum.
I understand that maybe Apple charges a high price for the Apple Store availability.
But that’s a price (I believe) most of the costumers accepts to be reflected in JRemote price.
JRemote is a KEY FEATURE in JRiver.

(English is not my mother language).
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JimH

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2019, 04:30:36 pm »

Please don't turn this into a Panel vs. JRemote discussion.

I'm looking for how often Panel is getting used and what are its disadvantages.  There is a lot of information above on that, and it's helpful.
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AndyU

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2019, 12:48:34 pm »

I’ve tried panel occasionally, briefly. I have JRemote, can’t see any good reason to switch.  You can’t really ask folk not to compare the two. panel may have advantages for you guys as developers, but what advantages does it offer to a JRemote user?
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JimH

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2019, 01:09:38 pm »

Scobie said it best (above:)

I don't mind Panel as one of the options for MC.

I doubt it will ever - or is meant to -  replace JRemote, or the MC interface itself for that matter for any heavy lifting but it is handy to have running on the Family Mac where you can easily make selections without looking for the phone.

It has its kinks that I am sure will be ironed out, but as a lightweight functional addition I think its pretty good for what it does.

JRemote is fine for people who are willing to learn the interface.  Panel is meant for people who don't want to learn.

It's also completely portable and adjusts automatically to screen size. 

These facts may mean nothing to you, but I think there is a clear need.  Panel was the only interface that my wife ever found easy enough to use consistently.

A casual user is important and their needs are different.
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mattkhan

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Re: Panel Evaluation
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2019, 02:40:08 pm »

I don't understand that comment as both panel and jremote fulfil the same basic function (playback of content either locally or in some MC zone) and both have UX foibles that make them slightly obscure to use (at different times because they have different foibles). Having 2 (3 if you count gizmo... which has it's own problems again) such apps makes sense because one is an app and the other is in a browser, having 2 different but similar UIs not so much. The UX point comes courtesy of family members btw (the only interface they can use with no help whatsoever is theatre view)
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