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Author Topic: ATSC 3.0 Support  (Read 9562 times)

tzr916

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ATSC 3.0 DRM
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2023, 08:37:51 am »

https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=77618

Looks like ATSC 3.0 may end up being crippled due to Encryption + DRM. Some stations in various cities are already employing this. Currently the HDHR hardware and native HDHomeRun App will not even lock signal on ATSC 3.0 stations that have it! With the latest firmware they will just display "Content protection required".

Silicondust states that they have the Encryption/DRM license and are working on a solution to actually play and record these channels within their native HDHomeRun App (windows10, android, roku, etc).

Unfortunately, just like cablecard Premium channels, no opensource app has ever achieved playback of DRM content. However, most opensource apps including JRiver can play cablecard Encrypted channels (without copy protection).

PLEASE look into getting JRiver licensed for ATSC 3.0 Encryption. If you don't, when the USA shuts off ATSC 1.0 everyone will be forced to use the HDHR App!

https://a3sa.com/licensing/
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tzr916

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Re: ATSC 3.0 Support
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2023, 05:49:59 pm »

One thing you might want to check is that Output Format is enabled and resampling to a reasonable rate. AC-4 has this peculiar thing that audio uses very obscure sample rates and you are supposed to resample it to a common rate as needed. But the decoder does not do that yet and would rely on Media Center to do that instead.
The easiest setting would be to set both 44.1 and 48k to resample to 44.1 and 48k respectively in output format. This wont cause resampling for any normal audio, but will resample the oddball AC-4 files.

I might look into doing that transparently.
30.0.66 (2/21/2023)
Changed: Audio with odd sample rates will be automatically resampled to a common rate.

This seems to have adversely affected bitstreaming (non-ATSC 3.0) tv channels/recorded shows my Denon! I get intermittent crazy loud "buzzing" noise. It's happened four times so far. It will usually go away if I press STOP, then Play again. I've set resampling back to NONE, to see if it goes away. Link for recording of the noise I get:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10VCeeJDAYQ-e1PLckplq_rvrztzuEZKA/view?usp=sharing

Almost all channels I looked at have 384kHz, there's one that has 448kHz but that is not in the MC re-sample list at all ?

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Hendrik

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Re: ATSC 3.0 Support
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2023, 05:55:43 pm »

Bitstreaming completely bypasses any resampling logic. If your channels show weird sample rates, something else is up. Although those sounds more like values for the audio bitrate.
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tzr916

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Re: ATSC 3.0 Support
« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2023, 06:08:19 pm »

Bitstreaming completely bypasses any resampling logic. If your channels show weird sample rates, something else is up. Although those sounds more like values for the audio bitrate.
Before today, I've never looked at bitrates. I only care about why I am getting a crazy loud buzz noise sometimes. It's NEVER happened before, years and years of bitstreaming through three different AVR's. Aside from turning bitstreaming off, what should I do about this?
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tzr916

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Re: ATSC 3.0 DRM
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2023, 02:09:16 pm »

...Silicondust states that they have the Encryption/DRM license and are working on a solution to actually play and record these channels within their native HDHomeRun App (windows10, android, roku, etc).

PLEASE look into getting JRiver licensed for ATSC 3.0 Encryption. If you don't, when the USA shuts off ATSC 1.0 everyone will be forced to use the HDHR App!

https://a3sa.com/licensing/

https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=391619#p391619

Nickk @SiliconDust says:
"It should be possible for in-home third party apps to meet requirements similar to how our apps meet requirements. It requires work but we are happy to advise."

Looks like ATSC 3.0 encryption may be closer to CableCard than we first thought. It would be great if someone from JRiver staff could reach out to Nickk on this. The sooner the better!
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tzr916

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Re: ATSC 3.0 DRM
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2023, 12:43:22 pm »

https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=77618

Looks like ATSC 3.0 may end up being crippled due to Encryption + DRM. Some stations in various cities are already employing this. Currently the HDHR hardware and native HDHomeRun App will not even lock signal on ATSC 3.0 stations that have it! With the latest firmware they will just display "Content protection required".

Silicondust states that they have the Encryption/DRM license and are working on a solution to actually play and record these channels within their native HDHomeRun App (windows10, android, roku, etc).

Unfortunately, just like cablecard Premium channels, no opensource app has ever achieved playback of DRM content. However, most opensource apps including JRiver can play cablecard Encrypted channels (without copy protection).

PLEASE look into getting JRiver licensed for ATSC 3.0 Encryption. If you don't, when the USA shuts off ATSC 1.0 everyone will be forced to use the HDHR App!

https://a3sa.com/licensing/

Hearst owned Sacramento NBC and MyTv ATSC 3.0 stations are now encrypted. Likely the others will follow suit. What is JRiver's plan?
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tzr916

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Re: ATSC 3.0 Support
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2023, 08:42:46 am »

https://a3sa.com/licensees/

SiliconDust is officially on the list, and playing encrypted channels in their APPS will be working soon. Other stand-alone box manufacturers also on the list are Bitrouter (ZapperBox) and Nuvyyo (Tablo). So far I do not see any opensource windows apps like JRiver.
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tzr916

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Re: ATSC 3.0 Support
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2023, 08:41:05 am »

SiliconDust is officially AS3A NextGen Certified for ATSC 3.0 They are now inches away from playback of encrypted channels on their HDHR App (various platforms), with recording encrypted channels coming.

Is JRiver looking into AS3A Certification at all? SiliconDust have stated:
Quote
it's hard to say what may or may not be available to third party apps. Once we've successfully gone through this ourselves, then we will be able to provide guidance to other developers, if there are options available, etc.
https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=393460#p393460
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JimH

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Re: ATSC 3.0 Support
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2023, 01:00:50 pm »

I'm reminded of the record labels finally deciding MP3 was OK and they could maybe make money if they supported it.
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JimH

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Re: ATSC 3.0 Support
« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2023, 05:09:39 pm »

I just received this from our local public TV broadcaster, TPT.  Minneapolis / St. Paul, Minnesota.

TPT is excited to upgrade our transmission signal to NEXTGEN TV on October 25! The changes are part of TPT’s digital transformation efforts, with the goal of better serving our community now and into the future.

NEXTGEN TV is the next evolution of broadcast technology. The technology improves the efficiency of broadcast and will provide a stronger signal to those at the edges of our coverage area. In the future, the technology will allow TPT to provide more personalized viewing experiences to viewers with smart TVs and serve as an essential resource for first responders during community emergencies.

TPT makes the transition on October 25, and viewers who use an antenna will need to rescan their television channels to continue to access TPT channels. Member Services will be available to assist those who need help with the rescanning process. You can contact us by email at memberservices@tpt.org or by phone from 9:00am-4:00pm Monday through Friday at 651-229-1300 or toll free at (866) 229-1300.

Learn more about TPTs transition to NEXTGEN TV.
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tzr916

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Re: ATSC 3.0 Support
« Reply #60 on: December 05, 2023, 05:01:50 pm »

SliconDust apps still cannot play Encrypted ATSC 3.0 channels. Just wanted to post something they posted which I thought was hopeful in regards to possible third party adoption one day.

"...we had assumed the broadcasters weren't going to be using DRM until non-TV products had sorted things out, let alone pushing for DRM-by-default. They rushed it. We want to be public with how much the industry has screwed this up, but at the same time we have to be diplomatic. So I can say this much, but I can't give you the full vivid details of what I think about the broadcasters, Pearl, A3SA, etc, and what I would like to scream at them.

All that being said, it's still so much better than dealing with CableCARD DRM. It's still DRM, and DRM sucks, but it's at least a modern DRM approach that is meant to work on more devices, and shares a lot of DNA with streaming services, which have broad support
..."

https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=396499#p396499
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David Sydney

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Re: ATSC 3.0 Support
« Reply #61 on: December 27, 2023, 04:36:31 am »

Just for reference for other readers. ATSC is relevant for North America & Sth Korea broadcasting only. The stanard is not used and therefore not relevant if you are anywhere else in the world according to my reading is that right?
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Hendrik

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Re: ATSC 3.0 Support
« Reply #62 on: December 27, 2023, 11:37:44 am »

At this time, ATSC 3.0 is used in the US, South Korea and Jamaica, and Brazil and Trinidad and Tobago expressed plans to adopt it in the future.
Many countries which did not use ATSC in the past will likely not swap to it, eg. Europe and Australia will likely continue using evolving versions of DVB instead.

Of course tighter DRM is going to arrive in all systems eventually.
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tzr916

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Re: ATSC 3.0 Support
« Reply #63 on: January 31, 2024, 01:38:34 pm »

Wow, AS3A's drm has basically nailed the coffin shut for Windows ATSC 3.0

"Will DRM encrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my XBox or my Windows 10/11 system?
No. ATSC 3.0 uses Google Widevine DRM encryption which is a competitor to Microsoft PlayReady DRM encryption. This issue is not specific to the HDHomeRun product. A3SA is aware of the problem. There is no solution at this time. Any solution is outside our control and our guess is that a solution is unlikely anytime soon.
"

https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=78888
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Dennis in FL

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Re: ATSC 3.0 Support Coming Soon
« Reply #64 on: June 08, 2024, 12:30:37 pm »

If anyone is currently using it, please add more about how it works and what you like or don't like.  Thanks.

The reception quality of 3.0 is phenomenal!  I’m getting stations 60 miles away with a cheap attic antenna.  But one by one they went DRM.

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