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[NeedForSpeed73]

Hello, I've been using JRiver with a library on a network share but I kept getting long buffering interruptions from time to time. So I decided to try a server/client configuration: installed JRiver on one machine on the LAN and configured it as DLNA server and it is found correctly by the client who is able to browse the library; the only problem is when I try play anything through my USB DAC (via ASIO drivers), I get an error that the format (whatever it is) is not supported by the driver, while it is and was when played locally on the client or with the old network share solution. Tried the WASAPI driver and it works (but obviously no DSD), so the problem must be related to the use of the ASIO driver.
Does anyone had the same problem?
Thanks in advance for your help
Emilio

[JimH]

The error message is probably correct.  You can use MC's DSP Studio > Output Settings to force output to what the device expects.

A device will often support one type of output when directly connected and a different one when using DLNA.

[NeedForSpeed73]

The error message is probably correct.  You can use MC's DSP Studio > Output Settings to force output to what the device expects.

A device will often support one type of output when directly connected and a different one when using DLNA.

Hello Jim, thanks for your prompt answer. I don't understand, maybe I didn't explain correctly my configuration. I have one PC running JR server, another PC (on the same LAN) running JR as client and the DAC is connected via USB to this latter one. I have a normal DAC, not a network streams receiver so the DAC just plays what it receives from the PC it is connected to via USB and it does it correctly when playing files stored locally on the PC it is connected to and even those on the server PC when using the WASAPI driver.
I've tried, just for the sake of testing, to use the JRiver DSP (on the server) to force resolution to 44,1Khz for every other res but I keep getting the error stating the original resolution of the file like no conversion happened. (Btw I'd like the DAC to receive the original files and not have to use the DSP).
I attach the log file (that shows an error in the ASIO driver init).

[JimH]

Try using the client to play a local file (on the client) to your DAC.  What happens? 

Just to confirm, your client is connected to a JRiver server, but playing to a DAC connected to the client by USB.

If that's the case and MC says it can't play a format, it's because that's being reported by the driver.

[dtc]

Make sure Media Network - Client Options - Audio Conversion is set to Don't Convert Audio.  That should make sure the original format is sent.

[NeedForSpeed73]

Try using the client to play a local file (on the client) to your DAC.  What happens? 

Just to confirm, your client is connected to a JRiver server, but playing to a DAC connected to the client by USB.

If that's the case and MC says it can't play a format, it's because that's being reported by the driver.

It plays it perfectly, it even plays it if it's on the "server" PC and the library is over network shared folder, but with that configuration (that is the one I used) I get long "buffering" pauses every now and then. That's the reason why I was trying this server/client setup and was even willing to upgrade my license to be able to run two machines at one time, but seems like something is not working.

[NeedForSpeed73]

Make sure Media Network - Client Options - Audio Conversion is set to Don't Convert Audio.  That should make sure the original format is sent.

Thanks for the suggestion, that's set to "not convert" by default.

[NeedForSpeed73]

I've been testing a bit more and come to the conclusion that the problem is definitely on the client side and JRiver is to blame for it. Basically I've tried to connect to a different server (Plex) and got the same exact error; then I've tried different ASIO drivers for my DAC (ASIO4All and FlexASIO) getting mixed results: the first one plays fine the server files but just up to 192Khz, while anything above that (DSD included) can't be played even if locally stored on the client. The latter just wraps around WASAPI so, in the end, it is limited like using a WASAPI directly (again, no DSD).
So, to summarize: DAC manufacturer ASIO driver plays any format locally but none from the server, ASIO4All plays anything under 192Khz from everywhere, but isn't able to go above that freq (384Khz PCM and DSD); no way to have every format supported by my DAC played from a server like I'd want.
I dunno what to do, I guess I'll give Foobar a try, although I hate this because I bought a JRiver license and I prefer its interface (especially the "theater view"). Another (expensive) solution would be adding a large HDD to the client and keep the files locally.

[mattkhan]

I didn't understand why you are using dlna for two instances of MC?

[dtc]

ASIO4ALL and FlexASIO are not actual ASIO drivers. ASIO4ALL uses kernal streaming and FlexASIO uses various methods including kernel streaming, WASAPI and DirectSound. So, they tell you nothing about how real ASIO drivers work.  You might as well use WASAPI.

I agree with Matt that you should be using client/server via Media Network between the two instances of MC.  If, in fact, you are using just DLNA change over to Media Network.

I unfortunately do not currently have an ASIO system, but I did try high rez including DSD through DoP with no problem using Media Network client/server and WASAPI on the client.  You should be able to do at least 1x and probably 2x through WASAPI if your DAC accepts DoP.

What DAC are you using and what sample rate DSD?

[DJLegba]

I unfortunately do not currently have an ASIO system, but I did try high rez including DSD through DoP with no problem using Media Network client/server and WASAPI on the client.  You should be able to do at least 1x and probably 2x through WASAPI if your DAC accepts DoP.

What DAC are you using and what sample rate DSD?

I have a couple of ASIO DACS and I can confirm that MC has no trouble playing DSD content on a client device from a library on a JRiver server.

[dtc]

I have a couple of ASIO DACS and I can confirm that MC has no trouble playing DSD content on a client device from a library on a JRiver server.

Thanks. I have done that in the past but my ASIO dac is in the shop.

[NeedForSpeed73]

I didn't understand why you are using dlna for two instances of MC?

Because the USB-DAC is connected to a mini-HTPC (a MSI NUC) in the living room that carries just a little NVME sdd (120Gb) for Windows and programs.
The audio files are instead on my main PC (with Terabytes of storage) in another room so I have to access them remotely.
Sorry, I didn't tell that.

[NeedForSpeed73]

ASIO4ALL and FlexASIO are not actual ASIO drivers. ASIO4ALL uses kernal streaming and FlexASIO uses various methods including kernel streaming, WASAPI and DirectSound. So, they tell you nothing about how real ASIO drivers work.  You might as well use WASAPI.

I agree with Matt that you should be using client/server via Media Network between the two instances of MC.  If, in fact, you are using just DLNA change over to Media Network.

I unfortunately do not currently have an ASIO system, but I did try high rez including DSD through DoP with no problem using Media Network client/server and WASAPI on the client.  You should be able to do at least 1x and probably 2x through WASAPI if your DAC accepts DoP.

What DAC are you using and what sample rate DSD?

Sorry I don't get what you mean with the Media Network/DLNA suggestion. Anyways are you telling me that, best case, if I manage to have anything set up correctly, I'd still have to transcode DSD to DoP in C/S configuration? My DAC is capable of decoding DSD up to 512 (tried it successfully) and I'd like to feed it with the original format not a transcoded (downgraded) copy; if it's like this, I'll just give up and put a HDD in the "client" machine, copy all the music to it (maybe setting a mirroring service with the main PC to keep a backup) and play locally. Or I will just live with the long "buffering" pauses that I used to get in my original configuration with the library on a network drive.

My DAC: http://www.audioanalogue.com/en/aadac

[mattkhan]

the log says you're playing a flac file so I guess this is the DoP part of it. The error in the log seems to be common for the underlying device in your DAC (or the driver) and suggests some issue with PCM playback, i.e. it implies you have not configured it to output as DoP so it thinks it really is PCM. Is your MC client configured as per https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD#DSD_over_PCM_.28DoP.29 ?

[dtc]

Sorry I don't get what you mean with the Media Network/DLNA suggestion. Anyways are you telling me that, best case, if I manage to have anything set up correctly, I'd still have to transcode DSD to DoP in C/S configuration? My DAC is capable of decoding DSD up to 512 (tried it successfully) and I'd like to feed it with the original format not a transcoded (downgraded) copy; if it's like this, I'll just give up and put a HDD in the "client" machine, copy all the music to it (maybe setting a mirroring service with the main PC to keep a backup) and play locally. Or I will just live with the long "buffering" pauses that I used to get in my original configuration with the library on a network drive.

My DAC: http://www.audioanalogue.com/en/aadac

MC supports its own client server system, which is different than simply using DLNA. You set it up using Options - Media Network. You generate an access code on the server and then go to the client and add the server address using that code under Playing Now - Playing From.  More details at

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Media_Server

Using that configuration, you should be able to use native DSD without transcoding.  If you want to do DSD 512 you will need ASIO. Below that you can use WASAPI and DoP if your DAC supports it. Once you have the client/server setup you can try both ASIO and WASAPI to test what is working.

EDIT: Your DAC goes to 768 Khz, so it probably only supports1x and 2x DSD over DoP. You need ASIO above that. ASIO should work with the MC client/server setup.

[NeedForSpeed73]

the log says you're playing a flac file so I guess this is the DoP part of it. The error in the log seems to be common for the underlying device in your DAC (or the driver) and suggests some issue with PCM playback, i.e. it implies you have not configured it to output as DoP so it thinks it really is PCM. Is your MC client configured as per https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD#DSD_over_PCM_.28DoP.29 ?

Yes, that log was generated when trying to play a FLAC file, because when using the manufacturer ASIO driver, it doesn't work at all not even with simple PCM 44.1Khz when in C/S configuration. Didn't even try play DSD when not even PCM low freq was working.

[NeedForSpeed73]

MC supports its own client server system, which is different than simply using DLNA. You set it up using Options - Media Network. You generate an access code on the server and then go to the client and add the server address using that code under Playing Now - Playing From.  More details at

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Media_Server

Using that configuration, you should be able to use native DSD without transcoding.  If you want to do DSD 512 you will need ASIO. Below that you can use WASAPI and DoP if your DAC supports it. Once you have the client/server setup you can try both ASIO and WASAPI to test what is working.

EDIT: Your DAC goes to 768 Khz, so it probably only supports1x and 2x DSD over DoP. You need ASIO above that. ASIO should work with the MC client/server setup.

This is exactly what I did and, as you wrote, it SHOULD work. But as often happens with computers, things SHOULD work, but just DON'T for some reason and you go crazy trying to understand why (especially with Windows, with its very limited logging). 

[dtc]

Sounds like you are using client/server correctly. The DLNA reference threw us off.

So, just to be clear, when the client is connected to the server PCM files play with WASAPI but not with ASIO - correct. When they are playing what does Audio Path show the correct input and output format?  And what does AUDIO path say when you are playing on the client not connected to the server? In all cases, does Audio Path show input and output correctly?

Just trying to narrow things down, since this is not a common problem. Hang in there.

[mattkhan]

I suggest you post pictures of your MC setup relating to audio output, i.e. at least

DSP studio > Output Format
Options > Audio > Audio Device (and > Device Settings)

then post separate logs showing what happens when you play the file locally vs play from the server

mixing DSD and PCM sounds like adding confusion so I'd stick to one or the other for testing purposes, i.e. get one working then move onto the next one (as it sounds like you need to setup zones and zoneswitch using different audio device config for each one, you haven't mentioned doing this so far)

[NeedForSpeed73]

Sounds like you are using client/server correctly. The DLNA reference threw us off.

So, just to be clear, when the client is connected to the server PCM files play with WASAPI but not with ASIO - correct. When they are playing what does Audio Path show the correct input and output format?  And what does AUDIO path say when you are playing on the client not connected to the server? In all cases, does Audio Path show input and output correctly?

Just trying to narrow things down, since this is not a common problem. Hang in there.

I attach you the two "audio path" windows in the two cases you asked for.
Btw, something strange happened while testing this: when I went to play the local file with ASIO, if I kept the remote library active, I still got the error even if opening the file locally via the Documents->Open Media Object Menu. I had to revert first to the local library and then open the file to have it work properly.

[dtc]

Those both look just like they should.  They really help.

Is the WASAPI one when the client is connected to the server or when it is playing directly from the client library?  It would be good to compare WASAPI in both cases - client/server and direct on the client system.

And post a log when ASIO fails when the client is connected to the server.

[NeedForSpeed73]

Those both look just like they should.  They really help.

Is the WASAPI one when the client is connected to the server or when it is playing directly from the client library?  It would be good to compare WASAPI in both cases - client/server and direct on the client system.

And post a log when ASIO fails when the client is connected to the server.

Attached is the log file when doing:

1) Play file from server library with WASAPI
2) Play file locally with WASAPI
3) Play file from server library with ASIO (error)

Thanks for your help.