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[tkolsto]

I just bought a new pc monitor to get smooth movie rendering.
The monitor: 1080p,  23.976 – 144 hz. ( benq zoowie 24 inch, xl2411k)
Pc:
OS: Windows 10 pro
Ram: 16 gb
Cpu: ryzen i7 2700x
Gpu: inno3d gt 1030, 2 gb gddr5 (not 4), this card is specified to 4k, 60 hz, but I am doing 1080p movies. So this should be no problem for the card. Same effect on jriver or just playing a youtube 1080p30hz.
JRiver 30, latest build (0.095)

I have the same effect on this monitor as I have on my lg oled b1 tv. Object in motion are shaking. On my tv only truemotion can stop this shaking. More viseable in high contrast scenes like the starting scene in the white room from alien covenant. but one can see this is in pretty much all motion, only small movement within the center of screen can look ok.
I thought this was mostly on oled tvs…but is just exactly the same.

I tried syncing jriver 23hz or try to do 120 hz 5:5 pulldown (exclusive mode) both with and without jriver smoothing setting on in madvr, Jrvr is just the same,  both have the shaking effect.

Very strange that this is not more on topic if everybody view the same poor rendering.

I don't have any framedrops or delayed frames or glitches during rendering.

the shaking effect is visible in the attached picture (got really lucky as numerous times I only get a normal looking picture, this picture one sees excactlly how it looks, but in a still picture.

[tkolsto]

osd

[tkolsto]

I just noticed the file is 1920x800, but does that matter in this case? because everything seems find in the osd from what I can see.

[JimH]

I can't really help, but the problem is probably between the graphics hardware and the display.  The display can't manage what the graphics hardware is sending.

[newsposter]

potentially rapid switching between hdr and sdr?  If so, could be caused by anything from the OS to the display driver to the hdmi cables to the monitor/TV itself.....

[tkolsto]

it is a pc monitor and it does not have hdr. I put the rtx 3050 in the pc connected to it. I now get much higher ms in rendering. 10 11 ms and peak at around 12. does the cpu play a major role here. ryzen i7 2700x. and this aint 4k but 1080p. on my other tv desktop playing 4k on my lg oled..i get 4.5 ms and peak 4.8. the movie is 1920 x 800.

also I get pixelating effect on picture especially at dark picture and blurred out spaces at worst. monitor contrast ratio is 1:1000 is this the culprit..is a monitore that bad. (paid 300 dollar for it and it is a benq ) picture is garbage. and in the osd it says in input: limted tv levels. is this right and as it should be. driver is reinstalled. 511.79 by windows when I connected the monitor to the 3050 with a displaycable that came with the monitor.

posted some pictures. the ones heavy pixelated there is heavy motion involved but not all and all picture are certainly not high quality..but more blurry unclear.

Youtube has clear pictures but the shaking are still a problem. I played a movie of greece oceans and nature pictures(played many times on both pcs) great quality but motion is always shaking where motion is involved..slow paning is ok but it sometimes looks at is on the edge of what it can handle. but I get the quality at least.

[tkolsto]

here is osd with 23 hz

[tkolsto]

another picture poor quality

[eve]

Buddy, that looks like a bad encode. I think it's your source material.

Mediainfo?

[tkolsto]

only still picture could look ok. could the monitor be this bad?

[eve]

only still picture could look ok. could the monitor be this bad?

Not sure what you're saying in these quotes exactly.

also I get pixelating effect on picture especially at dark picture and blurred out spaces at worst. monitor contrast ratio is 1:1000 is this the culprit..is a monitore that bad.

You then proceed to post screenshots.... meaning we can 'rule out' the monitor for this specific gripe since this 'pixelating effect' (which is almost certainly just a bad encode) is clearly present before you even send it to a display device.

[eve]

I just noticed the file is 1920x800, but does that matter in this case? because everything seems find in the osd from what I can see.

Yeah so if you take a look at a real blu ray disc, you'll see that regardless of the AR, the video itself 1920x1080, the black bars are actually baked in.
This is an encode.

[tkolsto]

ok so this is the problem. I will download a 1080p remux.

[tkolsto]

Yes the pixelating is gone with a remux file.  shaking is still there on panning and motion on all video on jriver or youtube. a little better when vsync is on. but still shaking/shivering effect.

Playing alien covenant remux file..it get a bit less stutter/shaking/shivering effect using adaptive instead of "on" on nvidia panel vsync.

Do you get the rock shaking on this greece video too? or is it only on my system? I have the monitor set on 60hz and the yt video is 30hz 1080p.
10 minutes 50 sec to 11 minutes 20 sec. when the camera/drone flyes through the opening in the moutain on see level. when the drones comes out ot the opening on see the rock on the right is shivering no matter what hz I set my monitor to. do you have the same effect when you play it too? I thougth this was a oled issue but it is on every screen I suppose. this was not the case years back. now motion is really crap. and people watch this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSRKFAmfqnI&t=736s



 

[tkolsto]

hmm...looks more and more like I return the whole monitor as it was a disapointment...all screens are the same...I do not think another one does things better.

[tkolsto]

strange that monitors does not have smoothing dejudder when they have the same problem as oled tvs.

[tkolsto]

eve thank you for noticing this bad code. I have tried 5:5 pulldown on jrvr or madvr...but it stutters and shivers. I read now that monitors(led screens) have something calle black strobing. I dont have that on my new monitor. but this is supposed to give the same effect as bfi on oleds. Do You think this could be the solution for a monitor to be able to do smooth motion at the cost of reduced brightness and from what I read can produce flicker(I dont know how this flicker would be, but this might be it?)?

[eve]

eve thank you for noticing this bad code. I have tried 5:5 pulldown on jrvr or madvr...but it stutters and shivers. I read now that monitors(led screens) have something calle black strobing. I dont have that on my new monitor. but this is supposed to give the same effect as bfi on oleds. Do You think this could be the solution for a monitor to be able to do smooth motion at the cost of reduced brightness and from what I read can produce flicker(I dont know how this flicker would be, but this might be it?)?

We're getting into hypothetical territory and I don't *really* want to go into depth or spill some secret sauce, but honestly, Ive thought about the 'black strobe' and trying to do it in software with a high refresh rate VRR (important here) display.
I don't think this is going to help you though.

Look, it seems like you're particularly sensitive to a specific 'problem area' with the framerates that historically, have been prevalent in cinema and television. Panning has always been a problem, and directors ARE aware of it. Now, perhaps you've also been watching alot of HFR content, or playing video games. It can be WEIRDLY jarring going between the two.

You ever seen an HFR film? It's *wild* I wasn't sold on it, and the format has a solid decade to get to a place where it's being utilized right, but man, there's something to it.

Billy Lynn's Long Half-Time Walk and Gemini Man are really compelling, they're frankly bad, unmemorable movies but they're starting to approach the 'right' way to use HFR. Hobbit was a misfire, fantasy costumes and sets just... look fake and wrong, the cinematic illusion kind of collapses. Yet, you check out the gorgeous landscape porn shots littered about in the trilogy? Stunning.

Recently I stumbled upon a couple films, primarily available in the Chinese market (some of these have been hard to get English subtitles for) that bizarrely are HFR.

This for example.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt21146674/

The effects low key, look like a video game cutscene at times, but, the live action stuff, shot at 60fps? Not bad. I'm kind of digging it.

Anyways, there's 100% a future for HFR cinematography, I was pretty against it for a long time but I've come around. There's a way to do it that enhances the reality for the viewer, it's just going to take time to figure out what works and doesn't.

Go find some HFR films. If you need demo material, hit up video stock footage libraries. You can get *really* high quality 4K 60 and 120fps content (like even stuff without chroma subsampling)

[tkolsto]

Yes I Am sensitive to it, thus back in the day I was not in any doubt that I wanted a plasma. But the lcd was not this bad as it is now...no where near this bad. the choppines, shimmering, shivering was not so obvious. So something has definetly changed.

Plasma was easy on the eyes. I would not bought the b1 if I knew the implications. I would buy a used panasonic and kept the 1080p movies.

So all I can wait for is better interpolation or that has probably peaked and will not get any better than a sony, which I have not seen yet.

Or there might be some kind of interference on my system, since I have experienced some in the moment great rendering..things where smoother and more effortless in how the movie was rendered.

HFR movies is probably far in the future.

I Am not impressed at all of the TV industry... I Am sure there are solutions...but they are going to monitize on motion when time comes over meny models..a little better each year.

When You use 5:5 pulldown together with bfi...how is it when bfi is turned off...then there are stutter rigth?

[eve]

When You use 5:5 pulldown together with bfi...how is it when bfi is turned off...then there are stutter rigth?

I go back and forth on the BFI thing, it does impact the brightness a decent amount, the 5:5 pulldown is indispensable though (hello nice OSD and GUI navigation without constantly switching refresh rates, the 119-120hz 'container' works like a charm.). I do not have stutter beyond what 24fps looks like naturally.
I'm seriously wondering if something in your system (software or hardware, not the display) is causing an issue.
I think we've been over this before but you've tried fully reinstalling windows right? As in, format the drive, install fresh. You install your video driver, and JRiver, nothing else whatsoever.

[tkolsto]

I was a bit too negative yesterday and borred to death. Oled is not that bad. But yes something got to be it, because why Am I not able to do decent 5:5 pulldown. also I got decent rendering with jrvr and interpolation set to normal or dejudder at 6 or 7 and no bfi. But I think there is something interfearing so that also the use of interpolation would also be better. I have experienced this on rear occations.

But I should get to do 5:5 pulldown without any major stutter without ticking exclusive mode? exclusive mode should not be necessary, but you want it on to be sure there are nothing interfearing when fps is presented onto the display/tv ? Like in your system you dont need this right, the exclusive mode?

so madvr mode, lock in 120 and 119 hz, smoothing off in general setting and tonemapping off and bfi on low or medium and all other interpolation off. thats it and tick of exclusive mode to be sure. when I tick off exclusive mode in general setting in madvr adv. setting I tick off the box Direct3D 11 and only exclusive mode should be ticked?

[tkolsto]

tried it again only with exclusive mode ticked, direct3d 11 mode off. I get washed out colors and this rapid black blink. and the brightness is also lower, lower than bfi on..like dimmed a lot down. and this black blink looks like a rapid double blink. one does not see the whole screen go black so it is rapid/fast. and it is a double blink. My guess and what it looks like is that something is intefearing between the display and jriver/gpu.

I dont think there is much more one can do here. just like you said. os reinstall has been done several times and last time I used killdisk program in my other pc which I connected the c drive(regular ssd disk) and formatted it. but no luck at all.

My system could be comprimised.

[eve]

Your audio / display mode on the TV changed because occasionally, when a display device disappears then reappears, that's what can happen, Windows can automatically elect to switch the default audio device, and on your TV, whichever display format the driver outputted, happens to be one that automatically triggers a game mode.

I think you're being a little paranoid.

You still don't indicate if when you completely wipe, and reinstall windows, you install ANYTHING else before testing.

[tkolsto]

i deteted all of it what I just wrote. ok it can happened like you write.

now in february this year i formatted my ssd c drive by putting it in my other pc and formatted it using killdisk I also did that with all my other disk on my tv desktop (so i had to move a lot of movie files to do it 6 harddrives. I installed windows updates and a few mainboard drivers (inf driver, intel managment engine driver and lan driver and realtek audiodriver it think. I dont think more than that). and and then iobit driverbooster and updated what that suggested but skipped displaydriver as i install that myself, I used ddu procedure).

then I tried jriver. maybe I have to try one more time. are there something safer better than killdisk?

[eve]

i deteted all of it what I just wrote. ok it can happened like you write.

now in february this year i formatted my ssd c drive by putting it in my other pc and formatted it using killdisk I also did that with all my other disk on my tv desktop (so i had to move a lot of movie files to do it 6 harddrives. I installed windows updates and a few mainboard drivers (inf driver, intel managment engine driver and lan driver and realtek audiodriver it think. I dont think more than that). and and then iobit driverbooster and updated what that suggested but skipped displaydriver as i install that myself, I used ddu procedure).

then I tried jriver. maybe I have to try one more time. are there something safer better than killdisk?

Why are you installing "Driverbooster"? I don't even need to google this to know that you don't need it and it can only cause problems.

[tkolsto]

ok. uninstalled Driverbooster.

[tkolsto]

eve , I Am erasing my c drive one more time. What would be best windows 10 or 11? maybe 10 is the safest choice.

[JimH]

Either is fine.

We've used Windows 11 for development since it was first available.

[tkolsto]

went for windows 10 pro...same same in terms of 5:5 pulldown...washed out colors and black blinking...also very dim...should direct3d 11 also be ticked together with exclusive in madvr advanced setting?

[tkolsto]

I think this washed out color and black blinking is hardware limitations, it is the most likely explanation. C1 like eve has could have better hardware that does not cause this.

[tkolsto]

I now installed windows 11 pro a few days ago on this desktop and installed latest jriver 31 version ..36 and did not installed latest nvidia driver just let it stay on the nvidia driver windows update chose to install. I did nothing in jriver other than set displaysettings to auto change mode and tried 1080 p jurassic world and it was way better suddenly and that in 59 hz too. Now I can actually watch a movie on my "office" pc again. So my memory was correct. this was way better some years ago when I played a few movies. I rarely use this pc to watch movies..so i was unsure if I rememebered correctly. I was right! What a pleasent experience.