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[stewart_pk]

I'm using an AMD 5700 GT video card and working it works perfectly with Cyberlink PowerDVD 19 but not with this product. I've tried a fresh installation of version 27 and video drivers dating back to the 29th of January and neither fixed the problem. Please investigate.

[JimH]

Try this:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Blu-ray

[stewart_pk]

Try this:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Blu-ray

I've been playing 3D bluray titles for years with MC. The last time was probably about 6 months ago.

[tij]

Someone mentioned that AMD got rid of 3D support in their latest driver ... check your driver settings to see if stereoscopic options are still there

EDIT: time to up to MC27 for me then ... to see if that's true

[glynor]

If it was the driver, it wouldn’t work in Cyberlink either.

[stewart_pk]

If it was the driver, it wouldn’t work in Cyberlink either.

Thank you! 

[stewart_pk]

Someone mentioned that AMD got rid of 3D support in their latest driver ... check your driver settings to see if stereoscopic options are still there.

Yes I read that and I'm treating it as rubbish.
3D options have not been available in the AMD control panel for year(s) but 3D is still supported.

You seemingly didn't read the part where I said that Cyberlink PowerDVD 19 works with the latest AMD driver and I have gone through the pain of reverting to the WHQL driver 29th of Januray 2020 and exactly the same problem occurs in MC. 

[tij]

Yes I read that and I'm treating it as rubbish.
3D options have not been available in the AMD control panel for year(s) but 3D is still supported.

You seemingly didn't read the part where I said that Cyberlink PowerDVD 19 works with the latest AMD driver and I have gone through the pain of reverting to the WHQL driver 29th of Januray 2020 and exactly the same problem occurs in MC. 

Well ... on my system MC27 is doing frame pack 3D fine ... so i apologise for seamingly trying to help you get same results.

Since you havent provide any information on your MC and MadVR settings, i seamingly assume you know what you are doing and those settings are correct. I seamingly then tried to eliminate things that can be wrong with your PC setup - starting from simplest even trivial things as most of time thats were the problem is.

As it seems you consider this rubbish, I apologise again and let others help you.

[TheShoe]

i can also confirm MC 27 and 3D work both with my nVidia and AMD cards.  running latest drivers for each.

at the very least i would expect if you have 3D enabled in MC and the rest of the config correct with MadVR then you would see top/bottom or side by side.  if you are using the MadVR presets that MC now provides, then i don’t know if they enable 3D or not in the MadVR advanced settings.

[stewart_pk]

Well ... on my system MC27 is doing frame pack 3D fine ... so i apologise for seamingly trying to help you get same results.

Thank you for confirming it works for you. What video card and driver are you using?

Since you havent provide any information on your MC and MadVR settings...

Yes I did, that was the bit where I wrote "I've tried a fresh installation of version 27" and that means I have tried the default out of the box madVR settings and I did this after 3D did not work properly with my madVR settings.

Just to clarify, I get the 24 FP (Frame Packed) confirmation on screen from my projector. But the video is weird and messed up. It is hard to explain but it doesn't appear 3D and then I move the mouse cursor and it kinda does and then it displays previous images of the video content with the current images.

[stewart_pk]

As it seems you consider this rubbish, I apologise again and let others help you.

The only thing I wrote that I considered rubbish is what someone else wrote and that you merely quoted and that was that AMD had dropped 3D support from their drivers without any evidence to back that up. Seeing as TheShoe confirmed 3D works with the latest AMD drivers and I can confirm 3D works for me with PowerDVD and the latest AMD drivers I'll stand by my statement that it is rubbish.

[henkeli]

I'm using an AMD 5700 GT video card and working it works perfectly with Cyberlink PowerDVD 19 but not with this product. I've tried a fresh installation of version 27 and video drivers dating back to the 29th of January and neither fixed the problem. Please investigate.

Did you update Windows 10 to Feature Update 2004?
If so, try to go back to 1909.
I use a 5500XT and when I updated to 2004 it really messed up 3D.
Only going back to 1909 resolved it.

I made a thread in the video card section a while back.
I guess someone needs to submit a bug to Microsoft as not that many people would even notice the issue these days.

[stewart_pk]

Did you update Windows 10 to Feature Update 2004?
If so, try to go back to 1909.
I use a 5500XT and when I updated to 2004 it really messed up 3D.
Only going back to 1909 resolved it.

I made a thread in the video card section a while back.
I guess someone needs to submit a bug to Microsoft as not that many people would even notice the issue these days.

Thank you for your reply.
Yes I'm on the latest Feature Update which I presume is 2004.
As you describe 3D seems "messed up" in that I can see Frame Pack 24 come up on my projector but the image is "messed up".

[henkeli]

Thank you for your reply.
Yes I'm on the latest Feature Update which I presume is 2004.
As you describe 3D seems "messed up" in that I can see Frame Pack 24 come up on my projector but the image is "messed up".

Well I don't have PowerDVD to test against - so maybe this should be looked at by JRiver/MadVR?
Eventually 1909 will move out of support.
Yes, everything triggers properly but the image sticks, boomerangs, and can only be corrected by moving the mouse or right-clicking for a menu.
I tried a variety of MadVR settings related to windowing and nothing worked.
There have been some changes with the AMD drivers recently - the Windows Desktop 3D is always toggled now, and there's no need to have MadVR toggle it on/off.
But what exactly happened with FU 2004 is a mystery to me.
Like I said, 1909 works fine across all Radeon SW updates in 2020.

[Faile]

i can also confirm MC 27 and 3D work both with my nVidia and AMD cards.  running latest drivers for each.

at the very least i would expect if you have 3D enabled in MC and the rest of the config correct with MadVR then you would see top/bottom or side by side.  if you are using the MadVR presets that MC now provides, then i don’t know if they enable 3D or not in the MadVR advanced settings.

With your nVidia cards ? They removed the support completely last year, how do you manage to get 3D BluRays going ??
I tried a bunch of times and it just doesn't go into 3D mode anymore and the resolutions list in the driver also doesn't list 3D modes anymore.

[rec head]

If using Nvidia cards you can have MC output 3D as Top-Over-Bottom. At least with my TV, I need to then switch it manually.

[henkeli]

Someone else has submitted to Intel & MS:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-2004-update-breaks-3d-display-behaviour/5d316199-e5a8-41dd-9914-9f39fc761262

Let's pump up those rookie numbers on the "I have the same question" button.

That user's fix was to rollback the Feature Update as well.

OP - can you confirm your Windows build?

JRiver, any chance of placing this on your watchlist?

[stewart_pk]

Well I don't have PowerDVD to test against - so maybe this should be looked at by JRiver/MadVR?

I do and PowerDVD works. Seeing as though the version of madVR hasn't changed (.097) I consider this a JRiver MC issue even if that involves working around a Windows 10 (2004) bug\issue.

[TheShoe]

This weekend I purchased an AMD 5500XT card and installed it into a new HTPC running a fresh install of Windows 10 v2004.

While Frame Packed 3D would trigger the TV to enter 3D mode, the video was clearly not 3D.  Worse, stopping video playback completely caused the system to become unstable - MC crash, the AMD drivers refuse to recognize the 5500 XT (displays an error message trying to start their management app) upon reboot, and Windows Device Manager reports both the integrated GPU and the 5500XT as "not working" with an error code (internet searches were not useful is resolving).  No amount of driver removal/re-install worked.  We had to basically rebuild Windows 10 from scratch.  We tried re-installing the drivers, removing the devices and re-installing the drivers, disable/enable the devices, nothing worked.  Each time Windows would simply load their "basic video card" support and show both the integrated GPU and AMD card as not working.  Something becomes corrupted in Windows at a basic level under this situation. 

We tested this twice - complete re-install of windows to get it all working again, using default AMD driver settings, attempt to playback frame-packed 3D - with the same results (thankfully re-installing Windows is not a terribly time consuming process). 

In any case, the simple "fix" for me is simply tell MadVR to output top-and-bottom and press a button on my remote to tell the TV to enter 3D mode, which is what I do with my other HTPC that is nVidia based.  Since it's a 4K OLED, it's still full resolution 3D and looks every bit as good as frame-packed.

If I can find a copy of Windows v1909 will test that next...

[wer]

Shoe, I don't have a fix for your 3D problem, but I can give you some advice that will make your life easier.

This reinstalling of Windows is a needless torture you're inflicting on yourself. Get yourself a copy of Macrium Reflect. They have a free version.

Use it to make a backup of your C drive. Schedule it to keep making incremental or differential backups.  You will be able to use it to revert the computer to a working state, as if nothing had happened, in just a couple of minutes.

For example, I have my JRiver server booting from a SSD. Any time I make a change, like a Windows upgrade or an MC upgrade, or putting in a new version of madVR, I take a snapshot first.  If I don't like the results of the change, the time it takes to revert to the snapshot is about 70 seconds.  It's literally like nothing ever happened: the entire filesystem, registry, everything is back to the way it was before. You don't have to think about undoing what you did, or about any ill effects.

It's a lifesaver, so I highly recommend it.

Good luck...

-Will

[TheShoe]

thanks - will check that out!  was thinking about this...

in the end i returned the amd 5500XT and bought a slightly cheaper nVidia 1650S which works perfectly.  and then watched The Hobbit in 3D

[henkeli]

I do and PowerDVD works. Seeing as though the version of madVR hasn't changed (.097) I consider this a JRiver MC issue even if that involves working around a Windows 10 (2004) bug\issue.

I completely agree.
No, buying a nVidia card which has completely dropped 3D support is not a solution.

JRiver, what are your plans to fix this bug in your SW?

[JimH]

thanks - will check that out!  was thinking about this...

in the end i returned the amd 5500XT and bought a slightly cheaper nVidia 1650S which works perfectly.  and then watched The Hobbit in 3D

So 3D works with some hardware and not other.  I don't think this is a JRiver problem.

[TheShoe]

With your nVidia cards ? They removed the support completely last year, how do you manage to get 3D BluRays going ??
I tried a bunch of times and it just doesn't go into 3D mode anymore and the resolutions list in the driver also doesn't list 3D modes anymore.

i should have been clear: I use top/bottom 3D to a 4K 3D capable TV.  it's full resolution 3D.  basically I've removed the video card from the equation, which for me is fine as I also use the HTPC for gaming, and that unfortunately requires the latest drivers.

you can bring 3D vision support back for nVidia - https://helixmod.blogspot.com/2017/05/3d-fix-manager.html, at your own risk.  alternatively you can use the last nVidia drivers to support 3D; if you don't game and the PC is a dedicated HTPC, there's probably little reason to upgrade the drivers.

i'm going to mess around with the helixmod on a scratch PC just to see how "stable" it is. 

--

[stewart_pk]

So 3D works with some hardware and not other.  I don't think this is a JRiver problem.

What is Cyberlnk PowerDVD doing that JRiver MC is not to make 3D work with AMD video cards using the latest version of Windows 10 (2004)?

[TheShoe]

Are you using madVR in Full Screen Exclusive mode?  Does that make any difference?

I think for other "issues" in the past with various things, FSE has been a work-around for some.

you might also try MPC-HC with madVR+Lav and see if frame-packed 3D works there.  That would further narrow down the issue possibly to something in Media Center that just doesn't sit well with latest Windows 10 2004.

[henkeli]

Did some more testing today with 2004.
Everything works fine as long as I run in a smaller window.
As soon as I go full screen it stops working.
Left eye "freezes" and right eye continues on, making things unwatchable.

Any way to force JRiver into a borderless window mode?
Used to have to do this with certain video games...

FSE did not change anything. I tried all of the settings inside the General section, different combos, etc.

[tij]

Did some more testing today with 2004.
Everything works fine as long as I run in a smaller window.
As soon as I go full screen it stops working.
Left eye "freezes" and right eye continues on, making things unwatchable.

Any way to force JRiver into a borderless window mode?
Used to have to do this with certain video games...

FSE did not change anything. I tried all of the settings inside the General section, different combos, etc.

It’s possible the problems is coming from 2004 new feature that forces/lock display to certain refresh rate ... check Windows display property (not GPU settings) ... try changing refresh rates to multiple of 24 (48, 72, 96 or 120) ... this is pure guess on my part as I am not on 2004

EDIT: 120Hz would be ideal ... as it will play nice with 60fps content

EDIT2: just installed 2004 (build 19041.572) ... no refresh rate option in Windows Display settings (must have been removed from beta builds) ... tried 3D with Nvidia drivers 425.31 (last known official NVidia driver to have 3D) and it works ... sorry I cannot offer further assistance as it seems this is specific to AMD drivers (Windows 2004 must have broken something in AMD drivers that MadVR uses ... I highly doubt JRiver can do anything ... its either AMD, Microsoft or MadVR who have to step up ... I highly doubt madshi will have time for this ... so it will either be Mircrosft or AMD)

EDIT3: try running desktop in 1080p23 (as this is the resolution at which 3D works) ... see if 3D is working under this settings ... if it does, then there is problem with driver switching resolution and/or refresh rate (I use Direct 3D 11 for presentation without FSE)

EDIT4: try restarting you computer to 1080p23 desktop ... and see if it makes 3D work

[henkeli]

It's not an AMD issue (or even Windows) because 3D is being rendered correctly while not in fullscreen
Also, PowerDVD works fine with AMD / Win10 2004

Narrowing this down further, I've found that even fullscreen works properly so long as I move my mouse over the top of the screen and keep the JRiver info-box visible.
As soon as the info-box auto-hides, then the messy picture returns.

Sounds like a madVR issue.
Why the eff would an OSD (or running in a window) have impact on this?
What technically happens when the OSD is displayed and then disappears?

[tij]

It's not an AMD issue (or even Windows) because 3D is being rendered correctly while not in fullscreen
Also, PowerDVD works fine with AMD / Win10 2004

Narrowing this down further, I've found that even fullscreen works properly so long as I move my mouse over the top of the screen and keep the JRiver info-box visible.
As soon as the info-box auto-hides, then the messy picture returns.

Sounds like a madVR issue.
Why the eff would an OSD (or running in a window) have impact on this?
What technically happens when the OSD is displayed and then disappears?

I am running some test with TheShoe  (we have nearly identical setup) .... I upgraded to 2004 just to do some of those test with him (1909 work fine for me)  ... atm it seems if he starts PC at 60fps, his 23fps stuff works badly (all 3D are 23 stuff by the way) ... I start my desktop at 23fps and get opposite effect (changing desktop refresh rate later has no effect on this weirdness ... which makes me believe refresh rate you start your PC determines which FPS will work correctly)

... I am a bit too lazy now to restart my computer to 60fps to confirm this hypothesis (maybe tomorrow)

But if the hypothesis I right - maybe restarting your PC to 23fps desktop will fix 3D (but screw up your 60fps stuff) ... and you probably right that 2004 screw something up in MadVR

[wer]

Have you tried using windowed overlay mode in MadVR?

[tij]

Just restarted my computer into 60fps desktop ... same problems as others described ... TV triggers 3D ... but in some case no 3D (or weird stuff) - in some cases one eye gets stuck

This is of course on NVidia ... but I suspect problem is same for AMD

Changing desktop to 23fps does not help

Only hard restart into 23fps desktop makes 3D works in my case (then changing desktop to 60fps still makes 3D work)

See if people with AMD can replicate this ... if they can - then its Windows broke something in MadVR that uses to playback 3D (PowerDVD might be using different method to initiate 3D playback that did not get affected by Windows 2004)

[henkeli]

I was able to replicate the issue using MPC-BE.
I guess I gotta track down madshi on another forum and see if he can take a look.

[stewart_pk]

I was able to replicate the issue using MPC-BE.
I guess I gotta track down madshi on another forum and see if he can take a look.

Thank you very much.

[tij]

I was able to replicate the issue using MPC-BE.
I guess I gotta track down madshi on another forum and see if he can take a look.

So ... if you restart your computer to 23fps desktop, 3D works? (just wanna make sure we are on same page)

And if you change desktop fps to 60 (without restarting PC), 3D still works?

[henkeli]

So ... if you restart your computer to 23fps desktop, 3D works? (just wanna make sure we are on same page)

And if you change desktop fps to 60 (without restarting PC), 3D still works?

This does not fix the issue.

Update in general: version 20H2 still has the same issue with 3D playback.
No traction yet on a fix.

[stewart_pk]

This does not fix the issue.

Update in general: version 20H2 still has the same issue with 3D playback.
No traction yet on a fix.

Thank you for the update. This is sad, what once was a great 3D playback machine is now dead in the water.

[henkeli]

Thank you for the update. This is sad, what once was a great 3D playback machine is now dead in the water.

It's not over, yet.
Finally had some time to play around with Win10 20H2 and 3D MKV and figured out how to make it work:

• Change compatibility settings on your player executable (e.g. mpc-be.exe) via right-click->Properties->Compatibility->Disable fullscreen optimizations (this gets rid of Win10 forcing a borderless window in fullscreen)
• Set madVR rendering->general settings->enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode
• Set madVR devices->display modes->hack Direct3D to make 24.000Hz and 60.000Hz work

Notice that the display rate will be the proper 23Hz to match the source rate, but the composition rate will be 60Hz.
Apparently this is a long standing issue with madVR and Windows (except for Windows v8) along with GPU drivers not playing nice with desktop composition.
I've seen similar complaints with the HDR toggle and recent changes to nVidia drivers.
I'm not used to using FSE, but have mapped all the necessary key shortcuts to my Harmony remote to solve the limitations.
Convenient ones to keep in mind: cycle through audio track and subtitle track (can't use mouse/menu without blanking screen).

Let me know if this works for you too.

[TorqW]

Henkeli- this worked great.
Many thanks indeed.

[stewart_pk]

It's not over, yet.
Finally had some time to play around with Win10 20H2 and 3D MKV and figured out how to make it work:

• Change compatibility settings on your player executable (e.g. mpc-be.exe) via right-click->Properties->Compatibility->Disable fullscreen optimizations (this gets rid of Win10 forcing a borderless window in fullscreen)
• Set madVR rendering->general settings->enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode
• Set madVR devices->display modes->hack Direct3D to make 24.000Hz and 60.000Hz work

Notice that the display rate will be the proper 23Hz to match the source rate, but the composition rate will be 60Hz.
Apparently this is a long standing issue with madVR and Windows (except for Windows v8) along with GPU drivers not playing nice with desktop composition.
I've seen similar complaints with the HDR toggle and recent changes to nVidia drivers.
I'm not used to using FSE, but have mapped all the necessary key shortcuts to my Harmony remote to solve the limitations.
Convenient ones to keep in mind: cycle through audio track and subtitle track (can't use mouse/menu without blanking screen).

Let me know if this works for you too.

Oh my I tried this and it has worked so thank you very much.

JimH - Can you please move this thread back to its original location or somewhere else as it is not a hardware issue!

[JimH]

madVR posts belong here.