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[zoom+slomo]

.........try using a hardware scaler (bilinear or fastbicubic) and disabling HA decoding for testing just to rule out source material issues.

As I want to build a virtually silent HTPC I can't go with a heavyweight GPU to run something like madVR. Therefore, could you suggest a hardwired box for scaling TV shows and movies on commercially produced and pressed DVDs (Warners, Paramount, Sony, Fox) played on JRiver to display on a 1080p 50" plasma TV? Is there a particular box for ~ $800. ?

Also, is there any reason why using the chosen box to scale from 480i up to only 720, and then let, say a late model Panasonic plasma, scale the rest of the way to 1080? Likewise, would this scheme make sense if instead using a very late model 48 or 55" Sony OLED TV?

Viewing distance 10 to 11 feet in a dimly lit room with the screen brightness reduced accordingly. Please advise.

[BryanC]

As I want to build a virtually silent HTPC I can't go with a heavyweight GPU to run something like madVR. Therefore, could you suggest a hardwired box for scaling TV shows and movies on commercially produced and pressed DVDs (Warners, Paramount, Sony, Fox) played on JRiver to display on a 1080p 50" plasma TV? Is there a particular box for ~ $800. ?

Also, is there any reason why using the chosen box to scale from 480i up to only 720, and then let, say a late model Panasonic plasma, scale the rest of the way to 1080? Likewise, would this scheme make sense if instead using a very late model 48 or 55" Sony OLED TV?

Viewing distance 10 to 11 feet in a dimly lit room with the screen brightness reduced accordingly. Please advise.

Any modern APU is capable of hardware upscaling to 1080p. Old laptops make good cheap HTPCs since there is usually a glut of them and they have low-power usage, and a built-in battery backup, keyboard, and secondary display for setup/maintenance. It'll be more flexible to get an external DVD drive and connect it to a laptop or mini-PC as most modern computers will not come with one. As a basic guideline you probably shouldn't need anything beyond a 25W APU to pull this off, so U-series mobile Intel APUs are a good balance between power usage|noise and price (I've had issues with JRVR and mobile Ryzen, so cannot recommend). You can get those in NUC or other mini-PC form-factor (enterprise thin-client PCs are cheap and reliable), or in a laptop as I already mentioned.

For future proofing you'll want something with an HDMI 2.0 (better) or HDMI 2.1 (best) port along with h.265/vc-1 hardware decoding, but for your current needs HDMI 1.4 is sufficient and basically any computer from the last decade will work.

JRVR will only scale to your hardware device's resolution, there really isn't a reason to let your TV do any of the upscaling as the JRVR algos are generally better and more flexible. And upscaling to 1080p is no sweat even for the weeniest of integrated GPUs.

[zoom+slomo]

My quiet HTPC plan is still evolving-mostly due to GPU/fan noise/case size concerns versus whether madVR is the only viable solution for DVD scaling to 1080p. But I may even be too noobie to get enough of the way up madVR's learning curve to make my best DVDs as good on a later model 50" Panasonic plasma as this Lumagen box can. https://www.avsforum.com/threads/sold-lumagen-radiance-mini-3d-300.3171076/

And if I could what would be the fan noise and case size consequences? Would I have go from this sized case
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=233&area=en to this for scaling DVDs to 1080p?
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=241&area=en 

Also, unlike many JRiver users here I'd never be taking time to rip my DVDs and BDs to store in a server and have another box clutter my room-AND certainly not if the lossless DTS-MA would have to be compressed into some lossy heaven knows what! Indeed, along with region free BD playback and fully functional zoom control, a huge reason to choose JRiver is that its
suppose to offer flawless DTS-MA decoding via USB for my DAC of choice. https://www.exasound.com/Products/e688-channelDAC.aspx

So why then after so many versions is JRiver still unable to read BD or even a DVD menu? I means it's kind of shocking considering it ought to be a pretty basic feature, especially if other Windows players have it. How then are users supposed to access movie and TV episode scenes? And special features like isolated music scores and actor/director interviews?

And I can do all this via a wireless keyboard and mouse?

Alternately, is there a real "go to" handheld learning remote with the most functionality-including zoom control and zoomed image shifting control (like I do with my Pioneer LX500 BD player)?
   

[JimH]

JRiver does provide BD and DVD menus.

[zoom+slomo]

JRiver does provide BD and DVD menus.

Great to know. Thanks!

[zoom+slomo]

Any modern APU is capable of hardware upscaling to 1080p. Old laptops make good cheap HTPCs since there is usually a glut of them and they have low-power usage, and a built-in battery backup, keyboard, and secondary display for setup/maintenance. It'll be more flexible to get an external DVD drive and connect it to a laptop or mini-PC as most modern computers will not come with one. As a basic guideline you probably shouldn't need anything beyond a 25W APU to pull this off, so U-series mobile Intel APUs are a good balance between power usage|noise and price (I've had issues with JRVR and mobile Ryzen, so cannot recommend). You can get those in NUC or other mini-PC form-factor (enterprise thin-client PCs are cheap and reliable), or in a laptop as I already mentioned.

For future proofing you'll want something with an HDMI 2.0 (better) or HDMI 2.1 (best) port along with h.265/vc-1 hardware decoding, but for your current needs HDMI 1.4 is sufficient and basically any computer from the last decade will work.

JRVR will only scale to your hardware device's resolution, there really isn't a reason to let your TV do any of the upscaling as the JRVR algos are generally better and more flexible. And upscaling to 1080p is no sweat even for the weeniest of integrated GPUs.

? I can't understand your reply. I can't count the number of posts here from JRiver users who must have huge reasons for passing on JRVR and instead using GPU hungry madVR instead! Here's just one of countless users. https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,126951.msg919679.html#msg919679  The OP's using an Nvidia 1650 card, and it's unlikely a fanless model. Here's another madVR user with I think an even more muscular Nvidia 1070 card. https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,132706.msg919780.html#msg919780

Or powerful scaler boxes like this. http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=radianceMini_details

Who would ever spend serious time grappling with madVR's not especially tiny learning curve and tweaking options if, as you say, the built-in graphics of modern multicore Intel CPU has plenty of power for making DVDs look great on 50" plasma-not to mention the latest top model 48 to 55" Sony OLED-all of which are 4K? If I'm wrong about this PLEASE set me straight.   

[jmone]

The new JRVR is very efficient and produces a great image without the learning curve of madVR.  I run it on old NUCs - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,118012.0.html

You will not be able to use the most powerful scaling options but punching out a good looking image to a 1080p plasma should be fine.  You just want a modern enough CPU/iGPU that it has MPEG2/AVC/HEVC HW Decoding.  If you plan to play directly from DVD's (not rips) then you will need a decoder like AnyDVD running in the background.  MC supports both DVD/BD Full Menu and "Title" playback.  For testing, hook up any old "modern-ish" PC with the latest version of MC29 and give it a go.

[zoom+slomo]

The new JRVR is very efficient and produces a great image without the learning curve of madVR.  I run it on old NUCs - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,118012.0.html

You will not be able to use the most powerful scaling options but punching out a good looking image to a 1080p plasma should be fine.  You just want a modern enough CPU/iGPU that it has MPEG2/AVC/HEVC HW Decoding.  If you plan to play directly from DVD's (not rips) then you will need a decoder like AnyDVD running in the background.  MC supports both DVD/BD Full Menu and "Title" playback.  For testing, hook up any old "modern-ish" PC with the latest version of MC29 and give it a go.

Well, there's certainly some very good news here. Sure, I have no problem running Any DVD HD to play my BDs. But unfortunately, neither of my 35 watt TDP CPUs of choice have on board graphics. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/199341/intel-xeon-w1290t-processor-20m-cache-1-90-ghz.html
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/212269/intel-xeon-w1390t-processor-16m-cache-up-to-4-90-ghz.html 

Therefore, my builder strongly suggested this fanless card. https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Graphics-Cards/ASUS/GT1030-SL-2G-BRK/   But how well would that card work with JRVR for my DVDs on the 50" 1080p plasma?

Assuming your answer is "great!" here's my other question: If I later wanted to output to a top model 48 or 55" Sony OLED, will my DVDs being JRVR upscaled to 1080p be good enough for the Sony OLED's AI processor to make them look as good as they did on the plasma? Of course, I'm NOT expecting miracles, just curious.

Also, is a wireless keyboard and mouse still the best way to access all the DVD/BD transport functionality, or is JRiver now at the stage where you can recommend fairly specific handheld remote hardware to do all of this? I'm especially concerned about accessing zoom control and zoomed image shifting to center DVD and BD images on the screen.

Lastly, any chance of the next version having a slow motion feature like my Oppo 95 and Pioneer LX500 BD players? 
 
 

[jmone]

I'd not recommend any GPU with only 2GB of RAM.... I don't have anything to test but you see posts about issues with these on some setups.  That said, the 1030 is no powerhouse it is much more powerful than the NUC's iGPU & the iGPU on that Xeon 1390T (I'd not touch the Xeon 1290t as its iGPU is much more limited) ... yes, both the Xeons you linked to have iGPU (though I'm not familiar with the P designation).  You could see how the w1390T goes and add a fanless card (or a fanned card where you alter the fan curve so it is near silent) card later if it struggles?

I've had Pio Plasmas, now Sony & LG OLEDS but have always done all the scaling in the HTPC.  While I loved my plasma, the OLEDS are also good and the new range of QD-OLED TV's coming out later this year are expected to be much better than both.

I use Remote Controls (Harmony) on my HTPC in conjunction with TheaterView but also have all in one Keyboard/Track pad for when needed to do windows stuff.  You can access the BD/DVD menu stuff from either.  I've no idea on the Zoom/Shifting/Slomo as I don't use these.... but you can test yourself in MC29 on any PC with a screen.  Press Up/Down arrow when playing in TheaterView and you will get a wide range of option.

[bogdanbz]

I notice that nobody is mentioning fanless cases designed to support high TDP CPU and graphic cards. I have a MonsterLabo Beast fanless case for my PC which supports graphics cards up to 260W TDP (I use a RTX 3090 in it with custom power curve), but you can get a smaller The First case more suitable for just video playback. https://www.monsterlabo.com

The only issue is that the cases are not cheap, and they come on stock from time to time, but you do get fanless operation with powerful CPU and graphic cards in them.

Here's two photos with the side panels removed (I'm using postimg, as the forum software is scaling the images horizontally):

[Hendrik]

The OPs budget allows for neither high-end components, nor really spending half of it on the case already. A case with a single large slow spinning fan is practically silent, unless you are like in a sound-controlled chamber.

[bogdanbz]

I was not planning on spending this much on just a case, either. But in the end I had to, as I live in a silent environment (it's the surroundings of the place one lives that give the background noise level), where I can hear a 9dB rated Noctua NF-A14 ULN fan running at 600 rpm.

[mkolmar]

I am using a fanless industrial PC with an Intel Celeron J1900 @ 1.99GHz, no other GPU. It was originally spec'ed to be able to play hi-res audio with a modest amount of DSP (e.g. DSD to PCM, EQ). However, it has worked relatively well for DVD and Blu Ray, albeit only with the most modest MadVR settings. This PC is right at the line where anything less powerful would not work, and a more powerful one would be a better idea. GPU flush had to be disabled to stop severe artefacts sometimes during Blu Ray playback. 30fps HD can be iffy. Blu Ray with VC-1 encoded video is too much to handle. Otherwise, the internal GPU is able to upscale chroma, dither, and draw 1080p to the screen. But, again, barely. With DVD, luma or the whole frame also has to be upscaled.

Similar fanless PCs are available where a GPU card can live in a vented compartment, generally with a fan on the card that would run as needed. I feel this is a fair compromise with reality for video playback, and what I would get now. The optical drive can make a fair amount of noise, too, worse with some discs than others.

[zoom+slomo]

I'd not recommend any GPU with only 2GB of RAM.... I don't have anything to test but you see posts about issues with these on some setups.  That said, the 1030 is no powerhouse it is much more powerful than the NUC's iGPU & the iGPU on that Xeon 1390T (I'd not touch the Xeon 1290t as it's iGPU is much more limited) ... yes, both the Xeons you linked to have iGPU (though I'm not familiar with the P designation).  You could see how the w1390T goes and add a fanless card (or a fanned card where you alter the fan curve so it is near silent) card later if it struggles?

I've had Pio Plasmas, now Sony & LG OLEDS but have always done all the scaling in the HTPC.  While I loved my plasma, the OLEDS are also good and the new range of QD-OLED TV's coming out later this year are expected to be much better than both.

The professional "P" series designation specifies the Intel 750 graphics for Xeon Rocket Lake Xeon CPUs, like the 1390T https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Graphics_Technology#Xe_LP_Architecture_(Gen12) and Comet Lake Xeon 1290T.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Graphics_Technology#Kaby_Lake_Refresh_/_Amber_Lake_/_Coffee_Lake_/_Coffee_Lake_Refresh_/_Whiskey_Lake_/_Comet_Lake

But since you and my builder agree that it's far preferable going with a video card rather than expecting even the better P750 graphics in the 1390T CPU to do 1080p scaling with JRVR, is there any significant benefit of going with the 1290T CPU? It's got 10 cores to the 1390T's 8 cores and 1.9GHz vs. 1.5GHz. And the 1390T's lowest turbo frequency is 4.8GHz vs. the 1290T's 4.6GHz, presumably allowing the latter more leeway to cooler (?).

As for GPU hardware to scale DVDs to 1080p, I appreciate the apparent reluctance here to recommend a scaler box in favor of scaling software, though I'd still like opinions here on this particular box versus JRVR and, say an Nvidia 1650 card.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/sold-lumagen-radiance-mini-3d-300.3171076/

In any case, however, GPU card selection and its cooling scheme must fit between virtually silent fan noise and pc case size tolerances. But at least for the latter concern there's good news.

While my goal still (however unpopular) is to place the desktop htpc and some other hardware under the 50" to 55" TV mounted on a stand like this, https://www.perlesmith.com/products/perlesmith-universal-swivel-tv-stand-base-table-top-tv-stand-for-37-65-inch-lcd-led-tvs-height-adjustable-tv-mount-stand-with-tempered-glass-base-vesa-600x400mm-holds-up-to-88lbs-pstvs13?_pos=1&_sid=e9c466ae3&_ss=r&variant=39999810601069  after making all relevant placement measurements using my sister's Panasonic TH-50pz700 50" plasma, with its 24.5" screen height, 12.25" screen center and 4.5" wide (!!) bottom bezel to generate worst case numbers, the screen would be centered (or even ideally a few degrees below) at seated eye level on my chair 10.5 feet away, while the bottom bezel is ~ 14.25" above the floor. That would leave plenty of space for pc cases like these to fit underneath.
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=233&area=en
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=241&area=en

So unless you would recommend some exotic solution-like having the GPU card external to the pc case (y/n??) instead of a presumably far more expensive water cooled scheme-please now recommend one or more make/model fanned or fanless GPU cards for easy and quiet 1080p scaling with JRVR.

Ideally, of course, an efficient GPU card combined with a 35 watt CPU will allow my builder to minimize the number of case fans.

As for TVs, my concern is how much better would the AI in Sony's top model 2022 QL-OLED's processor make my DVDs-up scaled by JRVR to 1080p-look, versus a 50" 2012 Panasonic plasma. Indeed, as far less people watch DVDs at all today how likely would that processor's AI interpolative powers even be designed for that task?

The OPs budget allows for neither high-end components, nor really spending half of it on the case already. A case with a single large slow spinning fan is practically silent, unless you are like in a sound-controlled chamber.

My budget for this pc is ~ $3.4K, if needed to my goals require. But please review my revised situation.

[tij]

? I can't understand your reply. I can't count the number of posts here from JRiver users who must have huge reasons for passing on JRVR and instead using GPU hungry madVR instead! Here's just one of countless users. https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,126951.msg919679.html#msg919679  The OP's using an Nvidia 1650 card, and it's unlikely a fanless model. Here's another madVR user with I think an even more muscular Nvidia 1070 card. https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,132706.msg919780.html#msg919780

Or powerful scaler boxes like this. http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=radianceMini_details

Who would ever spend serious time grappling with madVR's not especially tiny learning curve and tweaking options if, as you say, the built-in graphics of modern multicore Intel CPU has plenty of power for making DVDs look great on 50" plasma-not to mention the latest top model 48 to 55" Sony OLED-all of which are 4K? If I'm wrong about this PLEASE set me straight.   

Lol ... its not for everyone ... but I love 3D movies ... hence, need for MadVR. MadVR also does great HDR tone mapping for people with projectors ... but now JRVR can do that too (post you refer to are quite old ... JRVR really caught up fast in few month)

Also in the past, builds around MadVR can be fraction of Lumagen "boxes" price, yet give on par or better results. Lol ... if you need to ask why ppl use MadVR with power hungry GPU, then likely JRVR should meet all your needs (its a really good renderer ... which in time might surpass MadVR as MadVR has not seen stable release in ages.)

As to why some ppl use MadVR ... like audiophiles, videophiles is a hobby ... spend countless hours to get your perfect picture ... and then stand back, smile, and enjoy it

As for 1070 ... its a relic that i used for gaming long ago ... i still occasionally game on my HTPC ... games that can be played with controller on couch ... nothing serious that require keyboard/mouse (FYI ... 1070 sits in dedicated room with my NAS server .. and i just run HDMI and USB cable to viewing room cause distance is not so great)

As I want to build a virtually silent HTPC I can't go with a heavyweight GPU to run something like madVR. Therefore, could you suggest a hardwired box for scaling TV shows and movies on commercially produced and pressed DVDs (Warners, Paramount, Sony, Fox) played on JRiver to display on a 1080p 50" plasma TV? Is there a particular box for ~ $800. ?

Also, is there any reason why using the chosen box to scale from 480i up to only 720, and then let, say a late model Panasonic plasma, scale the rest of the way to 1080? Likewise, would this scheme make sense if instead using a very late model 48 or 55" Sony OLED TV?

Viewing distance 10 to 11 feet in a dimly lit room with the screen brightness reduced accordingly. Please advise.

In the post you quoted ... i did mention HDPLEX silent case that can do 95W tdp GPU without fan (1650 for reference is 75W tdp), which is plenty for MadVR. These things are not cheap cause they use solid copper and aluminum to dissipate heat, copper aint cheap and time it takes to machine it is not cheap either.

As for scaler box ... at $800 budget ... why you need it if you use HTPC with JRVR? ... JRVR already has a very good upscaler.

If you dont want PC to render videos ... just use PC to serve video over LAN ... and use TV to render it ... modern TV (especially in Sony OLED range) have powerful processors that produce really decent result ... my Sony non OLED can do Dolby Vision mkv, so now my Nvidia Shield PRO is in storage

As for $800 dollars ... I would get some professional to calibrate Sony OLED you mentioned and it will probably would do a better job than budget scaler with lots of left over cash

[zoom+slomo]

In the post you quoted ... i did mention HDPLEX silent case that can do 95W tdp GPU without fan (1650 for reference is 75W tdp), which is plenty for MadVR. These things are not cheap cause they use solid copper and aluminum to dissipate heat, copper aint cheap and time it takes to machine it is not cheap either.

As for scaler box ... at $800 budget ... why you need it if you use HTPC with JRVR? ... JRVR already has a very good upscaler.

If you dont want PC to render videos ... just use PC to serve video over LAN ... and use TV to render it ... modern TV (especially in Sony OLED range) have powerful processors that produce really decent result ... my Sony non OLED can do Dolby Vision mkv, so now my Nvidia Shield PRO is in storage

As for $800 dollars ... I would get some professional to calibrate Sony OLED you mentioned and it will probably would do a better job than budget scaler with lots of left over cash

No doubt, if I go with the OLED, or even the plasma, I’d want it professionally calibrated.

Very glad that a seasoned user of madVR has great things to say about the apparently robust JRVR upgrade in this latest JRiver version. But as I was hoping jmone and/or Hendrik would, please confirm if JRVR uses much core and/or speed resources from the CPU. The Intel 1290T, 1390T are 35 watts at their base speeds but go as high as 125 watts in turbo mode, in which case coolers would be needed, though my builder would likely be adding that anyway.   

Yes/no? Please advise.

So there may be hope for my best produced DVDs to look respectable on the last Panasonic plasma models and/or Sony OLEDs. But as I’ve reiterated, a virtually silent pc is one of my main goals. And as you’ve also reiterated, HDPlex pcs use costly GPU card cooling solutions and where total system build time may setback completion of this already way overdue pc. Of course, upon visiting their website, I did like that major heat pipe use (?) not only keeps HDPlex pcs silent but reduces pc
case size.

OTOH, Steiger says they can guarantee “virtually” silent operation with my original case https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=283&area=en but only with that 2GB 1030GT card, but which is clearly not adequate for JRVR.

All of the above was why I last discussed here switching to either of these larger cases:
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=233&area=en
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=241&area=en

If you can suggest better alternative cases please do. Otherwise, I’d ask Steiger if using one of them will keep the 1650 card nearly as cool and quiet as the fanless 1030GT.

Compared to my Pioneer LX500 BD player’s 28 watt power draw (and no fan), there’s certainly no free lunch when pursuing quality upscaling. It’s going to require hardware that gets hot-and even the heat that a silent HDPlex pc throws off will be added to your room’s heat-generates some amount of fan noise and/or needs to be in a larger case.

Or one can opt for a standalone scaler box that will likely be expensive but will minimize GPU card issues and pc case size-which for me would otherwise be 75 watts and at least 35 watts for the GPU and CPU, versus only 13 watts for the Lumagen.  http://www.lumagen.com/docs/RadianceMini_3D_Brochure_030111.pdf

So that’s why I thought of that Lumagen box, if I could get one at a good price.

[S. Pupp]

My HTPC is built with off-the-shelf parts, and is virtually silent.  It looks like a receiver, is about the same size, and may not be what you are looking for, but I mention it here for anyone interested in building a quiet HTPC.

It has a power supply with an "eco" mode that keeps the fan off (Seasonic FOCUS PX-550)
Logic board is an Asus B450 Pro Gaming board.
CPU is AMD Ryzen 5 2600 with a Noctua low profile quiet cooler (Noctua NH-L12S).
GPU is a Palit GTX-1050TI.  This is supposedly a quiet gpu, but not quiet enough as far as I am concerned.  I replaced its cooler with a very quiet Arctic Accelero L2 Plus cooler.
It has an SSD for storage.
The case is old - nMediaPC 5000B.

Media is stored on a NAS (TrueNAS) in another room.

I rarely hear the HTPC, and when I do, it sounds like distant wind - no distinct whine or whistle.  I don't notice any more noise than when I had a Ryzen 5 3400G with built-in GPU, but get better performance overall with the discrete gpu and extra 2 cores in the cpu in my current setup.

[zoom+slomo]

I rarely hear the HTPC, and when I do, it sounds like distant wind - no distinct whine or whistle.  I don't notice any more noise than when I had a Ryzen 5 3400G with built-in GPU, but get better performance overall with the discrete gpu and extra 2 cores in the cpu in my current setup.

Your pc case, SSD storage drive and (Seasonic FOCUS PX-550) is very similar to my planned build.

Here’s a movable chart showing a 25% performance jump from the 1050ti to the 1650ti. 
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gtx-1050-ti.c2885 and
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/nvidia-gtx-1650-vs-1050-ti but both are the fan versions.

I’m no expert but from what I can make of this review your card seems to offer impressive performance for a fanless card. https://www.techpowerup.com/review/palit-geforce-gtx-1050-ti-kalmx/35.html

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/palit-geforce-gtx-1050-ti-kalmx/29.html

And this must be the step up or successor to the 1050ti fanless
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/palit-geforce-gtx-1650-kalmx/

It has a 7 degrees C higher idle temp. Thus, assuming your case is similar to these
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=233&area=en
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=241&area=en

that card would need more cooling than your card, which I’d have to leave up to my builder to decide if the 1650 fanless card could still achieve my noise goals. The good news is that both cards are 4GB vs the 2GB in that 1030GT he said to go with.

With my speakers off I can barely hear the fan in my Oppo BD player inside of a wood TV stand from 10 feet. Perhaps that’s what you hear in your HTPC; “like distant wind - no distinct whine or whistle.”

But when you say that you get “better performance overall with the discrete gpu and extra 2 cores in the cpu in my current setup”, what programs are you running?

madVR or JRVR to scale DVDs or other standard resolution source material to 1080p?? Or to scale 1080p BDs to 4K?

[S. Pupp]

I’m no expert but from what I can make of this review your card seems to offer impressive performance for a fanless card. https://www.techpowerup.com/review/palit-geforce-gtx-1050-ti-kalmx/35.html

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/palit-geforce-gtx-1050-ti-kalmx/29.html

And this must be the step up or successor to the 1050ti fanless
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/palit-geforce-gtx-1650-kalmx/

It has a 7 degrees C higher idle temp. Thus, assuming your case is similar to these
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=233&area=en
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=241&area=en

that card would need more cooling than your card, which I’d have to leave up to my builder to decide if the 1650 fanless card could still achieve my noise goals. The good news is that both cards are 4GB vs the 2GB in that 1030GT he said to go with.

With my speakers off I can barely hear the fan in my Oppo BD player inside of a wood TV stand from 10 feet. Perhaps that’s what you hear in your HTPC; “like distant wind - no distinct whine or whistle.”

But when you say that you get “better performance overall with the discrete gpu and extra 2 cores in the cpu in my current setup”, what programs are you running?

madVR or JRVR to scale DVDs or other standard resolution source material to 1080p?? Or to scale 1080p BDs to 4K?

The Palit GTX-1050Ti I'm using is not the fanless one (it's size wouldn't have allowed me to close my case) - it is one with a "quiet" fan.
The "quiet" fan was quite audible, with an irritating clicking sound.  The Arctic Accelero I cooler/fan I replaced it with, on the other hand, is totally inaudible from my listening position.
The wind sound I hear is coming entirely from the low profile Noctua cpu heat sink.

My computer runs JRiver, a browser for facebook and youtube, and VidCoder to convert recorded mpeg-2 video to HEVC.  VidCoder (based on Handbrake) runs much better with the older 6 core cpu I'm using now, than the newer 4 core cpu I'm no longer using.

I scale to 1080p - I'm not using 4k at all.

When I built this iteration of my HTPC, JRVR was not yet available, so I was using MadVR.  Now that JRVR is available, I'm using it, and the discrete card might be overkill.

[mkolmar]

This may be a helpful comparison. I do not know how far the performance advantages take it. That is, can HD 520 integrated graphics upscale chroma using Jinc for example on 1080p BD, or not even that, or much better.

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-HD-Graphics-Bay-Trail-0667---0854-GHz-vs-Intel-HD-520-Mobile-Skylake/m7698vsm36797

The left is supposed to be the integrated graphics of Intel J1900, which as I mentioned is almost exactly on the margins of functional BD playback. The right is integrated graphics in another industrial fanless PC -- think sawdust, etc. -- below the higher models that are considerably more expensive and/or the fanless part is attached to an expansion case where a GPU can live.

[zoom+slomo]

This may be a helpful comparison. I do not know how far the performance advantages take it........and/or the fanless part is attached to an expansion case where a GPU can live.

Your build and where I think that I should (?) be going with mine build will be using way too different hardware and scaling software for my limited understanding to make useful comparisons. And that comparative tool at that link didn't let me make comparisons between the Intel p630 and UHD 770 graphics, nor with that Palit 1050ti or 1060ti fanless cards.

I was on a roll until S. Pupp informed me that his is not the fanless version of the 1050ti card, and that properly heatsinked to minimize noise would require no top on his case and mine-to say nothing of the step fanless 1060ti card I thought was all but a slam dunk.

Now I don't know what card and what case to discuss with my builder for 1080p scaling-or even is a card is actually needed with JRVR, depending on Xeon Comet or Rocket lake or ECC supporting Adler Lake Core CPU and its onboard graphics, and 2012-13 Panasonic plasma or late model Sony OLED TV. 

OR, like you mention, having the card external to the case? If you think this is wise and practical please give links to such hardware options. My budget for this desktop htpc is ~ $2.7K but absolutely MUST get it ALL done right the first time! 

 

[zoom+slomo]

The Palit GTX-1050Ti I'm using is not the fanless one (it's size wouldn't have allowed me to close my case) - it is one with a "quiet" fan.
The "quiet" fan was quite audible, with an irritating clicking sound.  The Arctic Accelero I cooler/fan I replaced it with, on the other hand, is totally inaudible from my listening position.
The wind sound I hear is coming entirely from the low profile Noctua cpu heat sink.

My computer runs JRiver, a browser for facebook and youtube, and VidCoder to convert recorded mpeg-2 video to HEVC.  VidCoder (based on Handbrake) runs much better with the older 6 core cpu I'm using now, than the newer 4 core cpu I'm no longer using.

I scale to 1080p - I'm not using 4k at all.

When I built this iteration of my HTPC, JRVR was not yet available, so I was using MadVR.  Now that JRVR is available, I'm using it, and the discrete card might be overkill.

Yikes, we're all over the damned map with hardware differences. I'd likely had gone with a Ryzen CPU but need guaranteed ECC RAM support and AMD support couldn't assure me on this. So even though much of your scaling tasks to 1080p seem to be DVD quality mp-2 files (my chief concern), if you now switch to using your Ryzyn's GPU instead of the card, how meaningfully could I compare performance of that with the P630 graphics in Comet/Rocket lake or 770 graphics in Adler lake CPUs? There's just too many variables at this stage to know how to pick and  buy parts-even just pc cases-to build with confidence. 

[JimH]

I'd not touch the Xeon 1290t as its iGPU is much more limited

That seems like good advice.  Xeon's aren't commonly used for audio and video.

I saw Steiger mentioned above.  He knows what he's doing.  Very experienced.

[zoom+slomo]

That seems like good advice.  Xeon's aren't commonly used for audio and video. I saw Steiger mentioned above.  He knows what he's doing.  Very experienced.

Thanks so much for checking out Steiger; my confidence level's starting to climb again. Again, until select Alder lake Core CPUs were out Xeon was the only sure bet for ECC support.

But please review and compare the former's P630 graphics with the latter's 770 graphics.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/uhd-graphics-p630.c3452
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/uhd-graphics-770.c3844

Is the 770 that much better that a reasonably powerful but quiet GPU card would not work far better with JRVR to scale DVDs to 1080p?

[zoom+slomo]

The Palit GTX-1050Ti I'm using is not the fanless one (it's size wouldn't have allowed me to close my case) - it is one with a "quiet" fan. The "quiet" fan was quite audible, with an irritating clicking sound.  The Arctic Accelero I cooler/fan I replaced it with, on the other hand, is totally inaudible from my listening position. The wind sound I hear is coming entirely from the low profile Noctua cpu heat sink.

Sort of getting nowhere fast with this. The brands of both your case
  https://manualzz.com/doc/24333797/htpc-5000b---nmediapc.com and this one https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=241&area=en both classify them as microATX, yet both have substantially different dimensions.

Now to properly fit your card and that quiet cooler I don't know if I'd be safe with that GD05 or have to move to this bigger ATX case https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=488&area=en  And a tower case won't work as I want to place the pc on the floor under the plasma or OLED suspended on a VESA stand.

[JimH]

I'm a software guy, but why do you need ECC memory?

[zoom+slomo]

I'm a software guy, but why do you need ECC memory?

Many at hydrogenaudio, gearspace and numerous other forums say it's the fundamental way to prevent bit errors when creating, downloading, backing up et al. Great insurance, I'd would think.

[zoom+slomo]

I'd not recommend any GPU with only 2GB of RAM.... I don't have anything to test but you see posts about issues with these on some setups.  That said, the 1030 is no powerhouse it is much more powerful than the NUC's iGPU & the iGPU on that Xeon 1390T (I'd not touch the Xeon 1290t as its iGPU is much more limited) ... yes, both the Xeons you linked to have iGPU (though I'm not familiar with the P designation).  You could see how the w1390T goes and add a fanless card (or a fanned card where you alter the fan curve so it is near silent) card later if it struggles?

Review and compare the former's P630 graphics with the latter's 770 graphics?
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/uhd-graphics-p630.c3452
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/uhd-graphics-770.c3844

Is the 770 that much better that a reasonably powerful but quiet GPU card would not work far better with JRVR to scale DVDs to 1080p?

[jmone]

I have no experience with the Xeon version of the iGPU but do with the "std" iGPU - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,118012.0.html

These iGPU are fine with lower scaling settings with JRVR with the extra processing power of dedicated GPUs allowing for more compute JRVR scaling alogs.  The better the GPU the more options you have for scaling algos. 

One option is to buy the CPU/Mobo setup you want.  Try it and if you are not happy with the output, then later add the GPU if needed.  Lower Cost, Low Risk.

[JimH]

Many at hydrogenaudio, gearspace and numerous other forums say it's the fundamental way to prevent bit errors when creating, downloading, backing up et al. Great insurance, I'd would think.

Be cautious about what people say on forums.

Bit errors with memory are very rare.  There are utilities to check any memory. 

[zoom+slomo]

Be cautious about what people say on forums.

Bit errors with memory are very rare.  There are utilities to check any memory. 

True, they are rare, but while I’m hardly superstitious or any kind of believer, I so frequently run into incredibly crazy situations-most of which are bad. So why not err on the side of caution? And ECC RAM’s no more expensive either.

I have no experience with the Xeon version of the iGPU but do with the "std" iGPU - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,118012.0.html

These iGPU are fine with lower scaling settings with JRVR with the extra processing power of dedicated GPUs allowing for more compute JRVR scaling alogs.  The better the GPU the more options you have for scaling algos. 

One option is to buy the CPU/Mobo setup you want.  Try it and if you are not happy with the output, then later add the GPU if needed.  Lower Cost, Low Risk.

A perfectly logical approach except that if I later add a GPU card-or make any hardware changes to the pc it will void Steiger’s virtually silent lifetime warranty. THAT’s why I’ve been trying like mad to get you guys to recommend the strongest but most efficient GPU 
card you know of-especially now with the upgraded JRVR. What I’m hoping now is that after itemizing all the feedback from these two threads for Steiger’s review, they will build the pc, install the latest JRiver and use JRVR to scale any few from a large number of chosen DVDs to 1080p, and displayed on a plasma or 4k TV.  If they like what they see and think I will too via the iGPU great. If not, then they would repeat the test with the GPU card (s) I was hoping you’d recommend-assuming they’d be willing to run such a GPU card test.

[mkolmar]

A very humble PC can play back DVD to 1080p. Coffee Lake iGPU, from what I read, should max out at about 4K UHD @ 24fps. I played a DVD on a laptop that has an NVidia GTX 1650, at 1080p over HDMI, using MadVR. I couldn't quickly find a setting that was too demanding. It was able to use Jinc to upscale chroma and image, with anti-ringing filter. A similar card would be around $220, and is possibly overkill at that.

This may really be a question of tradeoffs among size, noise, performance, and maintainability (e.g. the ability to open the case). Even with all that in mind, the Celeron in the little industrial PC is good enough that I don't bother to play back DVDs on the much-more-powerful laptop. Depends how far you want to take it, in which direction.

(4K UHD discs have a separate set of challenges on PC, starting with the optical drives and on from there, that don't have to do with graphics performance.)

[zoom+slomo]

I played a DVD on a laptop that has an NVidia GTX 1650, at 1080p over HDMI, using MadVR. I couldn't quickly find a setting that was too demanding. It was able to use Jinc to upscale chroma and image, with anti-ringing filter. A similar card would be around $220, and is possibly overkill at that.

This may really be a question of tradeoffs among size, noise, performance, and maintainability (e.g. the ability to open the case).

What exactly is Jinc? An earlier version of JRVR? If not, how does it differ from JRVR and how exactly is it used to enhance DVD on 1080p or 4k screens?

About that laptop version of Nvidia 1650 graphics, you seemed to imply that even in a laptop environment it could handle lots of the upper madVR settings for scaling a DVD to 1080p outputted via HDMI. What was the play length of that DVD? And if the DVD was about movie length and you played it about that long, were those 1650 graphics water cooled?’Or was it otherwise  temp controlled with something besides a fan? And how appreciable was the laptop’s fan noise while scaling that DVD constantly for over an hour?

[JimH]

What exactly is Jinc? An earlier version of JRVR?

It's a setting for video renderers.  Please try a Google search.

[zoom+slomo]

It's a setting for video renderers.  Please try a Google search.

Okay, I guess what I found here answers enough about it for now. https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/i5xw4a/guide_video_enhancement_upscaling_and_sharpening/

Next week Steiger begins sourcing parts to build my HTPC. Meanwhile, I need a new laptop like weeks ago but want one for the long term. I could get a decent price on an HP Zbook G8 15", which typically includes one of the Nvidia Ampere GPUs. But I can only find reviews on the noisier and thirstier RTX A3000, A5000, not the A2000. Of course, from what's been claimed here is that JRVR and even madVR can do DVD scaling quite well via the iGPU among several processors.

While at least among better scaling results are typically attained from HTPCs, has anyone else attempted DVD movie scaling via laptops? If yes, with what hardware and software? And what were the heat/noise experiences? 

Any experiences or known reports using the RTX A2000 mobile graphics with these apps? 

[zoom+slomo]

A very humble PC can play back DVD to 1080p. Coffee Lake iGPU, from what I read, should max out at about 4K UHD @ 24fps. I played a DVD on a laptop that has an NVidia GTX 1650, at 1080p over HDMI, using MadVR. I couldn't quickly find a setting that was too demanding. It was able to use Jinc to upscale chroma and image, with anti-ringing filter. A similar card would be around $220, and is possibly overkill at that.

This may really be a question of tradeoffs among size, noise, performance, and maintainability (e.g. the ability to open the case). Even with all that in mind, the Celeron in the little industrial PC is good enough that I don't bother to play back DVDs on the much-more-powerful laptop. Depends how far you want to take it, in which direction.

 

Pardon the nitpicking but here’s what seems a believable comparison of three mobile graphics:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Quadro-T1000-Laptop-vs-GeForce-GTX-1650-Ti-Mobile-vs-Quadro-P2000_9860_10227_8886.247598.0.html

And if you CLICK ON all of the different cinebench tests on that page it shows p2000 doing faster frame rates than the 1650 card. Doesn't that generally mean better quality rendering?

However, could the 1650 still run madVR better for other reasons somehow?

The p2000 also had the lowest power consumption on the Witcher test. 

Suggestions??