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[audunth]

Any news on decoding Atmos or DTS:X and passing on to a multichannel DAC/soundcard, so that DSP in MC can be used? I read there was some new Atmos support in a Windows 10 update...

[WeeHappyPixie]

Hi,

As far as I know to get Dolby Atmos on Windows 10 you need to download and install the Dolby Access app from the Microsoft Store.https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/dolby-access/9n0866fs04w8 It say's it's a free download and if you are using passthrough to an amp then it is. If you want to use Dolby Atmos with Headphones you need to buy it.

I don't think MC will be able to decode it due to the license restrictions. Same goes for DTS-X.

John

[retro]

Is there anyone working on this, like the ffmpeg developers..?

Atmos analog out would be a dream come true..

[tij]

there are always ppl working on cracking these things ... dont hold your breath as they dont get paid for this and do it in their spare time

bringing 3D to htpc took ages ... and thats with standard available to the public

Atmos, X, Vision ... specs are not even available to public

AND ... with Atmos and X ... its not just decoding the signal ... but proprietry calculation of sound for each speaker based on object location and speaker location ... reverse engineering that wont be easy

so you will never able to store ATMOS or X as PCM as output of each speaker will depend on their location relative to listener

god darn DV also has proprietry calculation :/

[zoom+slomo]

there are always ppl working on cracking these things ... dont hold your breath as they dont get paid for this and do it in their spare time

bringing 3D to htpc took ages ... and thats with standard available to the public

Atmos, X, Vision ... specs are not even available to public

AND ... with Atmos and X ... its not just decoding the signal ... but proprietry calculation of sound for each speaker based on object location and speaker location ... reverse engineering that wont be easy

so you will never able to store ATMOS or X as PCM as output of each speaker will depend on their location relative to listener.

Thanks for answering my questions about MC’s decoding of Atmos and/or DTS X, which sadly will take years if it ever happens at all.

But I’m no less thrilled by MC’s ability to decode a decrypted BD movie’s DTS-HD MA track to PCM and output the multi channel signal via USB to a wonderful sounding multi DAC like this one.

https://www.exasound.com/Blog/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/179/Configuring-JRiver-Media-Center-for-Windows-for-Bitperfect-ASIO-Playback-with-exaSound-DACs.aspx

And which also apparently facilitates seamless DIRAC room correction implementation.

https://www.exasound.com/Blog/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1241/Multichannel-DAC--ExaSound-E38--by-Frans-Keylard-Hi-Res-Digital-Audio-Discovery-Group.aspx

Once cinephiles bite the bullet and move from playing DVDs and BDs on hardware players to MC via their desktops, they can jump clear over the HDMI and BD Associations’ (obviously representing the CE industry and Hollywood respectively) road blocking of USB input/output connectivity, and thereby enjoy arguably far better sound quality than most AVRs and all but the best HT processors via audiophile grade multi DACs.

[audunth]

so you will never able to store ATMOS or X as PCM as output of each speaker will depend on their location relative to listener

That is what Dolby TrueHD is (on Atmos discs), an extra sound track stored as separate channels, for decoding on equipment that does not support Atmos decoding, like MC. So why would anyone try to decode Atmos and store it as PCM when a 6 or 8 channel soundtrack is already there? As you said, Atmos will be decoded and separated into channels, which in turn are sent to each speaker,  specifically for your configuration. So a stored multichannel PCM track from Atmos will have very little value because it will only work on your specific system.

What we're looking for is an Atmos decoder, which now exists in Atmos compatible recievers and processors, for Windows. So that if I for example have a 12 channel system set up, the Atmos decoder will separate the track into each of the speakers based on the configuration I have set up and then send it to a multichannel DAC or sound card, which is what the receivers/processors to today when they get an Atmos signal.

And as with all previous hurdles, which at the time also were predicted "oh it is impossible, will never happen, will take many many years" etc. , like HDCP, 3D, Blu-ray menus among others, it is just a matter of time before a HTPC can decode Atmos just like any receiver on the market. Just wait and see. Usually it starts with a software company getting a licence to make a decoder into their software, like PowerDVD and Total Media Theatre have done in the past. (Remember when we had to copy a DLL from a TMT installation into some MC folder to make MC decode DTS-HD?)

[rec head]

Thanks for answering my questions about MC’s decoding of Atmos and/or DTS X, which sadly will take years if it ever happens at all.

But I’m no less thrilled by MC’s ability to decode a decrypted BD movie’s DTS-HD MA track to PCM and output the multi channel signal via USB to a wonderful sounding multi DAC like this one.

https://www.exasound.com/Blog/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/179/Configuring-JRiver-Media-Center-for-Windows-for-Bitperfect-ASIO-Playback-with-exaSound-DACs.aspx

And which also apparently facilitates seamless DIRAC room correction implementation.

https://www.exasound.com/Blog/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1241/Multichannel-DAC--ExaSound-E38--by-Frans-Keylard-Hi-Res-Digital-Audio-Discovery-Group.aspx

Once cinephiles bite the bullet and move from playing DVDs and BDs on hardware players to MC via their desktops, they can jump clear over the HDMI and BD Associations’ (obviously representing the CE industry and Hollywood respectively) road blocking of USB input/output connectivity, and thereby enjoy arguably far better sound quality than most AVRs and all but the best HT processors via audiophile grade multi DACs.

I don't think there is a need to link to that soundcard in every post on every forum. It makes your posts look like spam.

[tij]

That is what Dolby TrueHD is (on Atmos discs), an extra sound track stored as separate channels, for decoding on equipment that does not support Atmos decoding, like MC. So why would anyone try to decode Atmos and store it as PCM when a 6 or 8 channel soundtrack is already there? As you said, Atmos will be decoded and separated into channels, which in turn are sent to each speaker,  specifically for your configuration. So a stored multichannel PCM track from Atmos will have very little value because it will only work on your specific system.

What we're looking for is an Atmos decoder, which now exists in Atmos compatible recievers and processors, for Windows. So that if I for example have a 12 channel system set up, the Atmos decoder will separate the track into each of the speakers based on the configuration I have set up and then send it to a multichannel DAC or sound card, which is what the receivers/processors to today when they get an Atmos signal.

And as with all previous hurdles, which at the time also were predicted "oh it is impossible, will never happen, will take many many years" etc. , like HDCP, 3D, Blu-ray menus among others, it is just a matter of time before a HTPC can decode Atmos just like any receiver on the market. Just wait and see. Usually it starts with a software company getting a licence to make a decoder into their software, like PowerDVD and Total Media Theatre have done in the past. (Remember when we had to copy a DLL from a TMT installation into some MC folder to make MC decode DTS-HD?)

You have it other way around ... TrueHD (or EAC3 for Netflix) is the main soundtrack ... Atmos is just metadata specifying object location and movement ... then based on your speaker configuration, Atmos decoder will calculate (not decode) object sound that should be coming out of each speaker AND add those to main TrueHD soundtrack

And I already did state why it’s pointless to store Atmos as PCM if you read my post carefully

This time it might take much longer to do Atmos or Vision as Dolby is not licensing these to any PC/Mac players (even PowerDVD don’t support these as they cannot get license for it) ... PC/Mac has lots of tools that help reverse engineering ... without those tools this might not be as easy

[audunth]

You have it other way around ... TrueHD (or EAC3 for Netflix) is the main soundtrack ... Atmos is just metadata specifying object location and movement ... then based on your speaker configuration, Atmos decoder will calculate (not decode) object sound that should be coming out of each speaker AND add those to main TrueHD soundtrack

Sure, I don't know the technical details of it, but it doesn't really matter, does it...

Not saying it'll be easy, but my money's on it'll be cracked sooner or later. And when it is, I hope MC will support it

[jmone]

I see there are 3 parts to solve:
1: Ability to extract the Meta Data from Atmos / DTS:X etc tracks (eg some new feature in FFMPEG).  At present FFMPEG can not even distinguish if a TrueHD or DTS-MA tack even has Atmos or DTS:X extensions and it has been like this for years even though MediaInfo can detect and report the Atmos or DTS:X Stream Info.  Have this feature in FFMPEG would be a good start as we could then determine when to bitstream and when to decode.
2: DSP to process this Meta Data (eg MC).  I'm sure if the meta data was available then MC's DSP could take advantage of it with dev effort.
3: HW to render then amplify the signal for each required speaker.  HDMI 2.0 onwards can theoretically support up to 32ch...but I don't think we have any GPUs, AVRs etc that support more than 8 channels over HDMI.  So to replicate my existing 7.2.4 setup, I'd need 12ch's of DACs and Amps to replicate my existing receiver (and I can not use my existing AVR or PowerAmp as they don't have 12 inputs).  This is going to be very expensive.

But you never know!

Thanks
Nathan

[TheShoe]

bit confused on your post.

if i bitstream over hdmi from MC to my Marantz, the Marantz sees Dolby Atmos or DTS:X

while i don’t have 7.1.4, are you stating that this is currently impossible to support?  IIRC, i downloaded something from the MS store which enables Atmos in the sound properties.   this is not their headphones gimmick.

[jmone]

Ahhh it is the design on Atmos/DTS:X.  These formats are based on TrueHD and DTS-MA (respectively) which in our HT world supports up to a max of 8 channels of 24-bit/96 kHz audio.  Atmos/DTS:X is a meta data extension added to the TrueHD / DTS-MA tracks that allows an AVR/Processor to create the extra channels for each of the connected speakers (could be dozens!).  So you are still only bitstreaming 8ch max (+ meta data).  The AVR does the magic of expand that to the total number of speakers you have (in may case 7.2.4 or 13 total channels).

Back to the transport part:  Although, HDMI V2.x can support more than 8Ch, this seems to be the limit for the current crop of GPUs and AVRs over HDMI.  So even if we could have MC decoding the Atmos/DTS:X on the PC, I'd still need some way of now getting all 13 channels to my AV Gear. 

[TheShoe]

thanks.   i lost track of this being about decoding, not bit streaming 😉


details details.....

[etc6849]

Plenty of ways to output more than 8 channels from a PC with a single card or one of the dozen or so pro audio external audio interfaces:

For example, some PCI-E cards available:
https://archiv.rme-audio.de/en/products/hdspe_aes.php

https://www.soundpure.com/p/lynx-aes16e-pci-express-aes-ebu-interfaces/1646

You would then run the digital outputs to your choice of DACs or speaker processors, and get many times the performance of any AVR and performance on par with $30k processors for a fraction of the cost.

I have RME AES32 pci-e card sending AES (digital output) to several Xilica speaker processors.  Far superior to any AVP I can afford.

thanks.   i lost track of this being about decoding, not bit streaming 😉


details details.....

[NiToNi]

Yes but you are not sending decoded Atmos audio out to your speaker processors, are you? That’s the problem.

[RoderickGI]

There has been no change in status reported anywhere. No solution in the foreseeable future.

The only way to get multichannel PCM out of ATMOS now would be using a licenced hardware solution, and I doubt there are any consumer-level devices that will output digital audio. They would be limited to analogue audio output to prevent copying. I haven't looked though. Of course, there must be professional-level hardware that would do it.

[JimH]

Post removed was spam.

[mojave]

The only way to get multichannel PCM out of ATMOS now would be using a licenced hardware solution, and I doubt there are any consumer-level devices that will output digital audio. They would be limited to analogue audio output to prevent copying. I haven't looked though. Of course, there must be professional-level hardware that would do it.

There are consumer products that will output digital audio. I have 24 channels of Dolby Atmos decoding (13.1.10) and can output 32 channels of PCM via AVB from my StormAudio ISP. There are also 32 channels of AES/EBU output available with an optional output board. Next spring there will be an AES67 card with 32 in/32 out. Trinnov is another consumer product with digital outputs.

[RoderickGI]

I stand corrected. There are consumer level devices that will output digital audio from ATMOS sources.

But the decoding is still done in a licenced hardware device. Plus it seems that most of the outputs from that device are analogue:
AUDIO OUTPUTS
16ch, 24ch or 32ch analog (XLR) - optional
32ch digital (AES/EBU or AVB) - optional
1x XLR Analog (Stereo downmix)

I'm assuming that you have the StormAudio ISP MK2 based on the number of channels you are processing. I'm also assuming that AVB means Audio Video Bridging. With a quick look I didn't find a User Manual for the StormAudio ISP MK2.

Oh. I just looked up the price. US$19,100 for the 32 channel AVB version. I guess that is audiophile consumer price level, but not mine, or most people. Plus comparing the functionality to a US$60 PC application is just a little unfair.

[mojave]

This thread is hidden in the MC25 subforum so I doubt many are reading theses posts. 

I own the StormAudio MK1 with the 24 channel decoder board upgrade and upgraded HDMI board. I also own the MK2. I also own a 4 channel analog output board and the AVB output board. The ISPs all come with at least 16 analog (analogue) outputs and two XLRs for stereo downmix for a headphone amp or other zone. When digital output is used, the 16 analog outputs can still be used for a second theater or other zone.

Yes, AVB is Audio Video Bridging, but it is always just called AVB. I've been using it for 5 years now.

I've been PC only as my source since 1989 or 1990. I finally bought the ISP because I'm fully aware of the limitations of JRiver and Atmos/DTS:X. It is the only device on the market that gives me this capability plus the flexibility like that offered by JRiver. I design high end home theaters so I'm a dealer for StormAudio.

[RoderickGI]

I design high end home theaters so I'm a dealer for StormAudio.

That's good to know. 

The StormAudio looks like a nice bit of kit, but definitely a high end theatre component.