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Author Topic: WTV File Format  (Read 8328 times)

JimH

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WTV File Format
« on: March 21, 2023, 09:20:16 am »

Edit:  A new WMC thread is here:  https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135520.0.html

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A user from the UK pointed out that we might have more Windows Media Center users trying JRiver Media Center if we supported the WTV file format, which they frequently use.

An important advantage of the format is that it stores metadata.

It's supported by FFmpeg.

I asked Hendrik and Yaobing.  Hendrik says we can read the files. 

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Yaobing

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Re: WTV Format
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2023, 09:49:30 am »

We have been supporting these files for many years.

I downloaded a few sample videos online (I used to have a few but they were lost due to hard disk failures over the years).  One of them have both audio and video, the others have video only, of various video resolution.  They all play fine in MC30.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

JimH

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Re: WTV Format
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2023, 09:53:50 am »

Did you have to change any settings?

Link?

Found this: https://filesamples.com/formats/wtv

They play in MC.  Windows file associations are now set to MC30.

In Tools > Options > File Types, check the box for wmv,wvx,dvr-ms,x-ms-wmv,wtv
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Yaobing

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Re: WTV Format
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2023, 10:24:59 am »

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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

Yaobing

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Re: WTV Files Format
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2023, 10:37:08 am »

Did you have to change any settings?

No setting changes are needed.  The playback method of file type is set to "Automatic".  With this default setting, we choose DirectShow for playback.  Switching the method to "JRiver Video Engine" makes MC play it using FFMPEG, without any issues.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

JimH

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2023, 11:05:33 am »

Could we add the format as one that we could record to?
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Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2023, 11:33:36 am »

We could.  We used to record that way but we abandoned it in favor of JTV because of the flexibility of our time-shifting engine.  I need to add a few pieces to our current DirectShow graph to achieve that, but I am not sure if that will give us enough advantage over other recording methods.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

mcq

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2023, 11:51:44 am »

Hi Yaobing
I am the UK member mentioned by JimH above.
Whilst not doubting the benefits of jtv in a green field situation, accommodating users  who might want to migrate from WMC is a different proposition.
Existing WMC users have hundreds if not thousands of wtv files - I have over 3000. It's is a format that works well from their perspective, is easily opened and edited in a very wide range of software and contains all that most people need e.g. program data etc.
I worked with the two Dans in VideoRedo using some MS contacts and that produced excellent wtv editing including metadata - so it's proven in that regard.
Also Windows Libraries can provide 'Recorded TV' links to other machines running WMC enabling all machines to record (16 tuners in my case) and for all machines to see all other recordings without special library routines.
This is a very powerful feature which existing WMC users will be loath to give up.
Hence the requested recording/playback/library functionality of wtv that i initiated the request for with Jim. 
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JimH

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2023, 11:54:54 am »

We could.  We used to record that way but we abandoned it in favor of JTV because of the flexibility of our time-shifting engine.  I need to add a few pieces to our current DirectShow graph to achieve that, but I am not sure if that will give us enough advantage over other recording methods.
It would let our customers choose.
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mcq

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2023, 11:56:54 am »

Thanks Jim - that is exactly the point and would allow new users who are dipping their toes in, to do so easily.
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mcq

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2023, 01:51:31 pm »

P.S. JR Media Center opening wtv file - audio but no video.
If you need wtv samples, I can provide them - is there an upload site that would be good as they tend to be a bit large.
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JimH

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2023, 01:55:05 pm »

Switch to Display View?

You can put a file anywhere and post a link.

Do these work?
 https://filesamples.com/formats/wtv
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mcq

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2023, 02:06:25 pm »

I'm in theatre view and the screen is black but audio present.
Tried to attach wtv file it failed saying contact admin - perhaps because wtv isn't an allowed file type?
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Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2023, 02:35:53 pm »

The forum only allow certain types.  More importantly the forum can't take large files, and most video files are too large.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

mcq

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2023, 04:00:16 pm »

Jim - neither of the 1280 or 1920 format files play in either JRiver or WMC
They do play in VLC and VRD - I think because although they have a wtv wrapper they are not, in the case of WMC at least native codecs - as I get decoder error message in WMC.
Yaobing has said I cant post this type of file to the board - so how do I get them to you?
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Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2023, 04:31:40 pm »

If you have a file service account, such as Google Drive, or Microsoft OneDrive, you can upload there and share a link here.  Or, better, you can private message me with the link.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2023, 04:54:34 pm »

neither of the 1280 or 1920 format files play in either JRiver or WMC

The files downloaded from that site contain MPEG2 video.  Did you allow MC to download required codecs?

Code: [Select]
Filter Graph Info:

    Filter 'JRiver Subtitle Renderer'
        CLSID: {F74E834C-9C98-43ED-89B1-19A9DF82E774}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'In'
        Input Pin 'CC In'
            Connected to pin '~CC Output' of filter 'LAV Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DTVCCData  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {40FEFD7F-85DD-4335-A804-8A33B0BF7B81}, Format type FORMAT_None

    Filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'
        CLSID: {FA10746C-9B63-4B6C-BC49-FC300EA5F256}
        Host: c:\windows\system32\evr.dll
        Input Pin 'EVR Input0'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'LAV Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'EVR Input1'

    Filter 'LAV Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
        CLSID: {EE30215D-164F-4A92-A4EB-9D4C13390F9F}
        Host: C:\Users\Shuomin Zhu\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 30\Plugins\lav64\LAVVideo.ax
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'EVR Input0' of filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Output Pin '~CC Output'
            Connected to pin 'CC In' of filter 'JRiver Subtitle Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DTVCCData  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {40FEFD7F-85DD-4335-A804-8A33B0BF7B81}, Format type FORMAT_None

    Filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
        CLSID: {A4207487-E7D8-406B-9882-B66370DE2492}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'PBDA DTFilter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'LAV Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO

    Filter 'PBDA DTFilter'
        CLSID: {09144FD6-BB29-11DB-96F1-005056C00008}
        Host: c:\windows\system32\cpfilters.dll
        Input Pin 'In(Enc/Tag)'
            Connected to pin 'DVR Out - 1' of filter 'Stream Buffer Source'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {46ADBD28-6FD0-4796-93B2-155C51DC048D}, Format type Unknown GUID Name: {46ADBD28-6FD0-4796-93B2-155C51DC048D}
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO

    Filter 'Stream Buffer Source'
        CLSID: {C9F5FE02-F851-4EB5-99EE-AD602AF1E619}
        Host: c:\windows\system32\sbe.dll
        Output Pin 'DVR Out - 1'
            Connected to pin 'In(Enc/Tag)' of filter 'PBDA DTFilter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {46ADBD28-6FD0-4796-93B2-155C51DC048D}, Format type Unknown GUID Name: {46ADBD28-6FD0-4796-93B2-155C51DC048D}
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

mcq

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2023, 06:55:25 pm »

Hi Yaobing - thanks for reply.
It would easier for me if we could start from the other end of the telescope please
I have just taken a standard UK Terrestrial HD recorded wtv file with stereo audio.
It plays, sound and picture fine in WMC, but is audio and black screen in MC.
The attached pic shows the file format and you'll see we use H264 here not MPEG2.
So for me this has to play in MC.
In the UK we also get AAC audio 5.1 and from UK satellites AC3 2ch and 5.1

Whilst I can understand filters after a minute or two :-) - I need an OOB fix if you can please.
I still think it would be easier if I could upload files for you to make work rather than looking at MPEG2 content which broadcasters don't use in the UK
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JimH

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2023, 07:11:34 pm »

When you first try to play video, MC will download some components needed.  It's possible you've blocked access.
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Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2023, 07:18:46 pm »

In MC, run Tools > Options > File Types.  Scroll down to Video section and click "Windows Media Video (wmv, wvx, dvr-ms, x-ms-wmv, wtv)".  Check Playback Method in the lower portion of the window.  Is it Automatic?  If not, set it to Automatic.

During playback of the video, right-click in the video window and find "DirectShow filters" menu item.  Mouse over it to open the submenu and choose "Copy graph info to clipboard".  Paste the info here.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

JimH

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2023, 07:28:04 pm »

Jim - neither of the 1280 or 1920 format files play in either JRiver or WMC
They both play here.  Version of Windows and version of MC?
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mcq

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2023, 07:43:33 pm »

1am here - will resume - so thanks
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mcq

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2023, 08:09:56 pm »

File type setting seems correct.
Direct show filter for 1920x1080 wtv attached
Thanks for all your engagement.
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Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2023, 08:40:51 am »

Thanks for providing the information.

The filter graph looks normal except that LAV video decode was not involved compared with what I get on my computer.  Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder was used instead.  That is a bit puzzling as I would expect Microsoft filter should work with their own format.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2023, 08:58:50 am »

Since WTV file format is Microsoft's own format, we have preferred Microsoft decoders over LAV decoders for these files.  Maybe we have to rethink that strategy.    On my computer, we tried to use the Microsoft decoder but it failed to connect, and thus we fall back to LAV and it works.  On your computer on the other hand, the Microsoft decoder succeeded in making the connection, so we do not try LAV, yet the MS decoder produced black screen.  Go figure!
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

JimH

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2023, 09:33:16 am »

Since WTV file format is Microsoft's own format, we have preferred Microsoft decoders over LAV decoders for these files.  Maybe we have to rethink that strategy.    On my computer, we tried to use the Microsoft decoder but it failed to connect, and thus we fall back to LAV and it works.  On your computer on the other hand, the Microsoft decoder succeeded in making the connection, so we do not try LAV, yet the MS decoder produced black screen.  Go figure!
Maybe we should switch to using LAV/FFmpeg.

Can mcq do that for himself for now?
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Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2023, 09:37:43 am »

I am building a test DLL that does not use Microsoft decoders for mcq to try.  If it tests out good, we will switch.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2023, 10:01:40 am »

@mcq, which version of MC are you using?  MC30?  Is it 64 bit or 32 bit version?


Assuming you are using MC30 (please update to the latest available on MC30 board), here is a 64-bit DLL for you to try:

64-bit JRPlayer.dll for testing playback of WTV files

Please let me know if you are using the 32-bit version.

To use this DLL, download and unzip.  Copy JRPlayer.dll into MC installation folder (usually C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 30\), replacing the existing file.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2023, 10:21:23 am »

Can mcq do that for himself for now?

No, it is a hard-coded behavior.  He has to use the DLL I just built.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2023, 10:38:25 am »

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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

mcq

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2023, 12:14:25 pm »

Hi Yaobing
Thanks for revised dll - but no improvement
Your 1920 wtv gives black screen and no audio - don't think the clip has any audio?
My BBC wtv gives audio but black screen

Fresh DShow filters shown below.
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JimH

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2023, 12:22:04 pm »

What version of MC are you using?  32 bit or 64 bit?  What OS?
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mcq

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2023, 12:37:16 pm »

Hi Jim
JRiver MC30 64bit
Windows 11 64 bit
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Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2023, 12:42:32 pm »

Crashes like this sometimes happen when a DLL and the main program are built with different code base.  However, I installed 82, and used the new DLL and can't reproduce the crash.

@mcq, please check the downloaded DLL to make sure there is no corruption due to downloading and unzipping.  The zipped file JRPlayer.zip should have a file size of 2,841,520 bytes.  The unzipped DLL should have a size of 7,235,072 bytes.

If the numbers don't match please try download it again.

If all checks out, please turn on logging (Help > Logging, check "Output to a log file" checkbox).  Then try playing a video to reproduce the crash.  Email me the log files.

If nothing else helps, we will just have wait until the next build is released.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

mcq

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2023, 12:54:39 pm »

Hi Yaobing
I revised my post earlier - no crash now - just no success
Can you take 50Mb files somewhere and I'll upload a few from here
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Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2023, 01:24:23 pm »

Maybe there is something we don't know about Windows 11, or something special about your video card.  I am using Windows 10.

I don't have a server that can receive large files.  If you are talking about a sample wtv file, maybe you can record a short piece (10 mb or less) and email it to me.  yaobing at jriver dot com
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

mcq

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2023, 01:28:50 pm »

Ok will do - the video card is just the UHD 770 HDMI output from an Intel 136000 - nothing fancy.
I'll try an send you a few small representative wtv files.
Might take a day or so to do.
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JimH

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2023, 01:58:09 pm »

The full version of MC? 30.0.82, for example.
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Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2023, 03:14:32 pm »

Thanks for the sample videos.

They play fine on my computer.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2023, 03:20:25 pm »

I sent you a personal message.  Please check it out.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

JimH

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2023, 08:57:43 am »

mcq said in a message:

Where I am –

Wtv now displays picture in JRiver – thanks to Yaobing’s revised exe

Wtv AAC 5.1 correctly plays all audio channels when using ‘JRiver Open GL video engine (experimental)’ instead of ‘Automatic’ – Yaobing suggestion.

Wtv native recording – awaited – how will I know when there is something to try?

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JimH

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2023, 09:00:19 am »

Good news, thanks to Yaobing, Matt, and Hendrick.

You can just follow this thread to find out when recording is working.  I wouldn't expect it to take too long.

For now, you could continue recording with WMC on your server, and have MC import the recordings there, then turn on Media Network and let MC serve them to your other machines.
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JimH

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2023, 06:46:09 pm »

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tzr916

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2023, 09:57:54 pm »

We could.  We used to record that way but we abandoned it in favor of JTV because of the flexibility of our time-shifting engine.  I need to add a few pieces to our current DirectShow graph to achieve that, but I am not sure if that will give us enough advantage over other recording methods.

So recording/time-shifting in WTV would be BDA only? Or would there be a DMS option?
Could this be an opportunity to get DMS Server-Client working properly, and even have bitstream audio in DMS  ;)
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mcq

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2023, 07:42:48 am »

Not a question I'm informed enough to answer.
But any wtv recorded in JR needs to work fully in WMC (and vice versa) as folks will run both in the short term.
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JimH

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2023, 08:00:28 am »

You can currently record in WTV on one machine and play in MC from that machine.
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mcq

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2023, 10:36:38 am »

Yes indeed - so half way there which is good.

Trying to address tzr916 point about BDA and DMS.
As I said above I don't know - I don't even know which WMC uses.
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tzr916

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2023, 01:57:37 pm »

Trying to address tzr916 point about BDA and DMS.
As I said above I don't know - I don't even know which WMC uses.
This is a query for Yaobing + Hendrik
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JimH

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #48 on: March 25, 2023, 02:23:59 pm »

Or Google.
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Yaobing

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Re: WTV File Format
« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2023, 06:06:42 pm »

WTV recording will be bda tuners only as it is available only with DirectShow solutions.  Client-server functionality for DMS tuners is on my list.  I have not treated it as urgent item because DMS works on URLs and the tuners are accessible from all computers.  I will get to it.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center
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