Topic: Laptop Specifications To Play DSD Files (Read 8468 times)

SKY1950 · « **on:** February 24, 2022, 02:10:14 pm »

Hi All,

I am using a Microsoft Surface Laptop 3 loaded with JRiver MC, when connected via USB b cable my ATC CDA Mk2 should play up to DSD 256, when I play the file from MC even hardwired network it buffers, my other Flac files play fine, the DSD file plays on my desktop but my Hi Fi is in a different room, so question is what Surface 3 laptop spec is required to play DSD 256 through MC ?

Thanks Steve

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2022, 03:21:09 pm »

You're using DSD bitstreaming, right? If you're using DSP Studio > Output Format > Output Encoding set to a DSD option (it should be set to None), it's converting everything to DSD which is heavily resource intensive. DSD bitstreaming on the other hand does not and should be fine.

dtc · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2022, 04:05:14 pm »

If you are bitstreaming DSD files, you do not need much computer power. Since you are buffering, you are probably converting to PCM or using Output Format to convert to DSD, as AD said. Be sure bitstreaming is on when using usb. Audio Path will tell you what MC is doing. Actually converting files to DSD 256 takes a lot of computer power.

If you are using DLNA to play the DSD files over the network, be sure no file conversions are being down in the DLNA setup and that for DLNA under Advanced Bitstream DSD is checked for DoP and not checked for native.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2022, 04:18:00 am »

Hi Guys, thanks for the answers, I have MC DSP studio/output format/output encoding set to none, DSD bitstream set to yes, all other music files are Flac with some Hi Res files, the Flac files play fine through my laptop when using the USB b connection to my ATC cda Mk2 which can also handle DSD 256 the only file to buffer (hardwired) is the DSD 256 so I think the MC is setup right but is the Microsoft Surface 3 okay to stream the file ?

Steve

dtc · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2022, 06:39:38 am »

What is the processor? Is it sending DoP or native? What does Audio Path say it is sending? Are you using DoP or native?

Sending even DSD 256 is not very taxing on the processor.

The manual says they test with JRiver. You might want to contact them and see if they know of any issues.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 26, 2022, 02:46:06 pm »

Hi dtc, Sorry I'm not sure on DoP or native, how can i check ? also it is set up as per the ATC guide for JRiver MC, I have sent a message to them and I am waiting an answer.

Steve

dtc · « **Reply #6 on:** February 26, 2022, 06:19:04 pm »

Audio Path should tell you the details of what is playing. It is the gear shaped icon in the upper right. Click on it when playing the track.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 27, 2022, 04:20:15 am »

Hi dtc, I had to return the demo ATC so I don't have a DAC to play the DSD file but I have one on order so soon as I get it I will do a check, also should have some feedback from ATC by then, I will update this post.

Thanks
Steve

SKY1950 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 04, 2022, 11:36:12 am »

Hi all,
Sorry to open this old thread but I have now purchased JRiver and have a new ATC CDA mk2 which I have set up as per their instructions for JRiver, I have loaded my library which are CD ripped flac files, all play fine, however when I play a hi res 192-24 bit Flac or a DSD 256 file it buffers, I'm using a Microsoft surface 3 laptop connected by USB wired to ethernet, which should be more than able, on the last post dtc asked about what audio path it was on so I added a couple of screen shots which may help, any advice would be great

Steve

dtc · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2022, 11:48:28 am »

Can you connect directly to the DAC via usb? The buffering may be due to the Ethernet connections.

I would also try turning off Play from Memory. There are occasionally buffering problems if the file is very large and does not fit entirely into memory.

Grasping at straws. It should just work.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 04, 2022, 01:18:43 pm »

Hi dtc,
The usb is direct to the dac on the CDA mk2, but my surface book 3 has Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-1035G7 CPU @ 1.20GHz 1.50 GHz plus 8gb ram, and on the ATC manual it recommends 2.7 GHz and 4gb ram, could that be the problem ?

Steve

SKY1950 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 05, 2022, 03:27:14 pm »

Hi dtc, Just to confirm I did try turn off play from memory, but no joy.

Steve

dtc · « **Reply #12 on:** April 05, 2022, 03:39:14 pm »

I am at a loss to explain the problem. That CPU should be plenty to play these formats natively. You might try playing with the buffer sizes and see if that helps. If not, I would contact the manufacturer and see if they have any ideas.

JimH · « **Reply #13 on:** April 05, 2022, 04:26:04 pm »

You might check to see if it's on a low power setting. Somewhere in Windows.

Plugging it in might use a different setting.

Antivirus can slow things down.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 06, 2022, 01:36:38 pm »

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the suggestions, I think the laptop has a battery low power mode, I'll try mains and settings and report back.

Steve

SKY1950 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 07, 2022, 02:21:33 pm »

Hi All, I used mains power to run some tests and now Hi Res 192KHz 24bit Flac plays fine unfortunately the DSD 256 file still buffers, tried different settings in memory but no change, can I change the setting between Native and DoP to test ?

Steve

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #16 on:** April 07, 2022, 03:17:14 pm »

You might try contacting the device manufacturer and see if the DAC only supports DoP or both DoP and native DSD. If DoP is supported, it *should* work through WASAPI exclusive along with ASIO, assuming your DAC has a ASIO driver available. If ASIO is an option, in MC's Options > Audio > Device settings there should be a Bitstream DSD in DoP option which will enable DoP. Unchecking that box will force native DSD - WASAPI Exclusive on the other hand is DoP only, so that may be worth experimenting with as well.

The DAC's specs aren't very clear about what it supports, but it does mention this...

Code: [Select]

Supported DSD Rates:
Windows: DSD64, DSD128 and DSD256
MacOS: DSD64 and DSD128

This does imply that it does support at least DoP, since DoP is the only option for DSD on macOS and it doesn't support DSD256 on macOS (but does on Windows, which would require native DSD support along with DoP for macOS). But yeah, other than that, it's kinda odd that it's not working for you, it *should*.

dtc · « **Reply #17 on:** April 07, 2022, 03:35:55 pm »

DSD256 uses 705 KHz for DoP. The specs do not say that the DAC supports 705 KHz, although it may. My guess is you need native and therefore ASIO for DSD 256. But trying DoP with Wasapi is worth a try. Wasapi will automatically do DoP. It does not support native DSD. As AD says, using ASIO there should be a check box option to use DoP.

DJLegba · « **Reply #18 on:** April 07, 2022, 04:02:17 pm »

Looking at your screen shots you are bitstreaming DSD 256 (as you have said) and that doesn't take much CPU power at all (as others have said). I may have missed it somewhere in the thread, but where are the audio files located? If the notebook is pulling the files from somewhere on your network that could easily explain pauses, especially if WiFi is involved somewhere in the connection.

My DAC (exaSound e22) isn't visible to Windows directly. It requires an ASIO driver - and it doesn't do DoP. It sounds like your DAC has the same constraints. If your DAC doesn't show up as an output device in the Windows sound setup it will not work with WASAPI or DoP.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 08, 2022, 04:06:41 am »

Hi Guys, Thanks for the helpfull suggestions, I set Bitstream DSD in DoP still buffing, tried all the WASAPI settings, still buffing, the files are on my Qnap NAS drive, I had the laptop on mains power, hard wired to ethernet, the drivers are downloaded from the ATC website, they have a setup for the ATC CDA2-CD-DAC Preamp images attached, using these settings the problem files are Flac 192KHz 24 bit and DSD 256, Flac 44KHz and 96KHz 24 bit seem okay, I have contacted ATC but still waiting for a reply

Thanks again for the help

Steve

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #20 on:** April 08, 2022, 04:20:21 am »

In that case, it sounds like the NAS and perhaps the network is the bottleneck here. You can verify this by copying some DSD256 files from the NAS to the local drive of your PC, then import them into Media Center and try to play them. If the local DSD256 files play without buffering then it's 100% your NAS and/or network.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 09, 2022, 01:36:22 pm »

Hi AD, thanks for the suggestion, I copied 1 Flac 192 KHz 24 bit and 1 DSD 256 to a folder and imported to MC but still buffing, I have a Linn DSM 3 and although it does not support DSD it plays all my Flac files with no problem, did you look at my screen shots of the MC setup ? have I set it up correctly ?

Thanks for all help
Steve

JimH · « **Reply #22 on:** April 09, 2022, 01:46:18 pm »

Quote from: SKY1950 on April 09, 2022, 01:36:22 pm

I copied 1 Flac 192 KHz 24 bit and 1 DSD 256 to a folder and imported to MC but still buffing,

Is the folder on a local drive? (inside your computer)

SKY1950 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 14, 2022, 04:01:25 am »

Hi Jim,
I have my music files on a Qnap nas to access from my Microsoft Surface 3 Laptop, but to test AD's suggestion I copied the 2 files direct from a PC hard drive to a usb stick then plugged that into my laptop to import into MC, I've attached some image of the ATC CDA 2 setup for JRiver which is how I set the laptop up, I had an answer from ATC they think it's a laptop setup problem ?

Thanks for any help
Steve

JimH · « **Reply #24 on:** April 14, 2022, 07:18:52 am »

Playing the files from a USB stick isn't the same as playing from an internal drive, but did it still buffer? If so, copy them to the hard disk inside the PC and try there.

JimH · « **Reply #25 on:** April 14, 2022, 07:56:42 am »

It's also not clear whether you're testing with a USB connection or with a network connection or both. The device you're playing to may have different capabilities for each.

If you're using a network connection, it's possible that conversion is occurring in MC's DLNA Server. You can edit the conversion settings.

The DSD files are very large so limited network bandwidth could be the cause. Especially when your files are also on a network source.

A test with the playback destination device directly connected via a short USB cable might tell you something.

dtc · « **Reply #26 on:** April 14, 2022, 08:20:16 am »

Quote from: JimH on April 14, 2022, 07:56:42 am

It's also not clear whether you're testing with a USB connection or with a network connection or both.

According to the screen shot above, Audio Path shows a connection using ASIO. So, no DLNA.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 14, 2022, 08:47:41 am »

Hi Guys,
I am connecting my Surface 3 laptop to the ATC cda2 via usb lead, the 192 Khz Flac and 256 DSD buffer when hard wired or wi fi on network, also the audio path is set as per ATC using ASIO, do you suggest DLNA if how do I set that ?

Sorry I'm not technical
Steve

JimH · « **Reply #28 on:** April 14, 2022, 09:27:34 am »

Quote from: SKY1950 on April 14, 2022, 08:47:41 am

I am connecting my Surface 3 laptop to the ATC cda2 via usb lead, the 192 Khz Flac and 256 DSD buffer when hard wired or wi fi on network, also the audio path is set as per ATC using ASIO, do you suggest DLNA if how do I set that ?

Still unclear to me. You're saying USB, hard wired (Ethernet?), and wi fi. All at the same time?

The best test would be

PC connected via short USB cable (under 10 feet) to the playback device, playing media from the hard drive of the PC. If you do that, post results and audio settings you're using.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 14, 2022, 02:17:49 pm »

Hi Jim,
The hi res files buffer with ethernet hard wired or on wi fi, I am using my laptop with MC connected to my atc cda 2 via a usb cable, should I try it disconnected from the internet ?

Steve

DJLegba · « **Reply #30 on:** April 14, 2022, 02:31:34 pm »

Set memory playback to none (ie turn it off). Copy the file to your C: drive. Play it from there. If you have a USB hub between your laptop and the DAC remove it and connect the DAC directly to the laptop's USB port. If you are using an "audiophile" USB cable replace it with a standard USB cable. If you have any kind of USB "cleanup" device between the laptop and the DAC remove it.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #31 on:** April 15, 2022, 02:12:02 pm »

Hi DJLegba, Thanks for the suggestion, I did try turn off memory playback but no change, Hi Res still buffing, file is copied to the laptop drive, using MC to play on the laptop, connected with a standard short usb direct to an ATC CDA 2 which is set as per ATC recommendations, Audio Path and settings images as per previous post.

Steve

AGAWA · « **Reply #32 on:** April 16, 2022, 01:48:35 am »

just to test: check "Output Format" in DSP Studio and see what the result will be. No memory playback.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #33 on:** April 16, 2022, 03:51:14 pm »

Hi AGAWA, well I set as your suggestions and checking output format has played Hi Res fine, what does the tick box change ? I will do more testing tomorrow just to be sure

Steve

AGAWA · « **Reply #34 on:** April 17, 2022, 01:50:33 am »

I do not know. I looked at ATC's settings , they say that with this box unticked no processing will be performed. But I guess that DSP Studio settings decide what will be done with the signal. Creators of MC will be able to answer this question.
MC is very complex and who knows what are the insights.
I had several issues solved by just experimenting with the settings.
Good luck. Be brave. And you will be rewarded with superb sound.

My guess is that only when the box is ticked (any of them) then the settings come into force.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #35 on:** April 17, 2022, 02:18:10 pm »

Hi AGAWA, unfortunately my euphoria was short lived, I run quite a few tracks today and buffing started on Flac or DSD Hi Res files, output box ticked/unticked played from memory off/on, I am waiting an answer from ATC, I know the files are good because they play fine on my Linn DSM 3 (not DSD) anyway all suggestions I welcome as I want to resolve the problems.

Steve

GuySmileysMonkey · « **Reply #36 on:** December 26, 2022, 09:35:35 pm »

@Sky1950

Did this problem get resolved for you? I have a similar issue with the DAC in my SIA2-100 integreated amp. It uses the same Windows driver as the ATC CDA2. At the moment my unit is in the hands of the Australian ATC importer.

I have had no problems with DSD playback, but am unable to playback anything with a higher sample rate than 48 without significant stutter and interruptions. This means that none of the following PCM files on my internal SSD will play back: 24/96, 24/192, 24/384. Here are some observations about the troubleshooting I've done:

1. The problem isn't unique to MC (I've tried 21, 22 & 30), occurring also when playing back with Qobuz and Foobar2000
2. The same files playback without issue on my two other DACs.
3. All settings made in accordance with ATC's manual, but many iterative changes were tried in buffering and playing from memory settings as well as others. No over sampling or down sampling applied
4. Drivers for all other audio devices were removed for testing and Antivirus set to hibernate
5. The most recent Anamaro (they make the USB card in the ATC products) driver for Windows 10 was tried without success in addition to the driver linked to by ATC on their website.
6. 2 x Standard USB data cable used (1.8m) directly between my Windows 10 laptop (more than powerful enough with Intel i7, 16GB RAM and a 2TB SSD) and the DAC with no intervening devices.
7. According to the dealer in whose hands I've left my unit, the DAC works flawlessly with files of all supported sample rates using Roon > Mac as source.
8. Sidenote: the transformer on my unit has a hum, not noticeable at listening distance while music is playing, but noticeable while listening iva headphone output. Could be a problem with the electronics in my home.

Interested to hear what you did to solve the problem. It's very annoying. While file >24/48 make up less than 10% of my digital library, they are many of my favourite albums.

dtc · « **Reply #37 on:** December 27, 2022, 08:44:41 am »

Some questions and suggestions.

What does DSP Studio report? Something may be happening that you are not aware of.

Are your DSD and high sample rate PCM files on the same drive? Any networked drives involved.

What antivirus are you using? Disable anything other than Defended and use the thread at the top of this forum to set the exclusions for Media Center in Defender.

You should be able to play high sample rate PCM without any special drivers. So, I would delete the drivers and use Wasapi and see if that works. Wasapi will work for DoP but not for native DSD. Since the device plays DSD on IOS it probably accept DoP format.

Try both Wasapi and Direct Sound.

Are you using DoP for DSD? In either case (DoP or native) you are sending sample rates greater than 48 KHz. Since that works it seems like the problem is not just sample rate.

Is Volume Protection on or off?

Have your dealer try a Windows system.

Contact the manufacturer for suggestions. They seem to have that model working with JRiver.

By the way, ATC makes great speakers. I did not know they made this amp. Fine company.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 27, 2022, 09:32:20 am »

Hi GuySmileysMonkey,

I had forgot about this post, I tried the suggestions on this forum but no joy, I sent messages to ATC and had some correspondence but no answers so I gave up trying to play DSD through MC on my Hi Fi, I may try the set up again, what I do know is when I play a 192 - 24 bit Flac file on my Naim streamer which is connected to the ATC CDA 2 sounds great but the same file on MC buffers as did a DSD 256,

GuySmileysMonkey · « **Reply #39 on:** December 27, 2022, 11:10:44 pm »

Quote from: SKY1950 on December 27, 2022, 09:32:20 am

Hi GuySmileysMonkey,

I had forgot about this post, I tried the suggestions on this forum but no joy, I sent messages to ATC and had some correspondence but no answers so I gave up trying to play DSD through MC on my Hi Fi, I may try the set up again, what I do know is when I play a 192 - 24 bit Flac file on my Naim streamer which is connected to the ATC CDA 2 sounds great but the same file on MC buffers as did a DSD 256,

Thanks for responding.

Does your Naim stream have both an inbuilt DAC and digital outputs? If so, do you use the DAC in the CSA 2 or your streamer?

GuySmileysMonkey · « **Reply #40 on:** December 27, 2022, 11:16:36 pm »

Quote from: dtc on December 27, 2022, 08:44:41 am

Some questions and suggestions.

What does DSP Studio report? Something may be happening that you are not aware of.

Are your DSD and high sample rate PCM files on the same drive? Any networked drives involved.

What antivirus are you using? Disable anything other than Defended and use the thread at the top of this forum to set the exclusions for Media Center in Defender.

You should be able to play high sample rate PCM without any special drivers. So, I would delete the drivers and use Wasapi and see if that works. Wasapi will work for DoP but not for native DSD. Since the device plays DSD on IOS it probably accept DoP format.

Try both Wasapi and Direct Sound.

Are you using DoP for DSD? In either case (DoP or native) you are sending sample rates greater than 48 KHz. Since that works it seems like the problem is not just sample rate.

Is Volume Protection on or off?

Have your dealer try a Windows system.

Contact the manufacturer for suggestions. They seem to have that model working with JRiver.

By the way, ATC makes great speakers. I did not know they made this amp. Fine company.

Thank you kindly for these suggestions.

If my dealer can't reproduce the problem and sends the ATC SIA2-100 back to me with the issue unresolved I'll follow through with the steps you've outlined. In the meantime, he does intend testing with a Windows machine. I'll just wait while my newly purchased ATC SCM-11s and ATC C1 sub sit in contemplative silence, wondering why I've deserted them.

Yep - ATC make great speakers. Wish I was listening to them right now LOL..

SKY1950 · « **Reply #41 on:** December 28, 2022, 06:32:53 am »

Hi GuySmileysMonkey,

I use the RCA connections out of the Naim to RCA inputs of the CDA 2 MK2 so I think I'm using the Naim Dac to the pre amp in the ATC, I have posted the question of JRiver playing DSD 256 to the ATC forum to see if anyone uses this combination, I will update this post if anyone answers !

Steve

GuySmileysMonkey · « **Reply #42 on:** December 28, 2022, 08:33:57 pm »

Quote from: SKY1950 on December 28, 2022, 06:32:53 am

Hi GuySmileysMonkey,

I use the RCA connections out of the Naim to RCA inputs of the CDA 2 MK2 so I think I'm using the Naim Dac to the pre amp in the ATC, I have posted the question of JRiver playing DSD 256 to the ATC forum to see if anyone uses this combination, I will update this post if anyone answers !

Steve

Thanks for that Steve. Much appreciated.

When you say the music is "buffering", what does this mean? Does it play, but with continual interruptions and stuttering of the sound, or does it not make any sound at all?

SKY1950 · « **Reply #43 on:** December 29, 2022, 02:32:41 pm »

Hi GuySmileysMonkey,

Yes it plays but stutters as though the file is too big to play smooth but the smaller files from ripped CD's play fine, no response from ATC as yet.

Steve

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #44 on:** December 29, 2022, 05:47:04 pm »

Posting a screenshot of the audio path when playing back a track likely would be very helpful.

GuySmileysMonkey · « **Reply #45 on:** December 29, 2022, 05:54:58 pm »

Quote from: SKY1950 on December 29, 2022, 02:32:41 pm

Hi GuySmileysMonkey,

Yes it plays but stutters as though the file is too big to play smooth but the smaller files from ripped CD's play fine, no response from ATC as yet.

Steve

Yep - Same experience as mine.

Yesterday I contacted the dealer helping me with my issue. He tried getting in touch with ATC, but apparently they're closed until 3 January.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #46 on:** December 30, 2022, 04:04:59 am »

Hi Awesome Donkey,

Unfortunately this is an old thread, but there are images of audio path attached some time back I think.

Steve

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #47 on:** December 30, 2022, 04:21:32 am »

If you're still using memory playback, try disabling that.

SKY1950 · « **Reply #48 on:** December 31, 2022, 01:37:28 pm »

Hi Awesome Donkey,

Just checked Memory Playback is disabled.

Steve

GuySmileysMonkey · « **Reply #49 on:** January 04, 2023, 09:54:18 pm »

Hi there @Sky1950.

Have you heard back from ATC? They should be operating again now after the Christmas / New Year break. Speaking of which, hope you had a good one.

Nathan

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Author Topic: Laptop Specifications To Play DSD Files (Read 8468 times)