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[stricko]

Hi there, I've been using my time while locked down to rebuild my HTPCs. Clean out the debris of various projects and try to fix some long standing irritations. So I have clean W10 Pro 64 environment, all drivers up to date (inc Nvidia), fresh install of MC26 client. Only other bits are Advanced MCE Remote Mapper and WinHotkey. Output is to a 4k projector, I have W10 scaling at 200% and Theater View at 100%

I'm seeing 2 strange things happening;

1. When I start MC26, its set to open in Theater View, and normally works fine. Occasionally, maybe 1 time in 10, It opens in Theatre view, but the layout is messed up. Text is maybe twice the size, but the borders have not been scaled up as much, so the text overlaps the borders.

2. In Standard view, when I click on a menu item, the sub menu appears, but with an odd transparency effect. Visible through the menu is a reduced scale section of the MC26 window. I have Windows Color Transparency set to off. Is this a feature that I can switch off, or an issue.

Cheers

Oh, and in attempting to resolve the above, I've just gone to uninstall/reinstall MC26. The uninstall window doesn't recognise the windows scaling value.

[stricko]

The Theatre View scaling issue is now happening each time i open Mc26. But if i switch to standard view and them back to theatre view, it stops

[wer]

What happens if you set Windows scaling to 100% ?

[stricko]

OK, a tiny bit of context. This has all come about as part of my ongoing quest for my HTPC to behave as I want when it comes out of standby. In short, the PC is going into standby from a batch script that includes a "mc26.exe /close" command, and waking with a batch script that includes a "mc26.exe /library {library name}" command. My MC26 is set up to open in Theatre View by default.

Testing results are slightly odd. All are with windows scaling at 200%, Theatre View at 100%

Full reboot - scaling Ok, as expected, but doesn't use the batch stuff as described above
HTPC only standby/resume  - scaling OK, just using the HTPC remote power button
Full AV system standby - Normal situation, AV receiver, projector and htpc all go through standby/wake. Scaling problem occurs

To answer the previous question, with Windows scaling at 100%, the results are the same, with the problem still occuring. In Full AV system standby, Theatre View screens are incorrectly scaled. More specifically, the boxes are smaller, suggesting that they are scaling properly, but the text is still oversized, the same size as in the 200% test, are therefore overlapping the boxes even more.

If I close MC, and reopen it, scaling is ok

[wer]

You can use this in your script to force it to switch back and forth:

mc26 /mode standard
mc26 /sleep 2000
mc26 /mode theater

I used a script like this, running nightly, to reset a theater view that became unresponsive (black screen) after extended inactivity.

[RoderickGI]

Full AV system standby - Normal situation, AV receiver, projector and htpc all go through standby/wake. Scaling problem occurs

This is probably an HDMI handshaking problem, give that all devices in your HDMI chain are waking from standby.

You can either find out the startup sequence of devices that prevents the problem, and then make sure the devices always start in that sequence using a programmable remote, triggered powerboards or similar, or you can use one of those HDMI healing devices that will always tell the HTPC/MC what resolutions etc. (EDID data) to use for the display.

The best wake up sequence is probably the projector, receiver, then HTPC, but you will need to research that. There have been some discussions about this in the past, for projectors specifically. I think Jmone described what he had to do once.

[stricko]

Mmmm. I already use a programmable remote, so it won't be much of a job to resequence the wake commands.

I accept that this might circumvent the problem, but isn't there an underlying issue that MC is incorrectly building a screen. If EDID data is being used to calculate the relative size of the different elements, shouldn't the same data, at the same exact moment in time, produce consistent, compatible results. Sorry, a bit pedantic, but as someone who really only uses Theatre View, I sometimes feel as if it is the poor relation in the MC family. It doesn't seem to have changed much in several releases.

Thanks for the help

[wer]

EDID and HDMI handshaking is out of MC's purview; it's the responsibility of your display adapter.  The graphics driver tells windows a display is present or not.  It tells Windows the resolution, refresh rate, and color depth.  That's what MC knows.  And that information can change rapidly and inconsistently when passing in and out of sleep and when HDMI handshaking.

HDMI handshaking has been a problem throughout the industry for years.  Computer video cards often have issues in that regard.

I myself use a DrHDMI dongle to assuage the angst of my AMD graphics card when things happen like my TV being turned off while the PC remains on and other such things.

MS, AMD, and NVidia are not going to fix issues like that because they just don't care.  Many consumer electronics companies have problems with some of their products handshaking with the products of other companies.  That's what you get when you keep changing a spec that's supposed to be a global standard in an industry that wants to put out new products every year.

It's the world we live in, and it's why the market for HDMI processors, adapters, and converters exists.

MC is not perfect.  Theater View is even less perfect.  You are 100% right that it is sorely neglected.  And your graphics card/driver may have issues of its own.  And Windows, and Windows PC hardware, have issues with sleep mode.  If you insist on having your HTPC sleep, I'm telling you to expect some issues you could otherwise avoid.

My HTPC runs 24/7.  If I had it sleep half the time, it would save me about $50 per year in electricity costs.  And in return I would have to deal with all the bs problems that would ensue.  Not worth it to me.

[stricko]

Fair points, all of em. I have a couple of old Gefen HDMI EDID boxes hidden away somewhere, I'll dig em out. They might struggle in the brave new world of 4k.....

The sleep business has been something of a personal ongoing technical challenge for several years, and to be honest I'm pleased to be near the end of it.

MC26 may indeed not be perfect, but it's still pretty bloody good, and definitely worth sticking with

[RoderickGI]

Spot on Wer.

I think the only reason I don't see HDMI problems with my HTPC is because my PC is directly connected to my Sony TV, and even in standby the TV is pretty much still turned on. It even keeps its network connection active and continues DLNA Discovery (SSDP packets flying everywhere) running. So, the EDID and HDMI connection is maintained.

Stricko, I think you will need a new HDMI device to support 4K at current refresh rates and bandwidth requirements, particularly if using HDR.

[JimH]

We try not to change things that work well.  Theater View works well. 

My PC sleeps and wakes perfectly.  All HDMI connections.  I only need to log in when Windows updates.  I reboot every few months.

I have my receiver and TV on a Z-Wave outlet strip and turn the outlet strip off with a remote when not in use.  It's off about 15 to 18 hours a day.  Both the receiver and TV power down when not in use, in case I forget to do it.

The EDID problem is well known and has nothing to do with JRiver.  Check the AVSForum for help on it.

[stricko]

Mmmm. Been playing with this a bit, but it's still not right. I tried this, as suggested

mc26 /mode standard
mc26 /sleep 2000
mc26 /mode theater

Seems to do what it is supposed to do, but only sometimes. On other occasions I still get the original scaling problem, and sometimes I get the standard Media Center is already running warning message, which I suspect is one command firing up before one of the others has finished. Sometimes, even if it looks like it worked, the warning message is there underneath.

This problem only occurs when Windows is coming out of standby. It has never happened when the PC reboots. I'm even considering the sledgehammer technique of forcing the PC to restart when it detects that it is waking. But surely there must be something more elegent?

Oh, and going right back to the start of the thread, why are there still transparency effects on standard view menus?

[wer]

Sleeping causes a lot of problems.  It's been that way for over 20 years.

You can put delays in between the lines in your script, if you think MC isn't responding fast enough:
timeout 10 /nobreak

You could also force MC to quit altogether with this:
mc26 /MCC 20007

So a more forceful version of the script might look like this:
mc26 /MCC 20007
timeout 30 /nobreak
mc26 /mode theater

Or don't sleep.  Or try a DrHDMI, like I mentioned before.  Sleeping the PC is vexing the graphics card driver, and it's taking it out on MC.

Oh, and going right back to the start of the thread, why are there still transparency effects on standard view menus?

That's skin dependent.  If you don't like it, pick a different skin from the View menu.

[RoderickGI]

Those commands don't address the HDMI issue. You could try using the "mc26.exe /restart" command after the AV receiver, projector and HTPC have all started up. But an HDMI Healer or equivalent is a better solution. If you do TV recordings and MC is restarted or the PC rebooted after waking, you may see unexpected results.

Transparency? What Skin are you using, Noire Glass? No that works fine. Probably a skin issue. Image?

Hello Wer. {waving} 

[wer]

Hi Rod!  How are ya?

I already told him about the DrHDMI.  He's trying the script first.  He was gone so long I thought the matter was settled.

The script doesn't address the HDMI problem, but what it does do is make MC reinitialize its DX (now OpenGL) window, which can sometimes work wonders. I know from experience.

[stricko]

Thanks for the comments guys. What is infuriating me the most is that this problem occured only after I'd done a complete rebuild of the pc. Same hardware, just fresh W10 installation.  HTPC had been running happily for years, always with up to date drivers etc. There is also something weird going on with how the projector is reporting refresh rate and HDR, when MC does its autochange thing. I'm waiting for the next nvidia driver release, to see if that improves things at all.

You'll perhaps understand then why I'm reluctant to pay £90 for a DrHDMi box, that i did'nt need a few weeks ago, shouldn't need now (although i understand the arguments) and may well not need in the future.

Skins are default whatever Mc26 installed itself with.

[TheShoe]

curious:

do you ever remotely log into the htpc, e.g. using RealVNC or some other remote desktop app, or play games in full screen mode?

when i have scaling problems, and not just in MC, it can always be traced back to either of those two events.   only rebooting corrects it or going into the nvidia display driver control panel and forcing a resolution or refresh rate change.

[stricko]

Neither

[stricko]

This has all been part of getting my setup to sleep / resume properly. i've just switched to forcing the whole pc to restart after resume, and i dont get any edid issues after a reboot. So problem gone.

[wer]

It's good your suffering has ended.  It smells like a driver problem (which could just be a registry setting) causing the HDMI handshaking issue after the rebuild.

The latest driver is not always the best driver.  Did you observe, when you rebuilt the machine, if the video driver you used was the SAME version you were using before, or just the latest?  I'm wondering if the problem cropped up in a later version.  It happens.

[stricko]

I keep my drivers pretty much up to date, so it was probably the same one, but cant know for sure. Final straw was a new driver release this week. I tried the "sd"(?) Version which is supposedly more stable and better tested but it did exactly the same thing. There were other issues that the restart approach seems to have fixed as well. The other HTpc was taking anything up to a minute to open its first file after resume... bizarre. Thanks for your input on all this

[wer]

No worries.  Good job on sorting it out... Sorry we couldn't come up with a more clear cut solution.  But Windows 10 is an agent of chaos...