Topic: Clips And Pops on DSD JRiver 26 (Read 2263 times)

KENJE · « **on:** June 13, 2020, 03:51:14 am »

I am getting Clicks and Pops on Ripped CD's using format DSD128. This has only started since Update 26.0.80.
I have Updated to 26.0.90 and even uninstalled and reinstalled my JRiver 26, but i still getting Pops and clicks on playback. Even when transferring to Micro card. It's on the Ripped File. Not just on JRiver playback.
Please can you help?

EnglishTiger · « **Reply #1 on:** June 13, 2020, 04:19:05 am »

There can be multiple reasons for Clicks & Pops occurring on Ripped Files some of which are :-

MC, or another program, was playing music during the ripping session
If you are using an external CD-Drive that's connected via USB the USB Cable could be faulty
If it is an external drive connected via USB and it was connected to a USB Port on the front of your PC, especially if you had another USB device that was also connected to a USB port on the front of your PC and/or headphones also connected to a port on the front of your PC

JimH · « **Reply #2 on:** June 13, 2020, 06:34:32 am »

Quote from: EnglishTiger on June 13, 2020, 04:19:05 am

There can be multiple reasons for Clicks & Pops occurring on Ripped Files some of which are :-

MC, or another program, was playing music during the ripping session

I don't think that's ever a problem.

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** June 13, 2020, 06:37:16 am »

Quote from: KENJE on June 13, 2020, 03:51:14 am

I am getting Clicks and Pops on Ripped CD's using format DSD128.

Are you ripping CD's and then converting to DSD? There's no advantage to doing that. The source is 44.1/16. You can't improve it by converting.

The conversion may be the problem.

KENJE · « **Reply #4 on:** June 13, 2020, 11:04:42 am »

No. I rip CD's straight to DSD 128. And i get wonderful sound from them. Have done so since i got JRiver years ago.
The problem only started after Update 26.0.80. Never had it before.

dtc · « **Reply #5 on:** June 13, 2020, 12:05:38 pm »

WASAPI or ASIO?

What do you see in Audio Path?

Can you try ripping the CD to 16/44 flac and then upsample to DSD on playback? Play both the 16/44 and then upsampled to DSD. That would help show whether there is a problem in the ripping process or on playback.

KENJE · « **Reply #6 on:** June 14, 2020, 04:53:04 am »

I have tried ripping in Flac and Upsampling to DSD. But i still get Pops and Clicks on DSD. Playing the Flac or Aiff files on there own there is no Pops or Clicks. It's only on DSD.
I don't listen to music normarly on JRiver. I Rip CD's then transfer to a Micro Card for my portable Digital music player.
The Audio Path is on Direct Sound.

dtc · « **Reply #7 on:** June 14, 2020, 07:10:13 am »

If you are using Direct Sound then the DSD is being converted to PCM. To play DSD directly you need to use WASAPI or ASIO and set Bitstreaming to On for DSD. WASAPI uses DoP whereas ASIO can be set to send either DoP or Native DSD sample rate. Take a look at Audio Path. It should show that the conversion is being made to PCM. Audio Path is the little gear at the top right, just below Search.

Trying converting a 16/44 to DSD using the library tool Convert Format. Then transfer that file to you player.

KENJE · « **Reply #8 on:** June 14, 2020, 11:02:03 am »

I have switched to WASAPI. Plus converted 16/44 to DSD and still the DSD File comes out with Pops and Clicks.

dtc · « **Reply #9 on:** June 14, 2020, 11:18:41 am »

Did you turn on bitstreaming? What does Audio Path say?

KENJE · « **Reply #10 on:** June 15, 2020, 03:34:45 am »

Ok let me start again.
I don't have any problems playing DSD files that i made before update 26.0.80. When i play them they sound great. No Pops or Clicks.
But since Update 26.0.80 when i Rip Cd's on DSD 128 the File has Pops and Clicks on it. They are being created when the CD is being Ripped.
So it's not a problem with JRiver Playback. The Pops and Clicks are on the DSD file. They are on it when i play the File on my portable DAC.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #11 on:** June 15, 2020, 04:31:03 am »

I hate to be that person and I hate to say it, but ripping CDs while encoding them to DSD is a waste of time and drive/device space. You don't gain anything at all doing that because all audio data/information is already there (if you rip them to a lossless format like FLAC) and you can't add new audio data/information to it so there's nothing to gain. In fact doing PCM to DSD or DSD to PCM conversions is a lossy conversion process so you're actually losing audio data/information doing those conversions. It just isn't worth it, in my opinion, and you won't hear any differences either.

CD audio is PCM, so I'd highly recommend leaving it as-is (and ripped to a lossless format like FLAC, ALAC or APE) and not ripping nor converting PCM audio to DSD.

dtc · « **Reply #12 on:** June 15, 2020, 08:13:12 am »

Quote from: Awesome Donkey on June 15, 2020, 04:31:03 am

I hate to be that person and I hate to say it, but ripping CDs while encoding them to DSD is a waste of time and drive/device space. You don't gain anything at all doing that because all audio data/information is already there (if you rip them to a lossless format like FLAC) and you can't add new audio data/information to it so there's nothing to gain. In fact doing PCM to DSD or DSD to PCM conversions is a lossy conversion process so you're actually losing audio data/information doing those conversions. It just isn't worth it, in my opinion, and you won't hear any differences either.

CD audio is PCM, so I'd highly recommend leaving it as-is (and ripped to a lossless format like FLAC, ALAC or APE) and not ripping nor converting PCM audio to DSD.

DACs are part of the audio chain and they perform differently depending on the design. In the DAC, the playback process for PCM and DSD can be quite different. That means that, for some DACs, some people can hear a difference in the sound between a PCM and a DSD input. In many cases, people do not hear a difference. But, in some cases they do. It depends on the equipment used and how the listener perceives the sound.

I agree that for most equipment and for many listeners, there will be little or no difference between PCM and DSD playback. But some people prefer the sound of DSD through their equipment, just like many prefer the sound of tubes compared to solid state. It is not just about the bits, but also about the playback process and the listener.

dtc · « **Reply #13 on:** June 15, 2020, 08:28:43 am »

Quote from: KENJE on June 15, 2020, 03:34:45 am

Ok let me start again.
I don't have any problems playing DSD files that i made before update 26.0.80. When i play them they sound great. No Pops or Clicks.
But since Update 26.0.80 when i Rip Cd's on DSD 128 the File has Pops and Clicks on it. They are being created when the CD is being Ripped.
So it's not a problem with JRiver Playback. The Pops and Clicks are on the DSD file. They are on it when i play the File on my portable DAC.

Your problem is quite unusual. I know of no simple solution. So, I am trying to eliminate some potential issues that could cause your problems.

Ripping directly to DSD is quite unusual. Therefore, I suggested as a diagnostic tool to try converting a Redbook file to DSD separately from the ripping process. That would help determine if the ripping process was causing a problem or if it were something in the PCM to DSD conversion. Have you tried a conversion independent of ripping?

Separately, since you have been using Direct Sound, you have not ever listened to actual DSD through MC. I was therefore helping to clear that up. The problem you have listening on MC may be due to a DSD to PCM conversion. My suggestions were meant to better understand that.

I would gladly provide you with a simple solution, if I knew of one. But I do not. So, you can either try some of my suggestions to see if we can come to a solution or wait to see if someone has a definitive solution. Your choice.

Manfred · « **Reply #14 on:** June 15, 2020, 11:03:59 am »

I agree with Awesome Donkey:

Quote

CD audio is PCM, so I'd highly recommend leaving it as-is (and ripped to a lossless format like FLAC, ALAC or APE) and not ripping nor converting PCM audio to DSD.

I have converted some 16/44.1; 24/96; 24/192 files to DSD64 to compare them with the original PCM version. Listening with my Devialet over USB and getting Volume right there is not much difference. Even I found the PCM versions better - more balanced.

I have ~30 DSD Album's from 2xHD & NativeDSD like LSO live recorded to DSD256. They sound brilliant - they are mastered for DSD or SACD.

dtc · « **Reply #15 on:** June 15, 2020, 12:22:21 pm »

Quote from: Manfred on June 15, 2020, 11:03:59 am

I agree with Awesome Donkey:

I have converted some 16/44.1; 24/96; 24/192 files to DSD64 to compare them with the original PCM version. Listening with my Devialet over USB and getting Volume right there is not much difference. Even I found the PCM versions better - more balanced.

I have ~30 DSD Album's from 2xHD & NativeDSD like LSO live recorded to DSD256. They sound brilliant - they are mastered for DSD or SACD.

As I said, different results using different equipment and different listeners. And, MC has an improved PCM to DSD conversion that may improve the sound after conversion.

KENJE · « **Reply #16 on:** June 16, 2020, 03:40:52 am »

I am not having a problem with different sound quality whether on JRiver or my Portable Music Player.

I have now ripped a CD to AIFF, and then converted it to DSD 128. The Pops and Clicks ( mainly Clicks ) are less when i do that.

So it's the DSD Rip that is the problem.

And this problem has only started since Update 26.0.80. I have been Ripping CD's to DSD 128 on JRiver for a number of years, and never had a problem with it until now. And the Sound quality is brilliant. Much better than the original CD's, It opens the sound up, and makes the Bass sharper and sounds more natural.

michael123 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 18, 2020, 12:39:19 am »

That's wrong what you're doing: you need to rip to format that matches the original one in a lossless quality, and if you want to upsample - do that during playback.

When you upsample to DSD128 you lose the original data

KENJE · « **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2020, 08:45:25 am »

OK if i'm doing it wrong. Then can someone please recommend a format that will give me the same open and detailed quality i get from DSD?
Wave and AIFF don't.

KENJE · « **Reply #19 on:** June 20, 2020, 05:29:50 am »

Hi all. All sorted. No Clicks or Pops since latest Update.
Thank you to all you Guy's for your Help.
JRiver is the Best!

dtc · « **Reply #20 on:** June 20, 2020, 06:47:33 am »

Glad it is working? Did you confirm you were getting DSD playback using bitstreaming with WASAPI? I know you said you do not typically use MC for playback, but it might be nice to have it working for future reference. Check Audio Path to be sure no conversions are being done, other than to DoP.

KENJE · « **Reply #21 on:** June 20, 2020, 08:12:22 am »

Yes. DSD is working on WASAPI playback with Bitstream. And checked Audio Path.
All is good. Thanks

dtc · « **Reply #22 on:** June 20, 2020, 08:28:48 am »

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Author Topic: Clips And Pops on DSD JRiver 26 (Read 2263 times)