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[ThomasB]

I just wanted to share my problem with you.
This was my problem with MC 26/27 I reported almost 1 year ago:

My last working version of MediaCenter is version 25. Unfortunately I've bought and paid Version 26 before I've tested it.
Now as version 27 is out I've tested again version 26 in the latest release and the latest release of version 27.
However, my media network doesn't work with both 26 and 27.
As from version 26 my Marantz NR1710 is not recognized at all and neither JRemote nor Gizmo are able to connect to my Media Server.

Conclusion: I've deinstalled both versions 26 and 27 again and I am happy with version 25 which still works fine. The money for version 26 was already wasted and I have very little motivation to upgrade to any newer version again.
That's a rather sad story, sorry to say. Fortunately I don't need any of the newer features, therefore I might stick to version 25 forever.

I have no idea what you have done or redesigned to ignore my Marantz net receiver and why JRemote and Gizmo stopped working in the newer versions.
Maybe you react this time. My last report about this problem apprx. 1 year ago when version 26 was out was unfortunately ignored from your side.

Situation remains unchanged with MC 28; i.e. MC 28 is working with all my net connected devices, except the Marantz NR1710.
BTW, in the meantime I've updated several PC's in my network and the main server PC (Lenovo) where MC 25 is operating is a totally new clean Windows 10 installation, nevertheless only MC 25 still works troublefree and all newer versions of MC still don't talk to my NR1710.

[JimH]

Compare your settings between the working version and the one that isn't.  DLNA Server settings can make the difference. 

Firewall settings can also cause this.  Open ports 52100 to 52200 and 1900.

There's been no change in MC that could account for this problem.

You can download DMRA from Whitebear to analyze the setup.  AndrewFG on our forum has a link in his signature.

[ThomasB]

Thank you for your reply.

All these issues have been ALL investigated already last time during compatibility test for MC27.
No reason to repeat your old assumtions which simply do not solve the issue.

One last time: MC versions up to and incl. 25 are working; i.e. I'm able to select my Marantz NR1710 as playing target. As from MC versions 26 up to and incl. 28 within MediaCenter my Marantz is no longer a valid playing target to stream music.
However, all other sources or targets are working.
Conclusio: Nothing wrong with my setup nor with my firewall setting but obviously a compatibility issue between your software and Marantz (HEOS, Denon) as from version 26. I simply don't know what's different in your newer software versions to cause such troubles.
It's as simple as that. Outside MediaCenter and within MC 25 everything is still fine hence I don't see any reason for action on my side.

Maybe you try to contact Marantz/Denon technical support and find out what's so different with their software which operates very nicely with each and every software solution on ALL platforms except your MC26/27/28.

[Awesome Donkey]

What happens if you do a library (and settings) backup in MC25 and restore it in MC28? It *should* transfer all the settings over.

[ThomasB]

What happens if you do a library (and settings) backup in MC25 and restore it in MC28? It *should* transfer all the settings over.

This doesn't change anything.

Obviously MC is checking all available renderers within the network during normal installation routine after activation of media network. In MC25 my Marantz is found and presented and available for streaming services. However, as from MC26 no Marantz is found, although it's listed in the Windows Network explorer and available and operating also for other SW packages like e.g. Twonky Server. Also Windows Media Player has no issues whatsoever to play anything to the Marantz receiver.
Obviously MC looks for certain or special criteria which aren't fullfilled by Marantz/Denon as from MC26. That's really the only explanation which would make sense.

I've already checked EVERYTHING when testing MC27. No motivation from my side to do all this again. That's really cumbersome und time consuming.

The only reason why I'm reporting here these issues is that I regret these troubles and the inability to migrate to any newer version like I've done since ages.

It may well be that other users are facing the same problems (1 user confirmed last year and sticks also to MC25). Many others may try it and simply walk away without reporting; i.e. JRiver may loose some customers.
I will continue to use MC25 until further. That's all I can do for the time being.

[JimH]

ThomasB,
If you're unwilling to consider any help offered, you're just wasting everyone's time.  Please re-consider.

[JimH]

Previous thread on this problem.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,128194.msg889366.html#msg889366

Pay close attention to AndrewFG's comments there.

[markf2748]

Have you looked at this recent thread:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,129878.0.html
The solution for user zender is revealed in Page 2 - Reply #54, which refers to the setting:
Options > Media Network > Add or configure DLNA servers... > Video > Advanced > DLNAExtra

[ThomasB]

ThomasB,
If you're unwilling to consider any help offered, you're just wasting everyone's time.  Please re-consider.

You have wasted my time already when testing MC27. I'm pretty sure that the Marantz renderer simply doesn't comply to your requirements as from MC 26.
I had a similar issue several years ago also in combination with a Marantz net receiver (an older model) and one of your IT-experts solved it bilaterally. There was a little modifacation required within YOUR software and not on my side.
Up to version 25 this worked quite well.

This time you simlpy deny that it maybe a likewise issue as mentioned before; i.e. a little incompatibility for whatever reason.

Bad luck, there is nothing I can do from my side as I've checked EVERYTHING already.

BTW, I'm not an idiot. Until my retirement I was the responsible chief officer to operate a huge IT system/network around the world and I was also responsible for development/maintenance. In other words: I have some ideas how to identify IT troubles.

It's totally up to you if you want to keep or loose a long time custumer. I only wanted to inform you that this incompatibility issue still persists, limited to MC26/27/28 and no other SW whatsoever.

[JimH]

I'm certain this is a settings problem, not an MC problem.

DLNA and UPnP are standards.  Not all implementations follow the standards.  MC has some settings that can work around these problems.  But there are other possibilities.

Did you try the 32 bit version of MC?

[JimH]

Have you looked at this recent thread:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,129878.0.html
The solution for user zender is revealed in Page 2 - Reply #54, which refers to the setting:
Options > Media Network > Add or configure DLNA servers... > Video > Advanced > DLNAExtra

Please try it, Thomas.

Last time you had trouble with DMRA.  Start there.

[JimH]

Our Android app, BingoSSDP, can find servers on the network.

[ThomasB]

I'm not denying anything, but I'm certain this is a settings problem, not an MC problem.

DLNA and UPnP are standards.  Not all implementations follow the standards.  MC has some settings that can work around these problems.  But there are other possibilities.

Try to stick to the facts and give your opinions a rest.

Did you try the 32 bit version of MC?

Well that's exactly my guess: Maybe Marantz/Denon doesn't stick to the standards and MC simply ignores the net receiver for that reason. Interesting is that it's shown as a "multi media player" in the Windows network explorer and not as a "typical DLNA renderer" likewise to the other MC25 PCs within my network. However, according to the Marantz specs they claim to comply to the UPnP/DLNA standards....

I haven't realized any differences betw. 32 and 64 bit versions.

Obviously we are getting closer now: What are the settings within MC to find or to setup DLNA renderers manually. Obviously it's ignored by your automated routines otherwise. There must be a change in your routines betw. MC25 and as from MC26. Everything else doesn't make any sense to me.

[ThomasB]

Our Android app, BingoSSDP, can find servers on the network.

GIZMO and JRemote2 is finding the Marantz and can play to it anyway. Also JRiver for Android 28.0.81 64 bit can talk to my Marantz.

The problem is REALLY limited to MC26/27/28 on WINDOWS 10.

[Awesome Donkey]

Honestly, it sounds like something is blocking MC's ability to discover devices like this, perhaps a firewall or something? Maybe you should double check your firewall (e.g. Windows Firewall) settings for MC26, MC27 and MC28 and make sure it has full inbound/outbound permissions. You might look at any inbound/outbound settings for MC25 and compare them to MC26, MC27 and MC28 and see if there's any differences. Maybe try resetting Media Network settings too as a last resort and see what happens.

[JimH]

Thomas,
In your old thread, both AndrewFG and Bob replied.  Re-read those posts.

AndrewFG is the author of DMRA, and it was also blocked.

Bob is the primary author of our DLNA.  He gave you settings to try.

Please reply here with what you find.

[JimH]

Honestly, it sounds like something is blocking MC's ability to discover devices like this, perhaps a firewall or something? Maybe you should double check your firewall (e.g. Windows Firewall) settings for MC26, MC27 and MC28 and make sure it has full inbound/outbound permissions. You might look at any inbound/outbound settings for MC25 and compare them to MC26, MC27 and MC28 and see if there's any differences. Maybe try resetting Media Network settings too as a last resort and see what happens.

This is also good advice.

[Awesome Donkey]

Resetting Media Network is a last resort step, but it may help especially if you restored a library/settings backup from MC25, which *could*, I suppose, cause some sort of conflict if multiple versions of Media Center are installed and running at the same time with the same Media Network access key and settings. If you have multiple PCs (ideally one without already running Media Center) or access to virtual machines, you might try setting one up and installing a clean version of Media Center to see if it (with default settings) detects the Marantz.

I mean, if you're good at monitoring network traffic you could even try using a packet sniffer like WireShark and see what's happening. But it really sounds like something, for whatever reason, is blocking its ability to discover it.

[ThomasB]

Honestly, it sounds like something is blocking MC's ability to discover devices like this, perhaps a firewall or something? Maybe you should double check your firewall (e.g. Windows Firewall) settings for MC26, MC27 and MC28 and make sure it has full inbound/outbound permissions. You might look at any inbound/outbound settings for MC25 and compare them to MC26, MC27 and MC28 and see if there's any differences. Maybe try resetting Media Network settings too as a last resort and see what happens.

I've done all these comparisons already with MC27. No differences at all; i.e. no firewall issues. I've also tried a totally new Windows 10 installation and new MC27 version from scatch; i.e. without update or migration of previous settings.
No way to get the Marantz recognized by MC 26/27/28; i.e. MC as from version 26 simply ignores the Marantz for whatever reason. Same procedure with MC 25 works fine. I've done this even on different PCs already.

[ThomasB]

Thomas,
In your old thread, both AndrewFG and Bob replied.  Re-read those posts.

AndrewFG is the author of DMRA, and it was also blocked.

Bob is the primary author of our DLNA.  He gave you settings to try.

Please reply here with what you find.

Here is the DMRA output (screenshot, mc28.jpg) when MC28 is installed and running. As you can see DMRA has no troubles to dedect the Marantz but it doesn't show up in the very left upper corner of MC.

[ThomasB]

In the meantime also my Panasonic TV shows up in MC28 but the Marantz is still missing.....

[JimH]

The returns from DMRA are in this format:

http://192.168.178.47:60006/

The 60006 is probably the port in use by the Marantz.  Try entering that URL in a browser.

Never mind what I said about Bingo SSDP.  It won't work in this case.

[JimH]

Also in DMRA, try the Renderer tests (different tab).

[JimH]

In your firewall settings, try opening 60006.  Make sure 1900 is also open (for discovery).

[JimH]

Bob's advice in the old thread:

A couple of things to check as well.
Right-click on the player (or any other) zone
Show/Hide Zone
Show
see if your missing zone is listed.

Otherwise look at the Media Network in the tree on the left under Services & Plug-ins
Check the status of the servers, are they all running?
Choose the SSDP server in the server's drop down.
Look for the stuff in the activity screen
Do you see the IP of your Marantz renderer in the source column?

[ThomasB]

The returns from DMRA are in this format:

http://192.168.178.47:60006/

The 60006 is probably the port in use by the Marantz.  Try entering that URL in a browser.

Never mind what I said about Bingo SSDP.  It won't work in this case.

192.168.178.47 without port number opens the Marantz web interface

[ThomasB]

Also in DMRA, try the Renderer tests (different tab).

Test OK:

[ThomasB]

Bob's advice in the old thread:

A couple of things to check as well.
Right-click on the player (or any other) zone
Show/Hide Zone
Show
see if your missing zone is listed.

Otherwise look at the Media Network in the tree on the left under Services & Plug-ins
Check the status of the servers, are they all running?
Choose the SSDP server in the server's drop down.
Look for the stuff in the activity screen
Do you see the IP of your Marantz renderer in the source column?

Yes, the Marantz renderer is listed like the others in the source column. No different behaviour visible....

In the meantime even my Smartphone is listed as valid playing renderer, top left within MC.......
Marantz still missing.

[JimH]

192.168.178.47 without port number opens the Marantz web interface

That means port 80 is open, but try with the 60006 port to see what happens.  And then check that 60006 is allowed for MC in your firewall.

[markf2748]

Here are some instructions to test for an open port using telnet:
https://kb.synology.com/en-me/DSM/tutorial/Whether_TCP_port_is_open_or_closed

I followed and confirmed discovery of a Chromecast Audio Dongle that is set up with DLNA by BubbleUPnPServer.
It should be a valid test on the OP's simpler case.
If Port 60006 is open to his server PC (which seems to be the case because of DMRA test result), then I think it points a stronger finger at firewall setting for MC specifically, or MC discovery and how it reads Marantz's xml file.

[JimH]

You can limit the view to a single device.  If you do that, you may learn a little about what's going on.

I think it's a firewall problem.

[ThomasB]

That means port 80 is open, but try with the 60006 port to see what happens.  And then check that 60006 is allowed for MC in your firewall.

60006 returns "404 not found"
URL without port returns port 10443 which is the web interface of the receiver
There is no port no. limitation for MC in the firewall; i.e. firewall is open for ALL ports both for MC25 and MC28 IN and OUT.

However, as DMRA works OK, detects the Marantz and is playing the test file it's again a matter of MC28 which doesn't accept the net receiver as a valid DLNA renderer.
It's polled by the SSDP server within MC28 like it does within MC25, there I can't see any difference as well.
MC25 is listing the Marantz as valid DLNA renderer and MC28 does not.......

There is no other possibility left: MC28 has some troubles in accepting the Marantz as a valid DLNA renderer. As I don't know how your program is working or what MC28 needs in comparison to MC25 I'm getting lost here.

BTW, most of all that stuff was done already apprx. 1 year ago with MC27 and no solution could be provided from your side. We are drawing circles here....

[ThomasB]

Here are some instructions to test for an open port using telnet:
https://kb.synology.com/en-me/DSM/tutorial/Whether_TCP_port_is_open_or_closed

I followed and confirmed discovery of a Chromecast Audio Dongle that is set up with DLNA by BubbleUPnPServer.
It should be a valid test on the OP's simpler case.
If Port 60006 is open to his server PC (which seems to be the case because of DMRA test result), then I think it points a stronger finger at firewall setting for MC specifically, or MC discovery and how it reads Marantz's xml file.

Well that's also my assumption that MC as from 26 up to 28 has changed the routine how the XML file from the Marantz is read. There is no other possibility left. MC 25 is working fine with IDENTICAL firewall settings.

[markf2748]

Of course there is one other discovery step that must happen first:  Marantz has to recognize MC 28's M-SEARCH packets and then respond to them with NOTIFY alive packets containing the Device Description xml path and other information about its renderer servers.  Since so many other devices connect routinely, and Whitebear DMRA looks good, one would not expect this step to be problem.  However, all can be checked in a pretty straightforward manner with elementary Wireshark analysis, or to some extent from a MC log file.  BTW, the telnet test with port specification will get around that web browser "404 not found" response.

(I do not work for JRiver.  Just relaying what I've learned in the past few weeks from troubleshooting my own MC network issues.)

[ThomasB]

OK, now I've restarted ALL devices, incl. Marantz and Server PC several times without changing anything in the settings, except that I disabled autostart within MC25 and activated to start the MC28 server when starting Windows.

Surprisingly the Marantz NR1710 shows up in MC28 now as available renderer. Dont ask me why. This will remain to be a miracle.

I will test MC28 on my other PC's within my network tomorrow as well. Will report outcome. If positive I may then buy an upgrade licence.

[markf2748]

My setup also uses JRiver Media Center 28 Service with Startup Type: automatic.  This causes the MC 28 Server process to appear very early in the Windows startup cycle. Note the service is distinct from app Media Center 28 which is listed as a Background Process in task manager, and then moves to the App section once you open a GUI.  Discovery has been very reliable for me. Typical discovery failures are when new Win 10 (Win 11) updates sit around in the background to be installed, or following an off-normal shutdown, such as a windows update reboot or reboot after a power failure.  Then it may take an extra reboot to get back on track.

As you indicate, there could be some kind of blocking between MC 25 and MC 28 with regard to network discovery, or a startup time issue.  If MC 25 started first, then the Marantz cached information about its network address, servers, etc. When MC 28 followed later, the Marantz may have been confused about who to respond to.  The SSDP/UDP protocols should be able to handle this properly based on packet headers, but you never know about the various implementations.  More generally I would think running multiple MC versions simultaneously is just asking for trouble.

In any case I'm glad to hear MC 28 is working with the Marantz.

[ThomasB]

My setup also uses JRiver Media Center 28 Service with Startup Type: automatic.  This causes the MC 28 Server process to appear very early in the Windows startup cycle. Note the service is distinct from app Media Center 28 which is listed as a Background Process in task manager, and then moves to the App section once you open a GUI.  Discovery has been very reliable for me. Typical discovery failures are when new Win 10 (Win 11) updates sit around in the background to be installed, or following an off-normal shutdown, such as a windows update reboot or reboot after a power failure.  Then it may take an extra reboot to get back on track.

As you indicate, there could be some kind of blocking between MC 25 and MC 28 with regard to network discovery, or a startup time issue.  If MC 25 started first, then the Marantz cached information about its network address, servers, etc. When MC 28 followed later, the Marantz may have been confused about who to respond to.  The SSDP/UDP protocols should be able to handle this properly based on packet headers, but you never know about the various implementations.  More generally I would think running multiple MC versions simultaneously is just asking for trouble.

In any case I'm glad to hear MC 28 is working with the Marantz.

Well, for me the most logical explanation is that MC28 somehow took over the settings from MC25 as it was totally impossible to find the Marantz renderer on a clean installation from scratch; i.e. without prior installation of MC25.
Anyway, I'm glad that it works now.

However, I have to find out if the upgrade has any value at all: I've looked into the new IPTV possibilities but they don't work with my setup: The M3U list from my Cable TV provider (Fritz box) works perfectly well in combination with VLC but not at all with MC28. During setup I've also realized that in the list of countries there are 2 Australias but no Austria ?? After several attempts to setup TV I'm loosing my nerves. I think it's better to stay with VLC for TV. There I only have to click on the M3U-file and open it with VLC: This generates the list of channels automatically. If I do the same with MC28 the program is crashing.....

Have to do some more testing......

[bob]

This is just for reference on the DLNA discovery issue since you got it going.

Start with firewalls.
Disable them all temporarily to see if that's the issue.

Power cycling the renderer can fix discovery issues like this.
Sometime the firmware on it gets wedged and it can only get out of it by starting over.
This was the most likely to be the cause of your problem.

Also, you can't run MC25 and MC28 DLNA at the same time reliably since they will have the same IP destination for SSDP.
If MC25 was running in Media Server mode that would cause issues.

Finally the generated UUID's might be confusing the renderer if they are the same across versions of MC and the renderer is having issues figuring things out. In that case you could back up your library, then clear it in MC, restart MC, and restore the library without restoring the settings and see if that solves the problem (of course you will have to reconfigure any lost settings).

[dtc]

Also, you can't run MC25 and MC28 DLNA at the same time reliably since they will have the same IP destination for SSDP.
If MC25 was running in Media Server mode that would cause issues.

Perhaps on startup MC should check to see if a MC Server is running and, if so, check to see that it is a compatible version.  I know I have run into this issue occasionally when a new major release comes out and I am running both the old and the new versions.  And, like here, it is really hard to find unless you are looking for it.

[Awesome Donkey]

^ This is a good idea.

Also, you can't run MC25 and MC28 DLNA at the same time reliably since they will have the same IP destination for SSDP.
If MC25 was running in Media Server mode that would cause issues.

Is this something that could be added to Media Center (as some sort of troubleshooting setting or option for Media Network to scan for issues)? Perhaps after installing a clean version of Media Center it could prompt the user about other versions of Media Center running on the same device and give the user some options, if they need them. Options could be added to disable Media Network for other Media Center instances. It could even detect other instances of Media Server running (like at startup) and give the user the option to disable that as well to prevent older instances of Media Server (and/or Media Network) from running.

Finally the generated UUID's might be confusing the renderer if they are the same across versions of MC and the renderer is having issues figuring things out. In that case you could back up your library, then clear it in MC, restart MC, and restore the library without restoring the settings and see if that solves the problem (of course you will have to reconfigure any lost settings).

This is something else that could be useful adding an advanced setting for, allowing users to do this within Media Center without having to clear and reset MC and import a library backup without settings. Is this possible as well?

Maybe it could be a network troubleshooter type of built-in tool and setting, which could scan for issues (and potential issues like the above) giving the user options to *hopefully* fix the issue(s)? This could also apply to things like testing whether or not the PC has the ability to successfully communicate to MC's server for downloading plugins like LAV filters, so it could detect potential firewall issues that cause the inability to download plugins for MC and inform the user about it, instead of just silently failing. Users do have this problem from time to time, but MC doesn't inform the user there's an issue other than saying playback failed.

[JimH]

On installing MC, it currently disables old servers.

[dtc]

On installing MC, it currently disables old servers.

So if I have MC 28 installed and I run MC25 wouldn't it start the MC25 server? That seems to be the problem this user is having.

[ThomasB]

Just for clarification:

I clearly said that on a totally clean new installation on a new Windows PC with MC as from version 26 WITHOUT prior installation of any older version MC was unable to find the Marantz but all other renderers within the network.

Therefore most of your assumptions MUST BE WRONG; i.e. this is no firewall issue and there is no other instance of MC running, etc....

Obviously there is a little incompatibility issue betw. the Marantz firmware and the dedection routine of MC 26/27/28.

Only when I installed BOTH versions; i.e. MC 25 and 28 I've got finally the issue solved. Obviously MC28 is somehow taking over some settings from MC25 in this case.

However, I'll see what will happen with my other PC's within the network when I install MC28 there; i.e. if it's related to my Lenovo server PC only or not. At least this will narrow down the possibilities.
I'll report back when I have done this.....

[bob]

I simply posted a checklist of items in case anyone else has this issue, I can't think of a way MC25 could help MC28 find your renderer.

[ThomasB]

OK, here is the proof that all what I've stated so far is 100% true and correct.
This is a totally clean install on a Windows 10 PC. There was never any MC version installed.
MC28 installed nicely and I've activated the server to enable DLNA networking.
It clearly shows that MC is communicating with the Marantz NR1710 IP: 192.168.178.47 but for whatever reason the Marantz is NOT LISTED in the left upper corner as available renderer.
However, all others are shown.

The information received from the Marantz is not interpreted correctly. This was my assumption as from the very beginning.

[ThomasB]

UPDATE: I've shut down the PC and turned it on again. Now the Marantz is listed.....

Issue solved.

Strange behaviour anyway.

[JimH]

So if I have MC 28 installed and I run MC25 wouldn't it start the MC25 server?

No.  You would have to set MC25 again to do that.

This thread is now locked.  I think ThomasB has enough information to continue on his own.  And I've had enough IMHO's.