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Author Topic: JRiver APE Encoder issue [Solved]  (Read 5117 times)

sygnus21

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JRiver APE Encoder issue [Solved]
« on: May 13, 2019, 02:47:40 pm »

Iíve got JRiver Media Center 24, but also use Plex as my media server.

Issue... Iíve ripped hundreds of CDís to JRiver via APE through JRiverís encoder and never had an issues with album metadata. However, I've recently discovered any CDs ripped through JRiver using APE are missing track numbers, thus the CD's song are listed alphabetically order. No issue if the CD's are viewed in JRiver; viewed in Plex, no track numbers. Yeah, I can manually fix this by adding the track numbers, but that's over half my collection of a thousand CD's. Anyway this appears to be an APE encoder issue within JRiver. Why do I say that?

Well if I rip CDís in DBPoweramp using the APE plug-in, and open the files in Plex, the track numbers are included and the CD is arranged accordingly track wise. If I encode in JRiver using APE, the track numbers are missing.

Bottom line: Plex does not include track numbers if I rip CD's in JRiver using APE, but does show track numbers if I use DBPoweramp's APE encoder. So my question (and issue)Ö. whatís going on with JRiver's APE encoder??? Am I missing a setting?

OS is Windows 10 x64 (1809). Also, no issues if I use flac, but I don't like flac and prefer APE.

Help?
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Matt

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2019, 03:19:27 pm »

I rip to APE as well and the track numbers are all in my tags (viewing Action Window > Tag > Tag Dump).

Check Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields... > Track # and make sure "Save in file tags (when possible)" is checked.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

sygnus21

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2019, 03:39:08 pm »

Again, they work inside of JRiver, but are you using Plex???

Sorry, misread your post. Let me check out those settings and get back at you later. Away from my main PC right now. Thanks
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sygnus21

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2019, 06:36:22 pm »

Check Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields... > Track # and make sure "Save in file tags (when possible)" is checked.

I've checked the above and that box is checked. Anyway, as I stated in my first post, track numbers show in JRiver, but they don't in Plex, even though the files are ripped in JRiver.

Looks like I'll have to figure out something because going through 500 CD's and manually inputting track numbers is time consuming and a royal pain in the Ö moving forward it looks like I'll have to stick to DBPoweramp for my APE rips.
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Matt

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2019, 06:40:17 pm »

I've checked the above and that box is checked. Anyway, as I stated in my first post, track numbers show in JRiver, but they don't in Plex, even though the files are ripped in JRiver.

Looks like I'll have to figure out something because going through 500 CD's and manually inputting track numbers is time consuming and a royal pain in the Ö moving forward it looks like I'll have to stick to DBPoweramp for my APE rips.

Let's just figure it out.

Check that this is enabled:
Options > General > Update tags when file info changes

Then pick some APE files and do right-click > Library Tools > Update Tags (from library).

That should force the track # to get written.  Check after that and see if it's there.

We'll figure this out and maybe even learn something along the way.

Thanks.

(p.s. I'm also the author of Monkey's Audio)
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

sygnus21

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2019, 08:31:48 pm »

Let's just figure it out.

Check that this is enabled:
Options > General > Update tags when file info changes

Then pick some APE files and do right-click > Library Tools > Update Tags (from library).

That should force the track # to get written.  Check after that and see if it's there.

We'll figure this out and maybe even learn something along the way.

Thanks.

(p.s. I'm also the author of Monkey's Audio)

Matt, I need you to understand there is no track number issue in JRiver. The track numbers are there.

The issue is, again, if I rip a CD in JRiver, but view in Plex, the track numbers are missing. There is no issue track number wise in JRiver. Regardless, I did try those setting and all is good in JRiver. Still the same issue in Plex.  That said, I did notice something in JRiver under the file name heading where CD's ripped in DBPoweramp show track numbers in the file name, where CD's ripped in JRiver using APE does NOT. See image....

And yeah, it helps knowing you're the author of Monkey's audio. And thanks, I really appreciate the help :)

Edited to show the Boney James CD in Plex without track numbers (ripped in JRiver). Yet, the Fauna Flash CD ripped through DBPoweramp includes track number when viewed in Plex.

Thoughts?
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Matt

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2019, 07:50:00 am »

I almost wonder if the "Track" field just isn't being read out of the APE tag by Plex?  Because I see us writing it no problem.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

sygnus21

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2019, 10:30:38 am »

I almost wonder if the "Track" field just isn't being read out of the APE tag by Plex?  Because I see us writing it no problem.

I might believe that if it wasn't for the fact that Plex IS reading APE's track tags if I rip CD's through DBPoweramp, but it's obviously not reading them if I rip through JRiver. Did you review the images I submitted? Maybe they'll give you a clue?
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Matt

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2019, 10:51:02 am »

I might believe that if it wasn't for the fact that Plex IS reading APE's track tags if I rip CD's through DBPoweramp, but it's obviously not reading them if I rip through JRiver. Did you review the images I submitted? Maybe they'll give you a clue?

Would you be willing to send me a copy of a file ripped with DBPoweramp and another ripped with MC?  I'll look at the tags and see if I can figure out a difference.

I'm matt at jriver dot com.

Thanks.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

sygnus21

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2019, 04:43:44 pm »

Would you be willing to send me a copy of a file ripped with DBPoweramp and another ripped with MC?  I'll look at the tags and see if I can figure out a difference.

I'm matt at jriver dot com.

Thanks.

No problem but they're going to be large files - between the two files that's 60 meg. How should I get them to you?
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Matt

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2019, 05:51:48 pm »

If email doesn't work, you could try Dropbox.  Thanks.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Matt

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2019, 06:47:06 pm »

Thanks for the files.  One has track one and one has track ten.

I import into Media Center and they both have a track number.

They also both have a track number tag in the Tag Dump.

I'm almost wondering if the issue is Plex?

Thanks.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

sygnus21

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2019, 08:13:00 pm »

I'm almost wondering if the issue is Plex?

Yes, those track numbers are right. Anyway if Plex is reading the track numbers from DBP, but not from JRiver, I'm not sure what the issue with Plex would be? Nor am I sure I could truly blame Plex.

Honestly I think it would help to give Plex a try to see what I'm really going through. There is a 15 day trial version. Perhaps Plex doesn't like the APE encoder in JRiver?

Anyway it is a weird one, and frankly extremely annoying at this time; especially since half of my thousand albums ripped in JRiver are encoded in APE. I started in flac, but once I listened to a few APE files, I've been using APE since then. Having just recently setup a Plex server is when I found this issue.  I did try the Plex forums, but post has been ignored so...

Anyway now I know there's an issue and what to do so moving forward I'll stick with DBPoweramp. If I wasn't using Plex this wouldn't be an issue, but I use Plex for my mobile needs, and JRiver for my home listening.

Thanks.
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Matt

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2019, 07:56:14 am »

When I import the files into Plex, they just show with [Unknown Artist] and [Unknown Album].

I think Plex must not be reading the APEv2 tags?  I saw requests for them to add support searching online, but no idea the result.

Here's an example of a post about it:
https://forums.plex.tv/t/support-ape-media-tags/320523

Using the APE SDK makes reading the tags pretty trivial, so not sure why they haven't done it yet.

Thanks.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

sygnus21

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2019, 10:48:13 am »

When I import the files into Plex, they just show with [Unknown Artist] and [Unknown Album].

As you can see, I've a number of CD's here and I'd say only about 1 percent have shown up with [Unknown Artist] and [Unknown Album] which I then manually fix. However, all the CD's ripped through JRiver's APE encoder have no track numbers when viewed in Plex. That's currently half my collection.

As I said in the post above didn't know this was (was going to be) an issue until I installed Plex. Knowing what I know now, my best course of action is to stick with DBPoweramp for APE encoding.

I know you're the author of APE so perhaps you can tell me why tracks numbers are seen by Plex when using APE from DBPoweramp, but not seen when using JRiver's APE encoder? How does that work? One the other hand there are no track number issues with CD's ripped in JRiver using the flac encoder.  That is Plex sees track numbers from JRiver when using flac. It sees track numbers from DBpoweramp when using APE. It does NOT see track numbers when using APE from JRiver.  With that, the issue is NOT solved!
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Matt

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2019, 11:21:21 am »

I know you're the author of APE so perhaps you can tell me why tracks numbers are seen by Plex when using APE from DBPoweramp, but not seen when using JRiver's APE encoder?

APE files also support ID3v1.1 tags and it's possible DBPowerAmp is writing in that format and Plex is supporting it.

But that doesn't change the fact that Plex simply does not support the modern APE tagging standard.  You need to contact Plex if you want anything to happen.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

sygnus21

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2019, 04:58:10 pm »

APE files also support ID3v1.1 tags and it's possible DBPowerAmp is writing in that format and Plex is supporting it.

Not a programmer but that sounds plausible to me.

But that doesn't change the fact that Plex simply does not support the modern APE tagging standard.  You need to contact Plex if you want anything to happen.

I don't know what Plex does or doesn't support I just know it serves my needs. Anyway the Plex support forum was a waste, but I now understand this quirk and how to deal with it.

Thanks for taking the time to look into it though. Much appreciated.

Peace:)
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sygnus21

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue - not solved
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2019, 12:13:04 pm »

Update: looking through Plex's forum I've tried all the suggestions to get track numbers to show with files ripped in JRiver using APE and each one failed. Mostly due to the fact that my setup is in accordance with stated suggestions. Bottom line is Plex simply refuses to recognize track numbers from CD's ripped in JRiver using APE. No issue whatsoever if using DBPoweramp's APE plugin.

Included are two images of my music files in JRiver. One shows files ripped in APE from both JRiver and DBP (DBPoweramp). Notice the files ripped in JRiver show no track numbers under filename. Yet both those ripped in flac (using JRiver) and those ripped in DBP do show track numbers. So there's definitely an issue with APE in JRiver.

My hope is this issue is looked into further and hopefully solved in future iterations of JRiver Media Center. For me I'll have to stick with DBP if I want track numbers shown in Plex.

Peace  8)
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JimH

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue [Solved]
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2019, 12:28:58 pm »

Both of your images show track #.  Are you talking about the fact that the name itself doesn't have a track # ?

06-Jean Luc .... ?

That's normal and the way it should be unless you've chosen to embed track #'s in the file name.

That's an old way of attaching track #'s, not much used anymore.

One thing you can be sure of is that MC works absolutely perfectly with APE.  Matt is the author of Ape and one of the developers of MC.
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sygnus21

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue - Not Solved
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2019, 03:15:25 pm »

Both of your images show track #.  Are you talking about the fact that the name itself doesn't have a track # ?

YES!!! And that's causing issues in Plex. Apparently Plex needs the track number in the file name just like it would be if I were encoding in flac under JRiver. Look at the Pink Floyd image again, and notice the track number in the file name when ripping with flac under JRiver. Plex has no issue seeing track numbers in that format (track # in title).


That's normal and the way it should be unless you've chosen to embed track #'s in the file name.

That's an old way of attaching track #'s, not much used anymore.

I can assure you I've not "chosen to embed track #'s in the file name" in anyway. Insert CD, Rip and go. And I've seen a few rip programs using track#'s in file names... JRIver for one when ripping with the flac encoder!!!

One thing you can be sure of is that MC works absolutely perfectly with APE.  Matt is the author of Ape and one of the developers of MC.

Yes... that would be extremely true seeing the program is embedded in MC. No argument there. But that's not the point.

And yes, I'm aware Matt is the author of APE. He mentioned it, and I acknowledged it in an earlier post.

And let's be clear. I'm not here argue or cast blame. I'm simply pointing out an issue and hoping we can solve it. I use both Plex and MC. I use Plex because it can stream my media to any device and have it played regardless of format. At home I use JR MC to listen to my music ripped in APE because they aren't being transcoded and sound much better. So, road, Plex, home, JR MC. I just want to insure whatever encoding format I use, Plex can read the files to include track numbers. This isn't happening when ripping via APE in JR MC. That's the issue.

Thanks.
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JimH

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue [Solved]
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2019, 04:12:24 pm »

Tools > Options > File Location > File Naming.  Add track number there.

It's odd that Plex doesn't read the track # from the tag.
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sygnus21

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue [Solved]
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2019, 05:50:33 pm »

Tools > Options > File Location > File Naming.  Add track number there.

It's odd that Plex doesn't read the track # from the tag.

That worked!!! See Plex image below.

Unfortunately though, it does nothing for those CD's already ripped via APE. Those will still need to be re-ripped.

With that, question ? - Even though I've never used that option before, how is it tracks ripped in flac included track numbers in the file name, but APE didn't. That seems like an odd quirk and was obviously the source of my issue.

It's odd that Plex doesn't read the track # from the tag.

From what I read at the Plex forums it requires a file format that includes the track# in the file name. Probably to insure any device it streams music to will have track numbers (just a guess). Anyway, this wasn't happening until I included the track names per your suggestion. It's odd to me though that there was no issue with flac files without said suggestion.

At any rate I guess we can now call this solved :)

Thank you. And thanks to both you and Matt for your patience :)
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JimH

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue [Solved]
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2019, 06:09:37 pm »

Try the Tool called Rename, Move, or Copy.  You should be able to rename the files.  Try a few before you do very many.
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sygnus21

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue [Solved]
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2019, 08:44:32 pm »

Thanks but it's probably just quicker and easier to re-rip the CD's. I actually tried adding the track numbers to the files in Plex but that's excruciatingly time consuming.

I'll just re-rip those I want and delete those I no longer listen to.

Thanks.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue [Solved]
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2019, 04:49:40 am »

Thinking out loud here, but perhaps dbPoweramp and Plex are using an older version of the APE encoder/decoder whereas MC24 is using a newer version? Maybe that's the source of the issue?
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sygnus21

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Re: JRiver APE Encoder issue [Solved]
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2019, 10:17:24 am »

Thinking out loud here, but perhaps dbPoweramp and Plex are using an older version of the APE encoder/decoder whereas MC24 is using a newer version? Maybe that's the source of the issue?

No, that wasn't the issue as discussed above.
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