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[Matt]

Description

We have written a new EXIF library from the ground up.  It can read and write.  Previous versions of MC could write the EXIF dates in some cases, but only if the file already had the date.  The new library can write to any JPEG image and write any field.

This change is not available yet, but will be in the next few builds.

We also improved IPTC support and added some fields (like City, State/Province).

Instructions

Import any images.  Use "Update Library From Tags" on existing images to use the new EXIF reading.  Tag files and the new EXIF library will write.

[Matt]

Our goal is to improve all the image handling inside Media Center.  We're open to other suggestions you may have (once we're done with the EXIF work).  So please feel free to make other suggestions.  Thanks.

[Matt]

Split the wiki discussion:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136364.0.html

[darichman]

I've been away for regional outreach but very excited to try this out

Our goal is to improve all the image handling inside Media Center.  We're open to other suggestions you may have (once we're done with the EXIF work).  So please feel free to make other suggestions.  Thanks.

I will have a few. Thank you for your work on this!

[marko]

I'll hopefully have some time to stress the EXIF writing at the weekend. It's no small thing, I know, and it's fully appreciated here.

[darichman]

Downloaded! I'll also do some tests Will recreate the steps in my opening post.

Question: will an 'update tags from library' create EXIFs for all selected files. Do you foresee this to be a safe undertaking, before I pull the trigger? I will do on a sample of files first

Thanks Matt and Jim!

[Matt]

Update Tags From Library should add EXIF if it's not found.  Doing some samples first is smart.  Thanks for the help.

[markf2748]

I understand that tags in image files are read by MC and show up in the left (Tree) panel Tag Dump section, grouped under XMP, IPTC, MJMD and a few at the top are ungrouped.  I would like to try MC image management on large collection of photos (unrelated to music), but have some basic questions (quick first impressions):

1) I don't see EXIF listed as a separate section in MC Tag > Tag Dump.  Is that because my image has no EXIF, or is EXIF combined with IPTC?

UPDATE:  I created a new Image library which imports only images and successfully imported several image folders which show up nicely in MC.  Then I determined with the program XnView MP Image > Properties that one of the *.jpg image files has a ton of populated EXIF fields.  However MC shows only 10 fields at the top of the Tag Dump output (unlabeled section) which pretty much correspond to the EXIF tags listed in MC's Wiki page on Photo Editing:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Photo_Tagging
The vast majority of EXIF tags in the file do not show up in MC Tag > Tag Dump at all, even after Library Tools > Update Library (from tags) followed by a Refresh of the Tag Window.

2) Can I create MC tag window inputs for new EXIF / IPTC tag values like I do for MJMD, in order to have them written into the image file as those types?  Or am I limited to the tags read from the file at this time?

3) If I look in Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields > Show only image fields I see a long list of fields, but I can't tell from the list which group (XMP, IPTC, MJMD, ...) they fall under.  Are they mainly/only MJMD (I do see the new City and State/Province, but they look like any other field)?

4) Are there automatic mappings from MJMD to the other types (some IPTC mappings are described in the wiki article)?  If so, a table of those mappings would be very helpful.

Thanks.

Win 11 Pro 64-bit  MC 31.0.29

[JimH]

From the first post:
Matt said, "Import any images.  Use "Update Library From Tags" on existing images to use the new EXIF reading.  Tag files and the new EXIF library will write."

[marko]

I'll wait for darichman's feedback...

For me, it's either flat-out not working, or I'm doing something wrong.

First attempt...
I copied some files that already existed in my library and let MC import them. The data correctly populated, as expected.
I then used XnView MP to remove all tag data, including the MJMD tags from one file.
Back in MC, I did "Update tags from library", which MC advised was successful.
In the file... nothing, nada, zilch?

I picked a different file and this time, did nothing externally. This file has an existing EXIF block that contains only "Date/Time Original" and "Date/Time Digitised" (both have the same value.)
I changed the date in MC by moving the time ahead a couple of minutes via edit in the tag window. This change is not written to the file either, where previously, MC was correctly updating the EXIF info. I also tried with the "Adjust date/time" library tool with the same negative result.

Finally, I tried with a jpg that has no tags written at all, that MC had never seen before and still, no EXIF data is created by MC when the tags (date) is altered.

 

[Yaobing]

Confirmed that it does not work and I have some ideas why.  We will be working on it after the Fourth of July holiday.

The only thing that will work now is if you do not remove any existing tags, and try to change the Date field.  That will get saved correctly.  Changes in all other fields are ignored at this point.

Sorry for the false start.

[darichman]

I think Marko you beat me to it. But I have noticed some positive observations since before the changes (at least regarding brand new files, newly imported) which aligns with what Yaobing mentioned. I will troubleshoot for already-imported files with existing tags soon.

Just scanned an image, default file metadata below (without ever having imported into MC & no tagging in other programs):

• Windows properties: Date taken 30/06/2023 8:14pm, Date modified 30/06/2023 8:19pm (reflect the date the file was scanned)
• Google photos: 30/06/2023 8:14pm
• Lightroom: Capture date 30/06/2023 8:14pm, Date created (empty)

Imported image into MC:
[Date]              = 30/06/2023 8:19pm
[Date modified] = 30/06/2023 8:19pm
[Date created]   = 3/07/2023 2:03pm (appears to be the date stamp for when I copied this image into a folder in windows)

Copied the original file, Tagged in MC:
[Date] = 3/1/1960 1:23pm
[Keywords] = MC keyword
[Caption] = MC caption
[Artist] = darichman

Loaded this new file in other programs (my 'expected' tag outcomes in green):
Windows file properties:
Date taken 3/01/1960 1:23pm
[Date modified] = 3/07/2023 2:07pm (the time I 'tagged' the file in MC)
[Date created]   = 3/07/2023 2:03pm

Google photos: Date = 03/01/1960 (time not read)
  Keywords not read (not sure this is MC's problem)
  MC caption loaded into 'Other'

Lightoom: Capture date 3/1/1960 1:23pm, Date created 3/1/1960, Date 30/06/2023 8:19pm
   Keywords = MC keyword, Caption = MC caption
   Artist does not seem to be mapped to any author/photographer fields

Have not played around with [People] and faces again, but will do so.

[EnglishTiger]

Matt /Yaobing - you may want to take a look at this thread - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136487.0.html 

It looks like an invalid image size (3456 x 976357632) in the EXIF Data is causing MC31.0.29 and higher to crash out

[JimH]

Matt /Yaobing - you may want to take a look at this thread - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136487.0.html 

It looks like an invalid image size (3456 x 976357632) in the EXIF Data is causing MC31.0.29 and higher to crash out

Thanks for your help.

[darichman]

I know this might be one or two steps away, but this is the most comprehensive writeup of Google Photos tag compatibility I've seen.

[Matt]

The latest build should has pretty strong EXIF support now.

[darichman]

Thank you so much for this - apologies for delay in testing - it's still on my radar!!
Work / family (just about everything) has been hectic

[RockyMalerbo]

Could someone please spell out EXIF? I have no idea what you are talking about. What is IPTC? Thank you.

[Daydream]

Could someone please spell out EXIF? I have no idea what you are talking about. What is IPTC? Thank you.

This may not be the perfect thread to explain it but on short, they are both photo metadata standards. EXIF contains the technical metadata about a photo (date taken, camera model, ISO, aperture, focal length, pixel dimensions, date and time when taken, GPS coord, etc), while IPTC contains descriptive metadata about the photos (who took it, at what event, short description of what's going on in the photo, who owns the copyright to it and so on).  Usually the EXIF data is stamped on the file by the camera at the moment the photo is taken while IPTC is done by the user after the fact, manually, or using automatic templates, etc.

There is a bit of perceived overlap. For example the copyright information can be set in the camera (i.e. "© what's-my-name") and the camera will stamp it as EXIF on every file. The equivalent in IPTC is much more extensive (Author/Source/Caption describing what agency to contact/what markets are under embargo/Premium rates or not, etc)

To bring it about to what I care more - appreciate the work on EXIF as its important that the technical data is imported correctly in MC. I hope at some point the focus turns to IPTC too.

[Matt]

I hope at some point the focus turns to IPTC too.

Hi Daydream.  Would you be willing to start a thread with your IPTC suggestions?  Thanks.

[Pogle]

Interested in this but don't quite understand what's new. Using MC27 more and more as main photo archive with a range of tags filtered by a library view that works really well. Writing the date isn't an issue as it's in most photos from the start.

One thing I'd like to make more use of is the Resize function. Near full partition with 1,000s of images with much higher resolution than necessary. But when batch resizing I need it to keep the original Taken Date, not update with current date.

Also, the ability to maintain aspect ratio while entering only one dimension. I shouldn't have to calculate the other dimension.

Finally, to be able to specify the size entered as the 'longer' or the 'shorter' dimension so you can resize both landscape and portrait in the same batch to the same overall size. eg, enter longer side=1600 to get either 1600x1200 or 1200x1600.

[darichman]

Interested in this but don't quite understand what's new. Using MC27 more and more as main photo archive with a range of tags filtered by a library view that works really well. Writing the date isn't an issue as it's in most photos from the start.

One thing I'd like to make more use of is the Resize function. Near full partition with 1,000s of images with much higher resolution than necessary. But when batch resizing I need it to keep the original Taken Date, not update with current date.

Also, the ability to maintain aspect ratio while entering only one dimension. I shouldn't have to calculate the other dimension.

Finally, to be able to specify the size entered as the 'longer' or the 'shorter' dimension so you can resize both landscape and portrait in the same batch to the same overall size. eg, enter longer side=1600 to get either 1600x1200 or 1200x1600.

Hi Pogle - thanks for your suggestions but perhaps best these could be suggested in a new thread? You may not see the value of the recent EXIF changes but they are important for some of us!! If you read my initial postings on this there are lots of situations where the date is not 'in most photos from the start' - scanned photos, downloaded photos, date set wrong on camera etc.

I have done some testing and will detail a separate post.

[darichman]

Hi Matt & team. Thank you for your work on this. I have spent some time importing and tagging images from varying sources. Sorry for delay - there was a time when I could spend all day lost in my media collection. Those days are few and far between now!

Steps taken
3 test files created:
Scanned a new image (no EXIF data)
Downloaded an image from Facebook (no EXIF data)
Copied an existing imported file from MC (existing EXIF data)

Tagged files in MC
arbitrarily tagged the [Date] as 6/1/1984 (Jan 6th 1984)
tagged as many MC native fields I can think of [Artist] = 'MC artist', [Album] = 'MC album', [Caption] = 'MC caption'... similar for [Keywords], [Comment], [People], [Country], [City], [State/Province]
right clicked each file in windows and checked 'file properties' tag displays
imported into lightroom and checked tag entries
imported into google photos and checked tag entries
two of the tagged files uploaded here for reference

Results
Windows file properties
[Date] maps to 'Date taken'
[Name] maps to 'Title' and 'Subject'
[Keywords] maps to 'Tags'
'Comments' is empty
[Artist] maps to 'Authors'
no other fields visible/displayed

Lightroom
[Date] maps to 'Capture date' & 'Date created' and 'Date' for the downloaded photo without prev existing EXIF data
[Date] maps to 'Capture date/time' but not mapping to 'Date/time' for the scanned photo and camera photo with existing EXIF data- displays correct day but not year: ie 6/1/2023 for one of them and 1/8/2023 for the other, both incorrect
[Name] not read anywhere - could map to 'Title'
[Keywords] maps correctly
[Caption] maps correctly
[Artist] maps to iptc 'Creator'
[Country] maps to iptc 'Country/region'
[State/Province' maps to iptc 'State'
[City] maps to iptc 'City'
[Person] does not map to iptc 'Person shown' or to generic 'Keyword'

Google Photos
Per usual not a lot gets imported/exposed in Google photos
[Date] not mapping correctly for any of the files! The camera photo shows 6/1/2023 (correct day, wrong year), web photo showing 1/8/2023 and scanned photo showing 23/7/2023. So inconsistent results for dates but files all tagged in same way in MC
[Caption] is displayed in 'Other' but no other MC-tagged-fields visible

Summary: things are a lot better and many fields are now cross-compatible, but still some wonkiness with Dates per above. Any ideas?

[Matt]

I just tagged the date on a test image.

1/1/2000 11:05 am

Then I uploaded to Google Photos.

The first line under "Details" is the date:

Code: [Select]

Jan 1, 2000
Sat, 11:05 AM
GMT-10:00

So that seems to be working nicely for me.

[darichman]

Weird! I will do some more testing

[Yaobing]

As far as EXIF is concerned, we are currently on EXIF 2.2.  The number of text tags are very limited in EXIF.  Most text tags are ASCII text only.

[Name] -> EXIF's "Image Description", but if [Name] is not ASCII, we put it in "User Comment"
[Artist] -> "Artist"
[Copyright] -> "Copyright"
[Comment] -> "UserComment".  This is the only text tag that allows non-ASCII characters.

These are about the only text tags that we can do with EXIF 2.2.  I will soon start adding support for EXIF 3.0, which allows a number of more tags, and all text tags can be unicode.

[Date] -> EXIF's "DateTimeOriginal", i.e. the date and time the image is taken, as recorded by a camera.  This is about the only "Camera tag" that we attempt to edit/set.  Not sure why it is not working with Google photos for you. 

[Yaobing]

Maybe different apps have different interpretations of "DateTime".  EXIF has three date time tags:

DateTimeOriginal, that is what we map to our [Date] field.  This is the date time the picture was taken.

DateTime, we are not mapping  to anything.  It corresponds to date time the image file is last edited.  In MC we have "Date modified", but that field is not sent to tagging, maybe it just reflects the date time the file was changed (the OS tells you when the file was changed).

DateTimeDigitized,  we have no corresponding field for this. 

You can create a custom field "DateTimeDigitized", and see what value you get.  Similarly, you can create a custom field "DateTime".  Try editing these custom fields and see if other apps pick them up.

[darichman]

Thanks Yaobing

I have just done with three separate files:

• photo from my phone with existing tags from phone camera
• photo from scanner without EXIF
• photo downloaded from facebook without EXIF

I tagged them all with [Date] 1/2/1973 (1st Feb 1973)
Added a custom field [DateTime], set to save to tag, and tagged them all 6/4/1980
In MC, [Date modified] reads 4/8/2023 1:58pm

Google photos shows different dates for all of them. See attached
I am not sure what is going on - have emailed you both test files (initial untagged and then the ones after tagging in MC)
Let me know what you think

[Yaobing]

Regarding Google Photos, I believe it tries to get the date from one of the following:

1. EXIF DateTimeDigitized - your camera.jpg image contains this tag, and it is used. EXIF GPS Date tag (This is so silly.  They choose to use this one instead of DateTimeOriginal or DateTimeDigitized, or DateTime!) EXIF DateTimeOriginal (see my new post below)

2. From non-EXIF data:  <stEvt:when>2023-07-31T08:23:50+10:00</stEvt:when> or <xap:CreateDate>2023-07-31T08:23:50+10:00</xap:CreateDate>.  Scan.jpg file contains both of these and Google must have picked from one of them.

3. From OS's Date Modified (I guess).  Your Facebook file does not have either of the above two, and the date Google shows is just the file modified date.



Regarding DateTime custom field, strangely, I can not tag it but I thought I was able to (I could be mistaken).  The value in the custom field was not sent to EXIF code for some reason. More strangely, your files (the "Tagged in MC" set) all contain this tag, with value "1900:01:05".  This is not the value you said you tried to tag it.  Did you try tagging these files using another App?

[darichman]

Regarding DateTime custom field, strangely, I can not tag it but I thought I was able to (I could be mistaken).  The value in the custom field was kust not sent to EXIF code for some reason.  More strangely, your files (the "Tagged in MC" set) all contain this tag, with value "1900:01:05".  This is not the value you said you tried to tag it.  Did you try tagging these files using another App?

Weirdness... No, the only program used for any of the files was MC. I imported them, tagged as per the screenshot, closed MC and then uploaded them to google photos. Did not import into lightroom at all.

The phone image was taken straight off the phone (copied using windows copy and paste).
The FB image downloaded off facebook.
The scanned image scanned using the proprietary Epson scanner software

I guess it's a tricky balance as every software interprets the tags differently From a simplistic user perspective, all I really want is the [Date] tag in MC to be set/used as the main 'Date' fields in relevant software the files may be exported to (namely Lightroom and Google Photos for me). Does IPTC have a date field?

[Daydream]

Does IPTC have a date field?

Yes, it has DateCreated. As far as I can tell it's mostly decoded as yyyy-mm-dd. Its definition is a bit nauseating.

I'm joining in here for a second, from a slightly different angle. I'm trying RAW files (Canon CR2). 2 things: the size reported ([Dimensions] field) is the (I guess) embeded preview (something like 592x395). At no point in time the real size is reported, regardless of RAW decoding settings in MC or anything else I can think of. A Lightroom processed pano in DNG format does show real dimensions.
Regarding the date, changing the date in MC ([Date] field) for a RAW file triggers no real changes. An Update Tags from Library results in outright failure.

[Yaobing]

We do try to save date to IPTC too.  I am not sure if there  is something not handled correctly and we need to investigate more about it.  It appears that nothing is written when the image originally does not have IPTC in it (like the facebook sample image).

Regarding Google Photos, I edited my previous post.  They choose to use a more obscure tag (GPS Date).  That is so silly 

I also figured out why I was not able to save DateTime and DateTimeDigitized.  I forgot to check the checkbox "Save in file tags (when possible)" when I created these custom fields.  Once the checkbox is checked, the tags are saved correctly.  Too bad that still does not help with the Google Photos situation.

[darichman]

We do try to save date to IPTC too.  I am not sure if there  is something not handled correctly and we need to investigate more about it.  It appears that nothing is written when the image originally does not have IPTC in it (like the facebook sample image).

I think this is one of the important variables between the 3 files...
Does existing EXIF tag exist (yes/no)
Does existing IPTC tag exist (yes/no)
The best outcome is that it doesn't matter if the tag exists - MC will create it if needed and write to the relevant fields, or update relevant fields if tags pre-exist.
Would you consider building an IPTC tag if does not already exist?

Regarding Google Photos, I edited my previous post.  They choose to use a more obscure tag (GPS Date).  That is so silly 

That is indeed incredibly silly... would you foresee any ill effect in writing to this field?

Thanks again. I think we are making good progress!

I have not even ventured into RAW files yet (I do not have a lot, but these will be on the agenda at some point!)
Also heic files... I have no idea what the tagging standards for these are.
Once jpeg/jpg & EXIF sorted, can figure out some sort of plan for .bmp .gif .heioc .nef .orf .png .psd .tif and .tiff files in my library

[Yaobing]

After doing a lot of testing I ended up coming to a full circle.  I now conclude that it is working fine!

I don't know what happened with your tests.  The first thing I did was to take a photo that already contains all datetime EXIF tags, and use a hex editor to change each datetime tag to a distinct value.  Google Photos picked up the most logical one - DateTimeOriginal, which corresponds to MC's Date field when we write tags.

Next I took all three of your untagged images, and tagged them all in MC, using distinct dates for each tag.  Uploaded the resulting images to Google Photos.  They all are displayed correctly.  See screenshots below.

MC also does save IPTC tags (some of them anyway, including Date), in all three images (including the facebook one that originally does not contain any tags).  I even used the hex editor to change the dates so that the EXIF dates and IPTC date are different.  Google Photos picked up the EXIF DateTimeOriginal, since ot exists, instead of IPTC.  So from the point of view of making sure Google Photos pick up the date tagged by MC, tagging the EXIF DateTimeOriginal is sufficient.

[Yaobing]

I don't know what happened with your test set.  Please you test again when a new version of MC comes out.

[darichman]

Very strange - I did this twice. Last time I had weird date errors it was due to US vs. International (dd/mm/yyyy) format, the latter being OS default for me. Any possibility this is throwing off MC's tagging? I will try again this weekend

[Yaobing]

The datetime format should not be an issue.  In your screenshot, the "Date" field in MC was "1/2/1973", which is "the 1st of Feb. 1973".  In the tag inside the image file, it is "1973:02:01   :  :  ", and in MC on my computer it is displayed as "2/1/1973" (US format).

[Yaobing]

OMG!

I can finally reproduce!  It appears that Google Photos does not like datetime without time.

So, if I tag Date as "2/1/1973", the corresponding EXIF tag is written as "1973:02:01   :  :  ".  Google does not like it.  If I tag it "2/1/1973 11:20 am", the EXIF tag is "1973:02:01 11:20:00", and Google will get it.

[Yaobing]

This will be the fix for an upcoming new build (build 44):

Changed: Tagging of EXIF datetime tags will use format "yyyy:MM:dd 00:00:00" for dates without time, instead of "yyyy:MM:dd   :  :  " so that Google Photos will recognize it.

[darichman]

So good! Have just tried with 3 equivalent example files, and can confirm this works in Google Photos now...

Google photos reads the following tags written from MC

• [Date]
• [Camera]
• [Caption] (to 'other' field)

Google photos does not, to my knowledge, read any other tags so this is the best compatibility we can hope for currently unless Google expands its metadata options.

I did a similar test in lightroom. Most of the fields are showing as expected, but a bit of weirdness with how the date tags are viewed.
This time I used 4 test files: a phone photo that had already prev tagged in MC (before the exif changes) and now retagged in current version, and three photos newly imported and tagged in MC using the newest (.44) version (a facebook photo, a scanned photo and a new phone camera photo not previously imported into MC).
My test date was 6th Jan 1984 (entered in MC under [Date] as 6/1/1984). This was the only date field I adjusted

• The 6/1/1984 [Date] was displayed under [Capture Date] for all files in lightroom
• Lightroom displayed [Date] inconsistently (6/1/1984 for the facebook photo, 12/8/2023 for the scanned photo, 15/6/2023 for the phone photo just now imported & tagged in MC, and 18/6/2023 for the phone photo that had previously been tagged in MC.
• [Artist] displayed correctly under Creator and Artist for all files
• Country, State, City all show correctly
• [Caption] and [Keywords] display correctly
• [Camera] handled a bit oddly - was tagged as 'MC Camera' in MC, but displays as 'Google MC' for the phone photos (was taken on a Google pixel) and just 'MC' for the others. Not critical as rarely update this field
• Could consider mapping [Name] to 'Title' and [Comment] to 'Headline'? Not sure if there are standard uses for these fields

I think it's all coming together - great work figuring out the Google photos issue.

[Yaobing]

The 6/1/1984 [Date] was displayed under [Capture Date] for all files in lightroom

This corresponds to DateTimeOriginal in EXIF.  It is the date the image was created/taken/captured.

Lightroom displayed [Date] inconsistently (6/1/1984 for the facebook photo, 12/8/2023 for the scanned photo, 15/6/2023 for the phone photo just now imported & tagged in MC, and 18/6/2023 for the phone photo that had previously been tagged in MC.

Do you know what date time Lightroom uses for this?  For example, is it DateTime, or DateTimeDigitized?

[Camera] handled a bit oddly - was tagged as 'MC Camera' in MC, but displays as 'Google MC' for the phone photos (was taken on a Google pixel) and just 'MC' for the others. Not critical as rarely update this field

Yes, I expected this to happen.  We did not anticipate this to be a taggable field, so we join two EXIF tags together, Make and Model, for Camera field.  When doing it in reverse we are not really able to split a string into Make and Model and save them separately.  So [Camera] just gets saved to Model tag, and the original Make tag remained (Google).  These tags truly should only be set by the original device that creates the image (camera or scanner) and not by an application.

Could consider mapping [Name] to 'Title' and [Comment] to 'Headline'? Not sure if there are standard uses for these fields

[Name] will be mapped to "ImageTitle", which is a new tag in EXIF 3.0.  I don't see a "Headline" tag in EXIF spec.  and we do currently map [Comment] to UserComment tag in EXIF.

[darichman]

This is working pretty great - it's so nice seeing (most) of these fields come up in lightroom now.

I found the following info re tagging Date metadata in lightroom

Code: [Select]

Change the photo capture time
Sometimes you need to change the capture time for your photos. For example, you might need to change the capture times if you traveled to a different time zone and didn’t change your camera’s date/time setting before you started photographing, or if you imported a scanned photo into Lightroom Classic, the photo would contain the creation date of when it was scanned, rather than when it was taken.

In order to save an edited capture time to a raw photo, you must enable the option in the Catalog Settings dialog box. See Customize catalog settings.

Changing the capture time changes the Date Time Original EXIF metadata in the Metadata panel. [b]For most cameras, Date Time Original and Date Time Digitized are the same, so Date Time Digitized changes, too. The Date Time metadata indicates the last time the photo was updated and is not affected when you change the capture time[/b].
So I think that answers your question and explains why MC's [Date] does not simply map to lightroom's vanilla 'Date'. I have tested further and ventured further into LR's handling of EXIF and IPTC. It seems lightroom also has XMP files (I think you have done some work reading these for [People] previously).

[darichman]

I have done some playing around with metadata views in Lightroom, and tagging various fields in MC to see how they are mapped. It's looking pretty great. All below done on v *.44

A few things:

• Lightroom has a 'Default' metadata view that displays a mix of its own XMP fields, IPTC and EXIF fields (see pic). To maximise compatibility for the most common use cases, it might make sense to prioritise mapping of these fields? Eg MC not currently using 'Title', 'Rating', 'Label', 'Headline'
• You can show a more comprehensive views of IPTC and EXIF fields (also images attached with displayed values after tagging in MC)

I tagged four test files from different sources in MC, some with existing EXIF/IPTC and some with neither (yellow highlighted fields are custom fields in the 'MC Fields' pic attached, all set to save tags to files)

Lightroom fields in default view that don't appear to be mapped to IPTC or EXIF (therefore probably XMP):
Rating: Not currently mapped to any MC field. Proposal - map to MC field [Rating]
Label: Not currently mapped to any MC field. Proposal - new MC field [Label] or similar
Title: Not currently mapped to any MC field. Would be great if this was mapped from [Name]
People: Mapped to [People] (some inconsistencies if Keywords also tagged)
Keywords: Mapped to [Keywords]

EXIF fields as viewable in Lightroom
'Make' and 'Model' combined in MC into [Camera] as you have indicated
'Date Time Original' mapped from MC [Date]
'Date Time Digitized' and 'Date Time' not editable in default MC fields (but user can create these fields in MC if wanted)
'User Comment' mapped from MC [Comment]
'Artist' mapped from MC [Artist]

IPTC fields as viewable in Lightroom
'Creator' mapped from MC [Artist]
'Description' mapped from MC [Caption]
'Headline' not currently mapped from MC field
'Category' from MC's [Genre]
'Date Created' from MC [Date]
'Sublocation' not currently mapped from MC field
'City' mapped from MC [City]
'State' mapped from MC [State/Province]
'Country / Region' mapped from MC [Country]
'Credit line' mapped from MC [Note]
'Source' not currently mapped from MC field

To list things in the other direction, MC's fields and how they are mapped in lightroom:

• [Name] I am not seeing this in any of the EXIF or IPTC fields in Lightroom. You mentioned is mapped to Image Description (or to User Comment if not ASCII), but perhaps Image Description not used in Lightroom. If [Comment] is filled in MC, does this trump use of [Name] anywhere potentially?
• [Album] not visible anywhere
• [Date] mapped to 'Date Time Original' and working as expected
• [Artist] mapped to EXIF 'Artist' and IPTC 'Creator'
• [Caption] mapping to IPTC 'Description'
• • [Keywords] mapping to 'Keywords' - similarly not sure if these are in EXIF or IPTC, appear in separate view and not nested in EXIF/IPTC in metadata window
• [Note] mapped to IPTC 'Credit Line'
• [Comment] mapped to EXIF 'User Comment'
• [People] I recall is mapped to XMP keywords in some creative way - MC reads these, but if written from MC does not appear in lightroom under keywords (in this case MC already writing [Keywords] to LR 'Keywords'
• [Country], [State], [City] all mapped to appropriate IPTC location fields ('Sublocation' is only missing field here)
• [Genre] mapped to IPTC 'Category'

Based on above, some requests/suggestions to finetune compatibility with Adobe software:

• Could [Album] be mapped to IPTC 'scene'
• You mentioned a new 'ImageTitle' EXIF field coming with EXIF 3.0 - is this version waiting MC incorporation or has it yet to be released? Failing this could we possibly get MC to write [Name] to XMP 'Title' and IPTC 'Headline', as will avoid conflict with 'User Comment' if [Comment] also written (I use [Comment] for purpose distinct from Name). The documented use of IPTC 'Headline' is "a brief synopsis or summary of the contents of the image". I am not sure if the same ASCII limitations would apply to these fields?
• Could we please add a [Sublocation] to map to IPTC 'Sublocation', completing the locations fields (used for a venue etc, for example the name of a restaurant or theme park, as a 'subplace' within the suburb)
• Could MC's rating be mapped to LR's 'Rating'?
• Can we create a field [Source] and map to IPTC 'Source'. I already have a custom field for this purpose, called [Source] (mine is a list field) - ie where the image was obtained
• Can we create a field [Label] (or Photo Label if this is too vague) and map to Adobe XML 'Label' - these are user customisable labels in Lightroom, which correspond to colours that can be toggled in views. Lightroom will recognise 4 values, with anything else coming under 'White'. Tagging documented here.
• Regarding your comments about the [Camera] field - there are some instances where would make sense this is editable - my scanner does not write this field, but I use MC to tag 'Epson WF7720' for example'. Would you consider exposing 'Make' and 'Model' as editable fields (?[Camera Make], [Camera Model]) and then having [Camera] set as an uneditable calculated field from those two fields?
• There are two IPTC Category fields (Category and Other Categories). Currently, [Genre] is mapped to 'Category'. Would we consider creating [Category] to map to 'Category', and potentially map [Genre] to 'Other Categories' as this seems a better fit

My next step will be tagging these fields in Lightroom and seeing if changes go back the other way!
Not sure if Daydream, Marko & others have thoughts on applications, use case of these fields.

Thank you for the photo attention

[JimH]

darichman,
Thanks very much for your thorough testing and for the detailed analysis and suggestions.  It's very valuable.

And to Yaobing, for his patient pursuit of a better solution.

Jim

[marko]

darichman,
Thanks very much for your thorough testing and for the detailed analysis and suggestions.  It's very valuable.

And to Yaobing, for his patient pursuit of a better solution.

Jim

Yes. Exactly this. I've been itching to get involved, but simply have zero free time atm (wife's had two total knee replacements in five months, second was done a week ago). I have been following closely though...

[marko]

Regarding MC's "File Tags" panel in the tag window...

It should show all the tags currently written in the selected file.

It is not showing the EXIF tags correctly. As far as I can tell, it is only showing the camera make/model info, and sometimes, not even that.

and...
why, why, oh why, does the MC date field not display the "seconds" data? only hours and minutes are displayed. If you then edit the date in tag window, say, by moving the one minute back or forwards, when MC saves that, it discards the seconds, writing them as "00". Please can this be addressed. It's bugged me for a very long time

-marko

[darichman]

Jim, Marko - no need for thanks as I am a direct beneficiary of this stuff being implemented!
If we can get to the point where all or most these fields are incorporated, then I have a stage 2 list, so don't thank me yet

• pull country, state, suburb from GPS coordinates (I think there are some APIs that do this). Lightroom does this, see attached image - if italicised they are suggested based on GPS data & user can click to tag them. An ideal implementation in MC would be 'Tag places from GPS coordinates' (?prompt if will overwrite existing values)
• bonus implementation: add GPS coordinates manually from map (see LR implementation)
• troubleshoot facetagging / [People] handling between MC & llightroom
• look into tagging of raw files, heic files, and consider intersoftware sidecar compatibility of other image files (bmp, tif, png etc)
• kind of related to images, but sort out some date handling strangeness of video files from phone and camera. See bottom paragraph of this post

[rblnr]

Probably not in the MC wheelhouse, but any chance of adding facial recognition?

[Yaobing]

Probably not in the MC wheelhouse, but any chance of adding facial recognition?

This thread is about metadata tagging.  So, to the minimum, this thread is the wrong place to ask this question.

[darichman]

Probably not in the MC wheelhouse, but any chance of adding facial recognition?

That would be a wonderful addition. I am not certain how big a thing this would be to develop though... Lightroom and Google Photos still don't get it completely right and they have a lot more resourcing to back it.

If we can get the basics of metadata support and interoperability with the main other image/photo contenders then some extra functionality like map view and facetagging would be an aspirational addition. Baby steps