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Author Topic: tagging with tag editor does not change file name ?!  (Read 2614 times)

christoforosc

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tagging with tag editor does not change file name ?!
« on: January 05, 2019, 03:41:36 pm »

Hi,
just recently moved all my audio library from itunes to Mediacenter23.
I did quite some tedious work with the tag-editor in the last days, because quite a few songs were just simply incorrectly named and tagged,  and I just realized now to my surprise that the original file name and respective album location has NOT changed accordingly ?
I tried to find the setting to change that - meaning: change file name (artist/album/track) according to tagging changes! -but I could not find it anywhere and couldnīt find any answers here in the forum as well.
Help appreciated !! ( it is quite annoying to think I have songs correctly tagged but the "wrong" filename stays wrong - it just leaves a total mess and makes this tag editor rather useless)
THX a lot
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Ferdi

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Re: tagging with tag editor does not change file name ?!
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2019, 04:54:11 pm »

It's a feature, not a bug :)  MC puts you in control when and how you want to rename. Hit F6 to bring up the menu. There you can create templates for various name patterns, based on rules you create. For example, I have templates for music files, for movies, for tv shows, for audio books etc.

The flexibility is great. For example, I connect my Sonos system to my NAS, where I have all media stored. Sonos can't play all file types / qualities, and you can only import a limited number of songs to Sonos. To circumvent this, I created a custom field 'Sonos', with allowed values Y and N. When naming my files, all music is sorted into two different directories (music/Y/[album artist] and music/N/[album artist].
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christoforosc

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Re: tagging with tag editor does not change file name ?!
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2019, 07:16:59 pm »

Hi Ferdi, thx for the reply, greatly appreciated

well, it would be a "feature" if there would be the option! to have this in a setting - ( canīt be that hard to code, itunes does it perfectly fine). like this: the need of creating rules on extra tabs is extra work for me and therefore just not user friendly ...

anyway .. I have no idea how I would create such a rule: would you so kind and explain it to me as you would to a 4-year old ;-) ?
I want to re-tag some songs and with this automatically create the same file structure on my hard drive - meaning the file gets re-named and if album changed also that changes .. so on so on
can that be done so I performs these changes each time automatically? - please tell me I donīt have to create an extra rule with F4 for each song
 
F4 is the move/rename/ tab, right? I used that to create rules that my imported playlist find the files at the new location. ( took me forever to find that out how its done .. and for each playlist I had to click and click and click)
THX THX

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blgentry

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Re: tagging with tag editor does not change file name ?!
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2019, 08:52:54 pm »

There is no feature that does the renaming when you change tag properties.  I can understand, having come from itunes, how you might enjoy that feature, or expect it.  But it's not part of MC.  I think it's not there for good reason.  I think they chose not to include it.  Because it might be dangerous or confusing.  But that's just my opinion.

To answer a few of your other questions:

* The Rename Move and Copy tool (RM&C) is invoked via F6, or by right clicking on one or more files and selecting Library Tools > Rename move and copy files .
* There are no settings, rules, etc to do this automatically.  Instead, you do this in groups.  Highlight a file.  Or a group of files.  Or an album.  Or 100 albums.  Then run RM&C.  With one click you select the preset you want.  With another click you tell it to run.  Note that it remembers your last preset selection, so it might only be 1 click!
* To make your own rules and save them as presets, you'll want to read up on the tool a bit.  Here's the Wiki entry:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Rename,_Move,_and_Copy_Files

This is a big tool and it has a lot of fields.  That's because it's designed to do several different jobs that you might want to use it for at some point.  So it looks a little bit overly involved at first.  But trust me it's not all that hard to use once you spend about 10 minutes with it.  RM&C is now one of my favorite MC features.  It's a wonderful tool.

Someone might be able to walk you through specific steps and settings if you talk about what you want to do in specific terms.

Finally, when importing music files, I rarely use this tool.  That's because the ripping program I use has rules for where it puts files, how it names them, and what kind of directory structure it builds.  I told it what I want and it does it.  If you rip CDs with MC, it also has a rule for how it lays out files and folders.  You can find those settings at:
Tools > Options > Files Location > Audio (CD Rips)

So, once you get your files all renamed the way you want, using RM&C, you probably won't have to use it much in the future, as long as you set up your rip naming rules the way you want them.

Good luck to you.

Brian.
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christoforosc

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Re: tagging with tag editor does not change file name ?!
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2019, 03:30:52 am »

@Brian - thank you very much for taking the time to answer.

I played around myself with the rename/move.. function and realized: It just will not do it. thats a real bummer for me.
The tool can do a lot, and I can think of situations where I donīt want a "re-organization" of my underlying file structure.
However, I need to have this option. having the underlying file structure in perfect order is the most important thing to me - for me that is a must have feature in a media player.

Thats a real disappointment now.
oh well; thx again for taking the time to read and answer, greatly appreciated

 
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marko

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Re: tagging with tag editor does not change file name ?!
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2019, 04:35:50 am »

When moving to new software, there is always going to be a learning curve and adjustment period... help us to help you...

Quote
I played around myself with the rename/move.. function and realized: It just will not do it. thats a real bummer for me.
This suggests to me that you have not understood how to use the tool, though I could, of course be completely wrong about that :). This tool is MC's asset management work horse. It has immense power and a lot of work has gone into it over the years to give us the total control over our file structures that we have today.

Maybe there is something unique in your workflow that is causing speedbumps in use of the rename tool?

Quote
having the underlying file structure in perfect order is the most important thing to me
and so too for so many of us. Ultimately, MC has no regard for where on disk a file resides, nor how it is named, as, once imported, all MC needs to know is where that files physically is. From there, it relies on the tagging data it has for that file to present it to you in any way you request of it.

However, myself, and many other MC users, are OCD in regards to having a neat and intuitive, well organised, file folder and naming structure...

Bear in mind that we are all wired differently, all have very different ideas as to how we want our files structured on disk, and the rename tool works for (virtually) all of us.

Unless you have something going on that's seriously left-field, preventing the tool from doing what you want, I'm willing to bet that if you take the time to post the file structure you desire, we can help you to reach your goal.

It is reliant on your tags being correct, but you say you already have that covered, so you're more than half-way there already.

How would you like your files organised on disk, and where is the rename tool letting you down?

-marko

MusicHawk

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Re: tagging with tag editor does not change file name ?!
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2019, 12:39:05 pm »

...For instance, I store all my music files a tree of A-Z folders, the letters being the name of the performing group, or LAST name of the performing person. Within each are the files, named in the pattern ARTIST - TITLE. This is all accomplished selecting the files, one or several or many or even All. Then press F6 > Enter. Done.

I don't need to start with anything except the ability to select the files in MC. Usually my new-to-organize music files are in various folders and drives on my system. I just make them visible in MC (sometimes by navigating to their physical location, or dragging them into MC). Then I tag as desired. Happy with that, I select the files, do the two key presses, and all the files get renamed and moved and I'm done with them.

Rename/Move/Copy is also a bit smart. If I'm not sure which files need to be processed, I select many or even All, then pressing F6 > Enter. MC moves the files that need it, and renames the files that need it, but also skips files that are already in the right place with the right name. This is all visible upon pressing F6, because MC shows a list of all the changes it is going to do, and not do. Review if desired, then press Enter (because the default button is "OK"). It's very simple, and quite fast.

The magic comes from setting up the Rename/Move tool to know how I want files named, and in what folders. This is a one-time step, set-and-forget. But because it is powerful, it requires proper set-up, which is a tiny bit delicate to get right. But help is right here.

As Marko suggests, explain what you need -- how your files should be named, and what Directories folder arrangement you want, including an example of the full path with drive letter and upper folders (Base Path). If not obvious, explain how your desired names and folders relate to the tags you use.

You'll likely get fast response from one or several forum members on exactly what to enter in the Filename and Directories sections.

Once you get the result you want, you might never want or need to touch it again. I'm still using the Rename/Move/Copy settings I created more than a decade ago, they get transferred to newer MCs when I update.

Rename/Move/Copy can do more elaborate naming and moving, should the need arise. For instance, my rules do a bit more than I said. My Directories Rule uses a particular tag to steer each file to either my Major music tracks folder tree, or a tree of Minor tracks that are rarely if ever played (Major/Minor was originally implemented to copy only the Main songs collection to iPod and similar, these days to copy to my laptop for mobile use). The point in mentioning is that MC can make naming/moving decisions based on tags, handling each file individually.

Also, my Rules add a filename suffix to distinguish multiple files of the same artist-title. I force file/folder names to all lowercase, and a rule truncates filenames at a max length (these to assure compatibility with various OS platforms). Most users have no need to do anything like this, but if/when, MC has the power to do it with just a couple of clicks.

Tagging is the big big task because it is manual and personal. But once you've done that, Rename and Move is automated, super-simple once your Rules are specified.
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Managing my media with JRiver since Media Jukebox 8 (maybe earlier), currently use Media Center for Audio/Music and Photos/Videos.
My career in media spans Radio, TV, Print, Photography, Music, Film, Online, Live, Advertising, as producer, director, writer, performer, editor, engineer, executive, owner. An exhausting but amazing ride.

christoforosc

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Re: tagging with tag editor does not change file name ?!
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2019, 03:33:17 pm »

Hey Marko, Hawk .... thanks for your answers, itīs nice to actually have people reading and answering to questions in this forum .. big THX.

I am fully aware that working with software like MC, being so incredibly feature rich, does take a learning curve and cannot be always dead easy to use - too many functions (which is good !! ) in order to be totally easy. I have used MC for years now for my movie collection, streaming to ma home cinema - for Music: I only used selected sets to stream via MC.
@Marko: you are absolutely right - I do NOT understand what the full potential of the "rename/move.." tool is.

my music collection: some 15.000 tracks:
- mainly CD rips ( all perfectly fine organized )
- hundreds of DJ - Mix sets, Studio recordings ( they needed special attention anyway,  - but all fine there)
- many hundreds of single songs, I donīt even remember how I got most of them: and thats where the mess is. partially wrong filenames / wrong tags and so on ... I manually check these songs on databases (YABD, Gracenote...) and I realize ... it is a totally different song. - so that needs fixing.

the function that would I enjoy to see introduced:
I use the Tag Editor to change the tags of a selected track (or album) and when done: IN THE BACKGROUND (without needing me to do an extra click into a tool in order to apply a rule, because I donīt know how to create such a rule and donīt want to spend time figuring out how to do it)  these files get renamed and moved according to the selected way of organizing them: i.e.: Drive:/"Music folder or whatever"/ Artist (or Compilation) / Album / Trackname/ track# ...  - I would love to see a check box within the rename/move tool: "Do you want MC to organize your files according to your tags"    ... check box/ or uncheck box.

I hope its clearer now what I mean: ?!
and I am still thankful, if anybody could tell me how exactly I create that rule.
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Spike1000

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Re: tagging with tag editor does not change file name ?!
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2019, 05:21:11 pm »

and I just realized now to my surprise that the original file name and respective album location has NOT changed accordingly

Changing the album location is a BIG ASK for any tag editing function as that's a move not just a re-tag or re-name. However, MC views are based on tags not the file location so it really doesn't matter where the file is as you never need to look in the file tree for them. So if the tags are good, the views are good, MC's database is good and the file location doesn't actually matter. That's one of the key features of MC; it can find, display, and play your music no matter where it is if the tags are good.

Spike

RoderickGI

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Re: tagging with tag editor does not change file name ?!
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2019, 06:39:44 pm »

I donīt know how to create such a rule and donīt want to spend time figuring out how to do it

There lies the problem. You want to move away from horrible iTunes, which many people do because they are sick of the restricted functionality and being forced to do things a certain way, and then you don't want to invest the time to learn how to use a better solution. Are you a Millennial?

I would love to see a check box within the rename/move tool: "Do you want MC to organize your files according to your tags"    ... check box/ or uncheck box.

It's called a "Preset", which is much like a template. It is in the bottom left corner of the RM&CF function. There some predefined Presets based on the settings in MC Options. Sure, other than that you need to learn a little about MC, and set up RM&CF the way you want to use it for these files, and then save those settings as a Preset, to be recalled at any time you desire. You may even get help on the forum to set up those Presets. Again, explain how you want files named and stored.

Spike1000's post is spot on; MC relies on tags, not file locations, and that is a cognitive shift for many people. But if you have been using MC for years you should know the basics and be able to cope with that.

The only exception to Spike's comment that "only tags matter, and not file locations" is that for Compilation Albums with Multiple Artists, and no single "Album Artist", it is better to store all tracks from those compilations in one sub-directory, so that MC knows they are one Album without too much effort or comprise in tagging. With the RM&CF function, that is very easy to do.
Read this carefully. Three times. https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Rename,_Move,_and_Copy_Files Yes, read it three times, at least.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
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The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
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  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
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